St1300 Failed Thermostat [Archive] - ST-Owners.com Forums

tccox

05-16-2006, 05:06 AM

Was wondering how many ST1300 owners have experienced the dreaded thermostat failure ??? Mines taking about 16 - 17 miles now to get to three bars in 40 deg F weather. Gets to one bar real quick, stays at 2 bars for about 15 miles then finally three after 16 or so miles. Since we're getting into warm weather season (and works fine then) I'm not going to worry about it for now but seems to be a pretty common failure on our STs.

Edited by mellow:
Okay, I changed this so that you ONLY vote if you had a failure... We already know it's a pretty small percentage and anyone that votes NO now won't be able to come back to this and vote again as the polls don't allow that.

So IF you did have a failure, check what mileage it was at.

Good Poll!

Burger

05-16-2006, 05:19 AM

Not had a stuck thermostat but then I haven't covered enough miles either I shouldn't think :)

I added the poll for you though... hope that's what you wanted :D

Regards,

sherob

05-16-2006, 05:46 AM

Mine is fickle... hot days, 3 bars. Cold days, 1-2 bars when riding... it will hit 3 bars if I'm sitting :rolleyes: Started this right before Texas TechSTOC.

Txrebel

05-16-2006, 05:54 AM

Mine ran 2 bars all the way in to work this am at 57 degrees. Has to be more like 70 to run steady at 3 bars. I have a replacement stats but will not worry about replacing it just yet.

Greg

Bacon

05-16-2006, 06:02 AM

still OK but only 6k miles

nm6r

05-16-2006, 07:17 AM

Rob and Greg, it's official, you both have failed thermostats.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

billxp

05-16-2006, 07:18 AM

Still ok 17k miles. :biker:

Mellow

05-16-2006, 07:20 AM

Rob and Greg, it's official, you both have failed thermostats.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

Just like Ray's Avatar suggests... anything 2 bars or less and you're in failure mode....

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/image.php?u=1840&dateline=1146415201

Pred8tor

05-16-2006, 07:51 AM

... anything 2 bars or less and you're in failure mode....

+1 on this. I just had mine replaced under warranty. The dealer (Stroud Honda here in Greensboro) was pretty decent about it. They were willing to tear into it and test it. I actually ordered a stat the week before because they don't stock them, and can't order them for warranty work until they prove the original stat is faulty. The original stat turned out to be faulty... surprise!!

Mine got progressively worse. Initially it wouldn't constantly hold 3 bars in 35 degree weather. Then later it wouldn't hold 2 bars. Even if warmed up to 3 before riding, it would drop quickly to 2. The dealer wasn't so concerned about maintaining 3 bars while riding, but my second argument about extended warm-up times DID concern him.

The new stat works fine!

sherob

05-16-2006, 07:54 AM

I checked yes, and know it's toast... Master Tech told me so :D Just lazy about replacing it :rolleyes: Will do it when I do my radiator flush coming up :rolleyes:

Gug

05-16-2006, 10:50 AM

Somehow I believe there are those that are stuck and those that are going to be. But on a positive note, there isn't a heat problem in the summer either.

I just revoted. Mine actually was about 7-8k when it occured.

ALANT

05-16-2006, 11:12 AM

Was wondering how many ST1300 owners have experienced the dreaded thermostat failure ??? Mines taking about 16 - 17 miles now to get to three bars in 40 deg F weather. Gets to one bar real quick, stays at 2 bars for about 15 miles then finally three after 16 or so miles. Since we're getting into warm weather season (and works fine then) I'm not going to worry about it for now but seems to be a pretty common failure on our STs.

Mine failed at about the 15,000 mile as best I remember. The bike still ran fine but the fuel mpg performance dropped by about 6 to 8 mpg. Replaced it myself (wasn't too difficult) and back to 3 bars and the usual good ST fuel mileage.

AlanT :04biker:

Scooter

05-16-2006, 11:23 AM

I just noticed that TurboCity Tom now sells a replacement thermostat. Has anybody tried his version yet?

Pred8tor

05-16-2006, 11:34 AM

But on a positive note, there isn't a heat problem in the summer either.

Well, I thought it might be a reason I don't seem to have a heat problem. But we did have a warm 85+ day or two last month, and in traffic the fans kicked in and 3 bars on the gauge.

Anyone ever have a replacement stat go bad???

