Another FPR Question...

[Elmo]

I've been reading the posts on the FPR and most of the talk is about the unit from Turbo City. Is this the only "brand"? Are there other types and if so, what are the differences? My goal is to eliminate the "jerky" throttle response at low speed in 1st gear (parking lots, traffic lights, stop signs, etc...)

Thanks,

Elmo

[racer1735]

As far as I know, the unit from Turbo Tom is the only aftermarket FPR on the market. It greatly aids the maladies you mention. Having properly adjusted throttle cables is a must, too.

[Byron]

I really don't want to be splitting hairs here but just to keep things right. His FPR's are Honda Factory units that he has adjusted the pressure setting on. Based on your bike configuration he will provide an FPR with the pressure set to best fit the bike.

[JZH]

Interesting...I had noticed that it was a Keihin (an OEM supplier to Honda) units but had thought TT had simply sourced a different-spec version from Keihin. For academic purposes, I would be interested in learning how the FPR was modified...which could mean that a whole new FPR is not actually necessary?

Ciao,

[racer1735]

TT modifies the FPR to allow a slightly higher fuel flow (psi), depending on what modifications you've done to your engine (intake/exhaust). The stock setting has a relatively low fuel flow and the modified version provides the fuel injectors with a higher flow of fuel. I don't think the average home mechanic could modify his/her FPR themselves.

[JZH]

I don't think the average home mechanic could modify his/her FPR themselves.I take it you know how it was modified, then? You may very well be correct, but I never just assume I can't do something!

But I am a bit miffed, because I was never asked about any optional settings available when I ordered mine. I have a K&N air filter, and intend to fit aftermarket exhausts, so I hope it works...

Ciao,

[Byron]

JZH,

When you received you FPR it was probably a 58 or 59 lb. setting. According to Tom it handles a wide range of conditions compared to the 50 lb. setting from the factory. In my case I told Tom I had the K&N air filter and I had my exhaust pipes coated by Jet-Hot and I wasn't planning on changing the mufflers. He provided me with a FPR set at 59 lbs.. Well it worked great from my point of view. Then someone posted some Staintunes that I just couldn't turn down so I bought them and added them to the mix. The bike seems to run even better now. I haven't noticed any issues since installing the mufflers. I talked to Tom about it at this last weekends Tech Session at his shop. I wanted him to know how things were running and if the addition of the mufflers would have changed his recommendation of lb setting for the FPR. That's when he told me that the 58 - 59's were an average for most bikes and with the mufflers a 60 - 62 lb setting would have been suggested. He also said that if I felt I needed the readjustment he would do it. Like I said, I haven't felt there was a need so my 59 will probably be there for some time.

Hope this helps,

[JZH]

That helps, thanks. I'll just have to wait and see how it actually works with my bike's mods...

Ciao,

[Lager]

Thats how he does it!! I thought so,, Will I ever tell? Nope !This is part of Turbo Toms business.;)

[JZH]

There will always be a bit of a conflict between consumers and businesses when they interract in a forum such as this, but to my mind the result of that conflict should always be in favor of us, the riders. Accordingly, I feel no obligation to keep anyone's business secrets--no matter how friendly and supportive they have been to the group in the past.

If someone decides to use this forum to market their products and services, fine, I wish them every success. But I think there is a big difference between providing a valuable product, or performing a valuable service, and playing keep-away with a piece of information that could easily be used by any of us free of charge. Yes, in the real world, entire businesses are based on trade secrets (the formula for CocaCola, for example), but this is a forum built on the sharing of information, a function I think can be incompatible with preserving the business secrets of our business members.

The sharing of information, to me, seems a reasonable trade-off for having free access to a large group of ideal potential customers... Of course, this is not my forum, and I don't write the rules for it, so just take this as "my policy" regarding useful information that I acquire, either through my own efforts or those of others: I will likely share it. (I've also never taken kindly to those eBay sellers who sell "information" about freeware applications (e.g., OpenOffice), or who sell unauthorized copies of copyrighted material, either.)

