Pilot Road - Truck wobble

[tdeboeser]

I was impressed by the favorable reports of the Pilot Roads here so I went and got some. Initially, they ride good and griped very well. Then I noticed some wobble when passing a 18 wheeler. I thought it could be tire pressure or break in. We this weekend I ran my first rally ( Mason-dixon 2020, ride report comming soon ) and after 2000+ miles I still get the wobble.

I've only experiance this type of wobble on the stock tires, my last tires were 'stones (020) and I didn't have this wobble. I havn't seen any other reports of Pilots and wobble but I just wanted to ask. I inspected the bearings and such before installing the wheels and I have checked the wheels for movment, but I can't find anything. My tire pressure is 42r 40f.

Thanks,

Tom de

[sherob]

I run 42f/r and don't notice a wobble when passing trucks... no issues other than dirty air. ;)

Why do you run 40f? Something I don't know :o:

[tdeboeser]

I run 42f/r and don't notice a wobble when passing trucks... no issues other than dirty air. ;)

Why do you run 40f? Something I don't know :o:

Nope... I thought that was the right pressure. umm... maybe I'll pump a coupla pounds in before I go home...

[sherob]

Nope... I thought that was the right pressure. umm... maybe I'll pump a coupla pounds in before I go home...

Thought you knew something I didn't :eek: I notice the PR's are very finicky with low air pressure... compared to the 020's :rolleyes: JMHO :)

[MMOB]

The PR's don't seem to be more sensitive than D220's, BT020's or AV45/46's to air turbulence near trucks.

Any chance one of the wheels was not balanced right or the steering stem needs to be torqued?

[rsadler221]

I have had the same problem with my pilots. If I am behind a truck or I facing a strong head wind I definitely get a front wobble. If I move the handlebars side to side I really feel the wobble. When I am riding without the front facing wind, the front end feels very stable. I also did not have the wobble with the Bridgestones. That being said I do like the way the pilots handle in the curves.

Robert

[Bones]

It amazes me how people have such different experiences with tires. (Not a critique leveled at anyone, just an observation.)

The only wobble I ever had with my ST was the BT020s tendancy to "search" on a steel deck bridge. No such tendancy with Z6s or PRs.

[naturally wired]

Not to sound dumb or start a flame fest.....but what do the tires have to do with holding your arms too straight and/or griping to hard.....when I first started riding this amazing machine I held on way to tight and straight armed it ....it wanted to do everything wrong ....I found it was the wind hitting my shoulders and I needed to losen up things and put a little flex in the arms ......the pilot roads will hum.....but they do everything else right for me .....one final note before you disagree......ask yourself a question here "do trucks make me nerves"...if you answer "yes"...its probably the death grip thing ......a way to test my thoughts would be for you to go into a full tuck(lay on the tank) as you pass the truck......if you have a top box, all beats are off though !!!!!!

[rsadler221]

I can tell you it has nothing to do with how I am holding the handle bars. I noticed this from day one when using the pilots. I ride in heavy traffic everyday on the interstate so I have no fear of trucks. In fact I have found it is more of a problem when I am facing a strong head wind. I have tried every way of holding the handlebars and the bike wobbles with the pilots. It is something I never experienced with the Bridgestones. It doesn't feel dangerous just unstable.

Robert

[tdeboeser]

I barly hold on to the bars... I have no other wooble with the PR's until I come up to a semi at 65mph+. I have no issues with trucks, even when the bike woobles, I'm not "scared". I know the bike will hold its own. I noticed this wooble before 1400mile rally, and I that at 75-85mph whereever I could. I will say am deathly of f$#@!@&'ing deer - there were dead bodys everwhere in PA...

I had no such issue with the B020's. That said over all I still like the PRs better.

The balancing seems fine, if not the bike would shake and not wooble. It's really not a "show stopper" for me. Just wanted to see if anyone else noticed the same thing.


Thanks,

Tom de

[NormanPCN]

It amazes me how people have such different experiences with tires. (Not a critique leveled at anyone, just an observation.)


Why? Human variation exceeds other variances. Even at the super pro racing level where two people run equavelent lap times. The vehicles may be setup quite differently due to driver preference.

[naturally wired]

Are you guys sure about the wind not being the problem ?...If your sure the only other advice I can think of at this point is.....What about fatigue.....the only other time the bike starts doing anything strange is when I'm fatigued.....I glad you like your pilots...:) ......I find any trade off (the tire noise) is worth the payoff (wet road trac.,don't follow the tar snakes and cracks, better cornering feel):) ...one other note...... the tire pressure advice given by sherob....has held true for me also :) ....good luck, hope you can figure this one out!!!!!

