Stebel Horn Problem

[Scarman]

I installed the Stebel Nautilus compact horn a couple weeks ago. Install went fine for the most part. Yesterday I finally had a chance to get out and ride a bit. When I tried the horn... nothing.

Hmm... so off with the plastic once again to see what's wrong. I found that pushing on the horn button was triggering the relay because I could feel and hear it clicking. So next I checked the switched contacts and found there was no contact. Odd since I can hear the relay switching.

Hmm... OK so I pop open the relay to see if what I suspect is really happening. In deed I find exactly what I thought I was going to find and I was just a bit ticked off to say the least. It's been sitting in my clean dry garage since the install. Here are the pics of what I found:
So much for those high quality relays they provide for us.

16441

16442

[Mark]

Ouch!!!
Where did that relay come from?
Nasty!

Mark

[HankSTer]

wow, did that relay come with the stebel horn? If yes, I'd be tempted to contact the person that sold it and let them know you are sending a bill for the labor to pull it apart again and repair it...

amazing,

[2dogs]

I just ordered some Hyper lites and I'm looking for a horn upgrade.
Please let us know where that high quality relay came from so others don't get more of the same..... and /or if the dealer/ manufacturer stands behind the product etc.

:06biker:
Thanks for posting,
Dave

[Scarman]

Same relay that came packaged with the Stebel horn.

[UNTMatt]

I just ordered some Hyper lites and I'm looking for a horn upgrade.
Please let us know where that high quality relay came from so others don't get more of the same..... and /or if the dealer/ manufacturer stands behind the product etc.

:06biker:
Thanks for posting,
Dave

The Stebel is a great horn they just come shipped with a second rate relay. We sealed up mine with silicone sealant and I have not had a problem with our relay in the past year.

[J.Murphy]

I fitted a Stebel last year and, after about 2 months, it started working intermittently, i.e. sometimes it was fine, sometimes didn't sound at all. I checked the wiring for breaks, dismantled the horn-button in the handlebar switch and eventually narrowed it down to an intermittently-faulty relay. Changed it for one form a normal auto-shop and it has been trouble-free since. I think Stebel must have a dodgy relay supplier.

[Highrider]

It looks like the relay was submerged in water for a while. Probably a China piece, check if there is a "Made in XXX" on the plastic.
Another thing we found is that it is easy to install the relay upside down on the frame. This will cause it to fill with water and fail over time.

[Geoff]

After seeing those pics and reading that others have had similar problems, I dont think I would be installing that on my bike....besides the obvious problem I would think there is a possibility of it shorting out and causing more serious problems even though it only works off the horn button..I also would be on the phone to the maker with quite a few things to say and then give them the address of this web site to see how many members read this. That is riduculous...looks like as someone above said it spent a lot of time under water.

[Blrfl]

Did it work before you buttoned everything up, or did it work for awhile and fail?

--Mark

[UNTMatt]

After seeing those pics and reading that others have had similar problems, I dont think I would be installing that on my bike....besides the obvious problem I would think there is a possibility of it shorting out and causing more serious problems even though it only works off the horn button..I also would be on the phone to the maker with quite a few things to say and then give them the address of this web site to see how many members read this. That is riduculous...looks like as someone above said it spent a lot of time under water.

Solution is simple, buy the Stebel, throw the one that came with the Stebel in the trash and buy a high quality relay.

[egar]

I have a Stebel on the way. If I wanted to change out and buy a better relay, where do I go and what exactly do I ask for?

[29PalmsMark]

I have the Stebel horn installed as well and after seeing Scarmans's relay, I decided to open mine up as well. Mine looked nothing like his as mine was still shinny and pretty inside, although I will say that it is rather cheap looking. My relay says "made in Italy" as I'm sure all of them packaged with the Stebel horn will be. I just used one of the other sealed relays I got from Eastern Beaver for my horn install which are sealed and made in Japan.

I'm just wondering if the whole packaged was submerged in water and the air pump on the horn may have the same damage inside. How did the paperwork look like when you opened the package?

[Scarman]

I just went down to Autozone and picked up a standard 12v 30amp relay off the self. New relay is already sealed, but I used weather proof connectors and then used goop to seal the connections and ensure they don't vibrate lose.

