Honda has a solution for ST1300 pulling to right.

[STnAV8R]

I discussed with the service mgr at my dealer the fact that with the cruise control set and hands off, my new '06 heads for the weeds to the right, regardless which lane and with the bags empty. My '04 did the same thing and they said it was due to uneven tire wear. They can't say that about the new bike. I also told them to pay extra attention to those front axle bushings when they assembled it, which he said they did. He also said on the ST1300 it is impossible to put them on wrong.

So he discussed it with his Honda Rep, and his reply was that they have never heard of a problem with it, and that the solution is that I should not ride with my hands off the handlebars.

Just thought you all would want to know that Honda has solved this problem.

[Tor]

I had the problem with my 05 pulling just a little to the right. I then changed tires from worn out Battlax tires to a set of Pilot Roads. After that, it has gone straight as an arrow.....:shrug2:

[ShinySideUpAZ]

Fought the same problem, THE HONDA SOUTH WEST SERVICE MANAGER ROAD MY BIKE and said the same thing, don't do that. I got fed up and checked around the net. Several people said the issue was the front wheel not properly installed. There is a very specific procedure on how to torque the pinch bolts on the front. I had my dealership remove the wheel and reinstall using the EXACT procedure called out in the maintanence manual, and guess what? Problem gone.

[Lager]

Ive never had a cruise control on any of my bikes, and the only time I noticed a pull to the right was on decell with both hands off the bars. Chain or shaft drive,on either side.They all did it, 35 plus bikes later,, I thought it was a torque reaction.:confused:

[Medicine Bear]

I had the problem with my 05 pulling just a little to the right. I then changed tires from worn out Battlax tires to a set of Pilot Roads. After that, it has gone straight as an arrow.....:shrug2:
+1 for the Michelins.

Fred :03biker:

[Rob Hephner]

I had my dealership......

And that dealer would be.....?

[EagleSix]

I got the same solution from a local dealer Service Manager last year about the right pull on my 05 ABS. I wanted to try the pinch bolt reset fix, but ended up selling the bike. The tire wear wasn't at fault, although the design of the OEM Dunlops may have been part of the problem. Out of the various bikes I have had (a bunch), the 05 ST13 ABS was the only one to pull right on accelleration or coasting! The pull right can be fixed as many here have posted. Wish I had taken the time to fix it while I had the bike, just for my own satisfaction.

.

[George]

Doubt if it has anything to do with the 1300 (spacers in the front wheel sound interesting, along with the correct sequence on the pinch bolts) but...

I had a similar problem on my 88 Wing. After 6 years and many thousand miles, I finally asked a tech about it at the first Honda Hoot. He called California, they called back and said...

Move the tool kit from the right to the left saddlebag.

Cured the problem. Go figure.

George
in Kingman, Arizona

[gene]

At least it isn't caused by the heat on your jewels or feet!! Mine pulled some till I had the tires changed now it tracks straight.

[vlad]

I really don't understand why this has become such a problem. Name me a single police department that would not cite you for riding down the street with your hands off the handlebars.

I think you guys need to find something else to ***** about because this is without a doubt the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If you want to take both hands off the bars don't ***** about anything the bike does because you are not in control.

Typical response you're apt to get for asking a reasonable question.

Vlad:)

[STnAV8R]

I really don't understand why this has become such a problem. Name me a single police department that would not cite you for riding down the street with your hands off the handlebars.

I think you guys need to find something else to ***** about because this is without a doubt the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If you want to take both hands off the bars don't ***** about anything the bike does because you are not in control.

Thank you for your constructive comments.

I don't want it to track straight so that I can ride hands off. I ride hands off, for a few seconds, so that I can check if it tracks straight. If it does not track straight it will cause uneven tire wear because I have to hold constant left turn pressure to counter the right veer tendency. It's also a safety issue because if my attention is diverted and left turn pressure relaxed it will head for the weeds.

If your 4 wheeled vehicle does not track straight wouldn't you get it fixed?

[Jefro]

Paul, back off.
There are six guys on this thread that have a very real concern about the handling of their bikes at speed. By putting their issue before the collective wisdom of hundreds of riders on this board, they hope to gain some insight into possible causes.
I generally look foward to your comments on many issues because you sound very, very knowledgable.
Jefro.

[Elmo]

Paul, back off.
There are six guys on this thread that have a very real concern about the handling of their bikes at speed. By putting their issue before the collective wisdom of hundreds of riders on this board, they hope to gain some insight into possible causes.
I generally look foward to your comments on many issues because you sound very, very knowledgable.
Jefro.

Yeah Paul, what's wrong witch you, Willis?

Elmo

[Putt]

First set of tires O.E.M. Battleaxes.... Pulled to the right not hard but it did pull..
Second set Z6/880 combo..... Tracked perfectly straight....
Third set Z6/880 combo..... Pulls slightly to the right...
OEM's set up by the dealer that I bought the bike from...
2nd set installed by a different dealer....
3rd set installed by original dealer.... maybe a pattern developing???
next set 880/880 will be changed by 2nd dealer.... just to see how
it tracks... Maybe it is the sequence used in setting the front axle,
but with all the bikes pulling to the right?? unless all the dealers are
installing them the same way...... Nah, just one of those un-answerable
cosmic questions.....


Putt....

[pmorritt]

Never had a tracking problem on my '05. 10k and changed Stones for PR's. Remounted myself. Thanks to this site-someone (thankyou) reminded me to adjust the ft wheel upon remounting--torque lt pinch bolt-put wheel on ground-move ft suspention up/down a few times -then torque rt pinch bolt. Tracks straight as an arrow.
Now Paul, And I say this with lot's of Love--Chill out brother. How did I check that it was tracking straight? Hands off--brother. You got a better way? I've been riding for 45 years and retired LAPD with 32+ years. No cop I know would give a ticket to someone who for 3 seconds loosened their grip on the bars to check tracking. We're not talking stand on the seat and beat your chest stuff.

[EagleSix]

For me the “pull to the right” was not a problem. If it were I would have stopped riding until it was fixed. It was annoying, but not near as annoying to me, as the “heat issue” and the “instability at high speed” issue has been to some others. I simply wanted to comment on the fact the 05 13 ABS I had for 7K miles also had a “pull right” condition. The pull right was greater at slow speeds than it was at high speeds. I didn’t expect to be insulted about it, but so be it. Sure glad he doesn’t own the roads!

My biggest issue about the “pull right” is that I didn’t get it fixed, so I would know for sure first hand what the fix was for my bike, as there are some without the issue, some who still have it, those who had it, overcome it, and have it again, and then those who had it and fixed it. It seems most of the fixes were resetting the pinch bolts, or new tires (which require resetting the pinch bolts!!).

As for riding with hands off the handlebars…..straight line tracking of a bike has little to do with taking your hands off the grips. It has to do with the geometry and tracking of a 2-wheel vehicle. All things being equal, a modern designed bike, after being pointed straight, should track straight at speeds above 15 MPH without pilot input. It should not require counter steering to go straight.

.

[Nevada]

One simple consideration that needs to be ruled out is the inexorable and sometimes harsh role that gravity can play. Simply put, does it pull to the right when you're riding across a perfectly flat surface, or is it only attemptin' to dive for the weeds on highly cambered roads?

[Scaredy Cat]

No probs on my 05 either. Only been through 3 sets of tyres, but I removed and remounted the wheels myself without any special procedures or anything, and without using a torque wrench (shock, horror :eek: ). I've got a throttle rocker and I can just hold it in two fingers while riding. You can then steer by using body weight, if you don't it will obviously eventually go off in one direction or another.

[Spencer]

Dozens of posts about a pull to the right and tire cupping on the VTX board also.
Living in South FL our roads are either heavily crowned or pitched completely
to one side (both lanes same direction of pitch) because of our intense storms.
So the road pitch varies depending on location and type.
Typically highways are crowned and rural roads pitched toward the side with
a drainage canal. This means your tires have a variety of situations each ride.
I have not had a problem with either bike pulling or strange tire wear?

Ride safe, Spencer

[vlad]

Are you telling me you are putting pressure on the handle bars to keep the bike straight down the road? I will stick to my original comment. This is without a doubt the stupidest ***** I have ever heard of. If you take both hands off the handle bars for any reason what so ever you are not in control of the vehicle and I don't want you on the road with me. So what are you going to do adjust the bike for the crown in the road? The Wind?
You guys are looking for problems that just aren't there. Why not spend a little more time riding the bike and a lot less time trying to fix a non problem.

Another typical response to a serious problem. In addition to everything HE doesn't want you on the road with HIM. I guess the road belongs to HE. Then finally the advice you have been looking for, "spend a little more time riding the bike, and a lot less time trying to fix a non problem".

Vlad:bow1:

[Burger]

Vlad.

So far I've given you the benefit of the doubt regarding your posts and their purpose. While others are convinced you are only here as a troll I have chosen to believe some of your concerns have a valid foundation. This latest response however is getting very close to the mark where it appears you are interested in nothing other than an argument with someone.

You often criticise others for their dogged attitude to non problems of the ST, and yet you demonstrate the exact same dogged attitude to the problems you believe it has. While you are not prepared to consider a middle ground yourself, I don't see how you can expect anyone else to.

Regards,

[sherob]

Another typical response to a serious problem. In addition to everything HE doesn't want you on the road with HIM. I guess the road belongs to HE. Then finally the advice you have been looking for, "spend a little more time riding the bike, and a lot less time trying to fix a non problem".

Vlad:bow1:

I find it interesting that every issue you have with the ST is "serious". Pulling to the right without your hands on the bars is not a serious problem... your hands not on the bars is a serious problem. Roads, wind, weight distribution, tire condition, even the shaft on the ST contribute to a pull to the right.

A little less :soapbox and over dramatization will go a long way to getting your opinions accepted by others.

[tdeboeser]

A typical FJR fan-boy[/COLOR]]Another typical response to a serious problem. In addition to everything HE doesn't want you on the road with HIM. I guess the road belongs to HE. Then finally the advice you have been looking for, "spend a little more time riding the bike, and a lot less time trying to fix a non problem".

Vlad:bow1:

The FJR doesn't do this .... right vlad? In fact the FJR, is not only lighter, faster, more comfortable, handles better, but it'll make your bed, cook your dinner, and fix itself.


:banghead: ARG!!! I'm a troll feeder....

Tom de

[UNTMatt]

1) Remove tires and ride on railroad tracks. Problem solved.

