Coolant leak and the dealer experience

[BillA]

Most of us have read about the coolant leaks which randomly happen on some of the ST1300s. My bike(04) had a smell of burned coolant for quite some time, but the reservoir was always full and I never had an overheating problem. A couple of weeks ago it (the leak) showed it’s ugly head and let loose a ¼ cup after a 2-3 minute warm up. I shut her down and called the dealer. I get the bike in the following weekend and get a call on Tue. to come pick it up. After getting a friend lined up to help retrieve my car I get to the dealer, am told I owe nothing (sure as heck better not). I go out to pick up the bike. A service rep starts her up to maneuver it from among all the other bikes. He lets the bike warm up for 3-4 minutes and…yep, the bike starts leaking bright green coolant worse than when I brought it in or at least the same. I had two choices in my mind, to freaking explode or to just grin and laugh. I decided to laugh, though I did ask if they had the common sense to check for leaks with the plastic still off after running the bike up to operating temps. No laugh from them or me. They have one more chance to get it right and if not…well I’ll do what I can and the owner, the regional service rep and the company will get an ear full. And yeah, I have a service manual and am fairly handy with tools. I just wanted to test the dealer and see if I could trust bringing the bike in for any serious work. Go figure.

[Bob Hughes]

My first Valkyrie leaked a puddle of coolant by the kickstand when the overflow bottle nipple broke off. My dog Max was just a puppy and had doggy doors into the garage and then out to the yard. So when I first saw the little green puddle at the kickstand I thought "What the heck is wrong with the dog" and gave him a little speach about peeing on the kickstand.

Anyway my 97 Magna, 99 Valkyrie and 2001 wing all leaked coolant through the hose clamps eventually. The clamps were not tight at all. We ride into the boonies and there is no way that I am going dry on the road because of a loose hose clamp so I do them all myself when I pull off the covers and check the nuts and bolts now. If you want it done right...

[nm6r]

...I have a service manual and am fairly handy with tools. I just wanted to test the dealer and see if I could trust bringing the bike in for any serious work. Go figure.

Bill, we could have saved you a trip (or two or three) to the dealer. :rolleyes:

I suppose they confirmed your suspicion?

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[MikeP1300]

I don't understand how honda can build such a reliable bunch of machines and have some of the most incompetent service departments around. Maybe they don't get enough practice?

Anyway, I feel your pain. I went thru 3 or 4 rounds of the same BS with my local dealer before he finally decided to do what was necessary to fix the darn leaks.

The basic story you'll get is they can't bill trouble shooting to warranty. I know, that's no excuse, they don't have to cuz you can prove the damn thing is leaking.

They'll try to "fix" all the accessible stuff before they do the required digging down below the throttle bodies and tighten all the hose clamps. I got new o rings on the water pump and thermostat before the clamps were tightened. Thanks to assistance from here and other ST forums I knew exactly where to tell them to look, but NOOOOOO! Dummies. The puddle of coolant sitting on top of the V should have been enough evidence to look there, but what can I say. I didn't really want to take my brand new bike apart.

To be fair some ST1300 owners have reported leaks at the water pump and thermostat o rings.

I think most service departments want to do the right thing, it's unfortunate that it takes them so long to realize what the right thing is.

btw, I haven't had a wiff of a leak for 28k miles. Clamps tighetened at about 2k.

Consider it a right of ownership and know it'll be fine for many thousands of miles more.

Good luck

[BillA]

I don't understand how honda can build such a reliable bunch of machines and have some of the most incompetent service departments around. Maybe they don't get enough practice?

They'll try to "fix" all the accessible stuff before they do the required digging down below the throttle bodies and tighten all the hose clamps. I got new o rings on the water pump and thermostat before the clamps were tightened.

Good luck

Mike,

(I edited your post as a quote)

I DID first thing tell them that I am very knowledgeable about this bike and since day one read Internet Forums and have heard the this bike is known to have coolant leaks on a random basis and that many of them are found UNDER the THROTTLE BODY. I told them once again they might want to save time and just do it this time, check under the T-Body if they can’t find it elsewhere.

If I did not love this bike so much I would consider evoking the Three Times your out Lemon Law and ask for a new bike if they can’t get it right….Like that would ever happen.
Besides Blue is faster :04biker:

[puffmtd]

Bill, mine is doing the exact same thing. Had a little puddle one time and nothing since but I can smell antifreeze. No loss of coolant in the overflow bottle. I'm going to wait until it becomes something I can't live with and see if the dealer can handle it.
Oddly enough, the only other bike I have ever had antifreeze leaking problems with was a 2001 Goldwing. Honda needs to hire some new clamp tighteners. :)

[Gurgar]

I don't understand how honda can build such a reliable bunch of machines and have some of the most incompetent service departments around. Maybe they don't get enough practice?