Did it work before you buttoned everything up, or did it work for awhile and fail?
The stebel relay worked when I tested it off the bike. It worked when I tested it after completing the wiring. It also worked after I put all the plastic back on the bike. Two weeks later I finally get a chance to ride and no horn.

[Gene McCall]

Scarman, your post on the relay gives me concern but nothing I can do. Just yesterday I installed the same horn, relay and all on my ST1100. That sucker is loud! I saw your picture of the relay on the Pashnit board a few minutes ago and I got a little sick. My horn is mounted in the upper right fairing, zip tied to the frame. I mounted the relay where the old horn was on the left side and just above the radiator. It will certainly receive punishment from the elements and heat. At least I can enjoy it until it dies, then get another relay. I ran 12ga wire direct to the battery with an inline 20 amp fuse. I have to say my Harley neighbor who has been messing with me with his loud pipes was quite subdued when I cut loose that the horn! I bet he has one within a month!:biker:

[J Solo]

I had to replace the driving lights on the car 2 or 3 years ago. Ordered an identical set of 'catz' lights that I had before, but just used the actualy lenses. The rest of the kit sat in the box until recently.

I used the wiring and relay that came with it. It's a significantly more compact unit than the standard bosch 30amp relay. Still rated at 30 amps.

The relays used in piaa lights are high quality too.

Can't go wrong with the Stebel!

[Scarman]

It all looked good. No sign of dampness or condensation of any kind. My first thought was that a pallet of these things got left out in the rain or an area where they got thoroughly soaked. It looks like it had been wet for a long time or perhaps salt water. That's a lot of corrosion.

If it wasn't for the enamel coating on the coil wire, that thin copper stuff would have corroded long ago. Since the coil winding was still in tacked the relay was able to operate the contact arm. My first ride out probably shook what little was left of the relay contacts apart and that was all she wrote.

Still working fine at this point, but I haven't had anyone deserving of a blast cross my path yet. I'm interested in seeing how effective it is at waking up the next comatose cell phone idiot.

I'm just wondering if the whole packaged was submerged in water and the air pump on the horn may have the same damage inside. How did the paperwork look like when you opened the package?

[MNwing]

My horn arrived today and just opened the box, the relay is in a plastic case, but there is something that rattles inside, so hope its ok. Guess I will find out when I get it installed and hooked up.

[Viggo]

Bob, I don't think there's anything in that relay case that should rattle. I would open it up and take a look. If it's okay, re-seal the case well to prevent any water seepage.

[Scarman]

Agreed, it shouldn't rattle. The case is not sealed so a small screwdriver pops it open without any effort. If it looks fine inside then I would snap the cover back on and seal it up with some silicone.

Bob, I don't think there's anything in that relay case that should rattle. I would open it up and take a look. If it's okay, re-seal the case well to prevent any water seepage.

[Jim Davis]

In my opinion a relay that's not a SEALED RELAY has no place on a bike. If you can lift the cover off of it, throw it in the bin.

You know what they say - you get what you pay for, well it's true with relays. You can get a relay for 2 or 3 dollars but what is it actually worth? Less than nothing when it fails quickly.

The Omron relays that PIAA uses are not too bad. They are sealed and made in Japan. They're not a cheap relay.

Don't be fooled by the rating of a relay either. The manufacturers rate them themselves to whatever they feel is a useful life.

(warning commercial rant)
The relays I use and sell are made by Panasonic. They are 40A relays that will withstand a 70A current inrush. In fact they will stand up to 50A continuous current. Panasonic rates them at 40Amps.

Some sealed relays have thin plastic caps that are basically glued onto the base. Panasonic relays are epoxy filled and have a heavy duty heat proof cover and will survive a 6 foot drop onto concrete. Yes they test them that way.

I've sold a few thousand Panasonic relays over the past 4 years and I've only had one failure. That relay had 3 years and over 100,000 miles on it - with a headlight modulator no less.

One customer told me my relays worked great but the clicking was annoying. He told me he had his modulator feeding the relays for over 4 months and many miles. Can you imagine how many relay actuations that must have been (4 per second)? The Panasonic relays were still working fine when I told him he had to plug the modulator in directly on the bulb after the relays. I sent him replacement relays for free.

A $14,000 bike deserves high quality relays. YOUR bike deserves high quality relays.

The corroded Stebel relay should go back to where it was bought. And they should be told if they can't provide a decent sealed relay don't bother including one at all.

