Question about cornering/lean angle

[AndyK1200S]

I rode the ST1300 for the first time last weekend when I purchased the bike in Scottsdale and rode home to N. California (I wrote about it in the Perfect First Date thread). Since the bike was new to me, and at least 200 or more pounds heavier than anything I had previously ridden, I was pretty nervous on the ride home and took it pretty easy. I had plenty of practice doing the twisties because I chose to come up the Pacific Coast Highway for much of the trip. The bike seemed to handle well, but I was tentative most of the trip.

I didn't get a chance to ride during the week, but I did play with the suspension settings (preload about 3/4 of the way in, and rebound about 1/4 turn short of full hard), and I checked the tire pressure (the dealership had the pressure a little lower than the owner's manual recommends at 38 front and 40 rear, so I filled the tires to the recommended 42/42.

So today was my first time back on the bike. For some reason, everything felt really comfortable as soon as I got on the bike again. I decided to practice cornering with the bike by taking a run up Skaggs Springs Road - this won't mean anything to those of you not from this area, but Skaggs is motorcyling nirvana - 15 miles of constant twisties, banked curves, constant elevation changes, good visibility, perfect asphalt, etc. Nothing too technical, the curves are not exactly sweepers, but not decreasing radius either. Very easy to ride, and even novices will feel like heroes riding this road. The posted speed limit on this road varies from 30 to 40, but sportbikes will easily hit 90 on this road. It is reasonably safe to ride fast because there is very little car traffic and visibility for the most part is excellent. I think law enforcement has kind of given a wink and a nod to let us have a little bit of fun on this road as long as things don't get too out of hand.

Anyway, I have ridden this road hundreds of times over the years on various bikes, and I have NEVER scraped my pegs. Today on the ST1300 I scraped the pegs numerous times and it kind of unnerved me a little.

My questions:

- Is there something wrong with my cornering technique on the ST1300? I did not shift my weight while cornering, but just remained in the middle of the seat and pointed the bike through the corner - the lean angles did not seem extreme to me.

- How much lean angle is left in reserve when the pegs touch down?

- Are the pegs touching down no big deal and I should just not worry about it?

Thanks for any of your expertise.

Andy K

[gnorts]

Did you buy the bike new?

If you bought it used, does it have lowered pegs? Some folks here have talked about the lowered pegs causing contact earlier than they expected.

I have standard pegs, and I've never touched them, but then I'm not a very aggressive rider. Sure am havin' fun, anyway:D

[AndyK1200S]

I did buy the bike used. How can I tell if the pegs have been lowered?

[gnorts]

Here's a page from Motorcycle Larry, a popular vendor of lowering kits.

http://www.motorcyclelarry.com/st1300fp.aspx

[Muskoka]

I did buy the bike used. How can I tell if the pegs have been lowered?

If you have these, that may be your problem.

http://www.motorcyclelarry.com/st1300fp.aspx

[Rob Hephner]

It is a sport tourer, not a sportbike and rather easy to scrape the pegs.

If you are looking for lean angle this is not the right bike.

[Marshal_Mercer]

Andy:

If you scraped the pegs, and the are not lowered, it's because 1) you are very comfortable on the bike, and 2) the ST1300 is a great bike. Have a look at your tires. Any "chicken strips"? If not, you have very little margin for leaning farther, safely. If there is some "unused" tread on the sides of the tires you're not quite "there" yet. When you start to scrape the black parts of the fairing you're beyond "there". Just relax and go for it again and again.

Marshal

[LL27]

I did buy the bike used. How can I tell if the pegs have been lowered?

Hey Andy,

I'm in Novato, if you want to take a look at my stock (pegs anyway) bike for comparison just let me know.

Larry

[HankSTer]

Andy,
assuming your pegs are standard, I think what you've discovered is that the ST is 'undersprung'. It is a sport touring bike obviously, with a bit more emphasis on the touring I'd say.

Recently checked the sag on the front. It's at 2.25" (and I only weigh 150). Should be between 1 and 1.5. So I'm going to install sonic springs. I doubt I will do anything with the rear shock, I usually ride single with little luggage.

The sonics are less then $100. But a change to the rear shock would be pretty expensive I've heard.

How much do you weigh? luggage?

Regards,

[Fred]

Why did you not shift your weight? You can't get a crotch rocket to make a tight turn without shifting your weight. The ST does not make this need go away. Get your butt over, your knee out a little and most importantly your upper body over the inside handlebar. The bike will stand right up and yet the center of gravity remains leaned over where it needs to be. If you can sign up for a track day, I suggest Reg Pridmores CLASS at either Laguna Seca or Willow Springs.

[nm6r]

Checking the sag to make sure your preload is properly set is very good advice. Beyond that, the ST1300 will lean quite a bit further after touching the peg scrapers. It can actually lean all the way to the tipover wing. Just realize, any further than just barely touching the tipover wing and it's all over. After the peg scraper, the tone will change as you will begin to scrape the lower cowl and the rear brake lever or the shifter. Hanging off the bike will increase it's ability through turns but it's still not uncommon to scrape pegs. :cool:

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[ShinySideUpAZ]

I echo Fred's comments. On any bike when running twisties at more then Harley speeds, you should conserve your lean angle. You never know when there might be a hazard in the road, and if you are leaned over and you have to push to the centerline, you want room. Here's the order of things, assuming you don't have the Rear Tip Over Bars - which you should buy immediatly. Peg, then bottom of the lower cowl, then front tip over wing, then muffler then Sky, Ground, Sky, Ground, Sky Ground, Helicopter, Hospital, New bike.