Putt

05-16-2006, 12:37 PM

mine lasted for 24k miles before it bit the dust... I thought I might have been
lucky enough to not have the thermostat problem...... sigh...
(it's an 04)

Putt...

vfourlife

05-16-2006, 12:41 PM

Failing and staying open is better than failing and staying closed. 8,000 miles and no trouble for me. My last bike (VFR750) had 56,000 miles and still had the stock thermo.

tccox

05-16-2006, 01:27 PM

Wow, 37% failure rate. A bit of a blimish on a otherwise perfect bike. But I'll live with it through the summer and then make a stab at replacing it myself this fall.

sherob

05-16-2006, 01:51 PM

I just noticed that TurboCity Tom now sells a replacement thermostat. Has anybody tried his version yet?

I asked him out of curiosity... exact specs as a Honda, made by another vendor, hence cheaper ;)

I'm going to order mine from him :)

STeveGray

05-16-2006, 02:11 PM

Dave/Charlie/Joe the poll really should have some indicator of mileage but I'm not sure how you'd do that. It says one thing if somebody has 4,000 miles and no failure. It says something totally different if they have 40,000 miles and no failure. Maybe checkboxes for failed between 1-10K... failed bet. 10-20K, etc. and Still good after 1-10k, still good after 10-20K, etc.

I checked no failure but I've only got 14,000 miles. I'm really watching it though after all I've read.

Vfourlife -- please tell me the bike in your avatar isn't yours. :eek: I can't begin to imagine the handling problems, especially in a good wind.

Mellow

05-16-2006, 02:21 PM

That's a good point, I'll strip the poll and add mileage amounts... then you can just check the mileage...

Mellow

05-16-2006, 02:29 PM

Okay, I changed this so that you ONLY vote if you had a failure... We already know it's a pretty small percentage and anyone that votes NO now won't be able to come back to this and vote again as the polls don't allow that.

So IF you did have a failure, check what mileage it was at..

Pred8tor

05-16-2006, 02:33 PM

Hmmm... I first noticed something wrong in December, so my mileage must have been around 8-9,000 miles.

Txrebel

05-17-2006, 06:45 AM

I checked yes, and know it's toast... Master Tech told me so :D Just lazy about replacing it :rolleyes: Will do it when I do my radiator flush coming up :rolleyes:

Wanna meet up and do them same time?

sherob

05-17-2006, 06:53 AM

Wanna meet up and do them same time?

When are you planning on doing yours? I'm at 15k now... I just gotta make sure it's a weekend that my wife isn't working :rolleyes:

I'll order both of our stats from TT, if you don't mind not having a non OEM ;)

Mellow

05-17-2006, 07:10 AM

Burger

05-17-2006, 07:28 AM

It was just thinking about this poll, it's a really hard poll to get any good numbers from...

The reason I say this is if you live in TX, you could put 30k miles on your bike before the temps are low enough to indicate your thermostat is bad.

If you are in the northern states, it will be noticed more quickly. So, I'm not sure mileage has much to do with it as temps.

But, let's keep it going, it should produce some interesting trends either way.

Joe,

The only problem I see with it now is that it gives no indication for how many have thermostats that haven't failed. Then the problem becomes that mileage is also as relevant in that... so it's almost like we need the same scale again but for those that haven't failed... kind of yes/no on each mileage option... Hm... there you go... a challenge... a 3 dimensional poll lol.

MMOB

05-17-2006, 07:40 AM

Many VFR's are affected by stuck open tstat also. But only a few owners have a repeat failure. If the tstat is inherently unreliable, there should be a large percentage of repeat failures. That may suggest other factors are involved in the cause.

To play devil's advocate on the third party tstat: Has Honda actually published a spec for the tstat? What proof is offered that the aftermarket one is equivalent? Does your dealer agree the aftermarket tstat would not affect warranty coverage? Not often can you get something better for less.

Mellow

05-17-2006, 07:42 AM

Joe,

The only problem I see with it now is that it gives no indication for how many have thermostats that haven't failed. Then the problem becomes that mileage is also as relevant in that... so it's almost like we need the same scale again but for those that haven't failed... kind of yes/no on each mileage option... Hm... there you go... a challenge... a 3 dimensional poll lol.

Just like a Brit to think 'out of the box'... yet, in a sphere... LOL

The only problem I have with a 'no' vote is IF it does fail someone can't come back and vote yes, it would need to be a new poll. I wish they'd correct that in future versions of the software, it just seems so obvious to me.