[MNwing]

Opened the case and a gob of solder fell out. Now to get it RTV'd and hope for the best. Thanks to those of you who suggested opening it up.

[J Solo]

Good thing I didn't use their included relay.. With my luck the damn thing would be stuck closed driving the neighbors nuts before the battery runs down.

I will have to take mine apart to see how well it looks inside.

[DHTracker]

This after market electrical stuff is starting to worry me. If the premier recommended horn and relay is partly garbage, I sure don’t want it on the bike for obvious reasons. I’m getting out my West Marine and Overtone’s catalogue to see what is available for the marine industry. High vibration and exposed to moisture? Sounds familiar. Thanks for the heads-up

[tommyboy]

I just installed my Stebel horn yesterday. I was in the garage with the bike facing out (using ambient light - more that just a horn install yesterday). I have not buttoned up the bike, so tonight I will go in and seal the relay and turn it so the blades are facing down. When I hit the horn my neighbor across the street jumped!

[Scarman]

Just as a follow up: I did send an email with pics to stebel and they never responded.

[Scarman]

OK here's a scary update to my horn issue.

It's 10:30 PM at my house right now. At 10:00 PM I got a call from my neighbor saying there is an alarm or something going off in my garage. As I walk towards the end of the house where my garage is, I here my Stebel horn going off as loud as can be. Just as I open the garage door the horn shuts down.

When I approach my bike, I smell the distinct odor of an electrical fire and I hear the snap crackle fizz coming from under my dash where the horn is installed. I immediately pull the side panel off and disconnect the battery and the fizzing sound stopped. Now I pull all the right side plastic off and remove the horn. That sucker is damn hot. Too hot to touch for more than a second.

How the heck does this happen? The fuse is good so how could it draw enough current to burn like that. I guess it shorted internally and drew enough current to burn but not enough to blow the fuse. If my neighbor hadn't called, I could have had a fire in my garage. Until I disconnected the battery the horn was sizzling away. Makes me real gun shy about messing with another horn.

Maybe that corroded relay should have been my warning of a bigger problem.

[Jim Davis]

Hard to say exactly what happened but the relay may be at fault. Which is why I recommend again, always use a top quality SEALED relay that is rated for the load.

That horn is not designed to blow continuously and that's why it got hot and maybe melted some wires.

[J Solo]

The horn itself could NOT be activated on its own.

You either had a short in the horn switch (possible but unlikely), or the relay shorted somehow.

I don't know what kind of chinese knock off relays they include with it, but i'm glad I used something higher quality.

I guess the moral here is that any aftermarket accessory should be thoroughly checked periodically to make sure all the connections are good, and no corrosion....

[Jim Davis]

I just checked back in the thread and he is using the same relay which was corroded. I'd bet money that relay's contacts decided to close.

Moral is, if a relay looks bad, toss it out and get a good one, a SEALED one.

Anyone reading this who has used the stock Stebel relay, avoid future problems by replace it NOW.

[Scarman]

Please give me some credit Jim. I'm not dense enough to use the same relay. I bought a sealed relay and yes oddly enough the new relay was shorted. So that's probably what happened. Dumb a$$ relay shorted some how and overheated the horn. How could I be so lucky...

[Jim Davis]

Please give me some credit Jim. I'm not dense enough to use the same relay. I bought a sealed relay and yes oddly enough the new relay was shorted. So that's probably what happened. Dumb a$$ relay shorted some how and overheated the horn. How could I be so lucky...

Sorry I went back in the thread and you said you'd put it back in and it was working. I assumed it was still in there.

Hell of a coincidence then that a new relay would do this.

Check your relay connections are correct.

If you used a relay with coil suppression and the coil terminals need proper polarity, did you check the polarity of the wires attached to it?

On the ST1100 wiring diagram the horn is fed power from the horn button, the dark green wire on the stock horn is the negative lead. The ST1300 is likely the same, but check with a meter!

In any case it may have had nothing to do with your install, might just be bad luck. Sometimes I've noticed when something goes wrong, something else will go wrong. Strange but true sometimes.

As to the wire melting, you should have had a 20A fuse and at least 14 AWG wire. Usually the first thing to get hot is a poor connector and when the connector heats the wires starts melting. What kind of terminals and crimper did you use?