[Bones]

Why? Human variation exceeds other variances. Even at the super pro racing level where two people run equavelent lap times. The vehicles may be setup quite differently due to driver preference.
I think we're on the same page, Norman. The most significant variable is the people involved. Perhaps "amazes" wasn't the best word choice. I am continually interested in the variety of opinions and the underlying rationales, especially when we have ST as common starting point.

[steve3b3]

I've noticed this too.

I ride the turnpike to/from work, and the bike DOES hunt when in the wake of a large truck. I'm running 42/42 in my tires, stock windscreen, no farkles which would affect airflow...

Steve:04biker:

[sherob]

One thing I was going to mention to Tom is I have my preload max'ed since I run a topbox most of the time and I run with the shield all the way down ;) These 2 things will make a difference with the front end :)

[Simmons1]

I rode 1769 miles over the weekend with a new set of PR's. I noticed the truck wobble as well compared to the 020's I took off. I also now have a pronounced decel wobble at a about 40 MPH.

I do like the way the PR's handle compared to the 020's.

[Medicine Bear]

I just put the PR's on today so I don't have a lot of experience with them. I was behind quite a few 18-wheelers today between Ignacio, CO and Cortez and didn't notice any wobble. The only thing I did notice is that the bike is a lot more "flickable" than before. it feels 50 pounds lighter.

I also ran some roads with grooves - no tendency to hunt. I really like the PR's.

BTW, they do have a pronounced sound the Axes didn't have - could be because the Axes didn't have much tread left either. :D

Fred :03biker:

[tdeboeser]

I shoulda remembered to check the preload - basics, Tom, basics. I do keep the sheild down, when its above 45degs out. I'll play with the preload for the commute back home today...

And I agree with Fred, bike feels lighter, and wants to turn in faster. It also seems to want to accel better - BUT this is probably all just in my head. :D

Thanks,

Tom de

[EdsST]

The wobble on mine is no different that when I had OEM Bridgestones or Z-6 on the rear

[dduelin]

Not to sound dumb or start a flame fest.....but what do the tires have to do with holding your arms too straight and/or griping to hard.....when I first started riding this amazing machine I held on way to tight and straight armed it ....it wanted to do everything wrong ....I found it was the wind hitting my shoulders and I needed to losen up things and put a little flex in the arms ......the pilot roads will hum.....but they do everything else right for me .....one final note before you disagree......ask yourself a question here "do trucks make me nerves"...if you answer "yes"...its probably the death grip thing ......a way to test my thoughts would be for you to go into a full tuck(lay on the tank) as you pass the truck......if you have a top box, all beats are off though !!!!!!

I recently held my own set of not-so-scientific experiments about this while fighting boredom on a 460 mile superslab ride. I purposely rode in the wake of different sized vehicles to see how different sized vehicles created wobble and affect the amplitude. I didn't tailgate, but I stayed pretty much two seconds back. I tried to pace vehicles running a steady pace so I could set the throttle to match speeds then take my hands off the grips to eliminate any PIO (pilot induced oscillation). Speeds ranged from 70 to 80 mph.

I found that my hands and arms had no effect on the wobble. It's there from the dirty air streaming off the leading vehicle. Both hands, one hand, no hands. Minivans and station wagons like the Subaru Forester act like cars and don't create enough turbulence to wobble. Full size vans, large SUV's and panel trucks like those rented by Ryder and the like are large enough to cause Little Wobble. Of course we are all familar with 18 wheel tractor trailers. They make Wobble. One of these passing the one I was pacing make Big Wobble.

I started the experiment with the windshield all the way down. Interestingly enough, the amount of shield up did make a small but noticable difference. In a steady state behind a 18 wheeler I ran up the shield in small increments. All up or all down seemed pretty much the same wobble, but if the shield was about two inches up it seemed to reduce the wobble enough to notice. It does not go away but seemed to reduce it some.

I wish I had another word besides wobble to use here. It's more like a twitching or bobbling. At no time does the motion scare me or make me feel it may suddenly increase to a tank-slapper. I did not notice a difference in wobble between the OEM Bridgestones and the replacement Michelin Pilot Roads.

Perhaps someone else can duplicate these seat-of-the-pants efforts and add to what I tried to quantify.

