Riding the Clutch

[emshaferii]

Curious to see folks thoughts on this....

[Byron]

I didn't vote because I'm not sure of your context of "riding the clutch." Are you talking about like people riding their brakes while driving or slipping the clutch during certain maneuvers?

[ccryder]

Engaging the clutch at the "friction" point is part of normal riding especially when going slow. It should be kept at a minimum for longevity of the clutch.

Neil S.

[Littlejohn64]

Engaging the clutch at the "friction" point is part of normal riding especially when going slow. It should be kept at a minimum for longevity of the clutch.

Neil S.
+1 !!!
Theyre designed to use the friction point.

[msnyder755]

Being a wet clutch they are designed to be used to control the engine power to the transmission without abnormal wear. If you are not working the clutch at slower speeds and in parking lots I bet it gets a bit jumpy....

[EdsST]

+1 That is the whole point of teaching new riders the Friction Zone and how to use it

[BigTom]

Yeah, but

My Dad always said "Clutch in to shift or stop. Otherwise, foot off the clutch pedal." Sometimes punctuated with a (gentle) shot to the head. Heard most often in a '48 Ford 1/2 ton, square cut transmission gears. I got pretty good at shifting pretty early in life. I still tend to be in or out. In and coasting or out under gentle power in a parking lot.

[U-Turn]

Yeah, but

My Dad always said "Clutch in to shift or stop. Otherwise, foot off the clutch pedal." I got pretty good at shifting pretty early in life. I still tend to be in or out.


I basically agree with this, however I do use the clutch a lot for low speed maneuvers.

:04biker:

[emshaferii]

sorry for the confusion....what I meant to ask is about the activity of not fully engaging the clutch or staying in the friction zone while you are doing low speed manuvers.....I was trying to ascertain how many folks bought into the MSF approach of utilizing the friction zone extensively in low speed manuvers without concern to ensure safe riding takes place......

My vote was #1 - no impact to clutch life at all since it is a wet clutch and is meant to be utilized in the friction zone without concern...

[Phillyrube]

Yeah, but

My Dad always said "Clutch in to shift or stop. Otherwise, foot off the clutch pedal." Sometimes punctuated with a (gentle) shot to the head. Heard most often in a '48 Ford 1/2 ton, square cut transmission gears. I got pretty good at shifting pretty early in life. I still tend to be in or out. In and coasting or out under gentle power in a parking lot.

Sounds like my brother, he thinks the pedal on the left is a foot rest!!!

[pretbek]

Engaging the clutch at the "friction" point is part of normal riding especially when going slow.

The trick that they taught me for low-speed maneuvers was to hold the rear brake. (...In the Netherlands, that is. This morning at the MSF course I was taught to use the clutch.)
I'm sure that both using the clutch's friction zone and holding the rear brake will work, but I find that the rear brake method is more fool proof, for me anyway (does that make me a fool? :p: ).

When using the clutch, a slight movement in the clutch handle -not unthinkable because of the big movements of the handlebars- will cause a significant surge or drop in engine thrust.
Holding the rear brake makes the bike slow and less sensitive to throttle inputs, just like the clutch method, but seems less prone to big thrust changes due to small changes in brake pedal position. A more stable system, so to speak.

Alright you experienced riders, what is your opinion on this rear brake method taught yonder in the East?

[emshaferii]

MSF absolutely teaches the friction zone clutch in conjuction with holding the rear brake.....if you aren't doing this, you will likely not be able to keep the bike up during the low speed obstacle courses. I use the friction zone and hold the rear brake in low speed manuevers all the time. We were told that "riding the clutch" in low speed manuevers does absolutely nothing to shorten it's life and should be part of your everyday riding.....I'm amazed what % of our folks feel different...

[JZH]

Rear brake? Surely you mean front and rear brake? (Thanks to LBS...) ;)

Honda clutches rarely wear out, anyway, so I don't think there's really a downside to using the clutch in this way.

Ciao,

[Wolvie]

A typical bike in the safety program will keep the original clutch for 3 years at least. There are some bikes going on 8 years that still have the original clutch.

That is a low-end 250cc bike, with the original low-end clutch ridden by novice students for 5 hours+ a day. In some cases, this is 6 times a week. Your personal bike shouldn't see 10% of that abuse.

Your clutch is a wearable item. It is meant to be easily and inexpensively replaced. Your shifter forks, connecting spline and your gears are not. If you don't properly use the friction zone during low speed maneuvers, you could easily stress these parts with unintentional power pulses...To say nothing of a loss of control under tight, limited space turns.

[dbst1300]

I use the clutch friction zone and the rear brake for low speed operation all the time on all of my bikes....it depends on the situation how much I use them. It is a skill that is intuitive after having ridden off-road bikes for so long. I haven't replaced any internal clutch parts on any bike I've owned since the mid 1970s.

Dennis

[Raven]

MSF absolutely teaches the friction zone clutch in conjuction with holding the rear brake.....

Actually in the "official" MSF curriculum, on the slow tight turns (U-turn box & tight offset weaves), neither the friction zone nor the rear brake drag are explicitly taught. Individual coaches have been know to "share" that information with students but, since it isn't MSF curriculum, YMMV depending on the luck of the draw. In some instatnces, I've seen MSF RiderCoaches chastised by their higher-ups if they even mention _anything_ outside the "official" curriculum like encouraging brake drag in the U-turn box.

just 2 cents

[HankSTer]

Actually in the "official" MSF curriculum, on the slow tight turns (U-turn box & tight offset weaves), neither the friction zone nor the rear brake drag are explicitly taught. Individual coaches have been know to "share" that information with students but, since it isn't MSF curriculum, YMMV depending on the luck of the draw. In some instatnces, I've seen MSF RiderCoaches chastised by their higher-ups if they even mention _anything_ outside the "official" curriculum like encouraging brake drag in the U-turn box.

just 2 cents

This information is absolutely correct. Neither of these techniques is "taught", and if anything, depending on the type of motorcycle (cruiser style vs sport etc), both of these techniques can make it more difficult to counter-weight the bike, at least thats my experience.

I found that just counter-weighting properly was all taht was needed.

regards,

[Raven]

I found that just counter-weighting properly was all taht was needed.


Forgive a little bit of a hi-jack here:

BTW, in teaching MSF classes I've discoverd that students "get" the concept of counter-weighting if I have them practice "doing the hula" prior to the u-turn box. Folks automatically shift their lower body weight in the opposite direction of their heads and hands which works well for shifting weight to the outside peg while doing tight turns. (Pretending like they're an airplane and zooming left or right works well for getting the "feel" of counter-steering).

Of course, friction zone is always a useful skill to develop with finesse.