2) Clutch it up, ride on one. Problem solved.

Now, back to our regular scheduled programming, 'Heat and the ST, real or myth?'

[c-lapier]

I think George is right. I noticed a slight pull to the right after reading about it on yhis sight. I moved my extra tools<inc. footpump,jumper cables, qt.oil>, rainsuit etc to the left/inside saddlebag , now I ride no-handed all the time.

[Yogi]

I think George is right. I noticed a slight pull to the right after reading about it on yhis sight. I moved my extra tools<inc. footpump,jumper cables, qt.oil>, rainsuit etc to the left/inside saddlebag , now I ride no-handed all the time.

Actually I was reading through this thread and had some thoughts

1st When more then one person mentions a problem it probably is a problem at least for some.

2nd Not everyone rides dead center in their saddle so seating postion may also play a part in some of the instances cited but I would never say they were all that.

3rd This last weekend I had a couple chances to check this out on my bike and it seemed to tack pretty straight but I carry my rain gear and tools all on the left side of the bike along with some cold weather gear so the Left side is normally heavier then the right. Then again I was on a trip and had a bag strapped to the rack and a bag with clothes in the right saddlebag but the left side is still heavier.

4th To those who are exhibiting this problem how severe is it..I mean is it a gradual drift to the right or something more severe? Any Mods done to Windshields? Extra Lights? Anything else that would catch wind?

5th How big are you all Height and weight (wondering if this might be more prevalent for a certain sized individual

[Medicine Bear]

I'm 6'2" and 260#. I tried out my '03 ST to see if it was pulling to the right and it did. I moved over to the left on the seat and it pulled to the left. I readjusted slightly to the right and it tracked straight. This with nothing in the side bags, no top box, no wind, (probably) level road.

(Non)problem solved.

Fred :03biker:

[tccox]

Good grief folks. Pulling to the right is also the number two complaint on the BMW boards (surging number 1). Hmmmm, lets see both shaft drive, both engine cranks running north/south....................

[Mellow]

Yeah, IMHO, I think it's just the geometry and config of the bike/motor.. if you see a dragster go off the like the first thing that happens is the motor twists and then twists, or tries to, the entire dragster...

The drivetrain also has, again, IMHO, the same effect whether you're accelerating or slowing down.. even in neutral, there is some lag by the driveline...

That's what I think anyway... :nuts1: :popcorn

[Tor]

:shrug2: The FJR doesn't do this .... right vlad? In fact the FJR, is not only lighter, faster, more comfortable, handles better, but it'll make your bed, cook your dinner, and fix itself.


:banghead: ARG!!! I'm a troll feeder....

Tom de

:crackup yep, don't be feeding the stirrers. They love it. I thought we ran that troll off a while back,,,,,,:shrug2:

We solved this problem (uhh the pulling problem) a long time ago. Paul solved the pulling problem by placing 6 bricks in the left saddlebag. He tried several types, and he finally concluded that red bricks worked best.

[Blrfl]

Paul solved the pulling problem by placing 6 bricks in the left saddlebag. He tried several types, and he finally concluded that red bricks worked best.

Were they solid bricks of the kind with the holes in them?

--Mark

[ParkerBill]

I noticed the same pull to the right on my new '06 ST from the time I bought it until less than two months later when I totaled it. No, I was not riding with my hands off the bars when I crashed. It had the stock Bridgestone tires on it, in case anyone is wondering. I did not consider it a "big" problem, just figured it was something to do with the design of the bike. I planned to keep an eye to see if I experienced any "funny/odd" tire wear, but of course, the bike only had, 3,750 miles on it when I totaled it, so I cannot add more to the tire wear thoughts.

My '04 Shadow Spirit 750 did not pull to the right, but it had chain drive.

I tried moving my butt to different sides of the seat, to no avail, and I tried other things, too, like riding on different sides of the lane, etc., but nothing really helped.

Like I said, I didn't consider it a real problem, but if my next new '06 pulls, I think I'll have the dealer do the remove/reinstall the front wheel thing, following the correct procedures someone else quoted on this thread. Thanks for the post.

[Tor]

Were they solid bricks of the kind with the holes in them?

--Mark

Solid fireproof red bricks with no holes. http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/deal.gif I should add that I now sometimes have a "problem" with the bike pulling straight up, even while holding on to the handlebars for dear :eek: life. http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/Jack.gif Anyone else had this happen?

[Britman]

Solid fireproof red bricks with no holes. http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/deal.gif I should add that I now sometimes have a "problem" with the bike pulling straight up, even while holding on to the handlebars for dear :eek: life. http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/Jack.gif Anyone else had this happen?


Are they synthetic? If so how many miles before you have to change them?

Is there a spcific way to fit them, top/bottom & left/right?
:D

[dteel]

I’m not certain that what you are describing is a characteristic of the bike’s handling. My father worked in quarries and road construction (retired USN Seabee, EOC) and he told me that all roads are cambered so some degree to promote draining. It seems to me that the “pull to the right” would be a normal result of riding on a cambered surface. When I was about 17 he took the time to explain this to me when I told him that if I tried driving down the road with my hands off the wheel (driving a cage) it always headed for the right ditch. He said that if I was on an otherwise empty road try the same thing from the left lane (pretend I was in the UK I guess). I found that the vehicle drifted to the left when I did this. Since some have found solutions I don’t know if this is a reasonable explanation or not. I would be curious to know the results of a similar test (as the one my dad proposed to me). For those who are experiencing this condition, how about it?

[STony G]

I noticed that every time I took my feet off the ground, I fell to the right and landed on my shoulder. After moving my wallet to my left rear pocket and tieing my shoes in the recommended sequence (check the box, it's there), I now fall directly on my knees.:D

I love this site :bow1: .

[pmorritt]

:shrug2:

:crackup yep, don't be feeding the stirrers. They love it. I thought we ran that troll off a while back,,,,,,:shrug2:

We solved this problem (uhh the pulling problem) a long time ago. Paul solved the pulling problem by placing 6 bricks in the left saddlebag. He tried several types, and he finally concluded that red bricks worked best.
:crackup :crackup :crackup :crackup :crackup :crackup

[tdeboeser]

Solid fireproof red bricks with no holes. http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/deal.gif I should add that I now sometimes have a "problem" with the bike pulling straight up, even while holding on to the handlebars for dear :eek: life. http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/Jack.gif Anyone else had this happen?

No, this problem doesn't exist - if you use the right bricks. I'm working on a farkel to improve the bricks - i'll have it on sale after beta testing.

I was working on a FJR version, but Vlad reminded me it was not necessary - the FJR auto-compensates for this ( and many other things - like light-speed vs. mass :twisted:)

Tom de

[Scaredy Cat]

Does moving the toolkit to the left saddlebag work for '06 owners too with their allen key and piece of foam?
:D

[Skywriter]

Just chiming in...

Mark has some factual repair history that bears consideration....
...the front wheel re-install with precise torque solved his drifty issues.

Paul also has a good-but-subtle point...
These days almost every roadbed including surface streets have a turtleback design -- crowned at the center to improve drainage and prevent standing water. Visually imperceptible, this side load will give us some drift to the outside edge of the roadbed.

For the record.... My '03 has midlife BT020's... and it is rock solid straight at interstate "normal" speeds. No cruise control or throttle lock (yet).

Lighten up a little guys... there is a huge well of valuable expertise here.

I hope we can maintain the spirit of cooperation and friendship here, as we enjoy the ride and the camaraderie of owning these so-cool bikes

[SupraSabre]

Dave and I were just talking about this thread and Dave came up with an idea, what if you added some spacers to the left side of the windshield and that way the wind would push a bit to the left and maybe compensate for the right pull. Any volunteers to try it? :D

[EagleSix]

Some good thoughts and suggestions have been posted, however in my case they have been covered……

Actually I was reading through this thread and had some thoughts

2nd Not everyone rides dead center in their saddle so seating postion may also play a part in some of the instances cited but I would never say they were all that.


I agree…..it is a part of weight and balance (pilots on this board knows from their “weight and balance” training how important this can be for any vehicle not stabilized on less than three points, motorcycles, aircraft, boats, etc.). From a center seated position, a 1” offset to the right aggravated the pull-right, and took 4” offset to the left to counter the pull-right at about 25 MPH. [/QUOTE]

3rd This last weekend I had a couple chances to check this out on my bike and it seemed to tack pretty straight but I carry my rain gear and tools all on the left side of the bike along with some cold weather gear so the Left side is normally heavier then the right. Then again I was on a trip and had a bag strapped to the rack and a bag with clothes in the right saddlebag but the left side is still heavier.

Putting heavier items in the left bag would be in effect loading the bike and adjusting the weight and balance to counter the right-pull. It doesn’t necessarily fix the problem, but does adjust the balance (or throw it out). My pull-right was a stock bike with empty bags and compartments.

4th To those who are exhibiting this problem how severe is it..I mean is it a gradual drift to the right or something more severe? Any Mods done to Windshields? Extra Lights? Anything else that would catch wind?

All good points Tom. Again, my bike was stock, no mods, no load other than me! At highway speeds, the nature of the bike stability (spinning gyros), reduced the pull-right, so a few seconds off the grips before it was heading for the berm. At slower speeds, 15-25 MPH it was worse. At the slower speed, it wasn’t so bad that it would leap off the road into a ditch the moment you took pressure off the grip, however, in maybe 25 feet, I was off the road center and closing on the curb.



I’m not certain that what you are describing is a characteristic of the bike’s handling. My father worked in quarries and road construction (retired USN Seabee, EOC) and he told me that all roads are cambered so some degree to promote draining. It seems to me that the “pull to the right” would be a normal result of riding on a cambered surface. When I was about 17 he took the time to explain this to me when I told him that if I tried driving down the road with my hands off the wheel (driving a cage) it always headed for the right ditch. He said that if I was on an otherwise empty road try the same thing from the left lane (pretend I was in the UK I guess). I found that the vehicle drifted to the left when I did this. Since some have found solutions I don’t know if this is a reasonable explanation or not. I would be curious to know the results of a similar test (as the one my dad proposed to me). For those who are experiencing this condition, how about it?

Good point. Any surface other than perfectly flat and smooth is going to have some type of influence on the tracking of a 2 wheel vehicle as well as other type vehicles. The road surfaces I noticed this issue first were exactly the type you would think may have an adverse effect, so I found road(s), and a position on those road(s) which were relatively flat and smooth to confirm the issue.

.

[Medicine Bear]

My father worked in quarries and road construction (retired USN Seabee, EOC) and he told me that all roads are cambered so some degree to promote draining. It seems to me that the “pull to the right” would be a normal result of riding on a cambered surface.
I wonder if our UK bretheren notice a pull to the left?

Fred :03biker:

[Medicine Bear]

I have decided to go the quantum physics route. I had my wife put bricks in one side case. She didn't tell me which one. If I try to observe which case has the bricks in it, it will skew the results. Suffice to say, the bike will track straight as long as I don't try to determine which side the bricks are on. I call this phenomenon "linked bricks". :D

Fred :03biker:

[sherob]

I have decided to go the quantum physics route. I had my wife put bricks in one side case. She didn't tell me which one. If I try to observe which case has the bricks in it, it will skew the results. Suffice to say, the bike will track straight as long as I don't try to determine which side the bricks are on. I call this phenomenon "linked bricks". :D

Fred :03biker:

I put bricks on both sides...All Bricks Sides or ABS ;)

[Burger]

I wonder if our UK bretheren notice a pull to the left?

Fred :03biker:

Good thought but no... we're in the northern hemisphere too... now, it might be worth asking our Australian members :D

[sherob]

I wonder if our UK bretheren notice a pull to the left?

Fred :03biker:

I would have to say it pulls hard left for them since they ride on the wrong side of the road :D

[Medicine Bear]

Good thought but no... we're in the northern hemisphere too... now, it might be worth asking our Australian members :D
I was thinking more along the lines of the road camber leaning leftward over there. :)

Fred :03biker:

[Don-STOC237]

Interesting discussion. I, like George, have found that putting more weight in one saddlebag will cause the bike to move toward that side.

Rider inputs, even though not perceived, may have something to do with it too. Does everyone sit exactly in the center of the seat, without leaning or weighting one side or another? I doubt it.

Reminds me of an experience I had with my wife a few years ago. She complained that her horse kept wandering off to the left all the time and she had to keep correcting her. (Horse riding is a hands-off activity if done correctly). I observed her for awhile from the back, and discovered that she was sitting slightly (a couple inches) off to the right on her saddle. Horses move away from pressure, and this horse was just doing what she thought she was being told to do. My wife had no idea that she tended to sit non-centered in the seat and it took practice for her to correct that habit.

This is a possible explanation for the wandering bike problem as well. Try it yourself sometime. Take your hands off the bars on a straight stretch of road and shift your weight slightly to one side or another, and observe what happens.

[Scaredy Cat]

Interesting discussion. I, like George, have found that putting more weight in one saddlebag will cause the bike to move toward that side.

Rider inputs, even though not perceived, may have something to do with it too. Does everyone sit exactly in the center of the seat, without leaning or weighting one side or another? I doubt it.

Reminds me of an experience I had with my wife a few years ago. She complained that her horse kept wandering off to the left all the time and she had to keep correcting her. (Horse riding is a hands-off activity if done correctly). I observed her for awhile from the back, and discovered that she was sitting slightly (a couple inches) off to the right on her saddle. Horses move away from pressure, and this horse was just doing what she thought she was being told to do. My wife had no idea that she tended to sit non-centered in the seat and it took practice for her to correct that habit.

This is a possible explanation for the wandering bike problem as well. Try it yourself sometime. Take your hands off the bars on a straight stretch of road and shift your weight slightly to one side or another, and observe what happens.

Don, I agree. And when you say "shift your weight", it's easy to think you're doing that but actually your C of G stays the same. I can sit on the edge of my seat and track straight, because I am unconsciously keeping my C of G central. If you move your centre of gravity (my beer belly in my case) to one side then the bike turns that way.
BTW, I'm in UK and the left camber doesn't produce any left pull.

[ChipSTer]

...Take your hands off the bars on a straight stretch of road and shift your weight slightly to one side or another, and observe what happens...
I would recommend doing this in the opposite order... Shift, then take you hands off the bars... :D
:cool:

[Don-STOC237]

Don't tell me you've never put your throttle lock on, let go of the bars and experimented with steering with just weight shift?

It's easy and fun, try it sometime, but make sure there's no oncoming traffic.

We find things like this to amuse ourselves out on the deserted backroads of Nevada. :D

[naturally wired]

:-) First off my bike goes straight(.) hands or no hands(.)....If your bike truely tracks straight then you ride on a crowned road there will be a very slight pull ...left or right ..depending on which side your on....unless your compinsating for it(.).......but I still contend for some its :butt1:placement

[ParkerBill]

Does moving the toolkit to the left saddlebag work for '06 owners too with their allen key and piece of foam?
:D

Nope, I tried that... :D

[vb03st]

I have an '03 that has pulled right since I bought it new. I also currently own three other bikes (yamaha R1, R6, and FZ1) and have owned many other bikes over the 22 years that I've been riding.

While I've noticed that ST1300 owners seem to be a rather persnickety bunch, let me assure those of you that do not have the pulling problem that with some of our bikes, mine included, it is DEFINATELY NOT a case of being too picky!

I haven't solved the problem yet, but here's my tests and observations (by the way, my ST has 10,900 miles on OEM Stones and I'm 6' and 180 lbs):

1) At 25 mph, no cargo in bags, to ride no-hands straight I have to sit with my left butt cheek completely hanging off and my body leaned to the left about 30 degrees.

2) Bike handled the same when new with no tire wear (rules out tire wear theory - although my front tire is worn noticably more on left side now, I believe it's unrelated - more on that if anyone's interested).

3) When riding on a road with a fairly severe crown and riding on the LEFT SIDE OF THE ROAD, ie. camber banking left (no safety comments needed about riding no-handed on the wrong side of the road :22yikes: ), it still pulls right about the same, maybe a little less but not much less. This rules out the road crown theory.

4) It takes about 30 lbs of weight in the left bag to make a noticable lessening in the pull to the right. Rules out the "move the toolbag around" theory.

5) All three of my other current bikes track perfecly straight with me riding them no-handed, even on crowned roads. Rules out the "you may subconciously sit crooked on your bike" theory.

This problem has always annoyed me but as it is the only shaft drive, transverse V4 I've ever owned, I had always assumed that this was a characteristic of its design until I started reading this forum and found out that not everyone's ST does this, and of the ones that do pull, they seem to do it to varying degrees.

I've just downloaded the Honda instructions for properly removing and mounting the front wheel and will try that in the next couple of days to see if it makes a difference. It seems promising because 1) It's likely that my dealer may not have bothered to bounce the forks in between tightening the left and right pinch bolts, and 2) this could explain why several people have reported that the pulling stopped once they switched tires (the mechanic who switched the tires may have finally installed the front wheel correctly). I'll also check to make sure that the spacers are proper.

[B11RGER]

I wonder if our UK bretheren notice a pull to the left?

Fred :03biker:
I used to hang to the left until I had the operation;) :weights1:

[B11RGER]

Don't tell me you've never put your throttle lock on, let go of the bars and experimented with steering with just weight shift?

It's easy and fun, try it sometime, but make sure there's no oncoming traffic.

We find things like this to amuse ourselves out on the deserted backroads of Nevada. :D
Hey Don, I usually fall asleep and let Shona take over:eek:

[Tor]

Now this, my friends, is the kind of tread I like reading through after a good supper. :D . Top notch entertainment. I can 'Harley' wait for Coop's explanation regarding this phenomenom (did I spell that right). Coze I just know he's got one.
:popcorn

[Tor]

4) It takes about 30 lbs of weight in the left bag to make a noticable lessening in the pull to the right. Rules out the "move the toolbag around" theory.

:crackup You thought we were kiddin about the 6 red bricks, didn't ya? So you just had to try it, huh. Thats how you came up with 30 pounds, right. Well we didn't weigh'em. We just tossed 6 in there, and it happened to work. :crackup

[vlad]

Hi,

WHEW! I must say that I have never experienced the pulling problem on the ST, for which I'm very gratefull. I can't imagine adding to the furor by complaining that my ST is pulling to the left or right. For the record the ST doesn't pull, except when I apply the throttle. Then it pulls very well.

Lot's of good, helpfull responses on this thread.

Vlad

[vlad]

No, this problem doesn't exist - if you use the right bricks. I'm working on a farkel to improve the bricks - i'll have it on sale after beta testing.

I was working on a FJR version, but Vlad reminded me it was not necessary - the FJR auto-compensates for this ( and many other things - like light-speed vs. mass :twisted:)

Tom de

I wish I had known earlier, before I sold the FJR. I might have decided to keep it, despite the fact that it roasted me.

Vlad

[Tom Wright]

Marin Phil your right on time!! If you follow the torque sequence the bike will run straight as an arrow, every time, with any Michelin tire! The key is to compress the tubes like your pi***ed as can be. This must align the axle thingie or something, I pulled mine against the wall and got help!!
T

[vlad]

Vlad.

So far I've given you the benefit of the doubt regarding your posts and their purpose. While others are convinced you are only here as a troll I have chosen to believe some of your concerns have a valid foundation. This latest response however is getting very close to the mark where it appears you are interested in nothing other than an argument with someone.

You often criticise others for their dogged attitude to non problems of the ST, and yet you demonstrate the exact same dogged attitude to the problems you believe it has. While you are not prepared to consider a middle ground yourself, I don't see how you can expect anyone else to.

Regards,

In case you didn't understand the purpose of the comment let me clarify it for you.
Someone makes a complaint about a problem. The first response from the helpfull is to solve the dilema.
Second tier of response comes from people who share the same issue. I thinks it's called a common experience.
Third level of response comes from more people trying to help with a solution.
Fourth level comes from the hardcore, who now start to defend their ST, usually by disparaging the owners comments/observations and trying to prove that the problem doesn't exist.
My point is that sometimes serious issues are treated with disrespect. Maybe I'm being too subtle. Which category does "*****ing" fall into?
Vlad

[ironox]

Yup, mine pulls to the right. So did my R1100RT, R1150R and K1200LT. It just doesn't bother me. I walk with a limp too.

[STnAV8R]

Are you telling me you are putting pressure on the handle bars to keep the bike straight down the road?

Ummmm.... yeah. If it goes right with no hands, then to get it to go straight you have to apply left turn pressure. Right? I mean, correct?

[STnAV8R]

One simple consideration that needs to be ruled out is the inexorable and sometimes harsh role that gravity can play. Simply put, does it pull to the right when you're riding across a perfectly flat surface, or is it only attemptin' to dive for the weeds on highly cambered roads?

To rule out road crown I always check from both lanes and the center line, and also the bags are empty so as not to alter the CG.

[STnAV8R]

Actually I was reading through this thread and had some thoughts

1st When more then one person mentions a problem it probably is a problem at least for some.

2nd Not everyone rides dead center in their saddle so seating postion may also play a part in some of the instances cited but I would never say they were all that.

3rd This last weekend I had a couple chances to check this out on my bike and it seemed to tack pretty straight but I carry my rain gear and tools all on the left side of the bike along with some cold weather gear so the Left side is normally heavier then the right. Then again I was on a trip and had a bag strapped to the rack and a bag with clothes in the right saddlebag but the left side is still heavier.

4th To those who are exhibiting this problem how severe is it..I mean is it a gradual drift to the right or something more severe? Any Mods done to Windshields? Extra Lights? Anything else that would catch wind?

5th How big are you all Height and weight (wondering if this might be more prevalent for a certain sized individual

2. My Russell seat's bucket shape pretty much forces you to the center. But I've played with it to see if a weight shift can counter the right veer... I can lean WAY over to the left and it's not enough.

3. My bags are empty.

4. The word "severe" is subjective, but I would characterise it as a nuisance, not a severe problem. My bike is stock except for Honda top case and elec cruise control.

5. 6' 180lb. Don't think size of the rider is a factor provided the weight is centered.

[STnAV8R]

I’m not certain that what you are describing is a characteristic of the bike’s handling. My father worked in quarries and road construction (retired USN Seabee, EOC) and he told me that all roads are cambered so some degree to promote draining. It seems to me that the “pull to the right” would be a normal result of riding on a cambered surface. When I was about 17 he took the time to explain this to me when I told him that if I tried driving down the road with my hands off the wheel (driving a cage) it always headed for the right ditch. He said that if I was on an otherwise empty road try the same thing from the left lane (pretend I was in the UK I guess). I found that the vehicle drifted to the left when I did this. Since some have found solutions I don’t know if this is a reasonable explanation or not. I would be curious to know the results of a similar test (as the one my dad proposed to me). For those who are experiencing this condition, how about it?

Thanks, but in my first post I indicated it pulls right in both lanes... meaning the crown is not the cause. Or at least not the entire cause.

[Lager]

Paul is our staright and narrow here.What he might say,will offend some,, but hes consistant and truthfull..He is also a wealth of Information that can and will help you in the future. ;)

[STnAV8R]

Dave and I were just talking about this thread and Dave came up with an idea, what if you added some spacers to the left side of the windshield and that way the wind would push a bit to the left and maybe compensate for the right pull. Any volunteers to try it? :D

I think you are referring to what on an aircraft would be called a trim tab.

[STnAV8R]

Those of you that have an alignment/tracking issue, how many can say they know that the procedure given in the service manual for installing the front wheel was followed?

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=49962&postcount=10

The key to good front wheel alignment involves following these instructions precisely. The axle is torqued, then the right pinch bolts, but the left pinch bolts are left loose while the forks are bounced hard with the front brakes applied firmly while the bike is on the center stand so as to center the front wheel and align it within the calipers. Then the left pinch bolts are torqued.

Sure, the torque settings are important, but doing every step, in the right order, is more important for alignment.

Those of you with tracking or pull issues: Why not try this and report back?

This is the most useful advice I've seen, though all is apreciated. I'll send it over to the dealer and see what they say. I was not aware of that procedure.

FWIW, I didn't intend to start a big thread on this with fighting, etc. I just thought some might be amused by what the dealer told me.

[STnAV8R]

In case you didn't understand the purpose of the comment let me clarify it for you.
Someone makes a complaint about a problem. The first response from the helpfull is to solve the dilema.
Second tier of response comes from people who share the same issue. I thinks it's called a common experience.
Third level of response comes from more people trying to help with a solution.
Fourth level comes from the hardcore, who now start to defend their ST, usually by disparaging the owners comments/observations and trying to prove that the problem doesn't exist.
My point is that sometimes serious issues are treated with disrespect. Maybe I'm being too subtle. Which category does "*****ing" fall into?
Vlad

I understood your point, and didn't really understand the "trolling" comments.

[GregSTer]

This is a peave of mine as well. My VTX1800 did it. And of course my ST1300 does it just like yours. It's a matter of tourque, a natural law of physics, depends on the mass of rotating components. They could balance it out by rotating a carefully calculated mass in the opposite direction. I never noticed this problem on a Kawasaki or a BMW or a Guzzi... I think Honda intentionaly designs in just a slight right pull to the right to force us to keep a hand on the bars.

[Don-STOC237]

With all the horrible, disgusting, unsolvable, life-threatening problems this poorly-engineered POS ST1300 has, I doubt if I'll ever get one. After all, this is obviously the worst bike Honda has put on the road in decades. I don't know why you guys don't all take every last one of them back to the dealers and just park them in front and do a sit-down hunger strike until you get your money back.

I know one thing, I'm hanging on to my ST1100 for a long time. Runs great, doesn't dive for the weeds, doesn't have any fancy electronics to get screwed up, doesn't get too hot on the crotch and legs, doesn't tick tick tick (ooops, that's the FJR isn't it), doesn't need premium gasoline, didn't have 27 recalls.

Heck, what a bunch of suckers you guys are to buy those crappy ST1300's. I'm sure glad I didn't waste my money on one of them. I hope all you guys going to WeSTOC on ST1300's don't just blow up halfway there. It's likely to happen to most all of you, you know. And the rest will undoubtedly fall apart on the way home. I mean, you don't have a chance, why risk even getting on one of those tomorrow.

I bet you must feel stupid for buying one, eh? Sure glad I didn't fall for that sales pitch and that pretty plastic shell.







(Note: for the humor-impaired, this was satire. Now, GO RIDE!)

[Scaredy Cat]

This is a peave of mine as well. My VTX1800 did it. And of course my ST1300 does it just like yours. It's a matter of tourque, a natural law of physics, depends on the mass of rotating components. They could balance it out by rotating a carefully calculated mass in the opposite direction. I never noticed this problem on a Kawasaki or a BMW or a Guzzi... I think Honda intentionaly designs in just a slight right pull to the right to force us to keep a hand on the bars.

Seriously? :eek:

So I take it they must design a pull to the left for UK models.
I wonder how they manage that......
The ST has no shaft torque reaction that I can detect. If it was torque causing it, the bike would pull the other way on the over-run, i.e. when the wheel/shaft is driving the engine such as when using engine braking to decelerate.

[dteel]

Don, you kill me......hehehehehe

[dteel]

Thanks, but in my first post I indicated it pulls right in both lanes... meaning the crown is not the cause. Or at least not the entire cause.

Bob, wow, I went back and seen what you submitted and you know, you're right you did say that. Guess some of the details got lost along the way. Only goes to prove that as you get older the hearing is the first to go......or was that the memory......dratz, .... I can never remember which it is. I'm definatly not 17 any more........ <sigh>

Harder for me to analyze this issue since I haven't noticed any pulling on my ride. Guess I'm just lucky.

[Burger]

OK, serious question... I understand that you've fitted a cruise control and so don't need at all times to control the throttle. I also understand you US guys have miles and miles of straight roads. But, what I really don't understand is under what circumstances do you want to ride with your hands off the bars? It just doesn't make any sense to me that you want to be doing any speed at all on a motorcycle and not be in full control of it for when the unexpected or unanticipated happens. Pot hole you couldn't see because of shadows or something, deer running out from trees, bird flying across your path, diesel spill you hadn't spotted etc etc etc. There are loads of things that could happen and you'd be off before you could even think about trying to grab the bars.

Absolutely not trying to pick a fight here, I'd just like to understand why some of you feel the advice of "Don't ride with your hands off the bars" is unnacceptable.

As for pulling to the right, I think there are many reasons that could occurr..

Longitudonaly mounted engine will contribute. Not the shaft drive, but the gyroscopic effects of the crank shaft etc. Assuming that looking from the rear the crankshaft turns clockwise? (I don't know). However, if this were the reason, then they would all do it.

Brake binding more on the right than the left. As it seems some are not overly concerned with being in control at all times... try unbolting the brake calipers, tie them away from the wheels and see if the problem is gone :D (That's not a serious suggestion by the way).

More worn right wheel bearing - although I think that would have to be seriously bad on the right.

Cables and wiring binding or too tight on the right of the steering head. With the bike on the center stand, push the back down... do the bars always fall to the right from middle? Have you got risers fitted and had to re-route anything or it's left you with more slack on one side than the other?

Those would be the areas I'd look at but I genuinely don't understand this desire to be out of control in the first place.

Regards,

[ironox]

A well designed and mechanically sound bike should track perfectly straight. We simply take our hands off the bars to check out this condition.

[ajpags]

Your SM is incompetent. In fact, a technical service bulletin does exist for this symptom. It recommends that you pack your drive shaft and ball bearings on the left.


Does anyone know where I can find all the TSBs for the 13?

[tccox]

I know its about BMWs but still a interesting take on the issue.

http://www.bmwrt.com/faq/pttr.htm

[sherob]

Does anyone know where I can find all the TSBs for the 13?

You can check via the HRCA website ;)

[STnAV8R]

With all the horrible, disgusting, unsolvable, life-threatening problems this poorly-engineered POS ST1300 has, I doubt if I'll ever get one. After all, this is obviously the worst bike Honda has put on the road in decades. I don't know why you guys don't all take every last one of them back to the dealers and just park them in front and do a sit-down hunger strike until you get your money back.

I know one thing, I'm hanging on to my ST1100 for a long time. Runs great, doesn't dive for the weeds, doesn't have any fancy electronics to get screwed up, doesn't get too hot on the crotch and legs, doesn't tick tick tick (ooops, that's the FJR isn't it), doesn't need premium gasoline, didn't have 27 recalls.

Heck, what a bunch of suckers you guys are to buy those crappy ST1300's. I'm sure glad I didn't waste my money on one of them. I hope all you guys going to WeSTOC on ST1300's don't just blow up halfway there. It's likely to happen to most all of you, you know. And the rest will undoubtedly fall apart on the way home. I mean, you don't have a chance, why risk even getting on one of those tomorrow.

I bet you must feel stupid for buying one, eh? Sure glad I didn't fall for that sales pitch and that pretty plastic shell.


(Note: for the humor-impaired, this was satire. Now, GO RIDE!)

I understand your point, and I'll certainly think hard next time I'm considering posting anything regarding a problem as some just can't seem to handle criticism of their bike and I will be flamed and ridiculed.

[vb03st]

But, what I really don't understand is under what circumstances do you want to ride with your hands off the bars?

It's not a matter of wanting to ride with no hands. My handlebars are constantly crooked because of the countersteering needed to compensate for the pulling. I'd say my left bar is about an inch futher from my body than my right when riding. Also, in the twisties, the bike turns in more easily to the right than to the left. It feels like it understeers to the left while it's fine to the right. The bike has the typical out of alignment feeling. We want our bikes to track straight for the same reasons that anyone cares about aligning their wheels and it has nothing to do with wanting to ride with no hands (usually :D ).

[STnAV8R]

Absolutely not trying to pick a fight here, I'd just like to understand why some of you feel the advice of "Don't ride with your hands off the bars" is unnacceptable.
(snip)
Those would be the areas I'd look at but I genuinely don't understand this desire to be out of control in the first place.

Regards,

Again, I don't have a "desire to be out of control ". I have a desire for the bike to be set up correctly so that it drives straight. Is that too much to ask of a brand new motorcycle? Would you accept that in a brand new car? Or would you take it in to have the alignment checked and adjusted?

Besides that it is annoying. While riding for long periods with both hands on the bars, I have to lean forward slightly and I get an ache in the neck area. It relieves it greatly if I can set the cruise and hold on with one hand for a while, allowing me to sit up straight in the saddle and also giving each hand a break. And yes, I only do this when on the freeway, not in traffic or other situations where it is obviously unsafe to do so. When I hold on with the left hand, I have to constantly push to counter steer against the natural right veering tendency, and that gets tiring quickly. While holding on with the right hand, I have to pull, but that is not quite as fatiguing. While holding on with both hands it is not so noticable as I'm leaning on the bars slightly.

If it turns out it's a design characteristic of the bike (engine torque, etc) and can't be fixed, then I'll live with it as it is not a major deal and I otherwise like the bike. But if it can be fixed by something as simple as aligning the front wheel correctly, then that would be great.

[tdeboeser]

I don't think you have a criticism about the ST, nor do I think others are flaming you. They just haven't experienced your bike. That said I would like to able to give your ST a ride, just so I could intelligently comment on your problem. I think others are giving you their experience.

My flaming, its toward vlad. Who says we as ST owners defend our bikes even tho there are serious problems with the ST. But what makes him a troll is that he says FJR owners, admit to their (few) problems and are nicer people, blah, blah, blah.


I believe Don-STOC237 post is, ah yes it is, sarcastic.

Tom de

[samal]

My bike is pulling to the right as well. I have my '04 for 3 weeks and 2000 miles already and last night installed new Z6 tires on it. The new tires did not solve it. The pull to the right is very slight and even with hands off the bars, I can control it with body position. I don't feel it whatsoever with even one hand on a bar.

[egar]

When I let off the gas on my Shadow (previous bike), I could coast with no hands for a long distance. I noticed very quickly that the ST is so jerky that you want to hang on at all times. It's just a totally different kind of bike. No big deal.

[Burger]

It's not a matter of wanting to ride with no hands. My handlebars are constantly crooked because of the countersteering needed to compensate for the pulling. I'd say my left bar is about an inch futher from my body than my right when riding. Also, in the twisties, the bike turns in more easily to the right than to the left. It feels like it understeers to the left while it's fine to the right. The bike has the typical out of alignment feeling. We want our bikes to track straight for the same reasons that anyone cares about aligning their wheels and it has nothing to do with wanting to ride with no hands (usually :D ).

OK, in which case, in your case, your bike is seriously out of alignment. For a 1 inch difference at the bar ends, that's got to, at a guess, equate to some 3 to 5 degrees. It could be out of alignment because of a number of reasons such as badly re-installed front or rear wheel. If you're able to check that then do, if not, I suggest you get it to a dealer as quickly as possible.

Regards,

[Burger]

It seems the answers so far to my question must fall into some very different categories and so it's not surprising that this thread has got a bit emotive at times... That can easily happen when people assume they're talking about the same thing but actually aren't :D

I perhaps misinterpetted the OP's comments as meaning they had a desire to ride with no hands... sorry STnAV8R. However, I think there are too many variables involved to expect your bike to ride dead straight at all times. Especially the ST with it's a steep fork rake, which is deliberately designed for quick steering. That's a deliberate design factor, not a fault, but what it means is that the steering will turn much quicker and much more easily than a bike with a shallow rake. If then something else is wrong with your bike this will show more easily because of this.

So, it seems to me there is a difference here and now it's threefold...

1. Those with ST's that ride dead straight or certainly within acceptable tolerances bearing in mind road, weather, loading, sitting etc.

2. Those who are perhaps struggling to understand the quick steering design having come from a bike with much slower steering and especially are not yet used to how other slight conditions will affect this.

3. Those with something very definitely wrong with their bike. These in my opinion are those that have stated they can actually feel the bike pulling even with one hand on the bars, or in the worst case (so far) vb03st with his stated twisted geometry.

I guess the point of this post is to try and pull the thread a little back on track and position it so that everyone recognises these different factors, all being discussed in the same thread. Hopefully that way, we can all work to find a solution for those with the faulty bikes.

Regards,

[EagleSix]

OK, serious question... I understand that you've fitted a cruise control and so don't need at all times to control the throttle. I also understand you US guys have miles and miles of straight roads. But, what I really don't understand is under what circumstances do you want to ride with your hands off the bars? It just doesn't make any sense to me that you want to be doing any speed at all on a motorcycle and not be in full control of it for when the unexpected or unanticipated happens. Pot hole you couldn't see because of shadows or something, deer running out from trees, bird flying across your path, diesel spill you hadn't spotted etc etc etc. There are loads of things that could happen and you'd be off before you could even think about trying to grab the bars.

Absolutely not trying to pick a fight here, I'd just like to understand why some of you feel the advice of "Don't ride with your hands off the bars" is unnacceptable.
Regards,

Hi Dave,

You asked a serious question, I will give you my serious answer. The best “complete control” of a 2 wheel vehicle starts with balance. From the moment it goes from more than a 2 point support (front tire and rear tire) as like 2 tires and side stand or center stand, or 2 tires and one or more feet……until it is returned to more than two points of support, it is all about balance. (I know you know all this and I’m not trying to lecture you about the dynamics of a motorcycle, it’s just a part of my answer).

The better a bike balances on it’s own, the better control the pilot will have during operation. The better control a pilot has the safer he/she will be during any given ride. The simplest balance test is how the bike will track on an smooth even surface without pilot input.

The simplest way to run a balance test is to find the smooth even surfaced road, hold a steady speed, point the bike straight down the road, and remove your hands from the grips for a short period of time. This is not a test of the bikes balance, but rather a test of the bike/rider combination, which is about as close as we can get without some rather fancy testing equipment.

During this test the pilot can determine how stable the bike feels and better learn it’s stability characteristics. All else being equal, if the bike swerves to one side or the other, the combination of bike and rider is out of balance. How far out depends on the amount of swerve and how quickly the swerve occurs. An out-of-balance condition can be caused by many factors and the pilot needs to figure this out. With an adverse effect from poor loading (payload of equipment or the position of the pilot) the out-of-balance can be explained and corrected. If the payload is equal, it could be the design of the bike, or some adverse setting, such as the front tire alignment (proper pinch bolt tightening).

My experience has been, all but one bike I have owned and/or operated, they all balanced with a straight line track, again with all else being equal. The swerve without input correction condition of my 05 ST13 was not in my opinion dangerous, but annoying, and if it is not a design flaw only experienced my a few, why should not the few seek a correction?

To me the balance of a bike goes far beyond it’s straight track characteristics. I’m more concerned and interested in how the bike handles while leaning, as during turns. Ideally any pilot input of the handlebars should be relatively equal right and left. (Yes there is a difference in right or left turns because of the gyro effect and P-factor, but if the bike is set-up properly this difference is insignificant to the pilot).

After I test the straight line tracking without pilot input, I proceed to lean testing. First from a straight line track by loading body weight on the pegs, both right and left, without pilot input (hands off the grips). At speeds higher than 15 MPH, properly balanced bikes don’t like to lean, they want to track straight. If the same amount of peg loading leans the bike easier left than right or vise-versa, it is an indication of an adverse balance condition, again with all else being equal. Getting equal body weight transfer on the pegs requires more than one test, plus the faster we go, the less the bike wants to lean so keeping an even speed during the test are required. There are a lot of variables, so I find myself doing these test many times, but an adverse condition usually shows up pretty quick.

The second part of the lean test is putting the bike into a turn using body weight transfer (hanging off the bike, loading the peg), with the required counter steering and feeling the pressure input difference required comparing right turns to left turns, and handlebar pressure required to recover from the lean.

The final lean balance test is putting the bike into a turn and releasing pilot input to the grips (similar to the straight line test). It’s not so important as to how the bike stabilizes while in a sweeper turn, as in, does it want to fall into more turn or resist the turn. The importance to me is, does it react about the same in a right turn as it does in the left turn. If our bike is setup properly the pilot should not have to use a great amount more grip pressure in a either right or left, as is required to the opposite turn (there are differences, but pretty much insignificant if properly balanced and all else is equal).

These are hands off test, for short periods of time, while the pilot stays in a riding position, which means the hands are off the grips by an inch or even less and the hands are hovering over the grips. I think your vision (as well as the dealer) is riders going down the road through traffic flinging both hands in the air with complete disregard for controlling their STeed. Just the opposite….the hands off test are to determine the characteristics of the bike and how best the pilot learns his mount for gaining better control.

Again, the better a combination of bike/rider balances without pilot input, the more, easier, better, greater control the pilot has while riding. These hands-off test are a simple method some pilots use to determine the balance of our bikes and any adverse characteristics it may have. The more a pilot knows about his bike, whether it is balanced or not, the safer, more in control that pilot will be. There you have it sir, my sincere answer. I hope you understand it better now.

.

[STnAV8R]

... nor do I think others are flaming you.

Tom de

Doesn't "you guys need to find something else to ***** about because this is without a doubt the stupidest thing I have ever heard of" qualify?

Geeeez, I don't get it. If you buy a new car and it pulls right, requiring you to crank in left wheel to go straight down the road, wouldn't you find that annoying and wouldn't you want it corrected? Does taking your hands off the wheel a few seconds to test it make you dangerous?

I regret the original post but at least I got one really good reply out of it, we'll take her into the dealer and give the alignment thing a try.

[Jefro]

"But, what I really don't understand is under what circumstances do you want to ride with your hands off the bars? "

Burger, Burger, Burger...

Back in the day (1973 I think) when Nevada didn't have posted speed limits, there was a long stretch of road just north of the nuclear weapons testing site that was as straight as an arrow for as far as the eye could see (assuming you could see out of both eyes in the blazing morning sun after watching Frank Sinatra in the showroom and rolling snake eyes with your last Hundred on the crap table closest to the floating three-masted ship in the lounge). The 8 hour ride from Vegas to Reno through Tonapah on a boring two-lane highway offered only sage-brush to look at. That, and the occasional mangy looking coyote. No gas stops, no billboards, no nothing. Only dirt and sky. And rabbits.
Lots of rabbits.
I'd wedge my pocket knife in-between the grip to steady the throttle (didn't have no stinkin cruise control on early American iron), and do some 85mph target practice. I always shoot better with two hands, and besides, six shots don't last long, and ya gotta reload. And that takes both hands, cause ya don't want to drop those long and heavy .357 rounds down into the drive chain. No sir.
Those little bunnies were kinda hard to see, and they blended in real good. so ya had to look close before ya sqeezed off a shot. And I only needed a little body-english to steer a northward heading. But ya didn't have to worry about looking at the road, cause it was still going straight for as far as the eye could see....

Jefro.

[STnAV8R]

Now you done it Jefro... turned it into another gun control thread.

Bob
NRA Lifer

[Burger]

Back in the day (1793 I think) when Nevada was still run by sheriff John (Get offa your horse) Wayne... blah de blah...

And I suppose you were riding side saddle and being chased by wild Comanche's :D

:a13:

[tdeboeser]

It seems you aren't alone. The following excerpt is from BMWSportTouring.com, taken from http://www.bmwrt.com/faq/pttr.htm. (http://www.bmwrt.com/faq/pttr.htm)
So how much is too much?
How fast does your ST go right?
Do you find you have to push on the right handle bar to the point its fatiguing?
Can you post a pic of you front axle, while its still on the bike?Also, I believe Paul was reacting to Vlad, not you.


Tom de
~~

Paul Glaves <pglaves@aol.com> is the technical editor of the BMW MOA�s monthly magazine BMW Owner�s News. Paul was kind enough to send me his take on the matter:

Another example of "they all do that, don't worry about it" is the tendency for some BMW motorcycles to wear the left side of their front tires more than the right sides of the tires, accompanied by a detectable tendency for the motorcycle to wander or pull to the right. I have fielded questions regarding this situation since the introduction of the K series motorcycles into the United States in 1985. The phenomena is not limited to the K series motorcycles. It is a common occurrence with the R1100 series as well, and questions about the R1100RT are particularly common.

These BMW models are certainly not the only models effected with the tendency to wander right and wear the left sides of their tires. One of the factors which contributes to this tendency applies to all motorcycles. In the United States, we ride on the right side of the road. Most roads are constructed with a "crown". That is, in straight sections, the road slopes from the center of the road to the edge. This slope is typically about 1/2 vertical inch per horizontal foot.

Attempting to ride straight down a crowned road with a perfectly balanced bike in zero wind conditions would still cause that motorcycle to tend to steer to the right, toward the downhill edge of the road. The rider corrects for this by holding slight uphill steering to the left. This causes the front tire to wear more, left of center. Interestingly, for many models of motorcycles this phenomenon is reversed in England, Japan, and other countries where motorists use the left side of the roadway. But many K series and R1100 BMW's exhibit the tendency to steer right and wear the left side of the tire even in countries where riding on the left side, not right side, of the roadway is normal. Why?

BMW introduced the Kompact Drive Unit on the K series motorcycles. If you look closely at the Kompact Drive Unit - engine, transmission, driveline, and final drive - it is clear that the weight is not centered left-right. The inline engine lying on its side has the crankshaft located right of the centerline of the chassis. The transmission is also weight biased to the right. And, obviously the bulk of the swingarm, the driveshaft, and the final drive or rear end unit are located right of the center line of the chassis.

If you were to attempt to balance a K bike on its tires on a perfectly flat surface in a zero wind enclosure, from an absolutely vertical position it would inevitably always fall over to the right. So, when riding the bike, more often than not the weight bias to the right will cause the motorcycle to want to lean to the right. This again makes it necessary to hold slight left steering pressure to go straight and added wear left-of-center on the front tire.

A similar rightward weight bias exists in the transmission, driveline, and final drive on the R1100 motorcycles. It is true to a lesser extent on the airheads too. For K bikes and R1100's the weight bias appears to be an even stronger factor that the road crown factor. In the United States and other countries where motorists drive/ride right of center the two factors are working together. In countries where riders ride left of center, the two factors work opposite to each other - and for some bikes the tire wear is on the right. But for K's and R1100's, most of the reports I am getting from overseas owners indicate that the weight bias overrides the road crown and there the tires often wear on the left side there too.

What is frustrating to owners about this situation is the question, "even if they all do it, how much is too much." And that is a question for which there is no simple answer. Fifteen years ago many K bike riders discovered that if they packed their saddlebags so that the heavy stuff was in the left saddlebag and light stuff was in the right saddlebag, it made a difference.

Some owners and dealers have found that omitting the flat, washer-like spacer from between the rear wheel and final drive output flange (where the wheel bolts on) lessens both pull to the right and left side front tire wear. This has the effect of moving the rear wheel a few millimeters to the right, more under the weight so to speak, which would lessen the effect. This is not a recommendation, and if you do it, be careful that you have maintained tire clearance from the swingarm.

Tire selection and tire pressures can also effect both handling and tire wear. Handling effects are hard to predict, but tire wear is less so. A sport touring tire with a soft tread compound will wear more quickly and the uneven wear will be more noticeable. Low tire pressures will permit more tread squirm and abnormal wear will occur faster.

And, of course, a mechanical defect, either from manufacturing, adjustment, or wear can exaggerate the problem. This is insidious because dealers often simply dismiss the complaints without a thorough check of the bike because "they all do it."

The best way to determine if one bike is abnormal is to comparison ride it with a like bike of the same model. Don't just do it on the way to a rally. Do it with both bikes unloaded so weight distribution of the load doesn't skew what you feel. Ride one bike then the other. If at the same place, at the same time, under controlled conditions you feel a significant difference in the pull to the right - then investigate further.

If not, well then, "they all do that, don't worry about it."

Good Wrenching

Paul Glaves

Tech Editor

BMW Owners News

[STnAV8R]

It seems you aren't alone. The following excerpt is from BMWSportTouring.com, taken from http://www.bmwrt.com/faq/pttr.htm. (http://www.bmwrt.com/faq/pttr.htm)
So how much is too much?
How fast does your ST go right?
Do you find you have to push on the right handle bar to the point its fatiguing?
Can you post a pic of you front axle, while its still on the bike?Also, I believe Paul was reacting to Vlad, not you.


Tom de
~~



Good stuff. Our V4 should have a fairly centered CG, but I have wondered about that rear end gear case hanging on the right side, and whether that could give the bike a right side weight bias. I even thought about how to check it... put my digital level vertically on the rear wheel to set it exactly vertical, then see if the bike wants to fall over to the right.

Answers to above...

That's subjective
At any speed (kidding). Let go and in probably 3-5 seconds you will be on the gravel shoulder
No. I push on the left bar. It is fatiguing after a few minutes of riding one handed due to the push needed. Not that it's a hard push, but your left arm is extended and holding a constant push. With both hands on it's not fatiguing as your weight is on the bars, you're not actually pushing with your arm
.

I didn't mention a name, but Vlad had not posted yet so it could not have been a reaction to him. Evidently Vlad has a past history here which I am ignorant about, but I didn't really take objection with anything he said in this thread.

[tdeboeser]

Answers to above...
That's subjective
At any speed (kidding). Let go and in probably 3-5 seconds you will be on the gravel shoulder
No. I push on the left bar. It is fatiguing after a few minutes of riding one handed due to the push needed. Not that it's a hard push, but your left arm is extended and holding a constant push. With both hands on it's not fatiguing as your weight is on the bars, you're not actually pushing with your arm.


(OPPS - I meant Left bar --- Counter steering!!:p:).

I don't get that kind of pull to the right. So I'll say yours is "too much". If you can get a pic of both sides of your front axle it might help. Medicine Bear had an issue (http://www.st-owners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8879&d=1144885877) - prob not the same, none the less pics can help. Possibly, getting two straight 2x4s to check front to rear alignment, or maybe drawing a straight line on the ground and parking the bike on it.
Also, when your bike is on the center stand, how does the front wheel spin? I'm not looking for which way the front falls... mine falls to the right, well it used to till I put stuff on the left bar :D.

Tom de

[Yogi]

5. 6' 180lb. Don't think size of the rider is a factor provided the weight is centered.

I was thinking if maybe a larger person might be extending beyond the wind protection provided by the fairing and windshield. then if sitting not dead center would create possible drag. I realize that was reaching but was the reason behind my question on size.

[Flymhi]

Well, I can say that I don't have the same issue on my 04' (thankfully) but I do agree that based on the responses, there is a legit issue here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STnAV8R
Thank you for your constructive comments.


If your 4 wheeled vehicle does not track straight wouldn't you get it fixed?

I must admit when my cage starts pulling to the left or right, I do take both hands of the wheel to verify. Does this make me a danger to myself or society??:rolleyes:

This guy must be doing the "tracking test"...?:D
http://www.stocrallies.com/westoc11/images/harrisonst.jpg


Seriously, STnAV8R has a valid issue...:cool:

[tdeboeser]

Just tested "no-hands" on mine, crowned road, uphill ~40 mph. No issues, she ran straight for about 10secs. I've only experianced "right hand pull" when under acceleration.

If you don't have time, maybe find a different dealer for a second opinon.


In some way I hope this helps,

Tom de

[tdeboeser]

Geez I don't know if anyone has asked, is there any obvious twist, bend, or other issue with the fork tubes?

Tom de

[EagleSix]

Geez I don't know if anyone has asked, is there any obvious twist, bend, or other issue with the fork tubes?

Tom de

Tom de,

In my case there was no obvious twist, bend, or other issue with the fork tubes.

.

[rob.uk]

Bearing in mind I'm in the UK, I just wanted to post an observation that on most roads here, my ST1300 drifts or "pulls" slightly to the left when I relax my grip.

When I hired a Harley for a touring break in Arizona, I noticed the opposite effect where with only light grip on the bars, the motorcycle drifted slightly to the right.

I'm pretty sure it's just a function of the road camber and tyre wear.

Over here we have a lot of roundabouts and I try mostly to go round them clockwise, hence the tyres here tend to wear faster on the right side than on the left. When you try to go in a straight line even on a level surface, with tyres worn unevenly in the UK, the bike still pulls slightly to the left.

Thankfully the "side steer" both in the UK (if my observations are generally true) and USA does take you away from oncoming traffic.

Any other observations from UK riders? Anyone riding an ST1300 in the UK that pulls to the right all the time?

Best regards,
Rob

[EagleSix]

Bearing in mind I'm in the UK, I just wanted to post an observation that on most roads here, my ST1300 drifts or "pulls" slightly to the left when I relax my grip.

When I hired a Harley for a touring break in Arizona, I noticed the opposite effect where with only light grip on the bars, the motorcycle drifted slightly to the right.

I'm pretty sure it's just a function of the road camber and tyre wear.

Best regards,
Rob

Hi Rob,

I agree, dependent on the amount of road camber and the side of the road driven on, a slight drift in the direction of the camber would be expected. The pull I expereinced with my 05, was not caused by road camber. I would describe tracking on a camber a "drift" and what I think most others are describing, as well as myself, is a "pull". As another member posted earlier, even riding down the left side of the road his bike pulled to the right, although not as much as it was against the road camber. Thanks for the input, always interesting to hear from the UK folks, it adds balance (no pun intended!).

.

[Jefro]

Hey Burger,
I got a t-shirt for you!
Jefro.

[Burger]

Hey Burger,
I got a t-shirt for you!
Jefro.

:crackup

OK, OK, I surrender :D I believe you.

Good luck shooting from the ST... at least with the quick steering you should be able to double back with some nifty knee control when the prey changes direction :D

Yeee haaaa.

[GregSTer]

Seriously? :eek:

So I take it they must design a pull to the left for UK models.
I wonder how they manage that......
The ST has no shaft torque reaction that I can detect. If it was torque causing it, the bike would pull the other way on the over-run, i.e. when the wheel/shaft is driving the engine such as when using engine braking to decelerate.

Scardy Cat –I say to you, yes, seriously. I challenge you to crack open a university level physics textbook and study about force, in particular study the forces associated with rotational mass. Then, when you understand this topic, please answer this question for me. How does the direction of the rotation of the wheels or the engine components change just by going from accelerating to decelerating? It doesn’t. Therefore the direction of the torque does not change either. The driveline effect you are alluding to is a different topic.

Further, I for one don’t think the pull to the right depends on the road cantor, nor on which side of the rode one drives on, nor on the load distribution of the bike. I’ve tested all that to my satisfaction and don’t see any change. If it was any of these things, then one could easily compensate for this pull by simply sitting a little to the left, which does not work. Only a light push on the left bar or a pull on the right bar (even the simple weight of your hand on the throttle) balances it out.

Things I would not rule out: tires, wheel mounting, fork alighnment. I am looking to hear the results form those who try the wheel mounting procedure mentioned in this thread.

[naturally wired]

How about a question for you guys?....do you all have the rear preload cranked up or not????...

[v65saber]

i normally don't get into these discussions but......

the first thing i noticed really different from the old very old (85) saber was that with no hands on or just finger tips on the bars that the st did not track straight... same roads conditions. i thought it was just me... i guess not... bike should go straight without my help

biff

vero,fl

[hojo in sc]

Tom de: From the looks of your photo, I would say that you have a serious issue with the bike pulling to the right, looks like your hanging on for the ride :D

[EagleSix]

How about a question for you guys?....do you all have the rear preload cranked up or not????...

Suspension adjustment, in my case, had little effect...

.

[naturally wired]

Suspension adjustment, in my case, had little effect...

.

The two big improvements for me was cranking the rear and Pilot Roads at 42 lbs front and rear!.......I have no top box, but I can do the no hands test down to around 10 mph coming down from 60mph on a crowned road :shock:


When the bike had its stockers on and the rear in the factory setting it was very unnerving to ride some times!

[Scaredy Cat]

Scardy Cat –I say to you, yes, seriously. I challenge you to crack open a university level physics textbook and study about force, in particular study the forces associated with rotational mass. Then, when you understand this topic, please answer this question for me. How does the direction of the rotation of the wheels or the engine components change just by going from accelerating to decelerating? It doesn’t. Therefore the direction of the torque does not change either. The driveline effect you are alluding to is a different topic.

Further, I for one don’t think the pull to the right depends on the road cantor, nor on which side of the rode one drives on, nor on the load distribution of the bike. I’ve tested all that to my satisfaction and don’t see any change. If it was any of these things, then one could easily compensate for this pull by simply sitting a little to the left, which does not work. Only a light push on the left bar or a pull on the right bar (even the simple weight of your hand on the throttle) balances it out.

Things I would not rule out: tires, wheel mounting, fork alighnment. I am looking to hear the results form those who try the wheel mounting procedure mentioned in this thread.

Well, without consulting a textbook.....
When you are on the power, torque is being transmitted from the engine to the back wheel. On the overrun torque is being transmitted in the opposite direction, from the backwheel to the engine. Therefore if it was an engine/shaft torque reaction, it would reverse when the torque reverses.
Slipper clutches limit this reverse torque to avoid wheel lock-up under high rpm downshifts.
Think of a chain and sprocket. When accelerating, the top of the chain is in tension, creating a clockwise torque on the sprocket. When decelerating, the bottom run of the chain is in tension, creating a counter clockwise torque on the sprocket. So the torque reverses, even though the direction of rotation doesn't.

[STnAV8R]

i normally don't get into these discussions but......

the first thing i noticed really different from the old very old (85) saber was that with no hands on or just finger tips on the bars that the st did not track straight... same roads conditions. i thought it was just me... i guess not... bike should go straight without my help

biff

vero,fl

I also have an 85 Sabre 1100, and it goes straight hands off.

[Burger]

One comment that I've already made in this thread but I really do feel should be taken into account is about the steep rake or angle of the front forks. Honda designed the ST deliberately with a steep rake to give it quick and light steering. This doesn't mean that it shouldn't ride straight, so don't read the comment as that, but what it does mean is that balance is critical and you shouldn't be too quick to compare it to other bikes. A bike with a shallow rake will be much easier to keep in a straight line whereas the ST is susceptible to the smallest of movements that wouldn't take another bike off line. This also means that anything that can affect the balance will be much more noticeable on an ST such as any torque reactions, if there are any, from the engine and drive train etc.

I think this is an important factor when considering the hands off straight line stability of the ST.

However, as I've also already said, if you can feel the bars physically trying to turn then there is definitely something wrong.

Regards,

[EagleSix]

Hi Dave,

ZX-14 rake 23.0*
VTR1000 rake 24.9*
FZR600 rake 25.0*

ST1300 rake 26.0*

This is just a short list of the current bikes I have as comparison to the ST. The ZX-14 tracks straight, the SuperHawk VTR1000 tracked straight, and the Yamaha FZR600 tracks straight. All these bikes are closer to the sportbike class with less rake angle than the ST1300.

.

[UNTMatt]

1) There are much safer, much more accurate ways to tell if a bike is aligned properly than taking your hands off the bars.

2) You can just rest your hands lightly on the bars and just 'feel' the bike's tracking w/o fully removing your hands.

3) My issue with the whole 'hands off the bars' check, is there are too many variables to pinpoint a single issue. Crowns on roads, for example.

4) Check your alignment (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/string_align_motorcycle_wheels/) and geometry setup (I'd recommend professional assistance on this one unless you're experenced in geometry setup's) on your bike. Check brakes, check your front end. Maybe something's not installed properly or torqed down.

I don't seem to have this issue w/my ST so I am having to just throw out suggestions.

[STOnkin'aussie]

so for us newbies - can anyone direct me to the thread dealing with the fix for this problem? (sorry in advance Paul) but I do like to occasionally do up a zip or button which is impossibe on this bike due to this annoying trait. Not a ***** in my books - each to there own and all that but i am really glad someone brought it up.

[tccox]

Hi Dave,

ZX-14 rake 23.0*
VTR1000 rake 24.9*
FZR600 rake 25.0*

ST1300 rake 26.0*

This is just a short list of the current bikes I have as comparison to the ST. The ZX-14 tracks straight, the SuperHawk VTR1000 tracked straight, and the Yamaha FZR600 tracks straight. All these bikes are closer to the sportbike class with less rake angle than the ST1300.

.

ZX-14 Chain Drive Transverse Mounted Engine
VTR1000 Chain Drive Transverse Mounted Engine
FZR600 Chain Drive Transverse Mounted Engine

ST1300 Shaft Drive Engine longitudinally mounted (Rider Complaints of Pull To Right)
BMW Boxers Shaft Drive Engine longitudinally mounted (Rider Complaints of pull to right)


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Course I cant say if mine pulls to right or not. At least its not noticeable with hands on bars and these ol bones are too old to try riding hands off. No way I'd try it on a public road.

[UNTMatt]

ZX-14 Chain Drive Transverse Mounted Engine
VTR1000 Chain Drive Transverse Mounted Engine
FZR600 Chain Drive Transverse Mounted Engine

ST1300 Shaft Drive Engine longitudinally mounted (Rider Complaints of Pull To Right)
BMW Boxers Shaft Drive Engine longitudinally mounted (Rider Complaints of pull to right)


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Course I cant say if mine pulls to right or not. At least its not noticeable with hands on bars and these ol bones are too old to try riding hands off. No way I'd try it on a public road.

I've heard of slight pulling to one side on shaft driven bikes. Haven't really noticed it on my bike and, frankly, keep forgetting to check (not really concerned with it, either).

[EagleSix]

ZX-14 Chain Drive Transverse Mounted Engine
VTR1000 Chain Drive Transverse Mounted Engine
FZR600 Chain Drive Transverse Mounted Engine

ST1300 Shaft Drive Engine longitudinally mounted (Rider Complaints of Pull To Right)
BMW Boxers Shaft Drive Engine longitudinally mounted (Rider Complaints of pull to right)


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Course I cant say if mine pulls to right or not. At least its not noticeable with hands on bars and these ol bones are too old to try riding hands off. No way I'd try it on a public road.

TC, your mixing apples and oranges, but that is OK and I would follow your logic if every ST1300 pulled right. From the post received that does not seem to be the case. I think every ST1300 has the drive shaft on the same side, with the same engine, mounted in the same place. Seems maybe this isn't the reason for the issue we speak of, although I certainly have heard the SHAFT theory before. Thank You.

.

[EagleSix]

1) There are much safer, much more accurate ways to tell if a bike is aligned properly than taking your hands off the bars.

2) You can just rest your hands lightly on the bars and just 'feel' the bike's tracking w/o fully removing your hands.

3) My issue with the whole 'hands off the bars' check, is there are too many variables to pinpoint a single issue. Crowns on roads, for example.

4) Check your alignment (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/string_align_motorcycle_wheels/) and geometry setup (I'd recommend professional assistance on this one unless you're experenced in geometry setup's) on your bike. Check brakes, check your front end. Maybe something's not installed properly or torqed down.

I don't seem to have this issue w/my ST so I am having to just throw out suggestions.

Art,

1) I understand your concern about the safety issue and sure don't want to encourage anyone to do anything they feel unsafe. From your statement I would think the last thing you should do is take your hands off the grips. I wouldn't suggestion to tell you how to pilot your bike and offer 100% support for you in your opinion.

For others who feel taking their hands off the grips for a short period of time under certain condition, does not pose a safe risk, I think the idea is fine for them. I would not suggets they not do it, anymore than I suggest you to do it. What I state is what I do, what I think, not what others should do or not do, how others should think, feel, reply or live.

I do have a another thought about the hands off safety risk, and this is not directed at you....for those who feel taking both hands off the grips will result in loosing total control of the bike....how much of a safety risk is having one hand off the grips? I think there were a few stating you need both hands on the grips for total control. I would think if two hands off the grips risk control, one hand off would have to at least reduce control. Is one hand off an acceptable safety risk? Would not this be subjective to the mind of the rider dependent on the conditions? Just a thought....is there anyone posting here who has never riden for at least a few seconds with one hand off the grip?

2) Back on subject; I agree, for some riders this will suffice and if that methods is satisfactory to the rider, bingo solution without them thinking they breached a safety net.

3) There may be many issues, but crown of the road is not one of them. To many post here, where the riders has found a place to test on flat surfaces, including myself.

4) Good suggestions, but it's not like some of us have not done most of these items and between all of us, all have been covered. Nevertheless, your suggestions are well taken, except maybe the one about "professional assistance", which I would then ask....where do I find professional assistance in the Phoenix Metro area? I'm betting there is a professional in my area who could solve this matter, the problem however is finding that person. I'm pretty sure they are not at a dealer who thinks so lightly of my issue he makes a statement like "don't take your hands off the grips!". I understand the suggestion made by the service manager, however the statement is a copout, in my opinion, because they want to avoid the solution for whatever reason. I think the real professionals concerning this issue are here on this board who suggest and post details on the best way to mount the front wheel for proper alignment and sequence of tightening the pinch bolts. My hat is off to them.

Thanks Again TC for your suggestions....I guess I'm really glad my ST1300 only pulled a bit to the right and didn't constantly pull up!!! Oh wait, it did a couple times (ahhh, that would be a wheelie....now there is a real safety risk subject/debate! and that is a pilot enduced issue, not a bike issue).

.

[UNTMatt]

I posted what I did as a shot in the dark suggestion as I do not have this issue with the 06 ST sitting in my garage.

If you think I was being un-helpful, I apologize as that was not my intention.

I will suggest that if you have an issue with your bike pulling to one side, get it serviced. Before taking on any service tasks on your bike, purchase the service manual for it and the proper tools to get the job done. If you have any questions, locate someone with experence that can help you. Otherwise, take it to a competent shop and have it repaired.

It is my opinion that a slight pulling to one side seems to follow the shaft drive mechanism.

[EagleSix]

I posted what I did as a shot in the dark suggestion as I do not have this issue with the 06 ST sitting in my garage.

If you think I was being un-helpful, I apologize as that was not my intention.

I will suggest that if you have an issue with your bike pulling to one side, get it serviced. Before taking on any service tasks on your bike, purchase the service manual for it and the proper tools to get the job done. If you have any questions, locate someone with experence that can help you. Otherwise, take it to a competent shop and have it repaired.

It is my opinion that a slight pulling to one side seems to follow the shaft drive mechanism.

Hi Art,

No apology required, although I appreciate the offer. I was simply making a reply to your suggestions for others monitoring this thread who are having the same pull-right issue, so they could read what my experience has been. It's not a case if your suggestions were un-helpful, just a reply to clarify.

The original post was made my an ST owner who ran into the same treatment as I did attempting to get professional and competent service. Although I think it is getting better in my area, we do not have an abundance of shops qualified (in my opinion) to service other than common items, such as changing oil and filter, etc. on the ST1300.

In my humble opinion, the ST1300A is one of the best bikes Honda offers. Not taking anything away from other models, I just think it's a great bike. My expereince with the pull-right issue will not prevent me from considering another ST in the future. I will be more critical selecting a dealer for service in the future (which I should have with the 05), but I do not think the issue is with the design, but with the specific setup of my particular bike.

And, although I would prefer not to buy tools, manuals and education to do some of these type of service jobs, like you point out.....if there is a lack of competent service shops and I want the job done right, just might have to invest in doing it myself. Thanks again....

.

[vb03st]

1) There are much safer, much more accurate ways to tell if a bike is aligned properly than taking your hands off the bars.

My new observations: (With hands ON the bars for safety reasons) During wheelie, bike tracks straight. During stoppie, bike pulls right severely. Yep, definately something with the front wheel.:nuts1:

Seriously, I haven't been able to test the proper wheel removal/replacement yet since I picked up the wrong size allen wrench for the axle the other day (got a 17mm and should've got a 16mm). I'll report my findings as soon as I can.

[STnAV8R]

Hi Dave,

ZX-14 rake 23.0*
VTR1000 rake 24.9*
FZR600 rake 25.0*

ST1300 rake 26.0*

This is just a short list of the current bikes I have as comparison to the ST. The ZX-14 tracks straight, the SuperHawk VTR1000 tracked straight, and the Yamaha FZR600 tracks straight. All these bikes are closer to the sportbike class with less rake angle than the ST1300.

.

I don't know the Sabre's rake angle, can't find it in the owners manual, but it is closer to a cruiser than to a sport bike. It definitely does not like turning as much as the ST does.

[tdeboeser]

Ok, We've had a coupla "no hands" tests on crowned roads with no pulling to the right.
Also, I believe STnAV8R's ST pulls too much to the right, I could see after 10 sec on a crowned road the ST moving to the right, but not after 3-5secs. He also has to keep his ST straight.

STnAV8R, If everything else is ok ( air pressure, suspension, forks, handle bar weight, axle, etc, etc.) Then possibly your tires are the issue, but i doubt it. Also removing and installing the isn't not difficult at all, but its possible the dealer set your bike up wrong. Hows your wheel spin on the center stand?

As others are arguing about, the ST's gyroscopes should keep you straight. Something aint right. I'm still thinking the front wheel aint on right.


Tom de

[Fore Stroke]

er......could these be ST's from that special 'Rush Limbaugh' batch that Honda made?.....

(I KNOW this may be a serious problem but I just couldn't resist!)

:D

[dduelin]

Mine used to have a slight amount of pull to the right but nothing I could not and didn't get used to. It wouldn't swerve right but it would eventually drift to the right if the bike was left to it's own. If I had my hands off the bars it I could make it go straight by leaning too the left so my head was 3-4 inches off center line. Not that I did this often but I did try it now and then.

It was like that with the OEM 'Stone tires and the Pilot Roads that replaced them. When I got Metzeler Z6's 3,000 miles ago the pull was worse.

I loosened and retorqued the axle pinch bolts in the proper sequence last week and the slight pull is back to the way it used to be. I think the small amount is within tolerance ( I know it's within my tolerance ) and due to the weight of the shaft and related mechanism and/or the crown of the roadway.

[EagleSix]

Mine used to have a slight amount of pull to the right but nothing I could not and didn't get used to. It wouldn't swerve right but it would eventually drift to the right if the bike was left to it's own. If I had my hands off the bars it I could make it go straight by leaning too the left so my head was 3-4 inches off center line. Not that I did this often but I did try it now and then.

It was like that with the OEM 'Stone tires and the Pilot Roads that replaced them. When I got Metzeler Z6's 3,000 miles ago the pull was worse.

I loosened and retorqued the axle pinch bolts in the proper sequence last week and the slight pull is back to the way it used to be. I think the small amount is within tolerance ( I know it's within my tolerance ) and due to the weight of the shaft and related mechanism and/or the crown of the roadway.

Hi Dave,

Thank You for the information. Your experience would confirm that the proper mounting of the front tire/wheel using the prescribed pinch bolt torque sequence, like others have posted, has a lot to do with it.

I agree and would accept a slight drift right/left due the various influences the load of the bike including pilot can have, as well as the speed of the test.

A question sir….did you mount your current Metzeler tires? If not, do you think perhaps the person that did might not have followed the pinch bolt torque sequence? And, if so, when you did the torque sequence properly, do you attribute the return to normal (slight drifting) to this procedure?

.

[STony G]

I understand your point, and I'll certainly think hard next time I'm considering posting anything regarding a problem as some just can't seem to handle criticism of their bike and I will be flamed and ridiculed.

Well, yea, but, we'll do it with respect :lol: .

[dduelin]

Hi Dave,

Thank You for the information. Your experience would confirm that the proper mounting of the front tire/wheel using the prescribed pinch bolt torque sequence, like others have posted, has a lot to do with it.

I agree and would accept a slight drift right/left due the various influences the load of the bike including pilot can have, as well as the speed of the test.

A question sir….did you mount your current Metzeler tires? If not, do you think perhaps the person that did might not have followed the pinch bolt torque sequence? And, if so, when you did the torque sequence properly, do you attribute the return to normal (slight drifting) to this procedure?

.

The same dealer mounted the Michelins and the Metzelers. I was waiting for the bike both times and I did not see the tech depress or bounce the forks before torquing the pinch bolts. It would have been difficult with the bike up on the lift anyway.

I believe it got rid of the pull on my bike as it returned to "normal" after I did it.