How do they really compare?

[bygdawg]

Honda ST 1300 VS BMW K 1200 GT

What's your .02 on the better machine and why?

[UNTMatt]

Honda ST 1300 VS BMW K 1200 GT

What's your .02 on the better machine and why?


Two different types of sport touring.

My personal opinion is the GT is more like the VFR than the ST. The ST counterpart is the RT.

Both are good bikes although I've not ridden the BMW I've heard good things. I only have two things against BMW. One is the outragous price tag they carry. Second, is the maintanence cost and schedule. If those don't bother you, they make excellent bikes.

The GT is going to be faster and more nimble. I believe it has a more agressive riding position. Go see if you can get a demo ride at the local BMW dealership and see how you like it yourself.

[John Anthony]

I'll be taking the GT for a test drive late this year, but I don't expect to buy one. The more I ride my ST, the more I like it. I retire for the last time next year and plan to do a number of distance rides. ST is just made for it.

John

[bygdawg]

I thought the GT had adjustable handlebar height. With a grand total of 1.6 inches of travel upward from its lowest position, the bars require nothing more than a simple Allen wrench to loosen two bolts. I would have thought this would have given the bike a less aggressive riding position if one wanted it. I think the jury is still out on how much of the 152 hp at 9,500 rpm and 96 lbs./ft. torque at 7,750 rpm at the crank actually makes its way to the rear tire. I'm very impressed by the BMW's Duolever front suspension setup and look to learn more about it. Of course, we are yet to see what, if anything, Honda does with the 2007 model, but I do think the bar has been raised. In response, I think Honda will have to step up once again. As always, time will tell.

[Bones]

The bar adjustment seems to be just bling. They do adjust vertically, but I didn\'t see any way to adjust the angle at the grips or to adjust the postion relative to the rider (more forward or rearward).
As the bars move up they move back simultaneously. Three settings, as I recall from the NYC Cycle World Show.

The BMW appears to have a nice smooth and powerful motor in a good looking package. I'm not as sold as some people on BMW's front end designs, though I do like the factory cruise and heated grips and seat. I'm on the same page as RC with + and - for the two.

I still wonder how BMW justifies its price premium. Looks like close to 50% more out the door than an ST w/ABS. If I liked it 50% more, I'd be tempted but I could not consider a GT without platform riding boots or surgical leg lenghtening. The "low" seat is still too tall for me.

[Bones]

I sat on the one in NYC, which the BMW guy said was standard seat at lowest setting and I was barely touching tip-toed. The low seat would have to be 2.5 or 3 inches lower to let me stand flat footed. Maybe it has to do with the shape of the seat. An ST1300 with a Corbin or Sargent seat has the same height as the stock seat, but the shape of the seat means my feet won't touch flat, at least on the ones I've tried. Best to sit on the BMW, I expect. Better yet, take it for a ride!

[UNTMatt]

It's not my fault they put an opposing twin on the RT. :p:

You right on with the 'busa or XX. I think Honda needs to step it up with the VFR. Larger V4 and shaft drive would make a perfect counterpart to the GT. At a much lower price point and better service interval.

One more pro for the ST:

MUCH lower cost of ownership.

[yellow wolf]

i cant really say but i did pass a cpl of both bikes last week and they got smaller at the same rate in my mirrors? hope that helps---:D

[Bones]

Hey, Charlie, I was cleaning up in the garage while the oil was draining from my ST and I came across the BMW all models guide. K1200GT seat height is listed as 32.28 inches and 33.07. Any idea how much the lower seat reduces those figures?

[bygdawg]

i cant really say but i did pass a cpl of both bikes last week and they got smaller at the same rate in my mirrors? hope that helps---:D


Thanks that does help. I should have no problem with the ST making them get small then, right??? :-)

[nm6r]

Hey, Charlie, I was cleaning up in the garage while the oil was draining from my ST and I came across the BMW all models guide. K1200GT seat height is listed as 32.28 inches and 33.07. Any idea how much the lower seat reduces those figures?