The problem is also that those that have had a failure, will take the time and effort to vote as those that haven't are less inclined as it doesn't mean as much to them so the 'NO' vote isn't all that accurate. The percentage doesn't mean as much since I'd like to thing Number of members minus those that voted the tstat failed is the number that haven't failed. See what I mean?

The poll isn't intended to be negative towards this issue, just to see how many have had failures... I'm pretty sure it's a low percentage of the whole.

Polls are very difficut to get any good data from unless they are so basic that there isn't any 'wiggle' room for interpretation, VERY difficult.

What do you think?

Burger

05-17-2006, 07:50 AM

Errrr yeah... OK :D

Valid points... as always... and yes it would be good to be able to switch your vote, or at least have that as an option.

Regards,

MMOB

05-17-2006, 07:57 AM

Just like a Brit to think 'out of the box'... yet, in a sphere... LOL

The only problem I have with a 'no' vote is IF it does fail someone can't come back and vote yes, it would need to be a new poll. I wish they'd correct that in future versions of the software, it just seems so obvious to me.

The problem is also that those that have had a failure, will take the time and effort to vote as those that haven't are less inclined as it doesn't mean as much to them so the 'NO' vote isn't all that accurate. The percentage doesn't mean as much since I'd like to thing Number of members minus those that voted the tstat failed is the number that haven't failed. See what I mean?

The poll isn't intended to be negative towards this issue, just to see how many have had failures... I'm pretty sure it's a low percentage of the whole.

Polls are very difficut to get any good data from unless they are so basic that there isn't any 'wiggle' room for interpretation, VERY difficult.

What do you think?

Four simple polls, open for a few weeks to spot trends:

1. Has your tstat failed? yes/no

2. For those that experienced a failure, how many miles?

3. For those that experienced a failure, how many months?

4. For those that experienced a failure, was your coolant ever changed? yes/no

I don't expect poll #2 to add any insight.

sherob

05-17-2006, 08:39 AM

To play devil's advocate on the third party tstat: Has Honda actually published a spec for the tstat? What proof is offered that the aftermarket one is equivalent? Does your dealer agree the aftermarket tstat would not affect warranty coverage? Not often can you get something better for less.

If the tstat is made for your bike by a non oem vendor, your warranty can't be voided by using it. Federal law protects you from this... if not, you would have to buy all consumables and parts from OEM, see the Magnuson-Moss act.

As for getting something better for less... I think my ST is better than alot of bikes that cost more ;)

WarER4X

05-17-2006, 09:36 AM

+1 on this. I just had mine replaced under warranty. The dealer (Stroud Honda here in Greensboro) was pretty decent about it. They were willing to tear into it and test it. I actually ordered a stat the week before because they don't stock them...

Now see, this sort of thing DRIVES ME FREAKIN' NUTS!!! What sort of parts counter doesn't stock a thermostat? I can understand not stocking every little special part under the sun, but a thermostat? Ridiculous. Motorcycle dealerships (the Big 4, anyway) are the worst when it comes to managing inventory in an effective manner.

So far, I've got over 30K miles (not sure of the exact number right now) on my ST, but no problems with the thermostat. Interestingly enough, though, my car thermostat just failed (closed) yesterday afternoon, but it was at 61K miles. Themostats are scary little buggers. Their failure life is very unpredictable and, if they fail closed, they can leave you stranded at the drop of a hat. Fortunately, my car's thermostat failed while I was in my driveway.

-SR-

MMOB

05-17-2006, 09:38 AM

If the tstat is made for your bike by a non oem vendor, your warranty can't be voided by using it. Federal law protects you from this... if not, you would have to buy all consumables and parts from OEM, see the Magnuson-Moss act.

As for getting something better for less... I think my ST is better than alot of bikes that cost more ;)

Ok, we have all heard the MM rant before, but the question was: "What assurance is offered it is an equivalent part?"

Has the vendor obtained specs from Honda or have they somehow reverse engineered or extrapolated the specs? Can they be trusted to do that well enough? Does the vendor stand behind the product with a written warranty? How is it that the vendor can provide a better part for less?

