Metz Z6 question

[ssls6]

I've read the Z6 comes in two grades. The A grade is for bikes under 500lbs and the B grade is for bikes over 500lbs. It appears that the Z6 that is properly sized for the ST13 rear is an A grade tire. So, I'm considering using the 180/55 rear on my bike instead. This is a B grade tire design for one of the BMWs.

The size difference is only 1% in total diameter and 10mm wider in total width. I'm sure it will fit. What do you guys think? If this doesn't get me what I want then I'll do the 880 mix thing.

[dond]

The 55 aspect ratio doesn't concern me. The 180 does. The tire will not properly fit the rim. The tire bead will not be perfectly matched to the wheel. I do underSTand your reason and it is a delema.

I vote no.

[ssls6]

The 55 aspect ratio doesn't concern me. The 180 does. The tire will not properly fit the rim. The tire bead will not be perfectly matched to the wheel. I do underSTand your reason and it is a delema.

I vote no.

Do you know what rim is used on the ST? Is it a 5" or 5.5"?

I found the answer. The bike has a 5" rear rim. Well Dond you right on this one. The 180 needs another 0.5" of rim to work properly. Looks like I'll be doing the 880 thing.

[rocky17]

I have an ME Z6 installed on the rear wheel. Are you saying that the tire is rated for 500 pound bikes or less? where did you find that information. :mad:

[ssls6]

I have an ME Z6 installed on the rear wheel. Are you saying that the tire is rated for 500 pound bikes or less? where did you find that information. :mad:

You're OK. The A/B rating thing appears to only apply to the 180 tire. The ST would have been better served with that tire but we can't use it. I'm going to follow the advise listed here and go with either the Z6 rear or 880 rear depending on availability.

[BikemanKZ]

I put a 180/55 Dunlop D205 on the rear with no ill effects except that I noticed I no longer rubbed right to the edge of the tread as with the correct size. The only real problem I had was the dealer in Park City Ut put the rear caliper on badly resulting in the inner pad binding up and being worn off on a bevel; and my mileage suffering until I discovered the problem the next day. I only got 6,000 miles out of that tire, which is not unusual for me and tires so far.
KZ

[SporTnTR]

Re what dond says here: <<The tire will not properly fit the rim. The tire bead will not be perfectly matched to the wheel. >>

I agree, i think you're taking a bit of a chance KZ. Might only be a .5 inch dif in rim width, but i have a feeling that is pretty significant dif when it comes to tire design. Especially the last few years of tire design. The narrower rim is pulling in on the edges of the tire forcing it to conform to a shape it was not meant to be run at. Also, and this is equally if not more important, the bead will not be allowed to sit perpendicular to it's intended rest position, thereby possibly allowing a loss of air given the right circumstances.

Is the rear 880 considered not as sticky as the rear Z6? I would like to see a bit more meat on the area of the Z6 that is nearer the very edge of the tire. I tend to wear this area out faster than the centre, and the ST lends itself well to this. Many of our tighter roads here are cold float-top, poured tar and chip. The surface is brutal on rubber. I only got 3600 mi out of my rear OEM 020. Did fr at same time but it had maybe another 300 mi in it tops. Somewhere i was just reading a post on a dif thread from a chap in Guelph that uses a tire sealant to keep tire temps down, thereby increasing tire life [what the maker claims]. I wonder if this is a) true? and b) if it does keep tire cooler then maybe the rubber is not heated to it's expected temp to perform properly? This is likely only an issue for those of us who push it. Any thoughts on this?

[hippo888]

I ran into this issue when I switched my bike to the Z6's. The Metzler website is basically useless, so I went to the dealership and looked up the information on paper.

What I remember is that the the "normal" Z6 rear has a sufficient weight rating for the ST1300. The "heavy weight" Z6 rear has a higher weight rating and maybe more tread depth (my memory is bad) but won't fit the ST1300.

Thanks Honda, for putting an oddball size tire on the ST1300.