That explains why the K1200GT felt so tall when I sat on one.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[John Anthony]

OK, so here's the scoop from someone who just rode one today. Maggie and I got it for a couple of hours tonight plus tomorrow AM until 9:00 when the shop opens. We put about 100 miles on it tonight in all kinds of driving conditions. Knowing my wife, she'll be up at the crack of dawn and rack up another couple of hours on it.

No surprises on power and cornering. 1200 definitely has an edge on the former, although I didn't notice that much difference on the latter. The 1200 has a more solid feel in the front end and seems "stickier" for most of the riding. Just feels a bit more solid. Contrary to some of the reports, neither my wife nor I had any problem manuvering at slow speed. Redline is 10.2K vs. 8.5K for the ST, but I noticed vibration around 6K that was somewhat disconcerting. Maggie didn't notice it at all during her ride. Even in 6th gear, the 1200 was pulling 3.5K RPMs at about 60 MPH which is pretty comparable to the ST. But keep in mind you've got another 2K or so RPM at the high end with the 1200. Great brakes. Would love to get this out on the Autobahn

Stock seat and windshield both suck pretty bad, the latter being significantly worse than the ST, for me in any position. I also didn't like the mirrors. They're small and look cheesy.

The 1200 is definitely lighter and the center of gravity seems slower, so my guess is, it won't be dropped as often as the ST. But the bad news, and in my mind the really bad news, is that if you drop it, you're likely to incure major damage to everything on the side of the bike that goes down. Both the shift lever for the tranny and the kickstand were awkward to deal with and the tranny makes a distinct clunking sound in every gear.

Neither Maggie nor I were overwhelmingly impressed by the display. It does show a lot of information and it's layed out well, but the LCD is difficult to read during the day, particularly in the sunlight, and worse than the ST. Gets a bit better at night. I've had my vision enhanced and didn't have too much of a problem, but Maggie has +2 diopter reading glasses and couldn't see much at all.

In the lowest setting the seat height was comparable to the ST in its lowest setting.

The difference in price between what I can get for my '03 ST and one of these puppies out the door would be in the $14-15K range, and for me, the bang for the buck ratio doesn't warrant it. Maggie is still sitting on the fence, but I've told her she needs to sell both her ST and Harley Road Master first.

Questions????

John

[bygdawg]

Wow! Great write up. I know the bike is lighter than the ST, but what did you think about the power difference between the two? I think you just reconfirmed what I was already thinking. It's going to be hard to beat the ST for me. With more comfort and more wind protection, the FJR would probably be more of a sensible choice for me, but the ST does both better and doesn't sacrifice much in the HP dept. doing it. I still think she could lose a little weight, but hey, so could I. LOL That's just something I'll live with. At least she doesn't get tossed around too bad if it gets a little windy out.

[John Anthony]

Wow! Great write up. I know the bike is lighter than the ST, but what did you think about the power difference between the two? I think you just reconfirmed what I was already thinking. It's going to be hard to beat the ST for me. With more comfort and more wind protection, the FJR would probably be more of a sensible choice for me, but the ST does both better and doesn't sacrifice much in the HP dept. doing it. I still think she could lose a little weight, but hey, so could I. LOL That's just something I'll live with. At least she doesn't get tossed around too bad if it gets a little windy out.
There is no question the GT has more power than the ST, but it seems like you'd be spending quite a bit more money to get something you probably wouldn't use all that often. While on the freeway, in 2nd or 3rd, I can't remember which, I cranked it open and got up to 80 or so awfully quickly. Sure it was fun. But was it that much more fun than doing essentially the same thing in an ST? I've never been in a passing situation where I felt like the ST didn't give me plenty of power and control to handle the situation.

If Maggie decides to get one, I'll encourage her to provide a more detailed post. She has a lot of good insights on bikes and I think you'd find her perspective valuable.

In terms of comparable bikes, in my mind, it's a much closer call between an ST and FJR than between either of them and a GT.

John

[Horst]

this is getting old now, but ...

