View Full Version : Michelin Pilot Road A?
I'm looking at ordering a new set of tires other than the oem Bridgestones since they are on backorder. The Michelin web site (http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=2092004104045&codePage=2092004104045_09092004142252&lang=EN) lists a 170/60 ZR 17 and an ST1300 specific tire, 170/60 ZR 17 PILOT ROAD A (for Honda ST 1300 Pan European). I called Michelin. The good news is they said the Pilot Road does not have steel belts. The bad news is they couldn't tell me how to determine if it is a universal tire or the A version spec'd for the ST1300. He could only find one listed.
Anyone know more?
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
Bones
05-30-2006, 11:42 AM
I don't, but you may try Dave at MotoRace:
Phone: 800.628.4040
Dave@motorace.com (Dave@motorace.com)
wjbertrand
05-30-2006, 12:02 PM
I asked about this at SWMototires where I bought my Roads and they didn't know anything about a specific ST1300 tire there either. Their list only showed one version. Maybe this is the special non-humming version? ;)
sherob
05-30-2006, 12:03 PM
This is were I got mine ;)
http://arizonamoto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SWMT&Category_Code=Pilotrd
sherob
05-30-2006, 12:22 PM
Info on the "A" designation ;)
http://www.biker247.com/news/2015.asp
Have just ordered some, and asked the "A" question... the reply:
Not listed in my books, but I would be happy to go to europe and get you one. Just dont ask the price, and can you
send me a credit card. They have many things, tires, bikes, etc, in europe; that we dont have here. Maybe we can trade them a
hillary for a Pilot Road A for your bike.
Info on the "A" designation ;)
http://www.biker247.com/news/2015.asp
Maybe this explains the unusual wear I have on the outside portions of the rear tread. They are going bald about 55-60% of the way from center to the outside edge. Yes, I keep my tires at 42 psi, check once a week.
Now I don't know what to do.
Between the humming, poor wear and availability of only an inadequate tire, the Pilot Roads sound like a really bad idea on the ST1300.
After two flats very recently, I have no desire to find out what happens when a tire not designed for the ST goes flat.
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
Now I don't know what to do.
Between the humming, poor wear and availability of only an inadequate tire, the Pilot Roads sound like a really bad idea on the ST1300.
After two flats very recently, I have no desire to find out what happens when a tire not designed for the ST goes flat.
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
I hear ya... thanx for the timely post man, I wasn't aware of the "A", and now the wear issue bothers me some more, just put my order on hold.
Why don't you go with the Z6's, Ray?
Why don't you go with the Z6's, Ray?
I don't want a steel belted tire. I want something I can plug and finish my trip or at least get home on.
Also, I'm not convinced the Metzelers meet the specs required on the ST.
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
sherob
05-30-2006, 01:55 PM
I looked at my rear PR... I have the "A" version, "72W" stamped on it :cool:
billxp
05-30-2006, 02:05 PM
Does it have an "A" stamped somewhere???
Checked the set on my bike no "A". Also looking at the set right next to my desk waiting to be installed. No "A" on them either.
But they are both "72W"
sherob
05-30-2006, 02:10 PM
It has "M/C 72W" stamped on it ;) According to the article, the 72W denotes the "A" model.
Bones
05-30-2006, 02:11 PM
I have a 59W front and 72W rear.
Greg, if you go with Z6s consider an ME880 on the rear. My Z6 rear got trashed by 6k and you appear to eat tires faster than I do. The front was noisy at 6k but it had some life remaining when I got PRs for the test.
From what I read on this forum, the harder compound of the ME880 extends treadlife to more closely approximate the tread life of the Z6 in front. I haven't ridden that combination, wet or dry, but I recall my Z6s being more squirrelly in the rain than the BT020s. After the way PRs performed in AquaSTOC conditions, I'd be amazed if another tire would do better in the wet, and I like the smooth turn in from the rounder profile in any conditions.
There's no perfect tire for every bike, rider and conditions, and we all have our preferences.
Steve ran the Avons and now has PRs...you might ask for his $.02.
billxp
05-30-2006, 02:52 PM
It has "M/C 72W" stamped on it ;) According to the article, the 72W denotes the "A" model.
That would be nice. But it does not really say that. But I do hope your right.
I can't seem to find a spec on the Non "A" tires anywhere.
Well I have 8K on mine now and don't see me getting 12k like the Stones.
billxp
05-30-2006, 03:27 PM
Motorace has a pdf file for the PR HERE (http://www.motorace.com/pdf_downloads/06catalogs/Mich%20Pilot%20Road_06.pdf)
It does not list an "A" tire but does have the 170/60ZR17 and its a "72W"
The article about the "A" tire is over a year old and maybe they phased out the none "A". But I don't have a clue and without specs it tough to know.