[Gene McCall]

Scarman, just a note, an in line 20 amp fuse came with my stebel. It now lives a few inches from the battery connected to a 12 ga line from the horn. The Stebel relay is working fine but I have a sealed 40 amp relay on the way from Jim. I mounted the relay with the connectors pointing up. That made it easier and put the relay just a little further away from the hot radiator. I will probably mount the new relay the same way but I will devise a rubber cover of some sort to prevent water from standing around the connectors! My experience with the Stebel has been great! Recently on the interstate I was passing an 18 wheeler when he hit his flashers to move over. I hit a long blast on the horn and he promptly canceled his blinkers and moved back into his lane!:biker:

[Scarman]

Hi Jim,
I checked everything and all was good. Nothing wet, everything sealed, all connectors tight. I ran 10 awg wire from the battery to the horn protected with a 20 amp fuse. I suspect that the horn simply overheated and burned itself out. The wiring was all good but the horn was too hot to touch.

I was an electrical engineering major in school and worked several years as a product engineer for HP designing Freq counters & DVMs. I have a pretty extensive electrical & electronics background. If I read this post, I would be thinking he's not telling the whole story. Relays don't just short like that. I still don't believe it, but...

Gene,
That's a pretty much how I had mine setup. 10 awg wire routed to the horn through a flex conduit and a 20 amp fuse a few inches from the positive battery terminal. I used water proof spade connectors at the relay and then sealed it all in silicone. The silicone was a bit of a pain to remove since I now have to replace everything. I'll do it the same way but I won't be using the Stebel relay and I'll probably mount the relay elsewhere.

[wjbertrand]

Were either of the relays originally mounted with the connectors facing up? Did you wash the bike either time after you put it back together? So far, I've had no trouble with the relay facing down, supplied with 12GA wire and protected by a 15A fuse positioned as close to the battery as possible. Mine's pushing 2 years service at this point.

[tommyboy]

I mounted my relay (stock, after sealing the edges) up next to the horn. I decided after reading all the posts that mounting it where the old horn mounts is not a good idea. It puts it right in the weather. Even though the upper dash is exposed to the elements, it from the rider side, not the front of the bike. I'll keep an eye on it, though.

[Sink]

I had a FIAMM air horn on my Kaw 440LTD a few years back. Same cheap a$$ relay... same problem. Relay shorted out. I was riding and pulled over and pulled a wire off of the horn so it would stop blowing. Good thing I was on the bike at the time. I would recommend NEVER using the cheap relays they send with these horns..... OK, I have to take the plastic off and replace mine as I just installed it a couple of days ago and forgot the problems I had with the Fiamm........

[Jim Davis]

As to mounting a relay, on my Horn Kits I locate the relay half way from battery to horn. This puts the relay in a more protected place, usually under the gas tank. For an ST1100 that would likely be up along side the airbox under the top cover.

If you're mounting a relay in the front and open, no matter which direction is faces it can get wet. I'd then add a large piece of shrinktube over the contacts. Heat it, and pinch it around the wires with a small zip-tie. It'll seal the relay well.

I would not suggest slathering any kind of goop over the contacts, that may provide a path for electricity if it gets an oily film or even rain water. Plus it'll be a pain if you have to change anything later.

Look at where Honda mounted the headlight relays. If you can mount a horn relay up near them facing down, that would also work.

[Scarman]

Thanks for some of the ideas. I bought a heavy duty 40 amp relay and wiring harness from the local electronics supply house. I mounted the relay next to the screen up/down relays high up in the front fairing and I wrapped the relay & harness in that rubber electrical tape that bonds to itself to form a strong water tight seal. Every connection was made with water proof connectors and then wrapped. It's as water tight as a frogs a$$. I'm honking at 130 some odd db once again. Hopefully not in the middle of the night this time.

What I really need to do is install a relay controlled fuse block and run everything through the fuse block.

[Gene McCall]

Scarman, that is exactly what I am doing on my 1100. However, I think I will still leave the horn direct to the battery with the 20 amp in line fuse. I have decided to locate the fuse block in the left fairing pocket. It has 6 positions and I will be using 5 of them, without the horn. That would leave me 1 for the future. One of the items already installed is a powered deer whistle. I will also be wiring my TomTom rider, 2 power plugs, a tire pressure monitor and future installation of Sirrus or XM radio. I may add a ham 2 mtr radio.:biker: