Recent experience with Pilot Roads...

[uptoblackwood]

I put a new set of Pilot Roads on the bike two weeks ago. I had purchased them in January from Southwest Moto Tire. I did 4500 miles last week riding from Dallas to Durango on an 1100 miles SS1000. I didn't notice any issues with the tires during these highway miles. The next day I pushed 500 more miles out of the bike and me, riding from Durango to Glenwood Springs. It was a great ride...but I noticed handling issues making right hand turns. Every tar strip or imperfection on the road was being transfered through the handlebars. Left had turns were smooth and steady. I stopped for gas in Glenwood Springs and did a careful check of the tires. I found that on both tires I noticed a "seam" just off center on the right side of the tire. I hadn't noticed this seam before..but really didn't look for one. The elevation of the tire was NOT the same on the front tire. One side was higher than the other and when the bike was leaning at just the right angle you would have the tire rolling back and fouth from one side to the other...any road imperfection would amplify this effect and that's what I was feeling in the handlebar. I had a local shop take a look and they thought it would be fine to ride on but advised caution in those right hand turns. Yeah right...
When I returned to Dallas, I called Southwest Moto and they were not real helpful....first saying the miles were a problem for replacement and then simply giving me Michlin's phone number and telling me that maybe they could do something for me. Not the response I wanted. I didn't buy the tires from Michlin...I bought them from Southwest Moto Tire.
I called Michlin and at first was optimistic. The first rep was helpful but advised that I was going to have to talk to another guy who "knew about the seam issue". Uh oh....
The "right guy" called backed and wasn't as positive. I felt like the entire story wasn't being disclosed.
Here's what I got:
The tires are a silicone base. The bike isn't grounded on a silicone tire. Michlin imbeds a carbon fiber element and that is what this "seam" is all about. Michlin says we put it in there to ground the bike so when you fill gas sparks aren't an issue. Ok...fine...but....
I think they may be having an issue with this seam. At least one guy at Michlin indicated they "knew" about this seam issue.
So be careful. Make sure when you receive Pilot Roads that you have a good tire. No elevation differences from one side of the carbon fiber wrap to the other side.
Michlin is making me jump through hoops now. I had to take the bike to the local dealer that mounted the tires and confirm that I'm telling them the truth. The dealer had to call them and they weren't thrilled about taking the time to have a tech check the bike and then justify to Michlin that the tire was a bad egg.
I'll call Michlin on Monday to see what the final disposition will be.

I'll keep you all posted.

Check your tires before you pay to have them mounted. I'll probably be out the mounting fee.

Forest

[uptoblackwood]

A bit more..sorry.
This seam is off the center of the tire on the right side as you sit the bike. It runs the circum. of the tire. It's easy to see after the tire take a bit of road dirt...but when new you may not even notice it's there. Run your fingers from the center line of the tire, back and forth over the right side. Note any differences in elevation over the seam.
I'll try to post a few images in the next few days. My camera isn't so good on Macro but I'll give it a try so you can all see what I'm trying to say. ;-)

[Biddyman]

Charlie,
Curt did have that seam on his first set. I don't know if he mentioned it in his report. Putt found it on the Galena ride we did last year.

[Caper]

I noticed the same seam on the front tire on my 1200 Bandit, it puzzled me but did not seem to affect the handling in any way. I kept a close eye on it just in case.

[uptoblackwood]

The seam is ONLY on the right side of the tire. I was told by two people at Michlin that it's a carbon fibre wrap and was related to grounding the bike. I may not have mentioned it...but it's in the same position (right of center) on the rear tire as well....but no uneveness issues on the back tire.

Forest

[crazykz]

I did notice something on mine that looked like a seam but I did not resolve it to be that. I looked more like it was just where the molds came together. I have not had the issue though that you're talking about with any of the PR's that I've run. Guess I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

Curt

[nm6r]

I just received and mounted a new set of Pilot Roads. The mold lines are visible. They alternate from side to side of center. This issue does not sound at all like mold lines.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[uptoblackwood]

Ok guys...I put up two images with the seam. You may have to enlarge them to see the image clearly. I don't know exactly how to show them in a post...maybe one of you guys can put up a post with the link.

Thanks,
Forest

[uptoblackwood]

hahaha
Sorry...they are in the gallery section.....

[Biddyman]

From what I remember, it looks like the same thing Curt had.