"I still wonder how BMW justifies its price premium..."

a few things .... BMW's are made in Germany, costs are high ... BMW sees itself as the top sport tourer, and prices itself accordingly ... the low US dollar (!) is partly to blame ... in Europe, price is even :eek:

ride like the wind .... :D

[Spencer]

Go here:

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/clasqm/bmw.html

and you can read EVERY article written on the new K bikes worldwide not just
American magazines.
I prefer the New Zealand magazines, they are brutal in their testing and don't
seem to have any specific brand loyalty like the US mags do.
Overall they feel it's not as good as the Japanese bikes.
Phrases like "vague power delivery", "heavy steering", "rough, prototype feel"
in many of the write ups.
Then there is the one journalist/rider that had to brake hard entering an unfamiliar turn
and the ABS completely disengaged the brakes, went full, then
disengaged again causing him to guardrail the bike.
Made my decision real easy to follow my first instinct and stick with Mother Honda.

[MTPOCKITS]

Find A BMW shop when you out on the road away from home broke, far and few to be found, first hand at that.

[Horst]

you guys just hate BMW .... :rolleyes:

there is a reason why the GS is the no. 1 choice for 'round the world' types ...

try finding an ST1300 part in Africa or South America .... :eek:

BMW dealers around the globe .... :D

(I owned one and may own again ... you never know ... )

[clickr]

As the bars move up they move back simultaneously. Three settings, as I recall from the NYC Cycle World Show.

The BMW appears to have a nice smooth and powerful motor in a good looking package. I'm not as sold as some people on BMW's front end designs, though I do like the factory cruise and heated grips and seat. I'm on the same page as RC with + and - for the two.

I still wonder how BMW justifies its price premium. Looks like close to 50% more out the door than an ST w/ABS. If I liked it 50% more, I'd be tempted but I could not consider a GT without platform riding boots or surgical leg lenghtening. The "low" seat is still too tall for me.


My next bike purchase will be my last----have had over half a dozen different bikes in the last 30 years.

I have ridden the ST1300 twice (demo) and went to Columbus Ohio BMW dealer this past weekend. They have one K1200GT.

Sat on it -did not have time to demo - even with the stock seat in the lowest position I had more foot on the ground than the '06 ST. BMW even has a "lower seat" as an option - did not ask to see it - as told it was padded differently and was lower than the stock seat.

Just sitting on the bike, the center of gravity is much lower - engine has a dry sump and the cyliners are inclined at 55 degrees. Farings come off with several screws and removing the fairing does not interfere with the top parts.

The valve check clearance is done by computer and was told if the bike was not driven too agressively (times at red line) the valves adjustment probably never would be needed.

Rear drive is "permanently sealed for life", no splines to grease. The font suspension doesn't use tube springs nothing to shim. etc. Brake dive is almost non-existant I am told as is the shaft - rise on the rear end. Really liked the built in cruise - and other options and dealer installed options available over the do it yourself Farkle's. Considering the time and $'s and effort to install cruise, heated seats, grips, (both have computer, both have movable windscreen) ESA three position rear shock adjustment - nice, and lower seat option, and ajustable bars, seem to even out the price difference.



Justifying the extra $8k or $9k may be a hard thing to do. Huge selling point is the BMW dealer offered for my wife and I to take it for a spin. No Honda dealer close to where I live will offer this (cash out the door - no return policy).

I guess I will have to wait on the '07 St and see what it has to offer. When I get ready - $$$$'s, deciding on the St or the K1200GT will be hard.

The wife wanted a ST for me and a Silverwing for her. After seeing the GT, she said she would sacrafice her Silverwing - she said the rear seat on the GT felt much more comfortable than the ST.

Only wish I could rent a ST and a GT each for a week - then make a decision.


Cheers. to all...

[B727AV8R]

I got to ride the ST1300 and BMW k1200GT down at the AMA conference in Athens, GA last month. You wouldnt go wrong with either bike. Only reason going with the Honda is dealer support. Even though its a BMW, its still a machine, and can break down. I dont want to be in the middle of no were, and the nearest BMW dealer is 200 miles away. There are Honda dealers just about in every town.

[Trekker]

You can try to get to a rally where Honda & BMW are offering test rides.
And... I know one of the Eagle Rider Rentals in Knoxville has ST1300's.
You may be able to find a rental shop closer to home.