BC Rider
05-30-2006, 03:46 PM
I'm guessing a bit here, but I believe the 72W is a load/speed rating
72 being the load = 783 lbs
see here http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-tires/tire-data.htm
W being the speed = 270 kph
see here http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35
I know that the latter link is for car tires, but could not find any mc tire info of the same.
Looks like the Z or ZR designation is kept on the tires for marketting purposes because "everyone knows that Z rated tires are the best" - but the industry has evolved beyond Z which was established some time ago.
Also, I've noticed that most 170/60ZR17 motorcycle tires come with the 72W designation. This includes Dunlops.
The OEM BT020 is listed as a 73W. --- ie the F model
The general BT020 is listed as a 72W. --- ie the U model
see here: http://www.motorcycle-karttires.com/glamourindex.aspx?productID=2
Presumably the Load/Speed rating might help us finally get rid of the uncertainty wrt whether your tire meets the needs of the bike.
FWI 73 load rating is 805 lbs.
I'm not too worried about the 20 lbs, but will keep my eyes out for a 73W replacement tire in the future.
wjbertrand
05-30-2006, 04:50 PM
I looked at my rear PR... I have the "A" version, "72W" stamped on it :cool:
That's just the standard load rating for this size tires, I would imagine the A model has the same or a higher rating than 72W.
SteveST1300
05-30-2006, 05:18 PM
Sounds like the same type of problem people came up with on the Avons I ran a set of them for over 11K with no problems. I have the PR's on now I hope I can get that much out of them. Seems like the manufacturers like to keep all this info close to the vest. I hope we can get some good answers. I called Avon and was tyold the tyre was OK as long as you kept it below Autobahn speeds.:03biker:
NormanPCN
05-30-2006, 06:23 PM
That's just the standard load rating for this size tires, I would imagine the A model has the same or a higher rating than 72W.
Not necessarily. The Metz "B" spec tires for the BMW and FJR have the same ratings as the "normal" tire, but the tire is constructed slightly differently. Same for Avon. 72 is the industry standard load rating for a 170/60R17 rear tire. 59 is the standard load rating for the 120/70R18 front.
The OEM BT020 is listed as a 73W. --- ie the F model
The general BT020 is listed as a 72W. --- ie the U model
see here: http://www.motorcycle-karttires.com/glamourindex.aspx?productID=2
Presumably the Load/Speed rating might help us finally get rid of the uncertainty wrt whether your tire meets the needs of the bike.
FWI 73 load rating is 805 lbs.
I'm not too worried about the 20 lbs, but will keep my eyes out for a 73W replacement tire in the future.
hmmmm. I wonder why my F version rear tire has a 72W rating on the side wall.
Oh well. It looks like my only choice is to give the Pilot Roads a try since the latest word I hear is the Bridgestones are backordered until June 15. Could be sooner or later I suppose but I'm not waiting to find out.
As someone that has no chicken strips on his BT020's, I'll be reporting my impressions of the Pilot Roads after I am able to give them a good work out. It will also be interesting to see how long they last assuming no more road hazards. :eek:
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
hmmmm. I wonder why my F version rear tire has a 72W rating on the side wall.
Oh well. It looks like my only choice is to give the Pilot Roads a try since the latest word I hear is the Bridgestones are backordered until June 15. Could be sooner or later I suppose but I'm not waiting to find out.
As someone that has no chicken strips on his BT020's, I'll be reporting my impressions of the Pilot Roads after I am able to give them a good work out. It will also be interesting to see how long they last assuming no more road hazards. :eek:
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
Hey Ray, go for it man... my concerns have been calmed by the fact that several others here have not had the wear problem I noticed on mine... I must have lapsed on checking my pressures during the end of the season, they were down 10# when I took her out in the spring, which is a little more than usual. They are a great handling tire, and have quite a bit more tread on angle than the 020's. My chicken strips on the 020's were almost non-existant, they are close to .25" on the PR's even though I probably ride it harder now than I did in the first 6K. You'll likely be getting well into hard bits before you roll these over.
:04biker:
ccryder
05-31-2006, 07:56 AM
I just turned 49k this morning on Indigo. This first set of PR's have 7,200 miles on them and should go to at least the 9k mark. This is typical of what I have seen on the B-stones and Avons. I will not be able to tell for sure since I need to change these out for my trip in 2 weeks. I have another set waiting in the garage. My trip looks like 7k miles in 2 weeks. When I get back I'll need another set pretty quick, better get a set ordered.
Neil S.
dduelin
05-31-2006, 08:39 AM
Now I don't know what to do.
Between the humming, poor wear and availability of only an inadequate tire, the Pilot Roads sound like a really bad idea on the ST1300.
