Thoughts on a 1200RT??

[Bobbydog]

What are people's view of the BMW 1200RT in relationship to the ST1300?

Folks that have owned one?
Folks that compared the RT before getting an ST?

Plusses / Minuses ?

I have a friend or two that have owned the 1150RT and are just as smittened as ST1300 owners are with their rides. I'd just like to get an idea of what folks think of the two rides in comparison to each other....

Bobbydog

[AndyK1200S]

I testrode the R1200RT before settling on the ST1300. Fantastic bike, really, and the handling is phenomenal, but I like the motor on the ST better than the boxer on the RT. Smoother, more power and torque - I just fell for the V-4 motor. The RT is much lighter than the ST - I think it weighs in the low 500 range.

AndY K

[fitenfyr]

Probably as nice of a ride in my opinion, but the cost to purchase and maintain are way more than the ST I felt.

I was shopping the RT's and the ST when I bought my '05 ST.
It was easily 5K less than the same year BMW (if I could find a new one).

My wife has a F650GS...while not an RT it is still a Beemer. :D
I think the you get what you pay for so if the price is not out of line you will certainly be happy with the BMW.
Her 650 is probably one of the nicest thumpers I have ever ridden, but it is easily 2K more than an equivelant rice burner.

[John Anthony]

We've got one in our garage, right next to my ST. They are a nice ride, much better than the K bike with all of it's problems. The '06 RT is my wife's bike and I've put several hundred miles on it. It's a nice bike to ride, but it's not an ST.

The ST is much smoother (not as torquey as the RT is) and feels a lot more solid on the road. Of course I've spent a lot more time on the ST than Maggie's RT, so some of these perceptions might change if the time in saddle was reversed, but I also liked the feel of the transmission and brakes. (the former is smoother and the latter more positive). For us, the jury is out on long term maintenance costs, although I expect they'll be more than the ST. Less power for passing with the RT and definitely slower off the line.

Plusses for the RT are lighter weight and lower center of gravity as well as no heat issues. It's also more precisely put together (a bit better on the engineering side). Gear indicator and cruise are standard. (wife tells me she likes RT gears better than ST) Electronic suspension (ESA) is sweet. Wife likes Canbus electrical system, I think it's a pain to deal with especially for accessories. Maggie also likes the sound of the RT (no whine). More choice on colors.

PM me if you want to talk with my wife. She is very knowledgeable when it comes to motorcycles, not because she's ridden such a long time, but because she's gone through so many, many bikes!!!

John

[brianm767]

I've never ridden the RT1200 but my friend has one, he also test rode the ST, he says if he could do it over again, he would buy the ST.

[805gregg]

I rode with one all day, corners better with more clearance in turns, could stay with me except when passing ST smoked it top end.

[MrClean]

The BMW dealer in Phoenix has the ST & FJR for sale and test ride , I did along with the 1200RT , ...................

I had a 1500RT for 1.5 years , put 4K miles on it .
Bought my ST Feb 5th , this year , already 4K miles .

Apples and oranges they are , you gotta love 'em both .
One is not better than the other , just different in good ways .

I would change to the 1200RT , just for the added variety .

I remember riding the ST that day , I knew I was at home with the smoothness and torque , the weight does suck.
Imagine the power if the weight was 200 pounds less on the ST .

[BamaRider]

I put 18,000 miles on the RT last year, and 15,000 on the ST.

They do the same thing just in vastly different ways. I love riding them. If money is an object, the Honda is the choice, both in intial cost and long term. The frequent 6k service intervals are simple, but annoying. So far it has been dead on reliable.

The RT is equipped with all the stuff a touring bike should have. Heated seats, grips, cruise control, data displays, geezus it even has self canceling turn signals (that is really hard to come by for some reason). For me, it has better wind mgt, and with its upright seating, is more comfortable on a 1000 mile ride, although the Honda is too.

My RT has ESA and handles really, really well. It is noticeably superior to the Honda in that dept.

But the Honda has the best motor and transmission. It is nothing short of remarkable in terms of reliability and function. It has no major weaknesses, and has the best warranty in the business.

You just can't go wrong with either choice.

[motoman]

Wife like Canbus electrical system, I think it's a pain to deal with especially for accessories. Maggie also like the sound of the RT (no whine). More choice on colors.

PM me if you want to talk with my wife.

Well, there you have it.