[Brad Felmey]

Peg, then bottom of the lower cowl, then front tip over wing, then muffler then Sky, Ground, Sky, Ground, Sky Ground, Helicopter, Hospital, New bike.

:crackup:crackup

Now, that's funny, right there.

I have made it over to the muffler so far, but I have thankfully avoided the sky/ground scenario. :D

[AndyK1200S]

Thanks for all the replies. It's interesting how the riding styles and techniques seem to run the spectrum from conservative to squid, even with the ST!

I just went out and confirmed the pegs are not lowered - the photos above helped. I have never been comfortable hanging off a bike for some reason - it seems to break my concentration or something. I'll have to try it on the ST and see if I can get used to the feeling. Or I'll just have to get used to touching the pegs and not worry about it too much, as long as I don't start scraping the other bits - that's a little beyond my skill level!

OK - time to go out and practice some more. Blue skies and 70's around here today!

Andy K

[dduelin]

My bike has a different sequence - pegs hit first, then cowl, then centerstand. I haven't touched the tipover wings or mufflers in a turn but hit them once on the ground when I dropped the bike practicing full lock turns in a parking lot. Once I must have downshifted at lean cuz the shifter got scraped and the rubber cover flat-spotted.

As the subject of the thread, the ST1300 is an easy bike to scrape pegs on. First of all it's not blessed with an abundance of ground clearance. It's not a sport bike with high and rear-set pegs and the suspension is on the plush side as opposed to stiff. The handling envelop begs to be explored and the bike invites being cornered hard but it is a sport touring bike not a sport bike. I took my bike to a track day and learned today's sport touring tires are extremely grippy out to the edges. If I don't do something to upset the suspension then I will probably pull back before the tires let go.


http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/DSC_1641.jpg

[Tiny]

My bike has a different sequence - pegs hit first, then cowl, then centerstand. I haven't touched the tipover wings or mufflers in a turn but hit them once on the ground when I dropped the bike practicing full lock turns in a parking lot. Once I must have downshifted at lean cuz the shifter got scraped and the rubber cover flat-spotted.

As the subject of the thread, the ST1300 is an easy bike to scrape pegs on. First of all it's not blessed with an abundance of ground clearance. It's not a sport bike with high and rear-set pegs and the suspension is on the plush side as opposed to stiff. The handling envelop begs to be explored and the bike invites being cornered hard but it is a sport touring bike not a sport bike. I took my bike to a track day and learned today's sport touring tires are extremely grippy out to the edges. If I don't do something to upset the suspension then I will probably pull back before the tires let go.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/dduelin/DSC_1641.jpg

+1....My centerstand hits almost simultaneously with the lower cowl. I back off ReAL quick at that point. The centerstand WILL lever your back tire off the ground if you tilt it 1 more mm from there.

[wjbertrand]

Some sonic springs in the forks to set the sag at about 1.5", a few more cranks on the rear preload adjuster and a little weight shifting can do wonders for the ST's corning clearance. In addition, make sure as much as you can, to have finished all braking before tipping into the corner and then take the whole curve whilst on the throttle. That will tend to raise the bike on it's suspension compared with coasting through and provide additional clearance.

As an last thought, verify that the correct sized 170/60 rear and 120/70 front tire sizes are fitted. I've seen a couple of ST's with 160/60 rears fitted and that will make the bike sit closer to the ground.

[BigTom]

Quote by Andy K1200S
I just went out and confirmed the pegs are not lowered - the photos above helped. I have never been comfortable hanging off a bike for some reason - it seems to break my concentration or something

Andy

You don't have to slide your butt off the seat to make a huge difference in lean angle...You can just stick your head outside the screen on the inside and make an enormous difference. "Take a bite out of the mirror" was what I was told. Also, make sure that the balls of your feet are on the pegs, and that you are leaning forward, not back.

It works! It works! And the practice is oh so much fun!

[AndyK1200S]

OK - thanks guys! Very helpful advice from all angles.

[Clair]

Agreed, you can shift your weight around on the bike and it is a good thing to practice and learn but not necessary for most turns.

I also +1 the idea of conserving your lean angle so you have more of it when you need it. Might I suggest the following: You don't have to shift your butt in the seat. What you can do is shift your shoulders left and right ... way left and right. So, you have a right hand turn coming up ... LOOK right, really LOOK through the turn. Slide your shoulders way right. Stick your chin out. Press down some with your right butt cheek. You don't have to move your butt around on the seat or off it, just have more weight on the inside cheek. Slide those shoulders over. Don't dip them, just slide them, still parallel with the road. This all applies equally for a left curve obviously.

This will shift your weight into the curve. By doing so you'll be able to keep the bike more upright through the turn, thus conserving your lean angle. ANd it can be done without moving your butt off the seat.