oil & warranty

[eddiemack]

Hey... not to start a flame about oil(s), but I'm considering switching over to synthetic oil(s) and was wondering how it effects the warranty... especially if I don't use a Honda oil and filter. I read http://www.thefairchilds.org/bikes/st-oilchange.html which mentions using Shell Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic oil / Purolator filter and Mobil 1 75w-90 synth gear oil.
My main concern is that if anything ever goes wrong with the bike Honda will place the blame on the non-OEM components and I'll be left with the repair bill. Is the switch over to synthetic worth it? I've never used it before.... I'm hoping for a longer oil change interval as I have too many machines these days....

[ssls6]

Many dealers bring up the non-OEM oil & oil filter issue as a cop-out of doing warranty work. This tactic, independent of its legality, it is still a pain in the butt. If you have a dealer like this, I would probably use the Honda filter but also use the oil of my choice. If they ever ask about the oil I would say "I'm using a oil as recommended in my manual" and leave it at that.

One thing to keep in mind, they cannot void your entire warranty for using aftermarket parts. If you have a oil related failure (spun bearing) and they find a 5w-20 oil in the bike, you're SOL. If you go in for a coolant leak and they find a 5w-20 oil in the bike, they still have to fix the coolant leak. I've never seen a dealer go to the trouble of analyzing your oil etc.

Most dealers don't make profit on warranty work. The shop time given for most repairs is brutally short. The reason they do warranty work has to do with their franchise contract. Never incriminate yourself by saying you're using something non-standard.

[Killtimer]

As long as the oil used meets or exceeds the min. spec as printed in your owners manual there should be no problem. That being said, I'm a firm believer in using OEM filters. I use Mobil1 with OEM filters changed at the recommended 8K interval. I've gone to 10K on long trips and I still sleep at night. :) Check out OIL (http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html) for more than you ever wanted to know about oil.

Steve

[AgSTreak]

Not ot start any trouble but, Steve, have you had any problems with clutch slippage with the Mobile 1. I've stayed away from it because of that possibility (probability??).- john

[Horst]

... but they changed their formulation 1-2 years ago and apparently it's just like all the others now. As a matter of interest, why would you not use Honda oil & filter during the warranty period. The filter is very good, and HP4 is also very good oil ... the stuff eddie mentions is also good.

Don't put cheap oil in to these top-line thouroughbreds, ok ? :)

[Killtimer]

Not ot start any trouble but, Steve, have you had any problems with clutch slippage with the Mobile 1. I've stayed away from it because of that possibility (probability??).- john

John

Over 100k miles on three ST's, everything from full loaded two up mountain rides (as well as the Union district in San. Fran., but that's another story)
:eek:, to track days (and race school)...... no problems.

Steve

[eddiemack]

Thanks for the replies... I'm not so much concerned about saving money on oil & filters as I am about voiding warranty and changing oil every 3000 miles. I'll stick with OEM filters as I can get them online for about $6 a piece,.. and I'll ping the dealer on using a OEM synthetic. I know Honda makes it for the goldwings... one with molly & one without... maybe one will work with the ST.. or not. If it's an issue I'll stick with normal OEM oil. I never even considered using synthetic oil until I stumbled across that article. The appeal is changing oil less often and riding more as a result.

[Fireball18]

Eddiemack--The manufacturer cannot void you warranty just because you don't use their oil or filters, UNLESS they provide those items to you for free! I doubt seriously that they test every sample of oil that they drain just to find out if it meets manufacturer's specs or not. Use whatever oil you want, as long as it conforms to Honda's specs for oil, or exceeds it.

As far as what brand to use, you can read a great article on oil and filters on the California Scientific website ( www.calsci.com ). You may be surprised to find out that the OEM Honda oil is not all that terrific, nor are their filters. There are plenty of other brands out there that are better than OEM. The PureOne filter available at Fred Meyer Stores is a top brand, as are Amsoil, Golden Spectro, Silkolene, Mobil-1 motorcycle-specific oil, and Shell Rotella-T synthetic oils great oils to use. I think that as long as you change oil and filter regularly, you're not going to harm your bike's engine. Good luck. BTW, my '03 and my wife's '04 ST's run great on semi-synthetic Castrol Actevo oil.

[dannyk]

The Mobil 1 synthetic 15W50 in the red cap is fine as well as others, as long as it meets or exceeds the manufactures recommendations, stay away from any oil that says energy conserving as they have friction modifiers in them and will cause clutch slippage. I personally use motorcycle specific AMSoil and motorcycle specific Mobil 1 mx4t in my bikes, and ATV, 0W40, 10W40, 15W50, or 20W50, depending on the time of year, and model of bike or atv. I have also been using synthetic in every vehicle that I have owned from 1978 to the present. My garden tractor (air cooled) my dual sport 650 Honda (air cooled), My Gold wing (liquid cooled) my ATV (liquid cooled) my car and my old pickup with 110,000 miles on it. My 2005 ST will also get synthetic on the first oil change. As was stated above in one of the other posts hp4 honda oil didn't fare well when tested by MCN magazine as compared to some other oils, and the synthetic's were the best of all. Also if I remember right the honda synthetic is a blend of conventional and synthetic oil, its not a pure synthetic, but is priced as such.

[coldoughboy]

Thanks for the replies... I'm not so much concerned about saving money on oil & filters as I am about voiding warranty and changing oil every 3000 miles. I'll stick with OEM filters as I can get them online for about $6 a piece,.. and I'll ping the dealer on using a OEM synthetic. I know Honda makes it for the goldwings... one with molly & one without... maybe one will work with the ST.. or not. If it's an issue I'll stick with normal OEM oil. I never even considered using synthetic oil until I stumbled across that article. The appeal is changing oil less often and riding more as a result.

Where do you find your filters for $6.00?

[eddiemack]

ummm... don't flame me but I get oil filters and oil from HDL (hondadirectlineusa.com).
I get stuff delivered at prices lower than the local dealership. I just bought 4 OEM filters and a case of HP-4. I'll be using the synthetic blend from Honda out of warranty concerns. Honda cannot give me any crap if I have problems as I'm using their products. Or so I think....

[basco]

Eddiemack--The manufacturer cannot void you warranty just because you don't use their oil or filters, UNLESS they provide those items to you for free! I doubt seriously that they test every sample of oil that they drain just to find out if it meets manufacturer's specs or not. Use whatever oil you want, as long as it conforms to Honda's specs for oil, or exceeds it.

As far as what brand to use, you can read a great article on oil and filters on the California Scientific website ( www.calsci.com ). You may be surprised to find out that the OEM Honda oil is not all that terrific, nor are their filters. There are plenty of other brands out there that are better than OEM. The PureOne filter available at Fred Meyer Stores is a top brand, as are Amsoil, Golden Spectro, Silkolene, Mobil-1 motorcycle-specific oil, and Shell Rotella-T synthetic oils great oils to use. I think that as long as you change oil and filter regularly, you're not going to harm your bike's engine. Good luck. BTW, my '03 and my wife's '04 ST's run great on semi-synthetic Castrol Actevo oil.

I still don't agree with him using synthetic in the first 2k miles. Take a look and read the website he quotes and down at the bottom reads don't use it until 2k miles.

Where does it say that if Honda doen't provide the oil/filter that the use of any oil that meets or exceeds the spec oil voids warranty? I think anything other than Dyno 10w-40 without friction mods will void warranty. Everything else is fair game. I use Honda's filter and Rotella-T and take a chance. At least with the filter bought at a dealer I have proof that I use their spec stuff and hard to prove otherwise.

Edit: and its here calsi site for motorcycles (http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/index.html) and the site he quotes is motoman (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm) , not www.calsi.com

[georgeorge]

You're wrong if you think that the other brands don't have it in thier application charts. Here's a link to fram's application chart. The ST1300 is on page 3. Not that I recommend Fram, but I'm just puttin this in here.

http://cpgcatalog.honeywell.com/cpg/catalog/fram/otherapps/Motorcycle.pdf

Brian

[georgeorge]

here's purolator's application chart and they DON'T list the st1300 but do list the st1100.

http://www.pureoil.com/documents/Motorcycle_ATV/Motorcycle_ATV.pdf

Brian

[Fireball18]

Oops, made typo. The one I typed in is for his other website. Sorry 'bout that.

[georgeorge]

Here's AMSOil's application chart and the ST1300 IS on page 4.
I'll stop now.

https://www.amsoil.com/products/motorcycle_filters2.pdf

Brian

[georgeorge]

right, that's what I found also. But AMSOil and Fram both do list it, so choice is yours. Personally from what I have read on Mark Lawrences site I wouldn't recommend the Fram, but AMSOil filters are supposed to be among the best.

Brian

[georgeorge]

For what it's worth here's a site that actually cut apart several brands of motorcycle oil filters and comments on thier findings.

http://www.twocreeks.net/toby/oil_filters/

Brian

[eddiemack]

Now that's cool.. I never would've thought to slice open a filter.
Anyway,... I plan to use OEM on everything. I bought extended
warranty and am covered til 2011. If I'm ever asked to produce
paperwork to prove what chemicals I use it will all say Honda and
that should end any question or discussion whether or not repair
should be covered. Using HP4 oil changes should be every 5K miles,
making that chore only twice a year. So I can ride more and wrench
less. Until I order a ton of crap for the bike off season. Then I wrench
installing stuff.... Anyway... thanks for all the posts regarding oil. I've
learned a lot and considered many brands. OEM seems the safest route
regarding warranty issues, and decent results performance wise.

[georgeorge]

they are saying that honda filters, AMSOil filters and K&N filters are good and that Fram filters are bad. Are you gonna argue that point? I'm no engineer, so I can't. All I can do is read it and trust what I'm reading. That site was not something I Downloaded in 1999 and shown to you today. It was a link and the site is still there now.

Brian

[georgeorge]

I have an 03...find your own filter.

Brian

[John Anthony]

I'm headed to the local dealership this weekend to get warranty work done as well as oil/filter and rear end lube change. Shop manager's recommendations: Mobil 1 and Honda filter.