Starcom Issue - Radar Override

[NewsMag]

Hi all,

I bought an original Starcom (not advance) from Cal Sport Touring in 2004. Mated it to an Escort Passport 8500 X50 and XM Roady radio. All worked great during limited riding in 2005 (overseas travel took priority) and for half of 2006. In St. Louis last year in the summer swelter the radar detector was flaking out - getting static in the headset instead of a clear signal, and other hassles. It had been repaired by Escort already (from a drop onto concrete), so I bought a second one (which I wanted anyway - for the cages). I found that the unit would be fine in the morning, then go static-y on the ride, and then mute the radio with no sound, then not interrupt at all - as the day progressed. Played and played with wire routing, unit location, etc. Problem got worse and worse. Both radar detectors worked fine in the cages using the X50's built in speaker.

I finally decided the issue was connector stress on the input to the Starcom, and not wanting to get a ticket during a summer of riding, I bought a Starcom Advance, also from CST. Since the Advance is much smaller I was able to mount it in the same place (under the seat above the engine by the big wiring harness bundle) with room to spare. The Advance worked flawlessly and had more adjustments, so I was happy.

Until last weekend. Was headed to ABQ on some backroads and the same symptoms started. I suspected connector stress again, and moved the unit around and padded with shop towels, etc. No joy. What I did notice was that the unit works when cool, then begins to fail as the bike and the day warm up. I was able to replicate the heat-related behavior for four days in a row, with the failure occurring earlier each day even though the weather was a bit cooler. And I recall the same pattern from the original unit, though at 104 degrees and 100% humidity in St. Louis, I was unable to recognize the pattern at the time!

So here's my theory. I think the Starcom has a heat-sensitive component that controls the radar (and phone) override that works fine until it gets real hot, then it becomes more progressively heat sensitive. In retrospect it was probably unwise to mount it under the rider seat, and should have been put in the tail pack instead of my emergency supplies. But too late now.

Any thoughts on my theory, or credible alternates?

Now I have 2 Escort X50s (which are useful in cages), and 2 Starcom units (purchased at full price). I have intercom and radio (though the noise detecting volume level is also failing as heat increases), and no way to hear the radar detector after the first hour or two in the AM.

I ended up buying an earphone (the cheap acoustic speaker kind - Passports don't use piezo buzzers) at Radio Shack and used it coming home. Not real satisfactory and rubbed my ear raw. Had to keep the XM off most of the time to hear the detector, especially at speed. I guess that was worthwhile, as the detector-kluge system saved me at least three for-sure tickets!

I'm quite frustrated, having bought 2 different models and having both fail the same way. I need a fix and a backup plan fast, as I leave for WeSTOC in 2.5 weeks (really). Thinking of just dumping Starcom and going with Autocomm.

Wisdom of the ST-Owners is solicited!

[redst05]

Have you contacted Starcom? I have had good success with there service, though limited?

[Highrider]

The area you descibe where you mount your Starcom is subject to a lot of engine heat. Try parking your Starcom back under where the tool kit is located. There is a rubber strap already on the bike to hold it down. I have had mine there and been riding all day in 110+ temperatures and have had no temp related problems.
I also opted for a Marc Parnes optical unit for my Pasport 8500, as I have too many audio connections as it is.
This may be an option to consider.

[NewsMag]

The area you descibe where you mount your Starcom is subject to a lot of engine heat. Try parking your Starcom back under where the tool kit is located. There is a rubber strap already on the bike to hold it down. I have had mine there and been riding all day in 110+ temperatures and have had no temp related problems.
I also opted for a Marc Parnes optical unit for my Pasport 8500, as I have too many audio connections as it is.
This may be an option to consider.

Thanks guys!

RedST - I have not contacted Starcom yet. Want to confirm my suspicions first, and I probably don't have time to deal with England for parts with only 2 weeks before takeoff...

Highrider - you are right about the heat, and I should have figured that out last year. Funny you should mention the HARD system. I ran into a Cagiva rider with one yesterday. He mentioned the drawback of running the batteries down if you forget to turn it off. His tankbag was full of those big button batteries, too! I do prefer the audio alert, as you can tell which type of radar it is and how strong without diverting your eyes from the road. With the HARD system, you'd have to look at the detector for that information.

[Highrider]

I also have the HARD system, but that is not what I am referring to -
http://www.marcparnes.com/Visual_Alert.htm

The Marc Parnes Visual Alert works pretty good without having to worry about battery power or multiple components. I have my detector mounted top / center on the dash along with the MP display. I'd say it is 85-90% effective alert as compared to the HARD system.

The HARD system is the most efficient visual alert system, if you can get past not leaving the batteries in the helmet on, and how bright it can be at night.
IMHO - it is just as effective as an audio alert - you are alerted no matter where your attention is directed or where you are looking.

[Killtimer]

Steve

Using the pin-out diagram (that you provided originally :) ) I was able to cobble together a cable that plugs into my V1 and Starcom headset. IIRC it's a computer keyboard extension cable that I just cut the end off of and spliced in a plug. Might be worth a shot. I've still got a pdf file of the diagram somewhere..... ping me if you need it.

[dmulk]

Steve,

Look for me at WeSTOC... I'll probably be with the rest of the Starcom guys trying to figure out if converting to Autocom is worth it.. hehe :)

Anyway, I think you have enough time to get a replacement board from Starcom support in the UK.

I just found out that my board had a defective PTT component. I emailed Tony and he shipped out a replacement board same day. Said I should have it in about 3 days. Didn't even ask for a Credit Card or anything to secure the replacement. Just my address. I then sent back the circuit board.

If heat is really the issue (and not increasing noise as the bike warms up - WHICH I HAVE recently CONFIRMED), then you could probably mount a small PC fan on the starcom box with a heat sink.... just a thought...

I feel your pain... :/

<D>

[wjbertrand]

My Starcom1 Advance has been tucked under the passenger seat for almost 2 years now and I've had no issues with it at all. I was concerned about the heat and engine noise and wanted to place it as far away as possible. Maybe the heat is the problem, it stays relatively cool back under the passenger seat.

http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/3145/2839910550039006121S500x500Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2839910550039006121OESUrO)

[NewsMag]

I will relocate the unit this weekend, but I fear it is already toasted. I also took your collective advice to contact Tony at Starcom, starling@tecstar.co.uk. After an email bounce I sent it to sales@tecstar.co.uk. It bounced as well. Both messages came back with this:

SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:<starling@tecstar.co.uk>:host mail.tecstar.co.uk [194.154.33.1]: 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1)

Which makes me think I am on their sh*t list or something?

Anyway I sent the same text via their webpage contact form, so I imagine I will get something back on Monday.

Stay Tuned!

[dmulk]

Steve,

Try this one:

tecstar@btconnect.com


<D>

[NewsMag]

Steve W

Thanks for the offer - I do still have the pinout. I suppose I could cobble a direct connect to the headset. This might be a good fallback solution, but has the disadvantage of bypassing the expensive Starcom system and intercom. I'd really like it all to just function properly. Got 2 weeks left to make that happen!

[NewsMag]

Thanks Dmulk. The reply did come this morning from that address. It was not entirely helpful.

Over the weekend I relocated the Starcom Advance to the tail section where there is plenty of room and no connector stress. Based on the Tecstar email, that may not have been the culprit.

Here's what they told me so far...

I have not seen this symptom before on any units even though they are used in the hottest and coldest areas. We also test the units at extremes cold and Hot with No degradation. I also cannot think of any part of the circuit that could effect the radar input only.

This is good to know, I suppose.

Have you tried running the radar input to the Telephone and AUX sockets?

My response: "I am using the phone socket. The AUX socket looks different - plastic vs metal. Is it also a 3.5mm stereo connection?"
This question was not answered, nor is it addressed in the owner's manual.

Have you tried replacing the Radar isolated cable ?

My answer, NO. I followed up with a question: "I have a 2004 vintage Starcom 1 mono to stereo cable, and an Escort-provided ground loop isolator cable. Is there a single Starcom cable now that performs both functions? It occurs to me, after reflection, that the Escort isolator circuit could be the one that's failing in the heat."

Their response, which did not answer the question for me: The Starcom cable would be CAB 35. I didn't realise you were using a different cable and this was common to both Starcoms.

I don't know if I'm using a different cable, but I think I am. I had one of the earliest Starcom1 units and also one of the first X50s. The radar detector did not come through using the very expensive Starcom1 cable that was just a mono to stereo connector. I called Escort, and their tech told me I needed a ground loop isolator, and they sent me one for free. Now they sell them. Anyway, the Escort cable with an isolator box is being used in series with the Starcom cable, which does not at all look like the CAB 35 cable on thier website - that one has a bulge in it which I presume is a ground loop isolater. Mine is just thin cable end to end. It seems to me that the correct answer to my question would have been "Yes, we have isolator cables available now, and you want the CAB 36." (not 35).

Since the messages were not signed, I presume I am not communicating with Tony at Starcom, who has been so helpful in the past. I am going to call Jeff at SportbikeEffects.com, as he is a dealer and also uses the Starcom system himself. Not sure if they are open on Mondays, so stay tuned!

[wjbertrand]

If it helps at all Steve, my set up uses the escort isolated mono cable as well. I have the male end of that cable plugged into the 8500, and the female end (with the isolator box and integral 3.5mm jack) located under the seat near the StarCom unit. Since the AUX input on the StarCom is stereo, I used a mono-to-stereo adapter plugged into the female end of the escort cable and then a very short male-to-male stereo cable between the adapter and the AUX input on the Starcom. This has worked perfectly for me and I can hear the mono radar alerts in both helmet speakers.

[NewsMag]

If it helps at all Steve, my set up uses the escort isolated mono cable as well. I have the male end of that cable plugged into the 8500, and the female end (with the isolator box and integral 3.5mm jack) located under the seat near the StarCom unit. Since the AUX input on the StarCom is stereo, I used a mono-to-stereo adapter plugged into the female end of the escort cable and then a very short male-to-male stereo cable between the adapter and the AUX input on the Starcom. This has worked perfectly for me and I can hear the mono radar alerts in both helmet speakers.

