New ST? Clutch or No Clutch?

[Mellow]

Just curious, if Honda made a change to the ST and offered an automatic transmission similar to the FJR AE model... would you buy it?

[sherob]

The DN-01 is supposed to be coming out, no clutch for the ST :bow1:

[AgSTreak]

:confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: :mw1: :mw1: :Chair1: :Chair1: :box1: :box1:
No, please!

[Portpandon]

No...
I dont mind automatic transmission on four wheels, but not on two.
The prospect of a gear change while leaning over in a curve does not appeal!
That said, if they made one I would take it for a test ride, but at the current stage of automatic transmission technology, I doubt I'd go for it.

[Byron]

Interesting you mention this Joe. When I was at the bike show in Long Beach I was talking to the Honda folks. The guy mentioned that the auto trans in their Rubicon was bullet proof and he would like to see it in an ST. Was this just out of curiosity or have you heard something?

[lawmanuk]

I tried the clutchless FJR...... and hated it !!!

Ride safe

[ConqSoft]

You mean push button shifting, and not a true automatic, right? A true automatic would scare me more than the push button.

But, I wouldn't want either one. :D

[M&M Take2]

And this would make the next generation ST lighter & more desireable? Thanx but no thanx. Cheers Marty

[Sylvain]

No way!

The motorcycling experience is all about control. :o: May be newcomers to motorcycling will be pleased with this option, one less thing to master. But for old timers I don't think so.

[Mellow]

Interesting you mention this Joe. When I was at the bike show in Long Beach I was talking to the Honda folks. The guy mentioned that the auto trans in their Rubicon was bullet proof and he would like to see it in an ST. Was this just out of curiosity or have you heard something?

No, just out of curiosity, someone on a previous post mention the DN-01 as did Rob here and with Yamaha offering it with the FJR, wondered if Honda was even thinking about it... Personally, I think I'd quit riding first..

[lawmanuk]

There was an article in our weekly motorcycle paper a few months back which mentioned a 1400 version of the Pan European was under development, there was an artists impression of the design but it did not mention anything about clutch/no clutch.

Ride safe

[ParkerBill]

No way I'd want an automatic or push-button, clutchless motorcycle. Maybe I'm old-fashioned and set in my ways, but I love shifting my ST. If anyone wants clutchless/automatic, by a scooter.. :D :D

[tommyboy]

I prefer the clutch. The FJR AE is not automatic, just automatic clutch. It allows you the option of shifting with your left foot or using the push buttons on the left switchgear.

[Jim C-G]

Why? I don't even like automatic shifting in a car. Might as well get an RV, turn on the automatic pilot and go make a coffee out back.

[STArnie13]

I wouldn't spend more money for something that silly. I have heard that the FJR isn't selling very well that way. :03biker:

[Mechanic]

Count me in.
Auto, Cruise, ABS, Handling, Performance, Gear driven cams..yup that'd be a good start.
Better yet make the engine a turbocharged diesel!
Most N.Americans probably aren't familiar with the performance and economy of modern diesels. You're really missing out.
I rented a Grand Caravan last time I was back in Blighty. Identical to the American version but for a diesel motor. It flew, and sipped fuel.

[tommyboy]

No, we call it "Kaalifornia"

[DeSTy]

While CVT transmissions are very good and right on the bleeding edge of tech at the moment, I'm yet to see one that would handle 125HP and still fit inside a motorcycle.

The Suzuki Bergman is a great machine for it's intended use, but if you tried to load it up, like alot of you do with your ST's, you'd find CVT belts would be tearing every few miles.


OH, and if you want an automatic transmission in a real motorcycle, it's obviously time to give up riding and buy another car.

[Papa Bear]

DeSTy, I think you would be surprised with the Bergman. A couple from the east coast of Canada toured all the way to the west coast and back on a loaded up 650 Bergman with absolutely no problems and plan on doing much touring with it. It seems to be a tough little bike!

PB

[Mechanic]

OH, and if you want an automatic transmission in a real motorcycle, it's obviously time to give up riding and buy another car.