It's a Chick bike. :p:

[Kempo-STer]

ST smoked it top end.

Yes this is important because we all know how much racing we do at 140mph +????

My best friend has an RT and its VERY tightly put together. Yes from an engine perspective the ST is much smoother and more powerful due to having a couple more cylinders. However the RT is over 100lbs lighter so the performance extra as far as acceleration from a stand still is the ST not that much quicker.

Bamarider has a great comparison on his website as he owns both. You can't go wrong with either.
If the things that the ST does better are more important (including cost) than go witht he ST. If the price of the RT does not bother you and you put priorities on what the RT does better than get the RT.

Most impoartantly ride them both and you may throw your reasoning out the window right then and there if one of them "speaks" to you.

[Chris Parker]

What are people's view of the BMW 1200RT in relationship to the ST1300?

Folks that have owned one?
Folks that compared the RT before getting an ST?

Plusses / Minuses ?

I have a friend or two that have owned the 1150RT and are just as smittened as ST1300 owners are with their rides. I'd just like to get an idea of what folks think of the two rides in comparison to each other....

Bobbydog

I just moved from a 04 ST1300 to a 06 R1200RT... here is my review so far:

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19185

BTW, both are great bikes, you can't go wrong with either.

[Torch]

I used to own an R1100Rt and thought it was a pretty good bike. I test rode the R1200RT right before the ST. Handled very well(felt lighter), brakes were very good, gauge package is better than ST1300. No heat also. The boxer felt like a boxer thru the whole rpm range and it was gutless below 5k rpm. The hp and torque numbers are similar for both bikes but the V4 is night day better than the boxer due to how smooth it delivers it. Windshield on the RT vibrated way to much at the full up position. I could not justify the extra 6k$ they want for the RT.

[STOnkin'aussie]

i reckon i would have loved owning the RT - in the 2 hour ride i had i found handling, air deflection, rider comfort, pillion comfort, dash, grips, definately brakes and bags were all better than the ST - ESA is also great. I did not try out the cruise control but reckon it would be beneficial.

weight differential appears to negate the slightly less power (altho' you can pick that it produces less power)

reason i decided on the ST?

it was the bike for me - dunno why - but Honda made it for me. It fits me well, my feet reach the ground easier (be careful if you are height challenged on the RT) and I love the power and gearbox

I also just felt confident i could do most of the service work on the bike and pick up parts at any butcher shop should they ever be required. I also want to ride across this great land downunder and there is a certain comfort having 2 extra cylinders and a radiator to keep it all cool and performing up to spec.

it was a bonus that it cost 5k less as well.

i dont believe you can make a wrong decision between them. We are fortunate indeed to live in a time when we have the FJR, RT and ST to choose between.

[Bones]

I really like how RTs are equipped from the factory. Long before I ever rode one I wanted one, based largely on how everything is laid out and put together on my friends' bikes. The gauges and switches are great (except for the multi-hand turn signals). Heated grips and a power port, all properly integrated. I have little use for cruise control but factory cruise is better than a throttle lock.

It's the motor that's the deal-breaker for me. The 1150RT I rode had a coarse, buzzy motor, pull-to-the-right torque steer, and the notchiest tranny I can remember. I had planned to buy one that day, rode it and changed my mind. I was looking at the ST1100 and GL1800 when one of my Beemer buddies tossed me a magazine with a story on a UK STX1300 Pan European. I decided to wait for the ST to come stateside and I'm glad I did.

The ST motor (11 or 13) is purpose-designed for a sport-touring application. The motor simply rocks for the riding I like to do. I added to my ST what Honda didn't provide from the factory (heated grips, a power port and a real horn, most importantly). The "heat issue" has never been an issue for me. I wish it were lighter.

If you like the boxer motor (and many do) and don't mind spending 1/3 more up front and more for service, the RT is hard to beat. If you like the smoothness and refinement of a V4, the ST is hard to beat and the substantial cost savings out the door and down the line are a bonus (more $$ to ride and for farkles).

For me, the first part of "motorcycle" is "motor."

[Chris Parker]

The gauges and switches are great (except for the multi-hand turn signals).