[hippo888]

Don't use tire sealant unless it's an emergency. Long-term use will corrode/destroy your rims and make who ever changes your tires hate you.

[Horst]

wow .. that's not much especially as the BT020's are supposed to last closer to 8,000 and 10,000 ... did ya ride on bad surfaces or just burn out lots :)

[SporTnTR]

No i never do burn outs or wheelies. But do very aggressive cornering most times, and on fairly rough surface type of pavement. Around here they call it float-top. On my 954 i only got 1640 mi out of the OEM BT012's. The front was practically toast also so it was sw out at same time. Then switched to Sportec M1's and still only got 2000 mi out of the rears but was getting about 3000mi out of the M1 front. Again never did burnouts and rarely ever used rear brake even. It is just accelerating hard and cornering hard and i guess combined with the surface around here, makes for poor tire life. A friend who i ride with has an R1 who is a little more aggressive than i am and his lowest miles on rear was 1200 or 1300 and best was 2100 last summer. I think he replaced 6 rears and 3 fronts, all M1's last summer. Although the 020's work well on the ST, i did try an experiment with an 020 on the rear of the 954. It was not a good tire for that much power and light weight of bike. The tire did surprisingly well on hot rolled smooth pavement, but skipped, chattered and tried to constantly high side you on all the other float-top. The reason the 020 works so well on the ST is likely due to the extra weight to hold it down, even on rough surface. I have put only 200 mi on new Z6's now and am awaiting spring and will let you know how they grip and last compared to the 020's. I was impressed with the 020 grip and stability. Now, all i've noticed immediately after the change to Z6's is a slight weave that seems to be coming from the fr end once doing about 105 and up. Have 40 psi in fr 42 in rr, will bump the fr 2 psi and bump a little more rear preload come spring but am skeptical that that will get rid of the slight weave. The 020's were rock solid for me. If these Z6's last a lot longer than the 020's and have at least as good a grip then i will buy another pair of Z6's when time comes. In other words, the weave is gentle enough that it isn't spoiling my fun. [i have no top case and just rain gear in the bags].

Just out of interest, it is absolutely amazing how well the big ST does when chasing the R1 now. Much more arm work when working the tight stuff and obviously doesn't have nearly as much clearance, but does do way better than a bike of it's gerth has any right to. Even on long straights the R1 doesn't walk away from the ST all that fast. Although it runs amazingly efficient even being aggressive in the tighter sections once you get out onto a bigger, faster and more wide open road it can really suck the gas tho if you spend much time between 120 and 140.

[Horst]

... I take it you mean 120 to 140 MPH right ... for me it's usually 120 to 140 kmh, but I look forward to Spring also and hope to explore 'the ton'.

Just out of interest, I had Michelin Pilot Sports put on my former R1150R, and wow, I've never experienced such grip, cornering, and handling ... of course I have limited sportbike experience, having ridden friend's and brother's ZX11 and VFR's ... oh and the dealers ST13 :)

Horst,
ST11A

[SporTnTR]

Ya i was talking mph Horst.
I've never ridden on Pilot Sports yet. But i have friends who have. Their comments were always much the same about them; a little slow to heat up, but once they do and it is dry pavement they liked the grip and rounded profile. Apparently they can scare the c out of ya in the wet tho.
Don't think they make an ST size in those. What are you using now, 020's?
btw when exploring higher speeds that you haven't done before do it in small steps the higher you go. Then you get to see and feel at a progressive rate, how fast things can happen when you're pushing it higher than your usual. Certain sections of your fav road will start to reveal corners at speed, that you thought for years was just a fairly straight part. Work your way up gradually, you'll see what i'm talking about.
But hey, be safe.
Bring on that spring.