OH, and if you want a motorcycle with an electric winshield, full fairing, ABS, luggage capacity, heated grips etc..it's obviously time to give up riding and buy another car ;)

[dond]

While CVT transmissions are very good and right on the bleeding edge of tech at the moment, I'm yet to see one that would handle 125HP and still fit inside a motorcycle.

The Suzuki Bergman is a great machine for it's intended use, but if you tried to load it up, like alot of you do with your ST's, you'd find CVT belts would be tearing every few miles.


OH, and if you want an automatic transmission in a real motorcycle, it's obviously time to give up riding and buy another car.
So if I am not riding what you like, I am less of a rider?
How DO you find a helmet for such a narrow mind?
BTW the CVT belts on Burgman 650s are steel and are just like the ones on the belted CVT equipped cars with more HP than even an ST :eek:

[Herleman]

My little CT 70 had a semi-automatic two speed transmission in 1971. No clutch.

[stonecarver]

No automatic for me please. Guess I just like the old way.

Brian

[PNWSTMan]

Would sure want to drive a bigger Honda bike with one first before I gave a vote. I drive the Silverwing and the power band just isn't there. I also have ridden the Bergman and it was ok but sure hard to get used to. The trans just wasn't as tight as I'm used to on the ST.

[tommyboy]

Heck, My Civic doesn't have 125hp and it has the same size engine as my ST.

[BigTom]

I voted for the automatic, because Joe said "similar to the AE"

My riding buddy has an AE and loves it. It is not an automatic transmission, it is a 'shifting system'. It works just fine. He does trust it enough to downshift in a turn....calling it an automatic is like saying F1 cars have automatic transmissions. They have high speed electric shifters.

Per the 'real automatic' transmission: Paul has it right, and the heat/oil issues are the same with my GS450GA Suzuki. It has your basic 'powerglide' two speed selectable trans, complete with torque convertor, running in the motor oil. The trans is fairly solid, except you can not park it in gear, the left lever is a parking brake:)

I knew I'd be stirring the pot with my vote, I don't think I'd buy it...but I would surely consider it. If Honda came with it, you know it would be good.

[RaYzerman]

There is just something fundamentally wrong about a bike without a clutch. I think.

[motomac]

I would bet that Mother Honda is working real hard to get an automatic for the Gold Wing right now and probalby has been for some time now. When they get it right it will first appear in the Wing and then maybe they will offer it in the ST. As Paul said above the older autos were gutless.

[Gug]

A bike without a clutch with this horsepower just defeats the purpose of harnessing that kind of power. The same applies to a car with alot of HP. It is alot more fun feathering or pounding it through the gears. An automatic removes that thrill.

On the other hand a more lethargic bike or car, then an automatic is fine.

[BigTom]

OK, this is not going well. The FJR AE IS NOT an automatic transmission. It is an electronic clutch/shifter. Like they drive in F1 cars. Like some high end sports cars offer. Paddle shifters, quick and accurate every time, RPM compensating, you can punch the shifter at 1500 RPM or at 8000. The MC will compensate your error. In the case of the AE, it is left thumb down, left first finger up. Flick.

So, for the question (Poll within a Poll).

How many of you that would not try an electronic shifter utterly trust your braking to an electronic gizmo (ABS Brakes)?

[John Anthony]

I tried the clutchless FJR...... and hated it !!!

Ride safe

I did too. I wouldn't say that I hated it, but one of the reasons I ride is that I like the personal feel of controlling the bike and the ride. Just didn't have the same feel at all on the FJR. Maggie had the same feeling.

John

[MARCUS ST1100]

No Thanks..Wouldn't it be a Big *** Scooter??

[saaz]

I would want to see how it work in practice, rather than having preconceived ideas. An electronic shift integrated in with traction control and ABS would probably do better than most riders.

[Scaredy Cat]

I would like to see really intelligent CVT which could handle big-bike power. It would react linearly to throttle inputs instead of the step-change of an auto box, and with some clever electronics could probably reduce rider task-loading in panic situations. "Paddle-shift" like on the FJR is probably OK, but I can't see much benefit (nover tried it I admit) and it takes away some of the rider-bike "mechanical connection" IMHO.
Has anyone ever made a bike where you twist the left hand bar to disengage the clutch, a bit like the throttle on the right? Might take a while to master the technique!...
My car has an auto box which I love cos I don't drive my car for enjoyment much and it doesn't have the power to kick out the rear end if I get an unexpected downshift exiting a corner (which happens a lot!). I don't see a future for normal auto transmissions in performance-biased roadbikes for that reason.