After two flats very recently, I have no desire to find out what happens when a tire not designed for the ST goes flat.
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
Despite not being "specified" for the ST1300 the PR's are giving better wear than the OEM Bridgestones I replaced and I am much more confident on the PR's in both dry and wet conditions. The poor wear reported here seems to be an isolated report. Before I decided on the Michelins I read everything I could find on the net about this tire. That included this forum and others. The Bridgestones were into the last 25% of life at 6,000 miles and I was looking at a 2,000 mile trip to and from the mountains so I replaced them at 6,400 miles. At 5,100 miles the PR rear is about 50% of thread depth with no cupping that the Bridgestones began showing at 4,000 miles.
Thanks guys. I'm feeling much better about them now. My only concern that I still have is what happens with a flat. Hopefully I won't be finding out. ;)
As far as air pressure, I'm anal about it so it sounds like wear should be fine.
My new Pilot Roads should be here by Friday.
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
Bones
05-31-2006, 09:21 AM
Thanks guys. I'm feeling much better about them now. My only concern that I still have is what happens with a flat. Hopefully I won't be finding out. ;)
Hopefully you'll run flat free. If you do get a flat, you can plug PRs without worrying that steel belts will cut through the plug because PRs are not steel belted.
crazykz
05-31-2006, 10:09 AM
I'm not sure about the exact rating but the Pilot Roads I've been ordering from SW Moto Tires are performing just fine.
Curt
BlueByU
06-06-2006, 10:10 AM
Has anybody found that the PR are harsher riding.Besides me.I have about 4k on them and I'm not liking them at all.I'll be going back to Stones.I have the wxyz model.:D
sherob
06-06-2006, 10:22 AM
I found them to be softer... at least softer than the 020's ;) The seem to soak up things that the 020's wouldn't :)
Bones
06-06-2006, 10:35 AM
I'm with Rob. Very nice riding tire with smooth turn in, good stick and great rain performance. I'm getting a little too much opportunity to practice wet weathing riding skills of late, but I'm glad for the PRs in such weather.
Someone mentioned what looks like a seam right of center on the front tire. Mine has that. Dave from Motorace says he has no explanation. I don't pretend to be an expert, but to me it looks too consistent to be a defect. I expect it's part of the way the tire is made. I don't feel any transition off/on when going into a right turn. It gives me less concern than the many small chunks of tread that were missing from my Z6s (especially the rear) after 6,000 miles.
There is more wear left of center. I wonder how much of the wear left of center is simply a function of the crown in the road. And, at least in New England on the secondary roads I ride, there is a relatively high frequency of off-camber curves, which shift the contact patch even more to the left (when you're on the right side of the road, where I try to stay).
After 10K on a set of PRs provided at no cost in exchange for a write up of my $.02, the wear bars in front are just coming flush. I just spent my own coin to buy another set of PRs. I prefer them over the OEM BT020s or Z6s. If they'd only learn the words (so they could stop humming) they'd be about perfect.
sherob
06-06-2006, 10:47 AM
Curt told me the seam is from the moulding process ;) I have had plenty of rain riding on mine... very good tire :)
I haven't found them to be harder or softer than the oem Bridgestones. They certainly have no more grip, probably no less either.
They have got to be one of the worse handling tires ever. They have changed my ST from quick steering to heavy steering. Don't even get me started on how they slip and slide on tar snakes like I've never experienced, even the old tar snakes that I've never had a tire slip on. The howling is pretty bad too.
I can see where some guys like them. The steering is so heavy it gives a feeling of stability. That might be fine for a lot of freeway riding but I am looking for much more from my tires. I can hardly wait to switch back to the Bridgestones. What really torques me off is that I was really optimistic giving the Pilot Roads a try with the praise I kept hearing about them.
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
dobias
06-27-2006, 08:50 AM
Is the concern of flat plugging in steel belted tires because of the rubber plugs or does it include the sticky string repairs?
dobias
Bones
06-27-2006, 10:41 AM
Interesting question, dobias. The mushroom plug issue was tossed back and forth for a while in MCN and I don't know that there was any definitive resolution. I don't recall if steel belts were a problem with sticky strings or not.
If it's a concern, consider that not all tires that fit the ST are steel belted. BT020s are. Z6s and ME880s are. Pilot Roads are not. Not sure about D220s or Avons.
If it's a concern, consider that not all tires that fit the ST are steel belted. BT020s are. Z6s and ME880s are. Pilot Roads are not. Not sure about D220s or Avons.
Correction
oem BT020s are not steel belted. The U version is, which should not be used on the ST.
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
This is were I got mine ;)
http://arizonamoto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SWMT&Category_Code=Pilotrd
And I mine.......and I like them........much better than my old Battlax tires.
wjbertrand
06-30-2006, 02:02 PM
I haven't found them to be harder or softer than the oem Bridgestones. They certainly have no more grip, probably no less either.