[Pansmiker]

Horst

I asked Michelin to advise what they recommended for the Pan European so as I knew what to ask for when the time came to change. My experience to date with Michelin has only been good. I have used them on Suzuki 600 and 1200 Bandits, R1150RT etc. I was told - The fitment for Honda ST 1300 Pan European (European Model only)

Front:120/70 ZR 18 (59W) TL Pilot Road @ 2.5bars/36psi
Rear :170/60 ZR 17 (72W) TL Pilot Road A @ 2.9bars/42psi

They seem to be going for Pilot Road rather that Sport.

The conditions you ride in have a big influence on tyre choice. The weather, the road surface, your weight, the load on the bike, back roads, motorways (Autoroute / Freeway) even how straight or bendy the road is!

In Ireland we don’t have straight roads. When out riding you are either going round a bend or setting yourself up for one! The straightest piece of local road is called the Seven Mile Straight. I think I tried to measure it one time but didn’t actually get to seven miles but hey this is Ireland, the land of storytelling, so why let facts spoil a good one. Regardless of the actual length “straight” does not mean “flat” as this road runs over the mountain behind Belfast.

I am going to get the bike out and go for breakfast. It is a warm (all relative) 9c outside. In fact another few degrees and it would be an Irish summer’s day. :D

Paul

[Horst]

... the Michelin Sport's are intended for intense (dry) sport biking, yes.

The Pilot Road is the intended ST and RT type as Pans says ... ;)

[Bbingham]

I have been trying to work out the weave I experienced with my new "6s" behind trucks and up above 100. I have done the retorquing of front fork mounts, tire mounts and steering head bearing, etc. I am currently running 42/42 in tires. Running with just me (180 pds) on bike and mostly full tank I found I had to adjust preload up two notches from standard to reduce weave in truck wake and upwards in speed. I have surmised that my weave is partly due to design and early tire wear on Metzlers as others have concluded. Some have said give them a few thousand. They are very sensitive to rider input and to suspension adjustment (and maybe to tire pressure, which I will fiddle with). My OEM's where the Bridgestones and they were rock solid throughtout 8000 miles and never showed this tendency the Metzlers have shown. :confused: the Rev.

[baldone04086]

Checked the Bridgestones ratings (got 16000 miles on last set) they are: Front 59W, and Rear 72W. The Metzeler Z6's have the same weight rating. Should be interchangeable.

[Carl_T]

They are very sensitive to rider input and to suspension adjustm Is this possibly part of it? I had my ST in a truck wake for the first time today. I was getting a slight but noticeable weave (windshield all the way down so I was getting lots of the air on my body). I realized since I was on the slab and being a tad lazy, I was leaning on my hands some so I put my weight on the foot pegs, squeezed the tank a bit with my knees and removed all weight from my arms/hands. The bike stopped its tiny weave, and rode rock solid and straight. I've still got the OEM STones on.

So, I'm wondering if the Z6 is just a faster turning, more rider input sensitive tire, and the wind is moving the rider’s shoulders? If so I'd guess this would translate to more precision in the turns as the trade off.

[seiseman]

Michelin has, and does make, the Pilot Roads in the correct size- just look at the Michelin UK site. However, they just don't sell them in the USA. I spent 2 months talking to the Michelin rep, the Parts Unlimited rep and to SWmoto trying to get the tires. (Supposedly there "many" tires sitting in a US Michelin warehouse.) All nice people and all trying to be cooperative but just couldn't get it together. I even tried to get someone in the UK (where the tires are readily available) to buy them and ship them to me. I finally gave up.

[John-DownUnder]

Weave of the ST13 behind trucks is well reported (regardless of tire make).

Milage I've gotten out of my rear 020s: 6,250 (OEM), about 5,600 and 5050.
From front 020s: 12,000 (OEM) and 10,500.

I'm hard on tires, so what am I going to get out of front and rear Z6's?

[baldone04086]

Just returned from 6 days riding in the Alps on board a R1200 RT BMW with Z6 tires. My next set of tires on the ST will be the Metzeler Z6's. I do not care about the mileage. They stick like glue, wet and dry. Amazing tires.