[uptoblackwood]

Thanks Charlie...

The difference in elevation from one side of this seam and the other...is enough to cause control issues on right hand turns. At least on my bike and with this particular tire. It may vary from tire to tire and it must as several have stated that they didn't have a problem.
I guess I just bought a bad tire.

Forest

[uptoblackwood]

I want to add something about this tire. I took the bike up to 142 mph before I realized I had this issue with the tire. All seemed ok on straight line riding on the hwy. I experienced the wobble at high speeds that many have talked about. I had been up at these speeds many times on the OEM tires without a single incident of wobble. I experimented over and over, bringing the bike up to 100 and back down and in each try the wobble would start at about 70 mph and get worse the faster I pushed. It got dicey at about 100 and nothing I did would correct the problem. The air I was riding throught was "clean" and very still. Air temps. were in the 70's. I am convinced that the wobble was also related to this tire. I have notified Michlin about this as well. It ticked me off.....and I'm easy going 99% of the time.

Forest

[Coop]

I have 8100 miles on my PR's and have not experienced any problems with them. Hopefull, I will wear them out someday and can put on another set.

[Stash247]

If I had such an issue, the first thing I would do is get off those tires!
Blaine, at SW Moto Tire, sells 'em, not builds 'em, and so, is not the guy to see about defects; he's an honest man, but runs a high volume, low margin business, and that's likely why you bought from him in the first place!
E-mail him, and order a set of Avon Azaro's- AV46/45, and get those pilots off the bike! Wobbles at speed, uncertain handling, etc, are not real high on my "Rider Safety" list.
FWIW, I'm on my third set of Avons, and have nothing but praise for them; the set now on the ST 1100 has 11k, and looks like they will do the same 18-20 K the last set did.
Admittedly, my riding is considered a bit conservative, by some, seldom above 100 mph, or sideways, but these are among the best tires I've found in 40+ years riding, for sport touring. They are not track day tires, but will give you no problems, on the highway, and excellent mileage, for the dollar.
Terry

[crazykz]

I may have the same thing but it's hard to tell. I've got flat spots after 10000+ miles of interstate which makes it hard to tell because the flat spot ends right about at the seam you're referring to.

I don't really have turning issues either way but then again I tend to just ride and not worry about but if you're expierencing an issue that makes your riding unpredictable though I would consider changing them out for a new set or a different tire.

The PR's fit my bill for reliability but I'll start paying more attention in my turns and see if I expierence the same thing at some point.

Curt

[MMOB]

Some that ride mostly interstates straight up seem to like the Pilot Roads. I'm convinced they are not near as good as AV45/46's or even BT020F's for those that want a good combination distance and sport tire. They don't wear any better than Avons and they are not near as grippy leaned over. It takes more work to get them leaned over. Can't figure out why they cost more either.

SWM is great to do business with, as long as nothing goes wrong. If it does, it really doesn't matter who is at fault, at that point you are a liability. As a liability you don't get their attention. It might take weeks to get a problem resolved, and it won't be to your satisfaction.

Hypothetically, I'm not sure why a retailer that sold a bad product should not be held accountable. The problem these days is no one is accountable.

[crazykz]

I always thought that the Avon's wore out a little faster than the PR's. I haven't run them so I can't say but I don't know if anyone I've seen so far run them as an LD setup.

Curt

[GRN]

Mine have this seam. Off-center and wearing asymmetrically. There's a definite bump where it is, and the end-on profile clearly shows that the tread width is not smoothly arced.

Ditto...

Have seam, it's on the right edge of a roughly 1" high spot in the center of the tire. The left side is far more worn yielding a small transition, the right side where the seam is has much less wear, and a much harder transition.

:confused:

[Coop]

My next set of PR's arrived today. Don't new tires smell good!

[nm6r]

I'm duplicating my post from another Pilot Roads thread (http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12950&highlight=pilot+road)...

They have got to be one of the worse handling tires ever. They have changed my ST from quick steering to heavy steering. Don't even get me started on how they slip and slide on tar snakes like I've never experienced, even the old tar snakes that I've never had a tire slip on. The howling is pretty bad too.