Bones,

Funny that you mention that... my first bike, a Honda Pacific Coast, was typical Japanese, turn signals on left bar controls... move to my first BMW and get acclimated to the German turn signals... like them even more, because to me it is intuitive to turn left, press left, turn right, press right with each thumb, cancel with right thumb... feels natural... years later, get my ST1300 and was reaching for the Beemers setup the first week or so, oh, I remember this? Right, it is coming back to me, but still wanted to hit that right turn signal on the right bar, but nothing is there... missed a few turn signals and I hate that... one of my pet peeves. Now back to the new BMW, ah, that natural feel once again... funny how that works... it is what you are most familiar with that feels the most comfortable.

Chris

[Bones]

Chris, the turn signal "debate" is good fodder for around a campfire. :cf1:

The argument I make when tossing it around with my pal Kevin (on his second R1150R) is that the BMW turn signal design runs counter to the German concept of efficiency. Specifically, why use three switches (left, right and cancel) for use with two hands when a single switch for a single hand can manage the function?

Of course there's no reasoning with a motorcyclist drinking beer around a campfire, so when Kevin has said his peace I'm ready with a follow up. BMW and Honda both make great cars, too, but both use a turn signal that is analogous to the Honda motorcycle turn signal design: one switch for one hand. They're even self-canceling (my PC800 had those, too).

So Kevin comes back with this: if two cylinders can power a motorcycle effectively, why bother with four? This brings out the Moto Guzzi fringe and the K-bikers and Connie types to chime in on their own sides of the debate. ("Oh, yeah? Well why do you need liquid cooling when Mother Nature is providing plenty of air for the job?" etc.)

Yup, nothing like good wholesome conversation.

[BamaRider]

Because I switch back and forth, I'm constantly beeping the horn on the Honda when I want to turn left.

I like the RTs layout, but I think pressing the switch again to cancel would be more intuative.

[Chris Parker]

Sounds like you and I would have lively conversations around the campfire as well : )


They're even self-canceling (my PC800 had those, too).

Just a note on the new RT... it has self-cancelling turn signals now, unlike my two previous RTs... BMW must have gotten the message and Kisan Signal Minders are a thing of the past on the new Hexheads...

Chris

[Judge]

I will be stwitching to an RT after a recent test ride for the following reasons.

My observations are that the RT has more comfortable ergos, and the available comfort convenience equipment is also a big selling point.

I also found the RT to be more stable at highway speeds particularly in the wake of semi's.

I give the suspension on the RT much higher marks, and the ESA is a really nice feature.

The RT engine is commendably smooth and torquey, and has a feel that I really enjoy.

The RT's handling is much nicer due to it's reduced weight, and it has gobs of ground clearance. It's downright flickable in the tight stuff, which I like.


Luggage design is nicely thought out and goes on and off easier than the ST.

Quality of materials and fit and finish are noticeably better on the RT also.

I would give the RT a small edge in wind protection, and as mentioned the roomy ergos are a huge benefit after long days in the saddle.


This isn't to cast any dispersions on my ST. It's a wonderful bike. However, I find the RT to be the nicer machine, and the bike I would prefer to be on.

Some may argue price; however, if you were to invest in aftermarket items like cruise control and soforth on an ST, the price gap narrows.


Good luck.

[Judge]

I really like how RTs are equipped from the factory. Long before I ever rode one I wanted one, based largely on how everything is laid out and put together on my friends' bikes. The gauges and switches are great (except for the multi-hand turn signals). Heated grips and a power port, all properly integrated. I have little use for cruise control but factory cruise is better than a throttle lock.

It's the motor that's the deal-breaker for me. The 1150RT I rode had a coarse, buzzy motor, pull-to-the-right torque steer, and the notchiest tranny I can remember. I had planned to buy one that day, rode it and changed my mind. I was looking at the ST1100 and GL1800 when one of my Beemer buddies tossed me a magazine with a story on a UK STX1300 Pan European. I decided to wait for the ST to come stateside and I'm glad I did.

The ST motor (11 or 13) is purpose-designed for a sport-touring application. The motor simply rocks for the riding I like to do. I added to my ST what Honda didn't provide from the factory (heated grips, a power port and a real horn, most importantly). The "heat issue" has never been an issue for me. I wish it were lighter.

If you like the boxer motor (and many do) and don't mind spending 1/3 more up front and more for service, the RT is hard to beat. If you like the smoothness and refinement of a V4, the ST is hard to beat and the substantial cost savings out the door and down the line are a bonus (more $$ to ride and for farkles).

For me, the first part of "motorcycle" is "motor."


Interesting observations, and I tend to agree. I rode two GS 1150's and one was very rough. Then I rode another and it was significantly smoother. Valve adjustment is key to the boxer I came to find out.

The 1200 boxer is a HUGE step forward from the old boxer. Nice motor, and after you get it off idle it's smooth as glass until about 90-95 when you feel some vibes creep in a little.

[jbim]

I had an 05 ST1300 A. I sold it to acquire a BMW R1200GS. I had a number of issues with the ST:

- The weight
- The heat
- The bad wind management of the screen
- Weaving of the front wheel in certain wind condition and wind
- Not great with the top box

I test rode the RT twice but finally settled for the GS because it is lighter and more versatile. I am very happy with the bike and do not miss the ST at all. The wind is an issue on the GS just like the ST. However, all my other issues are addressed and more. I suspect one day I will go for all the niceties of the RT (screen, cruise, ESA, etc). However, for now, the GS is perfect for me. I would go for an ST in a NY minute if the issues I had with the bike were addressed because there are three things I love about Honda: the smooth engine, the reliability and the dealer network.

[BamaRider]

And the 3 issues you love most about the Honda, a BMW will never come close to attaining.

Now I dunno, but you dimissed the ST because of top box, and wind mgt issues, for a bike that doesn't even have those things?

What bike with a fairing doesn't wiggle in certain wind conditions?

Perhaps its just me, but a bike with a fast smooth motor, reliability that is the envy of all other manufacturers, and the greatest dealer network on the continient, wipes out ALL 5 of those minor negatives you listed. Or am I missing something?

[jbim]

Perhaps its just me, but a bike with a fast smooth motor, reliability that is the envy of all other manufacturers, and the greatest dealer network on the continient, wipes out ALL 5 of those minor negatives you listed.

You are correct that the heat and poor wind management is prolly something you can get used to for the sake of owning a great bike. However, the weaving and the issue with the top box became safety issues for me. Maybe it's because the ST was my first bike after a 25-year gap. I couldn't get used to the weaving of the front wheel. When I added the top box it was even worst, the bike felt unstable.

Then one day, I tried the RT. That was a big mistake because I felt the bike way more stable and better handling. It confirmed that it wasn't just me, but also the bike. At that point, the better handling and added feeling of security trumped everything else.

I finally opted for the GS because it is even lighter and more versatile. It goes to show that I wanted a lighter bike. I guess it shows that, at the end of the day, the wind was not so much an issue. However, it bothered me that I couldn't use one of the neat feature of the bike to its fullest.

Or am I missing something?

I guess I should have emphasized that the weaving of the front wheel and the unstable behavior with the top box were very important to me. They were safety concerns. It trumped everything else. Then when I found a bike that addressed those issues for me, I went for it.

[Computer Nerd]

The RT is likely going to be my next bike. I was actually trying to buy one, the the excessive price pushed me away. The base price of the RT was more than the full out the door price of my ST even with extended warranty.

That being said, I would love to see BMW Motorrad bring the price of their bikes down several thousand, (which would be more inline with european pricing) and really pitch their bikes to frustrated commuters wishing to get out of a car.

They tend to really involve themselves with their owners, I can see them associating with MSC academies, and helping people take that step if they need help getting on a bike.

With increasing traffic, and fuel costs, I can really see bikes coming into their own in this country.

[John Anthony]

... They tend to really involve themselves with their owners, I can see them associating with MSC academies, and helping people take that step if they need help getting on a bike. ...
Good point. One of the things I really liked about the BMW dealership (Ride West in northeast Seattle) that Maggie worked with was the quality of the sales staff and their commitment to her as a potential owner. They took care of every last little detail of the transaction. Whenever we come into the dealership, if her salesman is there, he'll come up and talk with us and ask about her RT as well as any of our recent rides. We did a TON of business with Cycle Barn (mostly due to Maggie's commitment to her buy-a-new-bike-at-least-every-year-that-ends-in-a-number program) and can't even get a demo ride on a Wing from them.

John

[Computer Nerd]

I buy all of my gear and clothing at BMW dealers, and they have always treated my really well. Everyone is so helpful, and no pressure.

The thing that is irking me about the BMW dealer now is people seem to be fixating on the stability "issue" with the ST.

Jeez, Harleys go for years with major machanical dificiencies, and stupid design quirks, and it's just "part of the experience."

The ST gets a couple of reports about stability concerns, and suddenly it's to be avoided at all costs.