05 ST crash at the Gap

[Clair]

From Killboy ...

things are starting to not look good
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/55/3348/400/02467.0.jpg

larger pic
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/55/3348/1024/02467.0.jpg

Yep, this is definately not gonna be good
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/55/3348/400/02469.1.jpg

larger pic
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/55/3348/1024/02469.1.jpg

Oh man, glad he's ATGATT, that bike weighs 700 pounds or more!
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/55/3348/400/02470.0.jpg

larger pic
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/55/3348/1024/02470.0.jpg

Ah sh$t, not good at all ...
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/55/3348/400/02473.jpg

larger pic
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/55/3348/1024/02473.jpg

On my track day I was doing tight corners fairly fast without doing this. Shift that weight, slide that knee forward, press against the tank with the other knee, LOOK where you want to go, and the bike can stay more upright ...

{edited to add in the smaller pics}

[Mellow]

That sux... Hope he ended up with no injuries

[MountainTourer]

What is scraping up front? STeed STicks?

[Clair]

Looks like it to me, or something similar.

According to Killboy: "Here you can see the break-away mirror. It snapped right back on. Rider was fine, just a little rash on the calf."

Another reason for ATGATT!!

[MountainTourer]

It\'s a bit grainy, but if you magnify the pic you can barely make out \"Pilot Ro\" on the rear tire.

[Polovision]

:D Yep, those red ones are too fast for the turns!

[Mark]

looks like R.BEE for a license...can't make out the state.

Mark

[Ken]

Let's make sure these ones don't rotate into the home page :D

[hojo in sc]

I'm surprised that his left leg wasn't hurt further, like being crushed by the bike.

[EdsST]

Checkout www.killboy.com and scroll down a little way and you see an 05 caught going down by killboy - it looks like he has highway wings on his bike and that is what is dragging before he goes down:(

Hope it was nobody here - if so it seem like he came out alrigth as far as the rider goes hope that bike isn't too bad off

[sttourer]

I'm surprised that his left leg wasn't hurt further, like being crushed by the bike.

I'm betting the tip over wings helped with that.

Pat

[G-MAN]

I got an Access Denied error message from the URL - Reads like others can see the pics???? :shrug1:

[Rob Hephner]

Ug, that hurts!

[NCSam]

From Killboy ...

Oh man, glad he's ATGATT, that bike weighs 700 pounds or more!

........... He would have had some serious 'rash without it!!!

[ChipSTer]

I do like his Hang on to this it can be saved style. You have not crashed until the bike comes to a full stop.
And even then, if it can be ridden away, is it still considered a crash? :D :eek:
:cool:

[Austin city limits]

http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/55/3348/400/02467.0.jpg

Ok,,, is it just me or,,, can you ALSO,,, see,,, it looks like he has the Highway Pegs/Steed Sticks of some kind installed on his bike???

It looks as if they are the first sparks and probably the reason he went down...

I KNOW,,, that until you change over your bolt to a "Chicago" Type bolt

http://www.st-owners.com/gallery/files/1/8/6/2/MVC-012S.JPG

the bolt that is supplied,,, will,,, repeat,,, WILL be the first to touch on the Steed Sticks at least...

And,,, when that bolt hits,,, you are going to find out fast things like this can happen...

[disco1999]

Looks like he have found the point of no return, nice to know he didn't get hurt too much.

I was at the dragon (for the 1st time) last week and spotted killboy with his marked car in the middle of the 11 miles stretch, seem like he does like to hang in there all the time, he sure is always ready to take the best pictures.

[Austin city limits]

it looks like he has highway wings on his bike and that is what is dragging before he goes down

I THINK,,, it looks more like either the Steed Sticks,,, or some other version... I can not see,,, HOW,,, the Highway Wings would catch first like it did in the first shot...

[Mac]

Well, it was I, Mac who crashed.
There is a dip in the curve that caused the suspension to load and got me scraping more than I intended. The center stand in the second pic I think. Anyway, the rear tire lifted( a ME880 btw) and the rest is history.
I have a little rash on my left calf mainly because the side zipper on my firstgear pants broke and opened up. The jacket saved my arm and shoulder, I have a silver dollar size hole in the jacket shoulder, interestingly the hard armor underneath wasn't scratched. My boots gloves and helmert have no marks on them.
What really sucked was having to ride the 400+ miles home with a rashed up bike, a really sore leg and wearing sweatpants.

[Mellow]

Glad you're okay Mac... That stuff jumps up and bites us from time to time and there isn't always anything we can do about it... okay, ride slower, take a different line in the curve.. blah blah blah.. you can do everything perfect and still have an issue.

bottom line is you are okay and the bike can be fixed. And, now your crash goes down in the history books.. LOL... talk about the wrong place to crash.

Again, glad you're okay.

[Mac]

It was me.
I screwed up the corner and missed the dip which loaded the suspension causing the center stand to drag which ended up in a low side.

[Mac]

Thanks. I agonised over it the whole way home.
But the new staintunes were delivered and cheap plastic prices at service honda made me feel a bit better. Rubee will be back in around two weeks.

[beatlejuice]

It was me.
I screwed up the corner and missed the dip which loaded the suspension causing the center stand to drag which ended up in a low side.

glad your ok. ill bet that cost a few bucks eh?

[Mellow]

I know one thing, you're balls made it... no offense but anyone that crashes, gets it on camera, then admits to it has some giant cajones... LOL You're number 1 in my book...

[Mac]

I just hope its not one of the middle finger number ones you see so often.:) :D

[Pred8tor]

Really glad you're okay, Mac. Those pics gave me goose bumps. I was there in late May... I had to tell myself to back off - I wasn't racing. Seeing your pics is a good reminder of how things happen very fast on a bike!

[sherob]

Glad your OK! ;) Admitting it... huevos... huevos grande! :) How much damage did you take?

[Mac]

Glad your OK! ;) Admitting it... huevos... huevos grande! :) How much damage did you take?
Not too much. my left calf has a spot of rash about 2 x 3 inch square.
Also a nickle size bit of rash from the jacket elbow.
Good gear rules!!
Already healing and just a bit sensetive.

[Mac]

Thanks, I really need to tell myself that more often.

[sherob]

Not too much. my left calf has a spot of rash about 2 x 3 inch square.
Also a nickle size bit of rash from the jacket elbow.
Good gear rules!!
Already healing and just a bit sensetive.

Great!!!!!! Your bike OK?

[timmybob4]

Glad you're okay. Mind telling us what gear you had on?

[Mellow]

I merged these two threads since they were the same topic.

[Mark]

Not too much. my left calf has a spot of rash about 2 x 3 inch square.
Also a nickle size bit of rash from the jacket elbow.
Good gear rules!!
Already healing and just a bit sensetive.

Sensitive?... I'll bet you are! And I'm only talking about your mental state!
Glad to hear you're okay and that the bike did so well.

Yeah... the ride home and the next couple weeks will find find you re-evaluating your skills... You're up on the horse again; so, I suspect you'll get over it quickly.

Let us know what the final co$t is...

Mark

[crazykz]

It\'s a bit grainy, but if you magnify the pic you can barely make out \"Pilot Ro\" on the rear tire.

Anyway, the rear tire lifted( a ME880 btw) and the rest is history.

Pilot Roads my ***! :D So there.

Mac, I'm glad you're ok. I had to defend my tire of choice. I didn't realize how close I came to being in the same situation until I took the bike apart at TechSTOC last year. My lower are completely scraped up and there is a big scrape mark on my center stand at the point where it curves up to put you foot down on it. Anymore of a lean and I would have lifted the rear tire.

Curt

[Austin city limits]

Mac~~~

Sorry to hear this was you,,, but VERY glad you are ok... Glad to see that like already said,,, you are willing to confess to it as,,, this happens,,, and only a few will confess it... :bow1:

You will get a Moonburger and a beverage of your choice when you make it up here!!! Anybody that is this straight up,,, deserves it!!! ;)

Now,,, can you tell me something???

In the first pictures,,, it,,, LOOKS,,, like what was scraping is in FRONT,,, of your feet... Do you have the Steed Sticks or some other pegs on your bike???

Just asking as,,, we all,,, only learn,,, when something like this happens...

[tccox]

:D Yep, those red ones are too fast for the turns!

Actually he was trying to keep up with a Blue one. :rolleyes:

[Austin city limits]

Mac~~~

"After Further Review",,, it at LEAST,,, LOOKS,,, like you have or had,,, Steed Sticks on your bike,,, or,,, that little picture in your signature sure looks like something shiney from down there...

I am not saying,,, you did not hit your centerstand,,, but,,, from where the sparks are coming from from where I am setting drinking a Diet Barq's Rootbeer,,, it looks like picture # 1 is ahead of your feet... ;)

[Clair]

Oh wow! Sorry Mac, didn't know that was YOU being made famous on Killboy! Just glad you're okay! Glad your gear did it's job. Honestly, the pics look impressive ... you looked calm throug it all. Glad you and the bike were in good enough shape to ride home. Says a lot aboujt the bike!

[MountainTourer]

LOL, I was waiting for someone to post up and say there is no way even the first photo would reveal info on the tire make/model.

Gotcha. :)

Mac:

The first photo in the sequence might make for a unique and cool Avatar.


Pilot Roads my ***! :D So there.

Mac, I\'m glad you\'re ok. I had to defend my tire of choice. I didn\'t realize how close I came to being in the same situation until I took the bike apart at TechSTOC last year. My lower are completely scraped up and there is a big scrape mark on my center stand at the point where it curves up to put you foot down on it. Anymore of a lean and I would have lifted the rear tire.

Curt

[Burger]

Actually he was trying to keep up with a Blue one. :rolleyes:

:crackup

Mac, real glad you came out of it in one piece. I agree with Moutain Tourer, it would be a real cool avatar if you can bear to remember it.

Regards,

[huxtablejones]

That should buff right out of there. :p:

Glad yer not hurt man. ouch.

[illzoni]

Some nice headlights there at the end....

[mshihrer]

wow, hardcore, glad you are okay. It's amazing you held on and didn't get hurt worse. And even more amazing you have pictures of it! It's not crashing, it's falling, with style!

[Tor]

Well, it was I, Mac who crashed.
There is a dip in the curve that caused the suspension to load and got me scraping more than I intended. The center stand in the second pic I think. Anyway, the rear tire lifted( a ME880 btw) and the rest is history.
I have a little rash on my left calf mainly because the side zipper on my firstgear pants broke and opened up. The jacket saved my arm and shoulder, I have a silver dollar size hole in the jacket shoulder, interestingly the hard armor underneath wasn't scratched. My boots gloves and helmert have no marks on them.
What really sucked was having to ride the 400+ miles home with a rashed up bike, a really sore leg and wearing sweatpants.

Sure glad you're ok.......

[Mac]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. ST-Owners is a great place!! :bow1:


Now. There are highway pegs on the bike, but the dealer had them installed and I don't know the brand. It is possible he had them made special.

Yes, they were the amongst the first things to scrape and there is material missing from the nut and bolt. I have to say though, that I don't think the pegs caused the low side, sure they were scraping, but so was the center stand in the second pic. I think that was why the rear tire lifted. Well, either that or the exhaust.:eek:

Right now the total cost appears to be under 600 dollars. Many thanks to service honda for good prices and RonAyers for 2005 ST fiche. I'm getting a new mirror cover, mirror assy(glass broke), engine guard cover(duh), L middle cowl, and r. cover(not from the crash though). There is damage to the upper cowl by where the mirror mounts, but I'm going to try to repair/glue it back together. Oh and the forks are slightly twisted in the triple trees, but that is very easy to fix.
I should have the new parts in a week or so and the bike should be up and up within a few days after that. Plus I get to install my new Staintune pipes(schwing!!)

I will need a new jacket. I'll probably get another of the same kind. It was a Tour Master Cortec transition jacket. Really nice. It is a textile that has an unzippable panel which converts it into a mesh jacket. I used it both ways on my trip up to Nova Scotia. Hard to believe it can reach under 55 deg in July. The pants were firstgear mesh overpants(I forget what kind). I got both from New enough and will do so again. Great people.

[Mellow]

Did your bags get damaged?

[NCSam]

Right now the total cost appears to be under 600 dollars.

WOW! You were indeed fortunate if you got away with only a few scratches and $600 damage :eek:

I 2nd, 3rd and 4th everyone that said "glad you were OK" ... AND ... congratulations on standing up and admitting the fault! In 1996 I did a high-side and totaled my '93 ST1100 and, almost totalled me! It took about a year to stop blaming: new brake linings, inferior tire, new pavement, yada, yada, yada! Truth of the matter was that I entered the curve too hot and didn't trust the bike. I didn't have any gear on either (Had my 3/4 helment on though .. :rolleyes: ) I learned from the mistake and, I'm sure you will too.

Sam

[Dread]

Glad you are ok. First saw the thread on beginnerbikers.org and raced over here to get the scoop. Real stand up guy, Mac, thanks for having the guts to stand up and share the experience.
D

[CrashTestDanny]

Glad you're ok, Mac.

Wish someone had caught mine on film. :D

Got a URL for service Honda?

[dond]

Thanks for poSTing Mac and real glad you CAN poST! Describing the incident and talking about it is a learning experience for all.
I find it refreshing and these days unusual for someone to taking responsibilty for their actions. I commend you for that.

Ride on friend and ride faST safely..

[EdsST]

Sorry to hear that it was one of us (rather not happen to anyone but more so to one of us), but really glad to find out you're alright and not too much damage to the bike. From the look of the pictures it seemed that it would be a lot more expensive (in both body parts and bike parts).

Not that I'm blaming anyone, but has anyone else scraped their center stand - I've worn out the feelers on the pegs and even scraped part of the lower fairing (the gray part), but never had any problem with center stand (only asking because its nice to know if I have to worry about that)

[ricopaolino]

WOW! You were indeed fortunate if you got away with only a few scratches and $600 damage :eek:



Glad you Ok Mac! :bow1: What's really cool is that you are Ok, the bike is not too badly damaged AND you got it on film!!!!

[Ken]

What an amazing thread! Horrible pictures. Scary crash. Minor injuries. Minor bike damage. And Mac with balls the size grapefruits for admitting it was him. Glad you are OK. Could have been SO much worse. Buy a lottery ticket! :D

[illzoni]

How about these?

[golfbum69]

Mac, Try to get a hold of Killboy. If he take's any pic's of a crash he will give them to you free.

Jim

[Austin city limits]

Well,,,

My Opinion???

The Bolt,,, on the Steed Sticks touches about 1/2 to 1/4 inch before even the foot pegs... How do I know??? Well,,, i went into a turn outside of Hillcity South Dakota last year and came,,, VERY close to doing just what happened here to Mac...

I got back to the hotel and the bolt was REALLY ground at the bottom of the Steed Sticks... My pegs barely,,, I mean,,, BARELY touched at all!!!

The Bolt on the Steed Sticks does not,,, move,,, it digs in when it hits... I will 98.6% assure you that if I would have had it leaned 1 degree more than I already had it,,, the force of the bolt digging in to the road would have lifted the rear tire off... Think about it... 55 mph,,, laid over,,, and a bolt,,, a STRAIGHT bolt,,, that does not move,,, starts cutting into the road like a knife... It would start to pivot the bike on this point and roll forward as it did,,, lifting the rear tire...

I put the "Chicago Bolt' on and used a sheet of 4' - 8' plywood borrowed at the Hardware store in Hillcity to see what hit first then... I Stood the bike up level,,, and stuck the sheet of Plywood under the edge of the front/back tires... I then raised it up to act as if I was laying the bike down,,, as it were... The pegs hit first,,, 1/2 inch later the Chicago Bolt hit... I was happy Camper then... Sure,,, I still COULD screw up but at LEAST,,, I would hear the pegs scrap as before,,, I just heard the bolt scrap,,, and unlike the Foot Pegs which fold back,,, and up,,, the Steed Stick bolt does not move,,, in any way,,, shape,,, or form... It hits,,, and YOU,,, and the bike move accordingly...

Sorry for the book but,,, I took a lot of time researching this,,, and just this once,,, I might have a clue... ;)

[John Anthony]

Mac,

Glad to hear that both you and your ride came through all of this about as well as you could. $600 on your bike is nothing and I can't believe you only got some minor road rash. You must have had someone looking after you on that ride.

Heal fast.

John

[wjbertrand]

Well,,,

My Opinion???

The Bolt,,, on the Steed Sticks touches about 1/2 to 1/4 inch before even the foot pegs... How do I know??? Well,,, i went into a turn outside of Hillcity South Dakota last year and came,,, VERY close to doing just what happened here to Mac...

I got back to the hotel and the bolt was REALLY ground at the bottom of the Steed Sticks... My pegs barely,,, I mean,,, BARELY touched at all!!!

The Bolt on the Steed Sticks does not,,, move,,, it digs in when it hits... I will 98.6% assure you that if I would have had it leaned 1 degree more than I already had it,,, the force of the bolt digging in to the road would have lifted the rear tire off... Think about it... 55 mph,,, laid over,,, and a bolt,,, a STRAIGHT bolt,,, that does not move,,, starts cutting into the road like a knife... It would start to pivot the bike on this point and roll forward as it did,,, lifting the rear tire...

I put the "Chicago Bolt' on and used a sheet of 4' - 8' plywood borrowed at the Hardware store in Hillcity to see what hit first then... I Stood the bike up level,,, and stuck the sheet of Plywood under the edge of the front/back tires... I then raised it up to act as if I was laying the bike down,,, as it were... The pegs hit first,,, 1/2 inch later the Chicago Bolt hit... I was happy Camper then... Sure,,, I still COULD screw up but at LEAST,,, I would hear the pegs scrap as before,,, I just heard the bolt scrap,,, and unlike the Foot Pegs which fold back,,, and up,,, the Steed Stick bolt does not move,,, in any way,,, shape,,, or form... It hits,,, and YOU,,, and the bike move accordingly...

Sorry for the book but,,, I took a lot of time researching this,,, and just this once,,, I might have a clue... ;)

I'm not sure a static test in the garage, as you describe, will accurately predict what happens on the road under dynamic conditions. Cornering loads will tend to compress the suspension while acceleration or braking loads can reduce clearance unequally front to rear. For example the faring lowers will scrape on a loaded ST but in the garage you can drop the bike all the way over on the wing (don't ask! :mad: ) and it looks like they couldn't touch.

[Austin city limits]

I'm not sure a static test in the garage, as you describe, will accurately predict what happens on the road under dynamic conditions. Cornering loads will tend to compress the suspension while acceleration or braking loads can reduce clearance unequally front to rear. For example the faring lowers will scrape on a loaded ST but in the garage you can drop the bike all the way over on the wing (don't ask! :mad: ) and it looks like they couldn't touch.

I will agree wjbertrand...

You go in hot to a corner,,, dip it low,,, and then hit a bump things that look clear before,,, hit...

Go into another corner and dip it just like you did in the last 10 curves but this time hit your brakes and the front goes lower,,, and hits where it never hit before...

But,,, "IF",,, you take a 4' - 8' sheet of plywood that is strong,,, and straight,,, and it shows,,, your Steed Stick Bolt is hitting before your Foot Pegs... You will be heading for a Static Test you will never forget if you do not correct it,,, and pronto... ;)

[RibsST1300]

Glad to hear you are OK..
By the way...on my Stock 06, the first things to hit when I rode the Dragon(apparently all at the same time) were lower fairing in front of toes, centerstand and a very small amount of footpeg scraping.

I've anly scraped once that I know of and all three items came up dinged. Since I am hittng my centerstand-I am not going to push it-I like my tires on the ground...

[Mac]

Did your bags get damaged?

Yeah, the left side is pretty scraped up. I'm not going to replace the cover ...yet and then only as a last resort. I'm going to try the sticker route first, then if thats not working for me, I may try to have the bags line-x'ed. I think they can color the coating, so it may be worth a try.

[Burger]

Yeah, the left side is pretty scraped up. I'm not going to replace the cover ...yet and then only as a last resort. I'm going to try the sticker route first, then if thats not working for me, I may try to have the bags line-x'ed. I think they can color the coating, so it may be worth a try.

Or you could get the covers for them. Now all I have to do is remember who makes them.

Regards,

[nm6r]

Mac, glad to hear you made it through ok. I would be concerned about the forks situation. Make sure they are straight.


Sorry to hear that it was one of us (rather not happen to anyone but more so to one of us), but really glad to find out you're alright and not too much damage to the bike. From the look of the pictures it seemed that it would be a lot more expensive (in both body parts and bike parts).

My Staintunes alone cost more than $600.


Not that I'm blaming anyone, but has anyone else scraped their center stand - I've worn out the feelers on the pegs and even scraped part of the lower fairing (the gray part), but never had any problem with center stand (only asking because its nice to know if I have to worry about that)

Having gone through a couple sets of peg scrapers, grinding through black textured lower cowling and just barely touching a tipover wing in a turn, I was wondering the same thing. It seems to me the suspension is not set up properly if the centerstand is getting scraped up without reaching the point of no return and going down.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[hojo in sc]

Mac: Sure glad your okay, and my hat is off to you for standing up, takes a strong man to do so. Don't fret over it and get back out thee ASAP.

[AZST]

Glad you're back....MAC.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
STOC# 5197
:04biker:

[Mac]

Having gone through a couple sets of peg scrapers, grinding through black textured lower cowling and just barely touching a tipover wing in a turn, I was wondering the same thing. It seems to me the suspension is not set up properly if the centerstand is getting scraped up without reaching the point of no return and going down.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif


I have been pondering the pics and am thinking that instead of the centerstand scraping and losing the rear, that instead the cruise pegs lifted the front. It just happened so quickly that I am not exactly sure what went first.

[BentAero]

I used to grind off the pegs, and grind holes thru the lower cowls - until some wiser-than-I riders showed me a better technique for "performance cornering" of the ST.

When you're hot-doggin' a road like deals gap, slide your butt on the seat in the direction of the turn an inch or so, (not much, you don't have to look like Nicky Hayden) and get your head out from behind the windshield and pretend you're going to "bite the mirror". It's very ackward at first, but stick with it, it really works.

This allows the chassis to stay just a little more upright in the curves. By using this technique, I went from grinding holes thru the plastic to NEVER so much as touching a footpeg anymore. And those who know me... well, let's just say I'm not a "rose smeller" on a mountain road.

Try it. Once you get used to it, it will make you a safer rider.

[Mellow]

I used to grind off the pegs, and grind holes thru the lower cowls - until some wiser-than-I riders showed me a better technique for "performance cornering" of the ST.

When you're hot-doggin' a road like deals gap, slide your butt on the seat in the direction of the turn an inch or so, (not much, you don't have to look like Nicky Hayden) and get your head out from behind the windshield and pretend you're going to "bite the mirror". It's very ackward at first, but stick with it, it really works.

This allows the chassis to stay just a little more upright in the curves. By using this technique, I went from grinding holes thru the plastic to NEVER so much as touching a footpeg anymore. And those who know me... well, let's just say I'm not a "rose smeller" on a mountain road.

Try it. Once you get used to it, it will make you a safer rider.


I use this technique on the wing, I need all the clearance I can get and when I get into curves I pretend to look over the mirror... Slide butt a little, look over mirror and make sure your shoulders are square and you aren't twisted.

Works great.

[nm6r]

I used to grind off the pegs, and grind holes thru the lower cowls - until some wiser-than-I riders showed me a better technique for "performance cornering" of the ST.

When you're hot-doggin' a road like deals gap, slide your butt on the seat in the direction of the turn an inch or so, (not much, you don't have to look like Nicky Hayden) and get your head out from behind the windshield and pretend you're going to "bite the mirror". It's very ackward at first, but stick with it, it really works.

This allows the chassis to stay just a little more upright in the curves. By using this technique, I went from grinding holes thru the plastic to NEVER so much as touching a footpeg anymore. And those who know me... well, let's just say I'm not a "rose smeller" on a mountain road.

Try it. Once you get used to it, it will make you a safer rider.

I guess I have to learn to lean further off the bike as I'm still scraping pegs. :cool:

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[dduelin]

Boy those pics hit home. I am glad that you are OK and a great sport.

I just got back several hours ago from a trip to that area. I logged about 1,300 miles on those roads Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. I rode the Dragon in the middle of the week in the mornings and late afternoons and it was real nice to make pass after pass with little or no traffic. Thursday morning I rode over and back and only came up on one car on the way back and that was right before the end.

I met Yellow Wolf early Thursday morning and he filmed a video of me making an north - south run. Hit 77 mph on either Cat Tail or Cooper Straight according to the GPS. Yellow Wolf rides a Goldwing faster than many sport bikes across the Gap but then he rides it every good weather day many times.

I like the Dragon and rode it many times this trip. At the overlook Yellow Wolf mentioned the ST1300 crash from a few days before. The gossip was it was the highway pegs that lifted the tires off the pavement. I had my preload turned in all the way and throw sparks from only the peg feelers. I weigh about 165. I think the heavier guys must depress the suspension more and of course if we get puckered up midway thru and close the throttle the bike settles lower on the suspension. I hang off a little in the tighter turns. My pegs get worn and the lower fairing is scraped up in front of the pegs but I just went and looked to see if the centerstand or pipes were scraped and they were not. There's a little scuffing on the left engine guard but i think it was from falling over in a parking lot.

I had to contend with lots of rain this trip. 28, Cherolhala, Dragon, Wolf, and Hwy 60 were all done in wet and dry. I wished I had Pilot Roads sometimes on wet pavement but the Metzeler Z-6's did fine. Heavy rain washed gravel on to some turns on both the dragon and on the Cherohala. The TN DOT is filling some of the drop-offs on 129 with crushed stone gravel. At one point my video shows my rear tire flicking a quarter-sized piece of stone off to the side in one of the hairpins.

Again, I'm glad your OK.

[dduelin]

I looked at the pics again and can remember that metal sign post with no sign on it visible in the third picture. It was like for mile marker or something. I sure am glad you didn't clip that post.....

[Mac]

Yeah, me too. It would have been major suckage then.

[Clair]

From my track day on my ST1100 ... which I'm assuming still applies to the ST1300 ... my instructor got me to slide my inside knee forward till it touched the fairing. The affect of that was to shift my weight slightly inside, but not so much of hanging my butt off the seat like a lot of sport riders do. Head over the hand, basically trying to "kiss" your hand as it were. The shifting of the weight allows the bike to be more upright as it rounds a turn. Worked amazingly on the track and I'm now trying to incorporate it into my regular riding.


[edited ... now was "not" ... should have been now]

[Tiny]

Worked amazingly on the track and I'm not trying to incorporate it into my regular riding.
I fail to see the logic behind THAT statement! :confused:

[wjbertrand]

I have been pondering the pics and am thinking that instead of the centerstand scraping and losing the rear, that instead the cruise pegs lifted the front. It just happened so quickly that I am not exactly sure what went first.

This was my thought looking at the pictures. If you loose the rear first, the bike will often rotate around or high side you. Looks like you continued more or less straight off the road from the initial loss of traction which would be consistent with a low side due to a front tire slide. Also, the pegs look too far forward to have lifted the rear first and appear to be hard into the tarmac before the stand should have hit. The C-stand was probably right behind though as the bike began to go down.

Hope you don't mind but that shower of sparks in the first photo looks so impressive, I've used it for my wall paper!

[Carl_T]

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85020

For Christ sake back it off a few more clicks as a general rule Mac.

[Simmons1]

Mac,

You are a celebrity!

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/nav?page=motorcyclenews.articles.articleCategory.a rticle&resourceId=5152894&articleCategory=NEWS_OTHER-NEWS

[Tiny]

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85020

For Christ sake back it off a few more clicks as a general rule Mac.
Nahhh...Push it, Baby! :04biker:

[blueSTormer]

Tiny, I hope you are being facetious with your post. If my reading of the facts are accurate, this guy crashed twice in the same area within one year, severely injuring another rider the first crash. He most definitely needs to reevaluate his style of riding, or eventually he will be in the obits.

[rom]

I consider myself a "ticket to happen" rider.
I did ride with some of you and got put to shame, but...

Riding with Seattle Phil, my god how does he do it?
With Dano, I do not pass in blind corners.
With Dave Riker, man, this guy can corner...

I never cross the yellow line...
they did...

Call me a chicken or whatever you like, that's why I never crashed a bike on my own.
I had some people cutting me off or rear ending me, but I never had a crash in any other way.
Started in Germany in 1969 and had I don't remember how many bikes.

Looking at Mac, he maybe should reconsider his riding stile.
If I don't know, I don't do it.
I does not help to have done the road 5 or more times, the other riders or Deer don't know that.
Just have fun, but please let the others have the same.

I agree to the Footpegs touching first.
I would have done some testing.
I adjust the preload all the time depending on load,
am I the only one?

Just my $ 0,02.

Ralf

[halfasteddie]

For some reason the pics dont come up on my computer, does anyone know the date of the crash so I can find it on killboy?
Thanks
ed

[Txrebel]

For some reason the pics dont come up on my computer, does anyone know the date of the crash so I can find it on killboy?
Thanks
ed
Look under the the july front page. mid-bottom of page.

[disco1999]

right over here . . .

http://killboy.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_killboy_archive.html

[ParkerBill]

Hey Mac, glad you came out of your crash as well as I did a couple of weeks ago, although it sounds like your bike came out much better. My less than two months old '06 ST suffered $12K in damages and the insurance company totaled it. I had on a First Gear Leather-Tex Speed jacket and it was pretty much destroyed, but all I got was a small abrasion behind my left shoulder and another even smaller one on my left elbow.

I also low-sided on my left side when I locked up the brakes during an unplanned panic stop to avoid hitting something. I personally think the engine guard/wing saved my left left from a lot of damage, because while the pair of Olympia Cordura riding pants I had on got ripped out on my left hip, I did not get so much as a scratch or bruise on my legs, only a very small left big toe from, I guess, the bike landing on it at some point during our slide down the road. I posted a thread about my accident "Crashed" a couple of weeks ago.

Yep, I'm going to get a new ST--just waiting for the insurance check to come and trying to find a good deal on any remaining '06's; although at this point I may wait for the '07 information to come out. Heck, I may be one of the first people to own a new '07!! :D

Amen--ATGATT has always been my rule!

[Computer Nerd]

His speedo is indicating 40 to 45MPH. (Kinda fast for most corners)

And he's got some kinda highway peg under his tipover wing. That's what's making the sparks, and probably making him crash.

I sure wouldn't put that stuff on my bike. (Peg lowering farks especially)

[KJM]

Glad your OK Mac. Dispite all the thing's you could have done to help the situation, side saddled, etc. May-be you've reached the limits of this bike? You have a choice to make now. Keep the bike and ease off. or find a bike that is more sutiable to your aggressive style of riding. decision's - decisions?
I don't know of a bike that offers the "best of both" as well as the ST does. Anybody????????????????????????????????

[Phil]

Why would you try to rail through the gap on an ST anyways? Sure, you could do that, but......why? Kind of like taking an R1 or 1098 and fixing saddle bags and GPS equipment to it.

Maybe you want to pick off the slower guys on sportbikes? (kind of like that yellow wolf dude)... If I want to bend corners and scrape pucks, I'll don full leathers and get to business. If I want to enjoy the ride and not even care if I get passed 100 times, I'll be on the ST. lol

Then again, to each his own..... *shrugs*

[STill Fiddlin]

Yeah, don't try doing it on an ST

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13323

[Phil]

Yeah, don't try doing it on an ST

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13323

Not saying it CANT be done....like I said, to each his own though...

[STill Fiddlin]

Well, when my fairy godmother shows up and fills my garage with a nice selection of ride-matched bikes, I'll be all set then ;). Until that time, I'll have to ride my old (one and only) compromise-bike and just grit my teeth. If I don't drive off the road before then, I'll probably have to even take it to the Gap!

[Phil]

No worries m8! :)

I would LOVE to ride the gap on the ST, I just wouldn't try to push it hard enough to lowside in a corner. For better riding than the gap, I would take it farther south to TWO, Helen, and Blood Mountain...

[HankSTer]

I just was there last Tuesday, this is the beginning of a nice sequence of pics:

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/OrderPage.aspx?pi=04RK00AP060123&po=123&c=

and this is a pic of what my chicken strips looked like after the gap, war woman road, richard russell, wolf pens gap, rt 129, rt 28, and others :) it was alot of fun, watch out for gravel on the roads though, that sucks...

and the other image is of a guy that didn't make one of the corners... that bike is totaled. cracked frame, bent forks, everything smashed. Luckily, not him. And I do mean luckily, the bike went smack into a telephone pole, he missed it by inches.

I'm tellin ya it's like the MSF teaches, slow before the corner, and the only way you know how much to slow is by looking through the corner *before* you're in it. It's a judgement call, each time, but practice makes it more fun ;)

Enjoy,

[dduelin]

Hankster,

This is the same corner, Mud Corner, in sequence last July:
http:i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/05876.jpg

[dduelin]

Hankster,

This is the same corner, Mud Corner, in sequence last July:
http:i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/05876.jpg

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/05876.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/06524.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/06426.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/06526-crop.jpg

I was riding Z6's that trip, the last ride on the Gap before heading home, hence the luggage on the back.

When I came back from North Ga in March this is what the edges of my Avon STorms looked like:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/100_6343.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/100_6342.jpg

And Phil, I actually do like to pick off slower sportbikes. Why? Because I can on the ST complete with bags and GPS, like the Hayabusa on Hwy 60 running down to Suches....

[Phil]

Dave, that's awesome that you can do that. Must be a real surprise to that guy on leathered up on his latest ZXgix whatever when you come around him... I went out today, and must admit I got a little "froggy" in the turns, but I know there is absolutely no way I'm as fast on the ST as I am on a sportbike. Maybe once I get some more practice :)

Nice pics!

[Computer Nerd]

I see your center stand is scrapin', wonder how difficult it would be to remove the center stand when you plan on hitting some twisties?

[HankSTer]

"Lookin Good" Dave, and a great line too, out in out, as they say.

My pics were my one and only run through. I did notice that with the Sonic Springs, the first thing to touch down seems to be the center stand? I agree with Buck let's pull the dang things off of there ;)

[CrashTestDanny]

Nice runs guys... Dave, I don't think you'd run down DennisH's busa up there...

[DennisH]

I was riding Z6's that trip, the last ride on the Gap before heading home, hence the luggage on the back.

When I came back from North Ga in March this is what the edges of my Avon STorms looked like:

And Phil, I actually do like to pick off slower sportbikes. Why? Because I can on the ST complete with bags and GPS, like the Hayabusa on Hwy 60 running down to Suches....

Blah, Blah, Blah... If you beat a Hayabusa on your ST, the rider must have just been out for a sight seeing cruise. If you were really cooking through the Gap, we wouldn't still be able to read STORM on the edges anymore.

This is how Busas roll...

[CrashTestDanny]

I see your center stand is scrapin', wonder how difficult it would be to remove the center stand when you plan on hitting some twisties?

Why remove parts when a simple correction in his posture would eliminate the scraping and make him a safer rider at the same time?

If you'll slide a little to the inside of the turns and make sure your upper body is leaned into the turn rather than away from it, the bike will make the same turn at the same speed with less lean angle required.

If riding a motorcycle is all about managing traction, why are we so anxious to maximize our lean angle? After all, we all know that the greater the lean angle, the less traction you have to work with, right? Not only that, but our suspension only works in one direction - vertical. When we're leaned its effectiveness is also reduced. Therefore, why shouldn't we try to maximize our turn before we start leaning?

On my second run through Cherohala, I started playing with getting my butt off the saddle - as DennisH has been suggesting to me for some time. The Russell made it a little challenging, but I found when I did it, some of the turns that I had trouble doing 60 through the first run I could do 70 through with nearly zero lean angle just by sliding over about half a cheek and leaning my upper body.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is maximize the rider's performance before you start ripping parts off the bike. You'll get a lot more improvement from that and you'll probably find other benefits as well.

[Phil]

Blah, Blah, Blah... If you beat a Hayabusa on your ST, the rider must have just been out for a sight seeing cruise. If you were really cooking through the Gap, we wouldn't still be able to read STORM on the edges anymore.

This is how Busas roll...

Is this going to turn into a "show us a pic of you at the gap, or otherwise knee down" thread?

:eek:


:bannana

[Raven]

+1 on better body positioning!!

Of course, you do miss out on the sparklies and the photos aren't quite as dramatic!

[Roseknight]

If riding a motorcycle is all about managing traction, why are we so anxious to maximize our lean angle?

sometimes the only real answer to a silly question is a silly answer...
thus:
'Cuz its FUN!:D

[dduelin]

Blah, Blah, Blah... If you beat a Hayabusa on your ST, the rider must have just been out for a sight seeing cruise. If you were really cooking through the Gap, we wouldn't still be able to read STORM on the edges anymore.



Yeah sure, a sportbike well ridden will do a horizon job on a well ridden ST, but a mediocre sportbike rider can get a surprise handed to him by a good pilot on an ST - that's all I meant to post.

I don't go looking for races but when you come up on another bike on those roads and follow them awhile you get an idea how they get along. If their pace is slower you pass unless you like riding slower than you could otherwise. If they elevate the pace to hang in behind and I do the same and leave them, I reckon I had the better of him in the particular section we were riding at the time. Down the road at Dale's he came over to look at my ST and we had a nice conversation. I'm sure you would have smoked me on your Busa and never given me reason to pass.

When I was up there in March on the Gap it was 40 degrees, raining and foggy the first day. Maybe you would have melted the edges in the rain but not me. In fact, there were no other bikes up there at all. Better sense than me probably. The next day it was 28 degrees at 8:00 AM as I rode across the Gap heading up to Brushy Mountain north of Knoxville to ride Hwy 116. I saw one bike in three passes of the Dragon and it was a VFR. I only saw five other bikes all day, some 380 miles, and those were the VFR and four cruisers. It was 25 degrees up on the Cherohala at 5 PM as I headed across to the hotel in Robbinsville. How's the Busa after 380 miles in frigid weather? I've never saw one that day.

[dduelin]

Why remove parts when a simple correction in his posture would eliminate the scraping and make him a safer rider at the same time?

If you'll slide a little to the inside of the turns and make sure your upper body is leaned into the turn rather than away from it, the bike will make the same turn at the same speed with less lean angle required.

If riding a motorcycle is all about managing traction, why are we so anxious to maximize our lean angle? After all, we all know that the greater the lean angle, the less traction you have to work with, right? Not only that, but our suspension only works in one direction - vertical. When we're leaned its effectiveness is also reduced. Therefore, why shouldn't we try to maximize our turn before we start leaning?

On my second run through Cherohala, I started playing with getting my butt off the saddle - as DennisH has been suggesting to me for some time. The Russell made it a little challenging, but I found when I did it, some of the turns that I had trouble doing 60 through the first run I could do 70 through with nearly zero lean angle just by sliding over about half a cheek and leaning my upper body.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is maximize the rider's performance before you start ripping parts off the bike. You'll get a lot more improvement from that and you'll probably find other benefits as well.

I don't have a knee down, never do Danny, but I do slide off center into the turn and weight the inside edge of the seat. I'm not leaning to the outside in any of those pics.

[Tarheel_Rider]

Is it just me, or does seeing all these pics of hugging the yellow line on a left turn, thus hanging bike / body into the coming traffic make anyone else nervous? While I'm not advocating a delayed apex mantra, I try to keep my bike / head inside the yellow line and while its not as fast as the racing line, on a crowded road like Deals Gap, it seems sensible. Just my .02, flame on.

[dduelin]

Is it just me, or does seeing all these pics of hugging the yellow line on a left turn, thus hanging bike / body into the coming traffic make anyone else nervous? While I'm not advocating a delayed apex mantra, I try to keep my bike / head inside the yellow line and while its not as fast as the racing line, on a crowded road like Deals Gap, it seems sensible. Just my .02, flame on.

Look closer at the shadows Tarheel, the eye of the camera may make the yellow appear closer than it is in at least some of the pics.

Pick this apart guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blh0afqtMRM

[Tarheel_Rider]

Look closer at the shadows Tarheel, the eye of the camera may make the yellow appear closer than it is in at least some of the pics.

Pick this apart guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blh0afqtMRM

Good point. Things aren't always as they look.

Love that video, too bad YW had to stop.

[FireSporT]

I know I coming in late on this thread, but I agree with the body positioning. I ride the East Tn roads every day. It's amazing what a little active riding (i.e. leaning off the seat) will do for your turns. You don't have to get crazy on the lean angle. You do have to actively ride, that is the ball of your foot onthe pegs and you some leg muscle.

Last year I was lucky enough to ride 129 from Knoxville, Tn to Seneca, SC each week for work. Best commute I ever had. Gotto runthe Fragon about 16 different days. NC 28 is also a fun road.

[Phil]

Look closer at the shadows Tarheel, the eye of the camera may make the yellow appear closer than it is in at least some of the pics.

Pick this apart guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blh0afqtMRM

Nice vid! At the pace you were carrying, I'd have to say you'd be able to hang with, if not leave behind, MANY of the sportbike riders that are on the gap. Good work :)

[DennisH]

Yeah sure, a sportbike well ridden will do a horizon job on a well ridden ST, but a mediocre sportbike rider can get a surprise handed to him by a good pilot on an ST - that's all I meant to post.


I'll agree with that. I watched your video. You have some skills, but if you don't work on your form, you are going to lift the rear tire off the ground dragging hard parts. Like CTD pointed out, your upper body is fighting what the bike wants to do naturally. Get your weight shifted to the inside of the corner and straighten up the lean angle a bit. You'll get even faster while reducing your chance of a crash.

[Phil]

everybody is an internet Keith Code...

why can't people just enjoy a video of a street ride?

[DennisH]

everybody is an internet Keith Code...

why can't people just enjoy a video of a street ride?

Because we don't want to see him end up like the guy in the first post of this thread.

[dduelin]

Because we don't want to see him end up like the guy in the first post of this thread.

Thanks for the tips. I think my form is a bit better now than what you see here. Those pics and the video is nearly 20,000 miles ago.

[CrashTestDanny]

Dave - and everyone else,

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was trying to pick on you or to suggest that I am a better than anyone here. The one thing that I know for a fact is that I have plenty of room for improvement.

However, I have long felt that I can learn from anyone - including those less experienced and/or capable than I am. In that spirit, I do not hesitate to point something out that looks like a mistake to me and to allow those more experienced and capable to analyze my comments and suggestions on their merits, and that was my intent in my earlier comment.

