Snatchy throttle response

[B11RGER]

04, ST with 20,000 miles. has ran a dream as far as the throttle is concerned with the stock airfilter. It does idle at 1100 revs which is a tad high but when I screwed it down to below 1,000 but found the throttle gave the known on/off response. increased the idle speed again and it was fine. (This was the way that the local Honda dealer had it set) I also think the slack on the cable has been taken up.
I have now fitted a K & N filter but the throttle response is now snatchy at low speeds. I know all about the emmission problems etc. Would I be correct in thinking that I will now have to purchase the Turbo Tom FPR if I want to keep the K&N Filter and smooth out the throttle? either that, or go back to to Honda Air filter wich is the cheaper fix.
regards Keith.

[Mellow]

Tom will adjust the FPR in case you have a K&N and/or aftermarket pipes.

So, you can still keep the K&N and get the FPR or go back to the stock filter and still get the FPR. Just let Tom know and he'll fix you up.

[GRN]

FPR is the way to go IMO... smooths out throttle response through the range, and gives better low end grunt. Keep the K&N, add the FPR :D

[wcthalgott]

Does replacing the FPR with a non-OEM part void the warrenty?

[ChipSTer]

It is my understanding that the FPR is OEM... just adjusted differently... (to take out the snatchy throttle response)... Emissions might suffer some, though... I've not heard any definitative discussion on the emissions... :)
:cool:

[Blrfl]

Yes. This is a modified OEM part it will void your warranty.

It doesn't void the entire warranty, but Honda will deny warranty claims if it can be proven that the modification may have contributed to the problem. On the other hand, the service techs at most dealers can barely find their butt with two hands and a flashlight, so the odds that they'll even notice are pretty slim.

--Mark

[Tor]

On the other hand, the service techs at most dealers can barely find their butt with two hands and a flashlight, so the odds that they'll even notice are pretty slim.

It looks just like the OEM too. They wouldn't know what it was even if you showed it to them.

[Byron]

Keith,

Your in Scotland so you just have to be concerned with the laws there. Yes it is a modified factory part and it is more expensive than going back to the stock filter.

Now the reason the RPM is set to 1100 rpm by your tech is so that you don't have that ON/OFF switch feeling at no throttle to slight throttle. With the K&N the engine breaths easier and yes changes the mixture so the ON/OFF feeling returns. With Tom's FPR set for your mods you can even set the rpm to 900 if you want and the ON/OFF is not there. The factory set the programming in the ECU to be lean in the 2 rpm ranges used for EPA testing and that is what is causing the problem.

Only you can decide which way you want to go.

[ironox]

Is the FPR part of the emission system? I doubt it, but I'm not an expert.

[sherob]

Is the FPR part of the emission system? I doubt it, but I'm not an expert.

It's part of the fuel delivery system... and it is against EPA laws to replace OEM parts that will change emissions on your bike. Since this richens up the mixture, it is a violation... you have to decide if it is worth it to yourself. I have it... it was worth it to me :)

[MLRickards]

Has anyone with the FPR had a problem getting their bike's through the inspection where they test the emissions?

[B11RGER]

Thanks for your ideas lads especially Byron, your explanaition, made it clear to me that by fitting a K & N filter , what has happened is supposed to have happened. I contacted Turbo Tom who advises me that it wii cost around $50 to post part to uk. So that would be $150 all inclusive. I will just have to think about it. probably go back to OEM for now thanks again regards Keith.

[DeSTy]

US$50 to post a tiny pressure regulator from the US to the UK???? Wow, talk about "profit taking".

[Blrfl]

Not only will this void the warranty...

You keep saying that, and the Magnuson-Moss Waranty Act (USC Title 15, § 2302(c) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode15/usc_sec_15_00002302----000-.html)) says otherwise. Honda can deny individual warranty claims if it can prove that an aftermarket part contributed to the failure. (And I believe the burden would be on Honda, not the owner.) Making the modification does not void the warranty outright, which is what it sounds like you're implying. Whether or not the TCT FPR legally qualifies as an aftermarket part is murky because it's a genuine Honda part that has been adjusted within its manufactured range of adjustment but not modified. Hair-splitting aside, the chances that the increased pressure would cause a failure are pretty slim, and Honda mechanics smart enough to detect the modification and blow the whistle on a claim are few and far between. If I could find one close by, he'd have a customer for life. Tom's mod seems to have been tested enough that I'd be comfortable making it without losing sleep over whether my engine was going to go kablooey.

The federal tampering prohibition is contained in section 203(a)(3)...

By my reading if the law (IANAL, decide for yourself (http://www.washingtonwatchdog.org/documents/usc/ttl42/ch85/subchII/ptA/sec7522.html)), adjustment of the FPR doesn't pass the test for being an illegal modification. It neither removes, bypasses or renders any of the emission controls inoperative, nor is that its principal purpose. At this point there's no hard data that shows whether or not the modification actually has any effect on how much undesirable crud the bike puts into the air, and until there is, all any of us is doing is pontificating.