[wjbertrand]

I tend to think of a wobble as a regular oscillation usually caused by some harmonic in the frame, suspension or other structure of the bike. All the ST's I've ridden or owned, both 1100 and 1300 varieties are subject to buffeting when in turbulent air flow. The buffeting however is not regular in frequency like a true oscillation, weave or wobble.

Having said that, my limited experience with the PRs on the 1300 so far doesn't indicate they are any worse than the OEM D220s or the Avons.

[uptoblackwood]

I had the wobble this past week (on a new set of Pilot Roads)....and especially at high speeds. I'm not so happy with these tires.

Forest

[ErnieCopp]

I now have about 3K on the MPRs. I like the grip and handling in general. They are noisy and, while I knew that in advance and thought it would not bother me, it is beginning to bother me. About wobble ... what I have noticed is that I get a kind of shaking with my Honda top box installed at speeds about ~ 65 or so and with the stock windshield from all the way down to about half way up. I attributed this to the top box rather than the tires. This happens in clean air but feels like riding in dirty air behind a truck.

Subsequently I moved the windshield to the upper mounting position and tested with the top box installed. It and seems better to me. More time will tell more.

What other tires do you all recommend for the ST?

Ernie

[naturally wired]

How about a ride report without the top box ?....I have read about police st1300's having this kind of problem......I'm not sure but I think there fix was a different top box ?....Like I said before I have had no problems like you guy's have had but my dragon has no top box and I ride without the bags most of the time also !.....after reading this tread you have helped me make the decision to go with the back rest for the girl friend and a soft bag behind that for the long trips !!!!

[tdeboeser]

( I have no top box ). I adjusted my suspension, tightened pre and softened damping. It has improved my "truck wobble" greatly. That said, I think the PR's tend to "search" a little more on the open road.
So, turn the pre-load clicker ( mine, I think, is at 32 clicks or 16 out from 0 ) tighter, and soften up the damping screw just ever so slightly ( IIRC mine is one turn out ).

Now the funny thing is, why the change from 020's to the PR's....


Tom de

[naturally wired]

My stockers followed every crack in the road....plus in the corners the front felt like it was going to make me low side........I now laugh at tar snakes ....can't feel every crack in the road and scrape my pegs !!......your picture shows a top box:confused:

[tdeboeser]

My stockers followed every crack in the road....plus in the corners the front felt like it was going to make me low side........I now laugh at tar snakes ....can't feel every crack in the road and scrape my pegs !!......your picture shows a top box:confused:

Yeah, thats me - I WISH!:D.
<smartass>Yeah... I was at a trackday, in europe with a buddy... and uh... a magazine guy was there yeah... </smartass>.
No, that pics from MC larry's site. But I still have issues with them damn tar snakes...


Tom de

[Bones]

I still have issues with them damn tar snakes...


Me, too. I did an otherwise gorgeous section of NY10 in the south part of the Adirondack Park...twisty windy, remote, scenic, but full of tar snakes. Worse yet it had been raining every day for about 100 years (well, maybe only 4 or 5 days) and the tar snakes were in low cracks so whatever water was left on the road gravitated there. I slowed the pace a notch and made a game of snaking between the tar snakes. Still made the front end go squirrelly a couple times. Whatever penny pincher invented tar snakes never rode a motorcycle.

[tdeboeser]

<snip>Still made the front end go squirrelly a couple times. Whatever penny pincher invented tar snakes never rode a motorcycle.

I had the problem with 020's and the PR's... seems only on some snakes tho. IIRC, it only began to happen with the 020's toward the end of thier life (the 020's).

Yeah, unfortunally it seems it might take someone dieing on them to get the snakes improved.


Tom de

[sherob]

Glad to see your PR's are riding a little better, Tom :) They just snaked the crap out of a street I ride home everyday... 3 miles of tar snakes now. Not a big deal if moving, but coming to a stop :o:

[tdeboeser]

Glad to see your PR's are riding a little better, Tom :) They just snaked the crap out of a street I ride home everyday... 3 miles of tar snakes now. Not a big deal if moving, but coming to a stop :o:

On my commute, I gotta off-ramp I used to love to get low in... now.... :eek:.... GOD I hate when that front "squiggles". I know it's not gonna put me on the ground, but I can't stand the way it feels... A buddy of mine rides with me ( commute ) on a VTX, he says his Avons do it too...

oh yeah...
:th1:

damn snakes....

Tom de