scraping pegs on turns you don't know

[Carl_T]

Just a little training vid, for those who care nothing of scraping pegs in turns they both don't know and can't see all the way around.

Also a good training vid for why overmuch back brake use mid turn hurts.

MAN did this guy get away lucky! He landed in the only possible place for a pretty decent outcome. That, along with the fact the guy whom got passed in his own lane didn't stop and beat the rest of the stuffing out of him.

Long in the tooth beginning but a good reminder video non the less. Play scrape the pegs when you have familiar, clear, high vizibility turns in deserted areas or in parking lots.

.http://www.supportforcomputers.com/mc/tempvideo/PalyHighSide6-3-06.wmv

[EagleSix]

...and he didn't get run over by the rest of his group who apparently were smarter and better prepared for the road than he was...oh well sh/t happens when your past your edge!!
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[HankSTer]

wow - painfully slow download when I tried it. First it was 2k per sec, then it made it to 3, then 4, after a couple of minutes.

So if I waited it may have only taken 2 hrs to download :eek: I'll try again later, sounds interesting.

[blueSTormer]

That would be a fractured left wrist! I can see the dorsal angulation. Time for the Orthopaedic surgeon.

[Tiny]

That would be a fractured left wrist! I can see the dorsal angulation. Time for the Orthopaedic surgeon.
No, it appears high enough to be set for 4-6 weeks...no surgery needed most likely! A few cm lower and we need an OS consult!

[Tiny]

Anyone able to ID the bike he passed? 2 up, looks scooterish. They had the dignity to stop after his inane pass....credit to them.

[mshihrer]

No, it appears high enough to be set for 4-6 weeks...no surgery needed most likely! A few cm lower and we need an OS consult!
ooooh, it's gonn ahurt to fix it, I bet...I broke my wrist when I was a kid, and man o man did it hurt when they reset it..

[EdsST]

I was trying to figure out exactly what he did wrong - beside the obvious of being too hot into the corner and on a bad line because of the pass.

What else do you guys see that he did wrong?

[HankSTer]

ahhhhh nada.

too hot and bad line sums it up.

Even on a better line he may have been too hot. If you pause and play the vid to just before he high sides, can see he's very very leaned, could be too much on even the absolute best line.

[zoomzoomzoom]

Was there anything that he could have done after the rear broke free?

[HankSTer]

Other then praying? naaaa...

well there is the "I hope I wore clean underware" thing, you know, for the hospital visit.

Bet if they were clean they weren't for long :eek:

[ST Nut]

I think he braked in the corner, lean looks good to me. His brake light was on in the middle. That rocked, way cool highside!!!

[LandRover]

After looking at the tape a few times, I wonder if maybe he could've released the brake, and *perhaps* saved it. Hard for me to tell ....

I have to wonder his skill level ... I am not at a point were I would be comfortable trying a move like that myself ....

[EdsST]

I showed it to a friend whoraces and his summary is -that he was trail braking, upon releasing his brake he applied throttle to abruptly - felt that he should have trailed braked a little more then smoother throttle.

I thought he was braking because he was swinging wide, the skid starts as he releases his brakes (cause or effect)?

[HankSTer]

What I see is him braking when he realized he was too hot. He wasn't trailing the brake into the corner scrubing off speed, he started braking in the corner, at full lean, when the available traction is at a minimum, if there's any.

It looks to me like he released the brake when he started sliding. He may have low sided if he'd kept it applied.

Other then that I got nothing else, except that the whole problem started by not following the basic "slow and look" 'prior to' the turn, and don't roll on until you've judged the correct speed for the radius. As he's accelerating and approaching the turn, passing his friend, he should have been slowing, until he could judge the proper speed. Never did that. Basically just too hot for that radius.

edited to change to 'prior to', just wanted to make myself clear.

IMHO ofcourse,

[EagleSix]

If you play the clip frame by frame backwards, you can see the slide started just before he released the brake. General rule is, if braking when the rear breaks loose, keep the brake on and take the low side to avoid a high side. The angle of the curve in the video is deceiving, but it appears the apex of the turn extended across the road, would be a point at about the middle of the skid marks. If he held the brakes on I think the low side would have put him and bike into the guard rail hard. It appears, through the skid, and position of the bike through the turn, it never went out of the white line. There is some pavement outside the white line he had to work with, not a lot, but some. If he had held his line without the hard braking, he might have made it, not likely just too much speed and not enough traction. At the speed of travel there was little time to react, the guard rail was coming up really quick. Guard rails and drop offs have a way of inducing panic, I know it would have in me! For sure at that speed, time for thought, had ended and good, or bad, reactions took place. I think a more experienced and skilled rider would have made this turn with ease, because they wouldn’t have made the pass like he did in the first place and let the bike get ahead of them! As Carl pointed out, all-and-all a pretty good outcome and perhaps luck was on his side…

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[Tiny]

It was a wreck, plain and simple.....made embarrassing by the fact he made an illegal (and RUDE!) pass and it was all caught on tape. I don't think he was trail braking, I think he took his eyes off his unusual line to glance back at the guy he passed and when he looked up he panicked and got on the brake!
You can't always ride it out: My worst wreck came from riding it out and I clipped the edge of the hard-ball at full lean and then high-sided.

