Was--Lusting after the New Gen Bimmer K12GT

[pmorritt]

My St is only 1 1/2yrs old, but when the new gen K12GT came out, I started drooling. BMW heritage, great colors,152hp, blaaa, blaaa,blaaa. I’ve been lurking on one of Their sites these past few months. Oh, My gaud---23 grand and complaints up the ying-yang. Software upgrades that don't upgrade, uncomfortable seats-reg and low (sound familiar?), backfiring, clunky gearbox--on and on and on. Some of those folks are hoping that upgrade 8.0 will help--but it's not off the drawing board yet! Oh, and the whole electrical system is monitored by something called--CanBus (no, not cannabis). Apparently, this electrical watchdog will detect any spike or reduction of volts, amps and decide that a bulb is out, something is malfunctioning, and decide to shut down one or more systems until the dealer can hook it up to the $$$$$$$$$computer to say how much you will have to pay for the privilege of owning a Bimmer. Want to farkle???Good luck--Oh, Sir the warantee is void--not BMW approved! Perhaps, the 2008/9 St will have just a few minor improvements. But, for now--RIDE RED Baby!!!!!!!:biker: :biker: :biker: :biker: :) :) :)

[Spencer]

Articles from all over the world on the GT

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/clasqm/bmw.html

It's a shame, has the potential to be a great bike but control system problem after problem.
Then there is the ABS "glitch" that they don't like to talk about.
One mags tester found out first hand when the ABS sensed a slight slide as he entered a turn too hot and had to break. The system cut the breaks completely and that fancy front end twisted up when he hit the curb.
Mant testers think the bike was put into production a little early without enough bug testing.
Probably the first Beemer I took a serious look at.

Spencer

[DeSTy]

CANbus is a system used in just about every european car manufactured these days. It is the system that interlinks the Engine ECU, body control computer, security system, etc.

Canbus is a name for a standard, not a 'thing', so pointing blame at CANbus instead of the faulty components attached to it, is a bit counter-productive.

Check here (http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_CAN.html) for more info.

[pmorritt]

CANbus is a system used in just about every european car manufactured these days. It is the system that interlinks the Engine ECU, body control computer, security system, etc.

Canbus is a name for a standard, not a 'thing', so pointing blame at CANbus instead of the faulty components attached to it, is a bit counter-productive.

Check here (http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_CAN.html) for more info.
That was not my point. The problem, is that this "thing" makes a bike so complicated that adding farkles that are not installed by the dealer and approved by BMW is all but eliminated. Case in point- local guy added a communications systen to his k12gt. He used the fwd BMW accessory socket (there are 2) that is on the bike as delivered. The connector is a BMW item--he couldn't find the mate. So he just tapped into the power behind the connector--all was well. Went in for 600mile service and the service mgr said that they had an error code. Well, it was under wanantee and they serviced the ecu-reset the code-and everything was good to go. Then the service mgr handed the guy a bill for $500. ***. BMW said that since he didn't use the "BMW" connector to power the accessory the reset was not covered. But-it's an accessory socket! Sorry--$500. That's my point! How much fun would the ST be if we couldn't fiddle with it. Has nothing to faulty components or being counter productive.:flame

[DeSTy]

That was not my point. The problem, is that this "thing" makes a bike so complicated that adding farkles that are not installed by the dealer and approved by BMW is all but eliminated. Case in point- local guy added a communications systen to his k12gt. He used the fwd BMW accessory socket (there are 2) that is on the bike as delivered. The connector is a BMW item--he couldn't find the mate. So he just tapped into the power behind the connector--all was well. Went in for 600mile service and the service mgr said that they had an error code. Well, it was under wanantee and they serviced the ecu-reset the code-and everything was good to go. Then the service mgr handed the guy a bill for $500. ***. BMW said that since he didn't use the "BMW" connector to power the accessory the reset was not covered. But-it's an accessory socket! Sorry--$500. That's my point! How much fun would the ST be if we couldn't fiddle with it. Has nothing to faulty components or being counter productive.:flame

Crikey, that's a bit rich... Then again, STealers will attempt to get away with anything they think they can. :mad:

[wjbertrand]

CANbus is a system used in just about every european car manufactured these days. It is the system that interlinks the Engine ECU, body control computer, security system, etc.

Canbus is a name for a standard, not a 'thing', so pointing blame at CANbus instead of the faulty components attached to it, is a bit counter-productive.

Check here (http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_CAN.html) for more info.

Electrical problems are in large part responsible for the German car industry's fall in quality and reliability ratings, in both JD Power and Consumer Reports surveys, to the point where, as a group, they are less reliable than domestic cars.

With respect to the "Heritage", I personally could give two flips, I will pay only for the product, not mystique, heritage, prestige, snob appeal or any other intangible "benefit". None of that stuff makes the bike a more functional bike. But that's just me. As far as I'm concerned companies that market their stuff this way are mostly doing so because the product itself fails to measure up in a purely objective manner on its own merits.

Obviously (Harley being the prime case in point, with respect to motorcycles) emotional based marketing like this is effective with a large group of consumers however. To me it's just all fluff and I'm not falling or paying for it!

[pmorritt]

Electrical problems are in large part responsible for the German car industry's fall in quality and reliability ratings, in both JD Power and Consumer Reports surveys, to the point where, as a group, they are less reliable than domestic cars.

With respect to the "Heritage", I personally could give two flips, I will pay only for the product, not mystique, heritage, prestige, snob appeal or any other intangible "benefit". None of that stuff makes the bike a more functional bike. But that's just me. As far as I'm concerned companies that market their stuff this way are mostly doing so because the product itself fails to measure up in a purely objective manner on its own merits.

Obviously (Harley being the prime case in point, with respect to motorcycles) emotional based marketing like this is effective with a large group of consumers however. To me it's just all fluff and I'm not falling or paying for it!

Totally agree. Ever had a chance to use (or scream) at BMW's I-Drive. Don't get me wrong-had 4 Bimmers in the last 10yrs--but no to I-Drive. Switched to Audi as it's controls were more intuitive. There's a military term that comes to mind "KISS". CANbus--KMA.

[tdeboeser]

I LOVE KISS. And I Like beemers, but...



I will NEVER own one. More than the info above the last few IBR DNF's are more than troublesome.

I would like the Job's Beemer owners seem to have, $18-$23k+, ++ service, + Beemer gear. I think you really analyze the $$ you'd be better off getting a 3 series cage, esp. since the car division is offering free 4 year serivce ( down the oil changes ).

way too much $$$ for all the troubles, recalls, and after miles quality...


too bad, they really do look like good bikes


Tom de

[maldos]

I also had 2 BMWs (one an M3) and had nothing but headaches with their electrics. I willl NEVER own another BMW , but I do like looking.

[STill Fiddlin]

Too pricey for me.

I had an R75/5 back when. I remember that after I broke up the Windjammer doing something stupid I had to buy a chrome trim ring for the headlight and turn signal stalk. This was 1977 or so, and all I remember is I about choked when they told me the prices, which I don't remember, because I had to pay it - must be a blocked memory. Same thing happened when I needed a turn signal relay for my BMW 2002 (car) - something insane like $50, and later a rear end ($$$$). At least those I could find in a boneyard, but it was still enough to cure me.

I like to look at them, but can't handle the cost of ownership.

[Bones]

BMW's car design direction is awful in my opinion, the interior controls ("I-Confused") are baffling. The reliability issues keep me away. Too bad because they drive great. The new GT is among the few Beemers ever that I'd call a looker, but the many gremlins keep me away. Then there's that Economics 101 idea of diminishing marginal utility...what do you get for all that extra dough?

When I test rode an RT1150, I walked away (checkbook unopened) quite underwhelmed. It was a very different -- and far superior -- experience for me after my first ride on an ST.

When I was young and broke, I wanted a BMW car and a BMW motorcycle. Now that I'm not so young and can afford one of each, I wouldn't buy either one.

My friends with BMW cars and motorcycles have different views.

[J Paul]

Canbus is what in America is known as the SAE J1939 communication protocal. All it does is is give the requirements for the backbone(com wiring) for all the unit computers. One thing I have found working on transit busses is problems can be extremly difficult to find. I have checked out units with a complaint of intermittent check engine or trans lites to find nothing wrong and the next day the unit is back in the dead line for the same problem. For the BMW dealer to charge money because they connected behind the stock connector,but was still the same accy circuit with fusing is an extreme case of not built that way and now nothing electrical is warrantable. I have seen this from German manufactorers become more prevalent in the past 10 years. Jeff

[dduelin]

I get my German bike fix from my 25 year old airhead. The old bikes were much simpler and that applies to Asian bikes as well as European. The few parts I have bought for my BMW R100 like decals and oil seals were cheap and amazingly in stock at the dealer. I can't get a thing for my ST at the dealer. Everything except for oil filters or maybe plugs are 3-5 days away. I love to ride the old Beemer. Although it is naked it is nearly as easy to ride it on a 400 mile daytrip as the ST. It is everything my ST isn't - is that sufficiently vague?

I too was goo-goo at the K1200GT in the dealer's showroom and the first review I read of the bike (Rider magazine??) was glowing. On the other hand, I read all the press and reviews of the K bike models as well as the R bikes that use the Housack-style Telelever front end and they almost all pan it or describe it as numb and lacking feedback. Coupled with the long 62+ inch wheelbase I can't imagine the K1200GT being as nimble as our much heavier ST's in the type of riding I like to do despite being much lighter. BMW has stuck with the telelever for a long time though.