An interesting discussion!

[squirrel Hunter]

Funny that a wing guy would try to start a nasty rumor like this:D

For more than 20 years the rumor was the Goldwing going Auto, I remember the artist concept drawings in the mag's that the 1500s replacement would be 2000cc and use a automatic trans.

[Viggo]

Voted no for the ST. I could see it on a Wing (especially a trike conversion) or some other bike but not on the ST.

[sirepair]

The autos are coming, the autos are coming!

I believe that this is inevitable. But I don't have to like it! As long as a manual transmission is offered, I don't care if the mfg. make automatics available.

I feel that the mfgs will use automatics as a way to attract more riders. How many of you have tried to teach someone how to ride? What is the most difficult part of motorcycling that a new rider is faced with? (other than BDC?) It's learning to use the clutch! How many of you have seen new riders toast a clutch within days? More people will "give up" on riding because they struggle with the clutch. Eliminate the clutch and more people will ride!

When a manual transmission IS NOT available, we have a problem!!

[joaks]

no way just not ridin without a clutch

[jdaniels]

I myself would be one of the first buyers if they put a similar shift system on the STeed.What's not to like.Especially in the heavy traffic stop and go situations.My left forearm really tires after 30 minutes.And these systems probably would be the most popular change honda could make to the bike after people realized it isn't an automatic at all but just a much better way to shift.As for shifting in a curve I think it would add stability because you don't have to open the hand to pull the clutch.I don't use the clutch very often shifting up but of course I use it going down.I try to shift down before I start my line but sometimes I'll screw up and decide a lower gear will be better and I'll shift down during the line and it would be better without having to manually pull the clutch for me personally.:D :biker:

[st1300r]

:eek: Haven't had one in my last 4 cars. Have to pay attention when driving someone else's so I don't put myself thru the windshield trying to shift :D

It's been so long that I don't remember learning how to shift on a motorcycle.
I can see it maybe being a barrier to expanding the market, but I would be surprised if there is much demand for an st1300 with BS (brain-dead shift). It makes more sense for a 1st bike to me.

I learned how to shift car the best way. Someone else's car!:p:

[PLCBithead]

Forget about it. :eek: An automatic clutch is just not right on a motorcycle. I'm guessing Yamaha does not sell very many models without the clutch.

[uptoblackwood]

I want my clutch...
I have owned several Toyota 4-runners....and haven't updated since '98 because the new trucks can't be had with manual transmissions.

Forest

[Bluecrew]

No way!

[STBNE]

Just curious, if Honda made a change to the ST and offered an automatic transmission similar to the FJR AE model... would you buy it?
NOPE!

[st11ray]

NO WAY! How are we ever gonna do burnouts & wheelies on the ST without a clutch?

[93NJST]

If I wanted an automatic I would buy another car!

Cheers,
Adam

[TxStPilot]

well,.....being that i like the electric shifting on my 07 honda rancher 420 es 4x4...ATV......when riding gets spirited on the trails...the es shifting is neat..
i have not ridden in any situation on the rancher where i missed having a clutch......


so..i think i could like the ES shifter on the ST as well......

even though i like the st just like it is...i could also imagine riding it with an ES shifter with no clutch...yeah, i could enjoy that!

other than being stopped or starting off and shifting what else is a manuel clutch for on a motorcycle...?

Clutch?, I dont need no stinking clutch...:D

tsp

[BluesCityST1300a]

The Yamaha isn't an automatic but a clutchless manual. All the reviews I've read were negative because the delay in down shifting would catch the rider off guard. I fail to see the advantage in a ST or any sport touring but I would think it might market better in the Goldwing.

[04ST1300TX]

A motorcyle with an automatic transmission is just wrong on so many levels.