[Northeast Rider]

Was there anything that he could have done after the rear broke free?





Yes - the rear broke free long b/4 he went down. I was amazed he rode it as long as he did. With the benefit of hindsight, I would have chosen to low side it. (full rear brake).

[Britman]

Quite simply I reckon he f'ed up by showboating for the camera. His buddies behind him were going much slower, thankfully, or there would have been another 2 down.

The turn also tightened up and then it looked like the right hander coming up next was tighter than the left he wrecked on although hard to tell from camera mans perspective.

You can see the same riding techniques at Deals Gap any weekend. Wonder more people don't wreck there.

[Prometheus4given]

Classic High-Side Fall
Tried to trail brake, locked the rear and skidded and when he released it the bike straightened and launched him over the right side of the bike; luckily for him the second part of a high side didn't ensue namely the bike following and landing on top of him.
He's lucky it was only a broken wrist.

[G-MAN]

What I see is him braking when he realized he was too hot. He wasn't trailing the brake into the corner scrubing off speed, he started braking in the corner, at full lean, when the available traction is at a minimum, if there's any.

It looks to me like he released the brake when he started sliding. He may have low sided if he'd kept it applied.

Other then that I got nothing else, except that the whole problem started by not following the basic "slow and look" 'prior to' the turn, and don't roll on until you've judged the correct speed for the radius. As he's accelerating and approaching the turn, passing his friend, he should have been slowing, until he could judge the proper speed. Never did that. Basically just too hot for that radius.

edited to change to 'prior to', just wanted to make myself clear.

IMHO ofcourse,

I have to agree with Hankster on this one. If you notice when he left the brake the bike started to lift (my opinion) controllable for a split second just before it catipulted him over the high side. He should have known he was going down and in order to low side he would need to switch from steering to counter-steering shoving the left handle toward the pavement.

I think he is pretty lucky - he could have gone over or into the gardrail.

[Prometheus4given]

The problem with this particular accident is several fold.
First, he is headed downhill (huge momentum) and carrying to much speed for his comfort level.
If he had gotten the bike straight and broke hard then re-entered his turn this accident likely doesn't occur but he's on camera.
He trail brakes and begins to lock it up the rear now almost immediately has 20% of its braking capacity and begins to slide around to his right. By the time he 'perseves' he is skidding IMHO I think its too late and his only option, IMHO the better option was to have ridden the bike to ground and low sided the bike. Watch any number of high side fall accidents and you will see that once the bike has reached the 'high side slide' it is immediate when the brake is released. There is no control possible at that moment and likely one of the tragic opinions this rider had at that moment ("I can control this slide"). It is all physics at that point and the better thought might be "sliding rear tire? Ride it out; even if it takes you to ground".

At least in a low side fall the bike isn't launched into the air as a trailing 600# hammer waiting for you to stop rolling so it can land on you. Like a bad scene out of a 'Road Runner' cartoon and we play the 'wile e. coyote'.

I this kids problem was that he believed 2 things: one he could control the corner with rear braking (maybe on a level track but not down a mountain with a significant incline) and two that lowsiding the bike in a skid is worse than looking bad on camera or high siding.

[Bigfish]

My "Munday quarterback" opinion follows what has mostly been said already. The pass at the beginning of the curve put forced him into a bad line at his speed for starters. It was all downhill after that. I think he chose to try and save it, but in reallity he should of kept on trail braking for a low side on the rail. He seems to have come out of this pretty well. I believe this guy had more damage that what is realized in the vid. A gaurdrail body slam is ugly even with leathers.

[BigTom]

Yahoo! A fairly classic high side. Looks to me like he had back brake lock better than a bike length, when he released it spit him right off. A rare instance where the high side may have been better than the low side. The guard rail and/or a serious fall were waiting for the low side slide. A broken wrist may have been a cheap price.

Per Carl, a good instruction about the perils of high speed road work. Perfect technique may have saved him, but how many are perfect every time? How many are perfect 1 out of 10?

And, these are not rocket scientists. Looking at the shifter/peg mess, he says "I can just heat this with a torch....." Not likely on aluminum, I don't think. May have been able to pry and bend enough to get it home, but aluminum usually only bends once.

This thing was really slow loading for me, too. I am wireless, and it took about 40 minutes. I had tried it a couple of times and lost patience, finally let it run while I took my shower and putzed around this morning. I'm glad I did.

[Burger]

I've made the video a bit smaller (5.9mb down from 35) and stuck it on my own server so it should load a bit faster for people.

Click Here (http://www.dandmbr.co.uk/files/PalyHighSide6-3-06_1.wmv)

If it's no better, let me know and I'll remove it and this message.

Regards,

[BigTom]

Much better, Burger. Thanks, I didn't need another shower today....

[timmybob4]

It's hard to tell for sure, but from the brief shot of the front tire it appears to be a few thousand miles beyond replacement time. Perhaps the rear is the same. This could have contributed to the too hot, bad line, and heading downhill notes made earlier. His abrupt line change around the other rider didn't exactly follow Reg Pridmore's "being smooth" technique either.