Txrebel

05-17-2006, 09:46 AM

When are you planning on doing yours? I'm at 15k now... I just gotta make sure it's a weekend that my wife isn't working :rolleyes:

I'll order both of our stats from TT, if you don't mind not having a non OEM ;)

I have not decided to actually replace mine yet. Open to suggestions for when.
I already have a replacement stat, just have not picked up the new coolant yet. Have printed the procedures that LEO posted so I could get familiar with the procedures before opening it up.

sherob

05-17-2006, 09:49 AM

Ok, we have all heard the MM rant before, but the question was: "What assurance is offered it is an equivalent part?"

Has the vendor obtained specs from Honda or have they somehow reverse engineered or extrapolated the specs? Can they be trusted to do that well enough? Does the vendor stand behind the product with a written warranty? How is it that the vendor can provide a better part for less?

When you buy a replacement tstat for your car or any other part, do you ask the samething :confused: Do you use Honda oil in your bike with the OEM filter :confused: MM rant :confused:

I personally trust TT... he rides a ST... he developes parts for the ST... I don't think he would sell a product that would not meet or beat Honda specs :rolleyes:

sherob

05-17-2006, 09:58 AM

I have not decided to actually replace mine yet. Open to suggestions for when.
I already have a replacement stat, just have not picked up the new coolant yet. Have printed the procedures that LEO posted so I could get familiar with the procedures before opening it up.

Whenever... I'm ordering mine today... where are you getting your fluid, HDL?

billxp

05-17-2006, 10:46 AM

Now see, this sort of thing DRIVES ME FREAKIN' NUTS!!! What sort of parts counter doesn't stock a thermostat? I can understand not stocking every little special part under the sun, but a thermostat? Ridiculous. Motorcycle dealerships (the Big 4, anyway) are the worst when it comes to managing inventory in an effective manner.
-SR-
As a former part manager for an auto dealer, I have to tell you that happens all the time.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard "why don't we stock this"
You stock what you sell. Its all about the money. Parts represent money. Parts on the shelf that do not sell is like putting money under your mattress, its not making money for you. Its actually costing the dealer in terms of warehouse space, insurance and funds not available for other parts. Granted this may not be the case and alot of places are just unrealistic, they want to make money without investing any. In my store if we sold a part at least 3 times a year I stocked it, excluding very high dollar items. Lower dollar items you would stock more. Hardest thing was getting my counter guys to actually get the concept of "lost sales" or how you would have sold it if you had stocked it and that we need to count those also. Its a very tough balance to keep between customer satisfaction, inventory levels and making a dollar.
Ok back to the subject at hand.

jnsgardner

05-17-2006, 01:06 PM

I changed out my OEM thermostat this past weekend because I was having all the symtoms that others have spoken of. I used Turbo Tom's and everything is working perfectly. I also did the coolant flush at the same time. A gallon bottle of Honda certified coolant can be found at a Honda AUTO dealer.

For thost of you thinking of doing this, you need to get two copper crush washers and an O-ring seal for the thermostat housing. The STealer had the washers in stock, but had to order the O-ring. Most of the tupperware has to come off too, so it might be a good time to consider installing a loud Stebel horn at the same time.

The instructions are easy and found on this website. Basicly, you take the tupperware off, take out the radiator by taking off hose clamps and a few bolts, open the thermostat housing, slap a new one in there with a new o-ring, put everything back together. I did the flush, thermostat replacement, and Stebel Nautilus compact horn install all in a long afternoon. Be prepared for a trip to Radio Shack for wire, connectors, and ring connectors for your battery screws.

With the tupperware off and you're around 16,000 miles, you might drive to your local STealer, show him the stuck OEM thermostat, tell him you gave him a break on a warrenty replacement, and see if he'll give you a break on a valve check. He might laugh, but you never know. Flushing your brakes and clutch need to be done too, so you might consider using that as a fall back position :-)

John

DonF

05-19-2006, 02:31 PM

Were you told that it is operating as designed?

Gug

05-20-2006, 05:39 AM

Were you told that it is operating as designed?

Yes. They said this is normal at 2 dealers. Called Honda as well. I now know that the difference between 1 and 3 bars is approximately 25F in engine temperature. That is negligable to a an air/water cooled motor. Someday again when it's convenient (maybe the 32k valve check) I'll tell the dealer to do it. I just had the 16k done in February and told them to change out the t-stat, but they said it was fine, of course after I picked it up. So I am not going to get in the revolving door of symantics with the dealers and Honda again.