Anyway, I feel your pain. I went thru 3 or 4 rounds of the same BS with my local dealer before he finally decided to do what was necessary to fix the darn leaks.

The basic story you'll get is they can't bill trouble shooting to warranty. I know, that's no excuse, they don't have to cuz you can prove the damn thing is leaking.

They'll try to "fix" all the accessible stuff before they do the required digging down below the throttle bodies and tighten all the hose clamps. I got new o rings on the water pump and thermostat before the clamps were tightened. Thanks to assistance from here and other ST forums I knew exactly where to tell them to look, but NOOOOOO! Dummies. The puddle of coolant sitting on top of the V should have been enough evidence to look there, but what can I say. I didn't really want to take my brand new bike apart.

To be fair some ST1300 owners have reported leaks at the water pump and thermostat o rings.

I think most service departments want to do the right thing, it's unfortunate that it takes them so long to realize what the right thing is.

btw, I haven't had a wiff of a leak for 28k miles. Clamps tighetened at about 2k.

Consider it a right of ownership and know it'll be fine for many thousands of miles more.

Good luck


Actually it is not Honda that is doing this. It is the Owners of the Dealerships.

You can't expect to find qualified people when you only pay $7 to $11 a hour and expect them to bring their own tools also. You add in the fact that there are no benefits and Wal-mart is a better place to work.
You would also be very surprised ( or maybe not) at the Dealerships that don't have any certified Honda Technicians.
These dealers are making money hand over fist selling bikes, atv, and jet ski's.

I do think that Honda needs to require more form its dealers. As the customers, we don't deal with Honda face to face. Honda could have better control.

[BillA]

Bill, mine is doing the exact same thing. Had a little puddle one time and nothing since but I can smell antifreeze. No loss of coolant in the overflow bottle. I'm going to wait until it becomes something I can't live with and see if the dealer can handle it.
Oddly enough, the only other bike I have ever had antifreeze leaking problems with was a 2001 Goldwing. Honda needs to hire some new clamp tighteners. :)


I will update the progress and results. It is crying shame I can't ride this weekend, it is beautiful here in the Pacific Northwest.

[MikeP1300]

Actually it is not Honda that is doing this. It is the Owners of the Dealerships.

You can't expect to find qualified people when you only pay $7 to $11 a hour and expect them to bring their own tools also. You add in the fact that there are no benefits and Wal-mart is a better place to work.
You would also be very surprised ( or maybe not) at the Dealerships that don't have any certified Honda Technicians.
These dealers are making money hand over fist selling bikes, atv, and jet ski's.

I do think that Honda needs to require more form its dealers. As the customers, we don't deal with Honda face to face. Honda could have better control.


Gurgar:
You hit the nail on the head there. I guess mother honda can't "control" everything. The dealer I was talking about has a problem with keeping good mechanics. The last time I had service (valve check) I went to a dealer 70 miles away and let them keep it a week, cuz I felt better about their service dept. I think one needs to check around and try to develope a friendly relationship with the service manager. Most of those guys are working stiffs just like you, trying to keep the boss happy (first), then you.

If you find one that doesn't own and ride a bike, go elsewhere.

[chickenhawk]

Bill,

I had a VERY similar experience at a local dealer. While doing the conversion from a stock ST to a authority ST, I located a very small coolant leak from the area of the water pump that had been dripping on the inside of the lower fairing. I had been smelling that sweet aroma of coolant for a while but never saw the level go down or coolant on the ground. I had taken all of the plastic off to go to paint and decided to take the bike in to the dealer and have them take care of the small problem since I have the extended warrant.

Well, like you I after they got it “fixed”, I took a trailer and went and picked it up and took it home. As I was taking the straps off, there on the trailer was that bright green fluid in a large pool. Oh yeah, before I forget this part of the story... they told me that they had replaced the front cover o-ring seal and that they had to change the engine oil when they did this service due to the fact that some coolant might have gotten into the oil pan. They did not charge me for the replacement motor oil (after I complained) but they did charge me for the oil filter. When I took my bike in to them, it had a Mobil One oil filter on it, and when I was unloading the bike at my house when I discovered the coolant leak was now a gusher, I noticed that it still had my Mobil One oil filter on it, not the ~$13.00 Honda filter I had paid for.