:BDH:

Tom is smack in the middle of the land of emission controls, maybe he can find someone with an exhaust gas analyzer to do a before/after comparison. I'd certainly be interested in the results.

--Mark

[Afeist]

Not involved in this discussion or any potential transaction. New guy so have no vested interest in buyer or seller but what I can offer is significant experience shipping packages to the UK FWIW. I'm a collector and dealer of fountain pens and have shipped and received many shipments to Europe and the UK

Depending on weight and service $50 may not be all that unreasonable, or may be. UPS and Fed Ex etc START in the $20s, without insurance. Sure you can airmail for much less -starts about $7 and goes up with weight, but both no tracking an no insurance. Only way to get insurance in excess of $47 sending internationally is to go Global EMS which insured starts at about $30 and goes up with weight. If you are paying by Paypal you can claim you did not receive the goods and they will take the money away from the seller and give it to the buyer unless he can prove beyond any doubt you received it, not that he sent it to you. So the seller has to use a signed-for service not just airmail. If it arrives damaged would you expect the seller to replace it? Then he is sensible to use an insured method, all of which start in the $20s or $30s and go up with weight or value.

I get the same complaints some times ( I don't charge $50, but for unknown buyers I do charge $30 including insurance up to $500 - high end pens can get damn pricey, and weigh for reference in their boxes and packing usually about 1lb.) Even if the buyer says "oh don't worry about that I will waive insurance and tracking right now" they can still claim a package is not received or damaged and get the money taken back from the seller by Paypal or by their credit card company. This is only not an issue if you are paying with bank transfer or international money order, which is unusual. Otherwise the protection for the buyer from any of the payment services mandates that sellers use full value insured, registered, trackable and signed for shipping methods. It MAY be profit taking if these things don't apply (say you've sent an IMO already for a part that would fit in an envelope and needs no insurance or tracking) but for the vast majority of credit card or paypal-funded international sales any seller who cares at all about avoiding the possibility of being ripped off will ship by unavoidably expensive methods.

Now it's very probable that you would not dream of being so unrealistic or dishonest, but how is a seller to know that, especially if he's been burned before like I and many others I know have? Now unless I have seen a name on pen boards for several months and have sold and bought pens to/from the people before, the only way I ship internationally is at least $30 my cost - not even worrying about packing materials or time, since I don't as a rule (again goes up very quickly with weight). Blame Paypal and the credit card companies if the seller is in the same boat, because neither will protect the seller one iota.

[ST1300 Alicia]

There is a big difference between what the dealer can check and what the manufacturer goes Through for emissions certification. The Dealer or the Highway Patrol will only be able to take a small exhaust gas sample at the tail pipe. The manufacturer goes Through an extensive test where the total exhaust gasses are collected from a complete cycle from cold start to warm high speed condition. All of the gasses are then condensed down. The Hydrocarbons, Carbon Monoxide, and Oxides of Nitrogen are weighted and they are expressed in Grams Per Mile. That is a very expensive test and cannot be repeated in the field. ANYTHING on your bike that you change that MIGHT affect this value is considered to be tampering. Now, The question is would they be able to detect subtle changes? The Answer is, Probably not. Question? Would this drive-ability fix cause any mechanical problems. The answer is, Probably not. Will the dealer use any excuse he can find to charge you RETAIL for the Repair instead of charging the factory WHOLESALE. The Answer is, He Probably Will, if he can find a way. The fix is to put the old FPR back on BEFORE taking it in for any warranty repair you think might be a problem. Power Windshield Motor In-op, No problem. Cylinder Head Gasket Leaking, could be a problem. Put ORIGINAL FPR back on. SIMPLE SOLUTION. Is It perfectly legal, NO. Neither is doing 40 MPH in a 35 MPH Zone but we all DO IT. Sometimes life is just a compromise. Is what ENRON did Legal or Right? NO. Will they get away with it? YOU BET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CCC]

I think the FPR actualy reduces the feul pressure, I don't know for sure though.

I have dealt with warrenties in the past and you can bet your bottom dollar that if a manufacture/dealer can find a reason to deny a warrenty claim, regardless of what you or any Mechanic not working for them says, it will be denied. Having said that I have never had a problem with warrenries on any honda products. In fact I had a new in 1982 V45 Saber that Honda changed that cams in without a problem, although it did take them all SUMMER!!!

[ST1300 Alicia]

Dear MilesFromNowhere

I was a Jet Engine Mechanic on Heavy Bombers and Tankers in the USAF for 4 Years. I received my A.S. Degree in Automotive Technology and worked as a Master Technician For a large Toyota Dealership for 25 years. The FPR changes the fuel trim by a couple of percent to compensate for a drive-ability problem created by emissions testing criteria. This will in no way affect the durability of the motorcycle. This would only be a LAME EXCUSE used by the dealer to cause you the owner to in-cure unnecessary expense and to escape their warranty responsibility's. I don't think that I have a LAME WAY OF THINKING. I just Know How To Cross My T's, Dot My I's and FIGHT FOR WHAT IS FAIR. I NEVER SAID YOU SHOULD TREAT THE DEALER OR ANYONE UNFAIRLY. HOWEVER YOU MUST NOT ASSUME THAT EVERYONE WILL TREAT YOU FAIRLY EITHER. In fact you must go into ALL business deals prepared for disaster. This is not a negative way of thinking, just 53 years of life experiences. I have a good reputation and I am respected by most people that I have dealings with. I also have a reputation as someone you would not want to CHEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS thanks for the reminder to put my FPR in my tool kit!