I can see where some guys like them. The steering is so heavy it gives a feeling of stability. That might be fine for a lot of freeway riding but I am looking for much more from my tires. I can hardly wait to switch back to the Bridgestones. What really torques me off is that I was really optimistic giving the Pilot Roads a try with the praise I kept hearing about them.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[uptoblackwood]

The more I ride them....and the longer Michlin fails to respond....the more I don't like these tires. What is the deal with the response over tar snakes? In my case, I thought I just got a bad tire. I know it isn't right...but now it seems that many have experienced this handling issue with bumps on the road.

[MMOB]

Its not just tar snakes. The front tends to slip on damp surfaces too.

I keep them aired up at 42/44.

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=132718&postcount=19

[dduelin]

It's funny how we perceive the "same" experiences far differently. I don't share these views of the PR's and I avoid straight roads as much as possible. I really like the PR's and would not go back to the OEM Bridgestones.

During a recent 900+ mile through the mountains I encountered this road sign on a wet road. Around the next blind curve there had been a recent fuel oil spill, but the road department thoughtfully sanded the road through the curve! Wet, oily, sanded road. Rock on Pilot Roads. Wet or dry I feel nothing but confidence on these tires. I'm sorry that others have had a bad experience with these tires but I do not share the same disappointment in the PR's. I, for one, would not entertain mounting another set of 020's after the cupping, assymetric wear, and twitchy turn-in I experienced with mine.

[uptoblackwood]

Not that I'm advocating the 020's...but I didn't have any cupping or assymetrical wear on my OEM's. The went 13,000 solid miles and I could have pushed a few more out but needed to change them before a long trip.

[dduelin]

I guess I ride a little harder on the tires, my 020's might have gone 8 or 9,000 miles if it was just a function of tread wear and I didn't mind the cupping on the left side of center. I pulled them off at 6400 miles.

[Bones]

What really torques me off is that I was really optimistic giving the Pilot Roads a try with the praise I kept hearing about them.


Ray, I wrote a lot of those posts and, like Curt, wrote a detailed review (http://webpages.charter.net/scottawilliams/tirereview.htm) after receiving a no-cost set of PRs from a Michelin distributor in exchange for our opinions in writing. Many others have added their opinions, both positive and negative, on these tires. As I invested a lot of time recording my experience and writing my review, I have followed the discussion closely.

Most of the negatives expressed about PRs have been on the noise, which I devoted a section to in my review. There have also been many comments regarding their turn in performance, viewed by some as slow and as linear by others. Given what you have described as your preferences -- most notably fast turn in -- I am surprised you'd consider PRs in the first place.

All of this seems to prove the point of the opening sentence in my review:
"Ask a dozen motorcyclists about tires and you're likely to get a dozen distinct opinions."

[uptoblackwood]

Bone,

I'll be happy to write up my experience with the Pilot Roads when all is said and done.
Purchase, mounting, companies and their response to the issue and a detailed report on the performance of the tire that I'm dealing with. It may be just this one tire...but I think it's important to note that not every tire "cooked in 24 minutes" is coming off the grill with equal success.

Forest

[nm6r]

I didn't read the review as I wasn't aware of it. Probably because I was happy with my tires at the time and wasn't interested. I did however read the more recent posts and was taken by the praise of 'handling'. Honestly, the only reason I gave them a try is because the oem Bridgestones are on backorder, still. Given the track record of the Dunlops, I opted to give the Pilot Roads a try because they were my only other choice for a non-steel belted tire.

I didn't realize some riders consider the lack of handling a good thing. Nor did I realize just how unnerving and possibly dangerous the Pilot Roads are on (even old, not slippery) tar snakes. The howling is something I could live with or at least deal with.

I've read comments about the Bridgestones giving a twitchy turn-in or wandering in the lane. That makes me laugh. The quick steering found on the ST is an asset and should not be lost in tires that have poor road manners or criticized just because a rider isn't capable. I ride my ST as the performance machine it is and demand the same from the tires. BTW, I've never experienced any twitchyness or wandering in over 40k miles.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[Bones]

Forest, please do write up your experience and add it to the knowledge base.

[ccryder]

I just removed my 1st set of PR's after 7,500 miles (note: I removed them early because of my 7k trip starting on the 17th of June, probably had 1200-1600 miles remaining). I was very happy with their overall handling wet and dry, snakes or not. Even dirty air dancing was greatly reduced compared to the Avon's or the B-stones. I have not tried the Z6 yet, but that may happen this year.

I had another set of PR's installed as of last night, and I'll be ready for another set of tires by mid July. This year will be 4 sets of tires for me.

Time4Lunch
Neil S.