Looks like a new Escort cable plus various Radio Shack components will get me to the same place cheaper than the CAB-36 cable. Of course the CAB-36, if it isolates properly from ground loops, is a more elegant solution. Looks like Jeff at Bike Effects is closed today, so we'll figure it out tomorrow!

[NewsMag]

For those watching from home...

Talked to Jeff at Bike Effects, and he confirmed that a CAB-36 is the correct cable and that it does have a ground loop isolator built in. He also suggested some alternatives to try. I ended up ordering the CAB-36, a remote volume control, and some Ariete 90degree valve stems, all with a 10% STOC discount! Such a deal!

Do you guys plug your Radar Detectors into the "Phone" jack or the AUX jack of the Starcom Advance? I had both phone and Radar going through a Y connector into the phone jack, residual from my Starcom 1 setup. Never messed with the AUX jack on the Advance.

[wjbertrand]

For those watching from home...

Talked to Jeff at Bike Effects, and he confirmed that a CAB-36 is the correct cable and that it does have a ground loop isolator built in. He also suggested some alternatives to try. I ended up ordering the CAB-36, a remote volume control, and some Ariete 90degree valve stems, all with a 10% STOC discount! Such a deal!

Do you guys plug your Radar Detectors into the "Phone" jack or the AUX jack of the Starcom Advance? I had both phone and Radar going through a Y connector into the phone jack, residual from my Starcom 1 setup. Never messed with the AUX jack on the Advance.

I use the AUX jack for radar since it overides the audio stuff and makes sure that I don't miss an alert. I've noticed that the radar signal coming in on the AUX jack doesn't completely override the FRS radio however, as I can still hear it. Not sure about with the phone as I've only just gotten that hooked up via my zumo. Maybe the Y-connector was causing some issues?

[NewsMag]

Weekend update: I re-routed the new cable and tightened everything up cosmetically. While I was at it I added a remote volume control right by the clutch reservoir. Got the phone in the phone jack, the RD in the aux jack, and it all works perfectly. Of course it all worked perfectly before until 2 days into a trip with high temperatures. So we'll see on the way to WeSTOC. I have hope that the kluged-up ground loop isolator was the problem. And I have 2 backup plans should this fail again!

Thanks for reading along...

[dmulk]

I use the AUX jack for radar since it overides the audio stuff and makes sure that I don't miss an alert. I've noticed that the radar signal coming in on the AUX jack doesn't completely override the FRS radio however, as I can still hear it. Not sure about with the phone as I've only just gotten that hooked up via my zumo. Maybe the Y-connector was causing some issues?


WJB...curious: Have you actually mad any calls using your phone through the Zumo? Can the other person hear you clearly?

I can't get my phone to "hear me" (IE: voice dial doesn't work at all...but manual dial works)....subsequently, the other end of the call can't hear me either.

I have my MIC sensitivity turned all the way down... I am thinking this is the problem....?

What settings do you have for VOX and MIC sensitivity? Just curious...

CHeers!

<D>

[wjbertrand]

WJB...curious: Have you actually mad any calls using your phone through the Zumo? Can the other person hear you clearly?

I can't get my phone to "hear me" (IE: voice dial doesn't work at all...but manual dial works)....subsequently, the other end of the call can't hear me either.

I have my MIC sensitivity turned all the way down... I am thinking this is the problem....?

What settings do you have for VOX and MIC sensitivity? Just curious...

CHeers!

<D>

Sounds like you went the wrong way with the mic adjustment. I have the mic sensitivity turned all the way up and the VOX all the way down. My callers were also saying that I sounded kinda faint and a little garbled. I haven't had a good test since turning the mic all the way up but my wife said it helped. I think part of my problem was that the microphone inside the foam dome stuck to the chin bar of my helmet had come loose and I think was lying sideways in there. It probably wasn't ideally placed or oriented. It's supposed to be sitting on top of a little rubber "pedestal" thing inside there but in my case the glue had released it. I think I have that fixed now but have yet to test it.

I find the volume to my head sets isn't very loud from my phone, but I've heard that complaint about the Treo 650 from folks that just use the regular blue tooth ear pieces, so I think it's a phone issue. At least with the remote volume control, I can just turn it up if a call comes in.

One call I took before these latest optimizations, the caller assumed I was in car, so there must be some noise coming through.

[dmulk]

Hmmm... I have in ear speakers so volume on anything is not a problem....

I also have the open face mic kit and I am using it in my full face X-11.

I am wonderig if I just need to disable side tone all together....

<D>

[Diggers1300]

I had the exact same problem.

What you have are weathered audio connections. My audio out box for my V1 stays on the bike all the time and my connectors were the culprit. They'll get weathered and not make a good connection. The addition of heat only compounds the situation. Think about it. Super-conductivity requires extremely cold temperatures.

Clean ALL your electrical connections (audio and power) with DeoxIT Power Booster and then protect with DeoxITGold.

Read about it at http://store.caig.com.

I use this stuff on everything electrical. Works fantastic!

Also can get it at the Shack.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104746&cp