[pretbek]

I see that many are finally discovering that BMW stands for Break My Wallet.

Agreed, both the bikes and the cars ride and drive mighty fine, just as long as you don't have to cough up for maintenance or repairs. The ideal lease vehicle...

[sherob]

My neighbor has a 6 series... nice looking car, loaded. About once a month she has a Nissan/Toyota sitting in her driveway because her Beemer is in the shop for something :rolleyes: She was trying to talk my wife into getting one... "BMW... LOL!!! Don't think so... Lexus or Acura, but no BMW will sit in front of our house!" Asked my wife to notice how often she had a loaner/rental car due to hers being worked on... the work may be free, but if you can't drive it what fun is it :rolleyes:

[STArnie13]

I don't intend to buy a GT, but I have seen that the GT is supposed to be BMW's biggest seller at the moment. I have already seen a few on the road so somebody thinks they are worth the price.:03biker:

[dduelin]

I see that many are finally discovering that BMW stands for Break My Wallet.

Agreed, both the bikes and the cars ride and drive mighty fine, just as long as you don't have to cough up for maintenance or repairs. The ideal lease vehicle...

Or Bring More Wampum.

Or Best Motorcycle in the World.

All depends on the situation or person I guess.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/100_3815.jpg

[sroddy7855]

Hate to disappoint you guys wanting a k1200gt go to bmw web site "this bike is not available to the public" that's something they've put on there in the last couple of weeks.Don't know why. As far as the extra cost a dealer told me it was because of the "german enginering". I've been working on "german engineered " stuff for the past 10 years or so and IMHO it's highly overated, especially electrical and electronics. I think what the germans are good at engineering is marketing strategy, supply of product and parts and controlling the price of their products .

[tccox]

BMW Dealer in Greensboro has a K1200GT in stock , avaliable now for $20,385 plus tax and so forth.

But that is a strange remark on the BMW site. Apparently thsy've been taken off the market ????????

[UNTMatt]

BMW Dealer in Greensboro has a K1200GT in stock , avaliable now for $20,385 plus tax and so forth.

But that is a strange remark on the BMW site. Apparently they've been taken off the market ????????

It also states, 'Available: April 2006'

Could it just be that their web master is a little behind?

[sroddy7855]

I don't know why it's on their website but it has been put on there in the last couple of weeks, long after the info on the k12gt was posted. I thought maybe they were holding back until the bike developed more "personality"(a sells pitch I got at a dealer last week, I was told my jap bike didn't have any). I was seriously looking at the K series R's have no appeal to me, but then again neither does any 2 cyl. engine.

[JReviere]

Someone asked: "How much fun would the ST be if we couldn't fiddle with it?"

The obvious answer is: TONS OF FUN and MILES OF SMILES.

Personally, the less I have to work on the machine, the more nearly perfectly it suits me RIGHT OUF OF THE SHIPPING CRATE, the better I like it.

I don't ride a lot any more, but I long ago lost interest in wrenching on machines. I buy a bike to RIDE, not polish and modify.

But then, I'm somewhat of a CURMUDGEON. I know, I'm different. I don't fit anyone's mold. I like it that way.

JR
394
03ST1300A
Lake Livingston, TX

[ST/SV]

Dave (dduelin) that sure is a pretty beemer. Brings back memories of my old '74 900/6. I rode it to Colorado and back in '76, 3400 mile round trip, my longest trip to date. I'd give anything to have her back.

[ChucksKLRST]

I had a 1994 R100GSPD BMW airhead. For the first 40000 miles it was a great bike. I rode it up the Dempster Highway to Inuvike Northwest Territories from Denver:) . Also did the BIG DOG RIDE:) . Took it to Copper Canyon, Mexico,:) and all over the back country of Colorado. :D After 40k miles and eight years, a new drive shaft,:confused: a rebuild rear end,:o: a new diode board,:confused: rebuilt carbs (that I could never keep synched):eek: , a new blinker module,;) and a tranny bearing that was starting to howl,:( I decided that I had enough personality. It became a love hate relationship and it was time to go. I replaced it with a KLR 650 :) and haven't looked back sense. The one redeeming character was that is was easy to work on.:D
Good Luck with B M W (Bring Money With)
By the way my ST has 41000 miles in three and a half years and nery a problem. HONDA (GO RIDE);)

[CarSalesman]

I read all this discussion about BMW having problems, but I gotta tell you, my 2004 K1200LT which I purchased almost 3 years ago, has not yet been back to the dealership for anything. Well, actually, the plastic knob that adjusts the rear shock absorber, broke off when I over-tightened it, so the dealer mailed me a knob. My fault.

My 2002 ST1100 also has never seen the dealership yet, so I can't tell you which one is more reliable.