[Greg Gaines]

I talked to a Yamaha dealer and he can't get rid of the auto FJR.
He offered me a great price but then told me it was auto.
I just chuckled. I own a FZ1 that I love, so I also think the FJR is a great bike, but not auto.

[BikemanKZ]

I'm not sure why MC manufacturers even consider it. Shifting a manual on a bike is so quick, easy, and effortless. If someone has a hard time leaving a dead stop with a motorcycle clutch and transmission, then they should think about driving something else. It seems to be just one more way to require less skill and for the manufacturers to appeal to the lowest common denomiator.

KZ

[Brad Felmey]

If they did a great-quality CVT, you bet.

[v65saber]

A friend has a FJR after talking with him Nope, no way
It acts like a go cart clutch :o4:

[Brad Felmey]

I find it interesting that a bunch of Honda fanatics are projecting their feelings about an as-yet unreleased technology by comparing it to a completely different technology put out by a company that isn't Honda.

[Mr Bill]

Well, part of the fun of riding is playing with all the levers and switches. If they take away all of the gadgets, we might as well stay home and watch TV.

Perhaps if the shifting was controlled by "thought" via an integrated processor in our helmets there might be some worth to this idea.

Nah! If I wanted a scooter, I would have bought one.

I'm sticking with the idea of just being one of those who is "full of shift".

:bsflag:

[echo]

No automatic transmission and NO DISPLACEMENT INCREASE!

[NoBull]

What would be the advantage of "paddle " shifting? If I could shift normally with clutch, or choose to use a paddle which electronically clutched, shifted and released a clutch similiar to Porsche or Ferrari. I would be willing to give it a look see..But automatic no..

[dteel]

"similar to the AE"

My riding buddy has an AE and loves it. It is not an automatic transmission, it is a 'shifting system'. It works just fine. He does trust it enough to downshift in a turn....calling it an automatic is like saying F1 cars have automatic transmissions. They have high speed electric shifters.


Like Tom, I have a friend that has the FJR with the autoshifter. After he owned it for awhile I had a long talk with him about what he thought. He said at first he wasn't sure he was going to like it, but after awhile it grew on him. What he told me is that he's come to love it, he says it much easier to deal with and sitting in traffic doesn't cause cramps in his clutch hand. I respect this guy, he's a long time rider and he has no reason to BS me.

I also know BigTom's friend with the FJR and I've ridden with him, the guys is fast, I can attest to the fact that it doesn't slow him down any.

The bottom line is that I'd be willing to give it a shot because of people that I respect saying it's ok. I won't knock it until I've tried it myself.

I remember having the same discussion about cars with automatic transmissions, I didn't think that I'd ever own one. So much for that....

I didn't vote, the two choices are too black and white for me. I'd be willing to consider it, I can't say I'd love it and I'm not married to the clutch.

[Doobage]

As a paddle shifter...I'd vote yes...not that I need it, but I'd be willing to try it.

A true automatic...no way.

My concern is how, like on the FJR, do you pull in the clutch when riding in really slow traffic?

I often pull in the clutch while in first gear at stop lights so that I can roll at 2 mph as the cars stack up in line or before a light turns green.

Finding neutral by playing with the gear shifter (by hand or foot) would seem very odd for such situations. I also like the slow release of the clutch. It makes the ride much more analog than digital, especially when I'm riding with a pillion and not hammering on the throttle.

I'd like to try it, but not sure I would want to own it. I would have voted "maybe" as a choice (for the reasons I've given).

Part of me also likes the use of all my limbs. I've been thinking that my daughter might grow up in a world where "everything" is boolean. And little reminders of the warmth of analog is something I don't want her to miss and I wonder if it will affect the culture by living under that technology.

[MARCUS ST1100]

NO WAY....!! One of the best thing about riding is shifting, if I wanted an automatic I would get a Maxi Scooter

[kindofblue]

I prefer the clutch. The FJR AE is not automatic, just automatic clutch. It allows you the option of shifting with your left foot or using the push buttons on the left switchgear.

True. It's electrical instead of manual clutch only. I know, I had one. While I loved the smoothness of the shifting (and faster than I could ever do), I could never get used to the way the bike launched like a scooter. So I sold it.