Well another round trip to the dealer on the trailer I went. I had to basically beat them over the head to get them to state that they had jacked my bike up not only by still having the leak but by not installing the oil filer. After going round with them, they had to keep my bike for another week and when I got it back all I got was a “sorry our tech messed up” apology and the oil filer I had to pay for in the first place. Needless to say, I won’t be using that service department again!

David

[Tor]

mmmmm,,,I hope you get it back from the dealer with all the parts attached, and put together right and in working order. Someone not familiar with the ST, and getting ready to take the throttly body off, better work organized. If they don't,,,well,,,,,,,,

This is the reason you need to work on my bike yourself. You just need good tools, a good place to work, a good lift and the service manual. Besides, its fun, and you know its done right. (well in perfect riding weather I guess it wouldn't exactly be "fun".)

When you guys have the plastic off, being for a electric farkle install or whatever, make it a habit to go over the cooling hose connections, making sure they are tight,,,,,,just takes a minute to do.

[pretbek]

you need to work on my bike yourself.

You know... I don't think it is fair to make him work on your bike now, Tor.

:D

[Tor]

You know... I don't think it is fair to make him work on your bike now, Tor.

:D

and why not?? :crackup

Obvously the typing gremlins are at it again. How in the world did that happen,,,,,,,? there is a major difference betw. my and your......the keys are not even close together,they're miles apart,,I mean c'mon.....posted 09:17,,still early though,,,might have been a factor. :shrug2:

[naturally wired]

Same...Same for me also...mine took four trips...the last time they found it to be the water pump its self and replaced it, the thermostat, and all new clamps and cooling lines......it hasn't leaked since...:shock: "KNOCK ON WOOD":shock: .......Good Luck....hope it works out .....have them check the weap hole on the water pump also:-?

[sickchilly]

Seattle area huh? Interested to know who the dealer is, just for personal data reference. (PM me if you don't want it public.)

Also interested in what they finally find as the final fix. Just as another data point for future reference.

And yes, it has been beautiful here since Friday afternoon. Looking forward to a great week as well.

[BillA]

I tell you what...my biggest fear is not them getting it right on the second try it is them putting it all back together again correctly. I will go over the bike as best I can with a fine toothed comb before driving it away (after letting it warm up and a good leak check).

If they don't get it right the second time around I will post the dealer, they could have just had an off day.

Sickchilly I will send a PM.

Thanks guys.

[motoman]

I don't understand how honda can build such a reliable bunch of machines and have some of the most incompetent service departments around.

After having many bad dealer experiences, both Honda and Suzuki, I finally bought a BMW, and for a while I had some wonderful years of enjoying absolutely outstanding, reliable service no matter which BMW dealer I went to. I think it's important to find a dealer you can trust, and not just assume that they all know what they're doing.

Some of the best looking, glitziest ones have the most unreliable and incompetent service.

If you do find one, and they do a great job for you, slip your mechanic a $20. It will absolutely work wonders the next time you come in. :D

[ajaxthegreater]

I think the coolant leak is just due to a poor design by Honda, there are many, many fittings and hoses carrying coolant, and all in the most inacessible places under the throttle bodies. My problems were resolved by just tightening the hose clamps. If they spent a few more bucks on better fittings or less hoses that would have helped.

By the way if your dog licks up the antifreeze (it's sweet) you likely be having a doggie funeral shortly afterward. :(

[vossman]

Is it possible to see the leakage under the throttlebodies without removing them?
I know you have to remove them to tighten the clamps.

[Peelers04ST1300]

Just didn't want to be left-out,Yep, I've got a leaker of green stuff too !!!
Took the plastic off and tried a couple of clamps, and loose they would be.
I'll try and tighten them all myself, so I can avoid taking the ST to the dealer and possibly mess-up something else.
There are some good mechanics and dealers,but unfortunately,there are some bad,and real bad ones also...

My 04 St1300 has 17,000miles on the odometer.
Peeler

[VF1000R]

My 04 is a little different, I smell the coolant, but no visible leaks on the floor. Instead there are splatterings of antifreeze green on the right side vent and on the cylinder head.

Took it to the dealer late last year and left it with a competent mechanic. I had left the leak trail intact so he could follow the path. He thanked me for that.

However , on the way out , he was honest with me and said he could not find any real cause. And if it leaked again , don't clean it off just being it back.

Well guess what, the green splat is back. Frankly it looks like a burp.


So what's on the right side that could cause this symptom ?

[kempco]

Mother Honda could solve these hose leaks by using spring clamps. The screw type clamps that they use don't tighten themselves as the rubber hoses naturally shrink as a spring clamp would.