As for Turbo Tom's FPR, like I said, I was surprised to learn that it was simply a tweaked OEM unit. That prompted my question about how, exactly, it was tweaked. I still don't know, but I would surmise that he attaches it to a calibrated pressure measuring device and then adjusts it, using its existing calibration device, to the new pressure. If the "value-added" in this process is (as I suspect) the use of a sophisticated measuring device that only a specialist would have, then IMHO that is something that need not be kept secret: we'd still need him to perform the service. But if the process were (and I'm just using this as a hypothetical example--I know this is not the case here) to simply move a spring from position 1 to position 2, then I'd probably be slightly upset at having to spend $100 on a new unit that I didn't need, just so someone who uses the forum as a captive audience can make a buck. ;)

Ciao,

[Lager]

JZH,,rest assured, adusting the fuel pressure correctly is not an easy task and cannot be performed by the average owner.There is no such spring to move from position 1 to position 2..It takes some expensive measureing devices to get it correct, plus the knowledge of Fuel injection systems to even Think of a way to correct the problem.Thats what you are paying for ! This man has a solution for the problem that the best Honda Engineers couldnt correct or design correctly. So, pay the man,get your Improved product and enjoy your Motorcycle.
Side Note, My occupation consists of improving and redesigning Honda Automobiles.Sometimes the Corp officers accept and improve the product, most times they dont, its all up to the bean counters.;)

[Lager]

Ya know,Sometimes I wish i just kept my mouth shut !!

[JZH]

Ya know,Sometimes I wish i just kept my mouth shut !! :rolleyes:

[VNEKO]

I respectfully submit a different perspective for our consideration...

Forums -- by definition -- have served as a venue for open discussion (sharing information) and as a marketplace. Whether this forum should serve as a marketplace falls within the discretion of the owner/moderators.

Attendant problems are inevitable, but the benefits to members can --and often do -- outweigh the hassles and conflicts. There are several examples of members who took the initiative and exercised innovation to provide value (in products and information) to appreciative members.

Whether a member should share the informational secrets of a product innovation is obviously arguable, but consider that an owner/moderator's decision to permit a marketplace invites the process of enterprise.

One, almost universal, tenet of enterprise is the economic benefit of innovation. This is constitutionally established (in the USA and EU) in the form of intellectual property. Take the time and effort to develop a good idea, you not only don't have to share, you can exclusively benefit for a period of time. This promotes progress and innovation.

In the case of the FPR, it would not matter to me if it simply took a hammer to make the modification and the innovation was knowing where to hit it. The value to me is in the product's benefit. Subjectively, it's either worth it or not. We are free to make that choice.

For what it's worth, Tom took the initiative and applied his expertise and specialized equipment to perform the FPR mod. I understand he designed and built a special tool to perform the re-calibration.

But, even if it was simpler or within my ability, it would still provide value to me and I would still assign value to his expertise without obliging him to share or taking offense if he benefited economically, even within this forum.

I don't feel I'm part of a captive audience. I choose to visit, participate and buy products through this forum. My choice is based on my perceived and learned value.

I also value the the forum as it naturally defends its members from poor quality and over-priced products. It also helps me make informed decisions through the experience of other members.

Overall, I submit this amounts to a nice balancing of interests and benefits to all members; learners, buyers or sellers.

Jim

[JZH]

Oh, a special tool... :bow1:

By the way, I've just confirmed that the ST1300 FPR has not changed in design from 2002 to 2006. And the same part was first used on the "RC51"/VTR1000SP SP-1. Interesting.

Ciao,

[Lager]

JZH,So your information means what? Im lost here bro. Im Not saying your incorrect, Im just trying to correct Honda's mistake.

[JZH]

Dunno. I found it interesting because I've read that people have found no problems with the later bikes. But none of the FPR, the throttle bodies or the PGM-FI units appear to have been changed during that time. The fuel pump assembly did change, however. It would probably take an expert in fuel systems to figure this one out...

Ciao,