They have got to be one of the worse handling tires ever. They have changed my ST from quick steering to heavy steering. Don't even get me started on how they slip and slide on tar snakes like I've never experienced, even the old tar snakes that I've never had a tire slip on. The howling is pretty bad too.
I can see where some guys like them. The steering is so heavy it gives a feeling of stability. That might be fine for a lot of freeway riding but I am looking for much more from my tires. I can hardly wait to switch back to the Bridgestones. What really torques me off is that I was really optimistic giving the Pilot Roads a try with the praise I kept hearing about them.
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
Are you still feeling this way Ray? I guess I'm surprised. I find the 'roads a little slower steering than the Avons, but much better than the OEM Dunflops. I've got about 2K on these tires and don't really have any complaints. My final opinion on them will be finding out how the handling changes as they wear and how long they'll last.
Are you still feeling this way Ray? I guess I'm surprised. I find the 'roads a little slower steering than the Avons, but much better than the OEM Dunflops. I've got about 2K on these tires and don't really have any complaints. My final opinion on them will be finding out how the handling changes as they wear and how long they'll last.
I now have just under 3,000 miles on them. I consider this a true sport touring mileage. Probably about 20% local stuff, 40% freeway, 40% serious California twisties. I am more used to the slow turning. I don't like it any better but at least I'm not expecting the quick steering. I still miss the quick steering because I know the ST is capable of much better handling. The tires still slip, slide and wiggle on tar snakes to the point of an 8 to 9 on the pucker factor. Beside the tar snakes, the grip seems about on par with the oem Bridgestones. The howling is now really grinding on me. It's most annoying at around 40mph.
BTW, the 'line' on the right side of each tire appeared at about 500 miles. It has absolutely nothing to do with the molding as the molding alternates left and right across the center of the tires. The line isn't felt at this point.
I'm don't know what kind of mileage to expect yet.
The bottom line is, I will without question go back to the oem Bridgestones.
Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif
Killtimer
06-30-2006, 05:33 PM
The Michelin tire selector guide on their site does not have a recommended fitment for the ST1300. This leads me to believe that the PR's (like the Avons) have not yet passed the testing necessary to be an accepted replacement in Europe. The "A" version of the 'Roads may still be in testing. I'd love to have more variety, but like Ray, I'm in favour of the heavier carcass Aramid belted tires.
billxp
06-30-2006, 07:13 PM
On my seconds set of Roads. I got 9k out of the first set.
I did speak to the Michelin Rep at the Honda Hoot and he lead me to believe that they will be changing something with this tire around December. I was lead to believe that the tire would be quieter and last longer. I'll have to see.
As far as steering. The bike turns as fast as you push. Yes the falling in feeling is gone but I like the steady input needed with the Roads. Tar snakes have not been a problem for me and that includes wet weather, which I've seen alot of in the past few months. I do wish they were quieter and lasted longer.
jeffmiller
06-30-2006, 10:27 PM
I'm at 11K on my stock tires that came with the bike, and it looks like I will get at least another 2K out of them. Don't ask me why but they are wearing very well.
Anyone have any contrast to offer between the Avons and the PR's?
Jeff
CrashTestDanny
07-02-2006, 09:58 PM
I replaced a set of Metzler Z6s with PRs. The Z6s had 3,500 miles on them and had never been run low (SmartTire system checked religiously). The rear was cupping badly and the front never had any grip. I won't blame the tires for my crash (they had 1k miles when I crashed), but I do believe they contributed to my loss of control.
I have about 500 miles on the PRs now and so far, my experience is nothng like Ray's. I find the steering to be much quicker than with the Z6s or the OEM Dunlops. The ST feels lighter on its feet and it feels more planted in the turns. Overall, I am much happier about the PRs than I was about the Z6s. If I manage to get 10k miles out of them, I'll be ecstatic. Otherwise I'll probably go back to the OEM Dunlops - or maybe try out the OEM Stones.
wjbertrand
07-05-2006, 11:06 AM
BTW, the 'line' on the right side of each tire appeared at about 500 miles. It has absolutely nothing to do with the molding as the molding alternates left and right across the center of the tires. The line isn't felt at this point.
I'm starting to see this on my front tire too. So far there does not seem to be any height difference across the "line" and it has actually become less prominent from when I first noticed it. Handling doesn't seem to be affected at all. I'm only seeing it on the front, no hint of anything similar on the rear. Depending on how this goes I may or may not end up a happy user of these tires. I've got about 3K on them now and still no real complaints. Either I've gotten used to it or the "howling" that was apparent when they were first fitted has abated somewhat.
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