[MidLife]

All very impressive.

The OEM regulator set point is 50 psi. The TT FPR set point is 58 psi (standard air box & exhaust) or 60 psi for K&N. That is roughly a 16 to 20 percent increase.


Alicia is talking about fuel trim percentage, not regulator set pressure.

[B11RGER]

US$50 to post a tiny pressure regulator from the US to the UK???? Wow, talk about "profit taking".
Yeh thats what put me off from ordering one. I have had other items twice the weight and size, sent from the states for half the price with no problems. Any way I have tweeked up the idle speed again as I noticed it had fallen after fitting the K & N filter. It is now back to 1100 rpm at idle, not ideal but also not $150 less in the pocket either.:D

[lbo]

I still have a very "snatchy" throttle response after makeing all the recommended changes. I now have over 5000 miles on my 06. I was just thinking if the fuel injector system on 1300's is different on models made for places other than the U S.
Does anybody know?
Old Desert Rider
LBO

[c-lapier]

Some of the Enron crowd are already in prison.

[ga06rider]

I have a tough enough time successfully prosecuting people in federal court for drug trafficking and illegal firearms possession. Let me know if you get sent away for changing your FPR or stock pipes because I want to move to where you get prosecuted . . . it's obviously a very slow paced location with no real crime to deal with.

[Blrfl]

All it takes is one bored doughnut eater at the EPA...

--Mark

[lbo]

"Snatchy throttle"

I'd like opinions from 07 owners to see if this problem has been eleminated. If it has, perhaps I can solve my "snatchy throttle" as well.
Help, 07ers.
lbo

[bamspringtx]

"Snatchy throttle"

I'd like opinions from 07 owners to see if this problem has been eleminated. If it has, perhaps I can solve my "snatchy throttle" as well.
Help, 07ers.
lbo
Mine has the same throttle response as my brothers 05. I came from a vf700, so I just figured more cc's, more power. I have already gotten used to it.

[PAYogi]

Mine has the same throttle response as my brothers 05. I came from a vf700, so I just figured more cc's, more power. I have already gotten used to it.

Ditto:
My 07 is a bit snatchy right off idle. most of the newer fuel injected bikes I've ridden including my brothers 06 FJR and a friends 919 were both this way. I wouldn't mind trying to solve it, but I'd like to know that changing the FPR is a PROVEN fix. I see some disagreement on that subject. Is TT willing to take the modded FPR back if it doesn't do what is claimed?

[ConqSoft]

It's no more snatchy than any other Honda sportbikes I've owned... Just have to get used to making smooth throttle changes...

[Sailormilan2]

There used to be a real problem with the younger set modifying their little Rice Burner Imports to race with after the movie FAST AND FURIOUS came out.
The local police here in Bakersfield were starting to inspect the engine compartments of the cars during traffic stops. They were then writing tickets for CARB(California Air Resource Board) violations, which were only infractions. But required smog testing and passage to be cleared.
Prior to starting this, they came into the traffic court judge and ask if they could do this. The judge told them they could only inspect the engine compartment if they had permission from the driver/owner. Running into the Search and Seisure rules.
That was a sticky issue. If you suspect someone is violating the law, and you start quesioning them about it, you run the risk of violating their Miranda Rights. Plus searching the engine compartment could constitute search without a search warrent.
So, considering where the FPR is, and what a PITA it is to get to, I highly doubt anyone is going to check it out. Short of a dealer who happens to be working on it.
I live in beautiful downtown California, which has some of the strictest Air Pollution laws around. I have yet to hear of the motorcycles having to go through a smog test, every two years, as cars do. In fact many of the newer cars, don't have to do it that often.

[vossman]

Don't know if this helps or if any of you other folks do it but when I do my practice riding or I am cruising through a parking lot around I usually practice smooth roll on-off of the throttle. It takes some getting used to but it it's starting to become habit while riding.

[bmcdonau]

I thought snatchy throttle response was when my wife snatched my hand off the throttle when I got into it too much from a stop sign.

[lbo]

Lurchy Throttle

Afta 5400 miles on my 06, *****en abt. it being "lurchy" and badly so, after, doing, staintunes, turbo tom's device, k & n filter, which all didn't seem to make a difference it now cured. All it took was a Honda mechanic who knew what he was doing and in a literal moment he re adjusted the throttle cables and the problem was gone. I have now done 400+ miles of trouble free miles.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
LBO:)

[RibsST1300]

I get a lot less "snatchyness" When I use 89 octane gas.I tried 93 octane on 2 fillups and it's back!