So, what I beat around the bush about and what DennisH clarified a little, is only that in the photo you posted with the sparks coming from your peg or c-stand, your upper body is leaned away from the turn - as in a few of the turns in your video - which, BTW, is a much faster run through the dragon than I am currently capable of. I recently saw a MCN video on getting the knee down, and the instructor in that video had the same critique for his student. His solution was to suggest that the rider drop his shoulders into the turn. I also constantly struggle with counter-leaning and it really kills my riding.

As for getting a knee down - I don't recall mentioning that because IMO, it's completely unnecessary and would even be foolhardy in my case, since I don't have knee sliders. :D

Anyhow, if anyone ever needs to ride through someplace curvy with someone they can beat through it, give me a call - I'm a slowpoke!

[Phil]

Because we don't want to see him end up like the guy in the first post of this thread.

Yea, but you see this all over the internet. Someone posts a trackday or street ride and everyone chimes in with their 2 pennies... Do this, don't do that, lean this way, tuck here, blah blah.... Kind of like picking up a Golf Digest and looking at the hundreds of different ways to improve your swing. Bottom line, there is no ONE RIGHT way to ride a motorcycle...

:)

[ST/SV]

Congratulations Mac, you made "Motorcyclist" magazine this month. :bow1:

[bmcdonau]

Random thoughts after reading this thread.

Glad the damage wasn't any worse, even a low speed get off has the potential to do lots of damage to the body and the bike.

We have some nice roads here in the Hill Country, but I'd like to ride the Gap just to say I did it. Definitely won't happen this summer, maybe next.

If you are interested in corner hugging, knee dragging, full throttle riding, then a sport bike is definitely the way to go--the ST is just too top heavy, weighs too much and doesn't have enough ground clearance for that kind of riding.

If I only had the ST, I'd ride it anyway, but within the limits of the lean angle and weight of the bike. There's room for everybody on the highway.

Maybe its the nature of the internet forum, but if a bunch of guys were sitting around watching a video of someone riding in person, I think there would be more positive comments and less advice given than there is here.

[Phil]

Maybe its the nature of the internet forum, but if a bunch of guys were sitting around watching a video of someone riding in person, I think there would be more positive comments and less advice given than there is here.

:hat1:

[Don-STOC237]

Congratulations Mac, you made "Motorcyclist" magazine this month. :bow1:

The front cover, even ! :D

[George]

Know what P's me about this thread? I don't have my June issue yet. Heck, only got the May issue a couple weeks ago!

Can't blame USPS for this either. Everything else shows up on time. So, why do some folks get their MotorCyclist early and others (me!) late?

Inquiring minds,

[Tarheel_Rider]

Know what P's me about this thread? I don't have my June issue yet. Heck, only got the May issue a couple weeks ago!

Can't blame USPS for this either. Everything else shows up on time. So, why do some folks get their MotorCyclist early and others (me!) late?

Inquiring minds,

Same here. I've almost always read the latest issue at Borders or Barnes & Noble by the time the silly thing shows up in my mail. Love the magazine and wanted to show my support by getting a subscription to help it stay in business, but it goes straight to the library when it shows up.

[Don-STOC237]

I think you guys have postmen who are motorcyclists.

Mine is a STOC member, but thankfully he gets his own copy. :D

[George]

Hey, Mac, folks are asking about you over on the ST liST. Are you subscribed there?

[RTETR]

Now that's a Mac Attack if I've ever seen one...

I've done the Gap 5 times now and whilst a lot of fun requires your full attention and respect for sure.

Happy to see you are Ok Mac, even more pleased with your attitude and lessons learned approach and for sharing with the rest of us. Perhaps this will keep others upright and safe between the painted lines?

[Mac]

Hey, Mac, folks are asking about you over on the ST liST. Are you subscribed there?

I don't believe I am. Where is it?

[Mac]

Now that's a Mac Attack if I've ever seen one...

I've done the Gap 5 times now and whilst a lot of fun requires your full attention and respect for sure.

Happy to see you are Ok Mac, even more pleased with your attitude and lessons learned approach and for sharing with the rest of us. Perhaps this will keep others upright and safe between the painted lines?

Thanks. I'm trying mightily to be safer and slow down in the corners. I've put on about 5000 miles since then(no real trips yet) and all seems well.
I have a drz with street tires on(not motarded though) and it lets me ride the corners better and have more fun doing so.

[DennisH]

Bottom line, there is no ONE RIGHT way to ride a motorcycle...

:)


But there are a lot more wrong ways to do it. If you are cruising at 50% of the bikes capabilities, it really doesn't matter what you are doing right or wrong. The closer you are to approaching the limits, the more important it is that you are doing the right things.

[Phil]

But there are a lot more wrong ways to do it. If you are cruising at 50% of the bikes capabilities, it really doesn't matter what you are doing right or wrong. The closer you are to approaching the limits, the more important it is that you are doing the right things.

My point exactly. What's "right" to you, might not be "right" for someone else. The way that Keith Code teaches to go through a turn is not the way that Fast Freddie teaches. Some say you must hang off of a sportbike, others say swivel around the tank.

I guess there shouldn't be a problem with giving out advice, but as previously mentioned all it takes is one video of a ride and everyone suddenly becomes an expert and says you have to do this or that, when they themselves probably don't have the best form.

I've done some decent riding in my day, but I'm NOT the most experienced or fastest dude out there and will refrain from giving advice until I've either got 200,000 miles under my belt or a few championship trophies. :03biker:

[DennisH]

I've done some decent riding in my day, but I'm NOT the most experienced or fastest dude out there and will refrain from giving advice until I've either got 200,000 miles under my belt or a few championship trophies. :03biker:


I can apprecieate that, and I agree that there are alot of armchair racers giving out useless advice. However, if I see someone who's riding is increasing the chances of a crash (counter leaning causing hard parts to touch down due to increased lean angle of the bike), I feel that it needs to be pointed out to them. I would hate to think that a rider crashed because I kept my advice to myself.

[GRN]

IMO, if your going to play with the fuzzy edge, do it correctly... I lead rides where the guys following me on the same bike are scraping, yet I have yet to scrape this bike. Better body positioning = less lean = greater margin for overcoming variables... period. There are a few different ways to attain that weight shift, read, find one you are comfortable with, and get on with it... or slow the F down. Judging by the photos that alone may have left Mac an out in this case. I remember a story about another crash I think Mac was in... involved another bike and injuries to the other rider... maybe some similarities that he can draw to improve his own personal strategy?