MN Bridge Collapse

[Mellow]

Just wanted to hope no one here was impacted by last nights bridge collapse.

Here's prayers out to those that were affected.

[STRuck]

I picked my wife up from JFK-New York late last night after flying in from Minneapolis. She had crossed the bridge that collapsed approx. 1 HR earlier. She called from the MSP airport to tell me how bad the traffic was.(but didn't even know about the accident yet). I didn't even hear about the bridge untill I was getting ready to go to the airport to pick her up.

Prayers for everyone affected.

-STRuck

[cmguerrero]

Hope all is well for everyone in that area that might be affected.
Disasters, natural or otherwise, are such bumbers...

[Austin city limits]

I have heard about it,,, but not seen anything yet... Prayers to all,,, terrible news...

Critter who won the Moonshine Lunch Run long distance award the first year riding like 630 miles 1 way lives up there,,, and crosses that bridge 2 times a day!!! I have yet to hear from him and I am waiting as patiently as I can hoping/praying he is ok...

[kakalika]

I rode across that bridge the day before it collapsed. I remember noting all the construction and heavy equipment on the bridge. I just zoomed across, it was at around 11:00am, way before the rush hour.

[bygdawg]

Prayers out to the families with missing or dead family members. It's a shame that something like this happens. You'd have thought that they would've repaired the bridge before letting it get this far gone. I guess that's just the local gov't trying to save every penny they could.

[ki-speed]

I rode over that bridge last week on my Midwest trip.

You just never know. Timing is everything.

Prayers go out!!!!!!!

[STPaulK]

Prayers out to the families with missing or dead family members. It's a shame that something like this happens. You'd have thought that they would've repaired the bridge before letting it get this far gone. I guess that's just the local gov't trying to save every penny they could.

Bingo! Minnesota is trying hard for the #1 national ranking for the worst roads. Latest stats have us at #13 now and shooting up faster than a rocket. :mad:

This collapse is really going to kick the rage in high gear. Imagine yourself as part of a decision making process which decides that 50% deficiency rating for a superstructure as "good enough" for one of the busiest bridges in the state. I couldn't live with myself and I hope that heads are going to roll, especially for those who believe it's perfectly acceptable to allow that sort of risk based system. (Yes, I'm pissed and probably not thinking very rationally right now.)

How's this for some irony, they had to cancel the ceremony to break ground on a new taxpayer-subsidized baseball stadium this evening. Guess the politicians thought maybe it wasn't a good time to do this....ya think? :(

[Mellow]

I think you have a reason to be mad.

[bygdawg]

Bingo! Minnesota is trying hard for the #1 national ranking for the worst roads. Latest stats have us at #13 now and shooting up faster than a rocket. :mad:

This collapse is really going to kick the rage in high gear. Imagine yourself as part of a decision making process which decides that 50% deficiency rating for a superstructure as "good enough" for one of the busiest bridges in the state. I couldn't live with myself and I hope that heads are going to roll, especially for those who believe it's perfectly acceptable to allow that sort of risk based system. (Yes, I'm pissed and probably not thinking very rationally right now.)

How's this for some irony, they had to cancel the ceremony to break ground on a new taxpayer-subsidized baseball stadium this evening. Guess the politicians thought maybe it wasn't a good time to do this....ya think? :(


Tragic that money went toward a new baseball field for players making millions while the bridge went unattended to until it was too late. I guess they felt like a new stadium that would bring in more tax money was worth more than the safety of their own citiziens. (Shaking head in disbelief).

[redst05]

Its sad that that something like this had to happen before people start seeing the oblivious.

Maybe someone will now see that the infrastructure needs attention. Maybe they will also see that the rural areas also need attention.

[RFMike]

One of my coworkers was five minutes ahead of it, I decided to take I-94 instead, or I would have been on it, or very close. I cross(ed) it several times a week.

The cause of the collapse is still unknown. Could have been steel fractures, could have been slide bearings failing, could have been improper design of resurfacing, could have been water turbulence eroding the foundations. We won't know for a while. I have my suspicions, but they are just that. Having said all that, Minnesota is not spending what it should on road repair. I 35 south of Minneapolis is one of the worst interstates in the country. It's a joke, and should be replaced. I could rant on, but its Friday, and time to unwind, after a week like this.

[STPaulK]

Having said all that, Minnesota is not spending what it should on road repair. I 35 south of Minneapolis is one of the worst interstates in the country. It's a joke, and should be replaced. I could rant on, but its Friday, and time to unwind, after a week like this.

Allow me to rant for you. We have a Governor who has been in the back pocket of the Taxpayer League. He constantly chants the No New Taxes line every chance he gets. (Never mind that "fees" have skyrocketed for everything and when he cut aid to cities, my own property tax jumped to double digits to cover the gap and he signed off on state funds for the new stadium infrastructure.) :mad:

The last three years he twice vetoed an increase in the gas tax to cover road and bridge repair. One of those years the tax made it through a Republican majority, his own party, and he still blocked it. Mind you, I am not a big fan of taxes. But the gas tax burden for the state of MN is below the national average and since Jessie Ventura cut the license taxes, there hasn't been any alternative funding to close the gap. The roads are deteriorating faster than they are maintained now. The state has given up on some of the worst roads (because they are beyond even resurfacing.) This is a state that once prided itself on decent roads which is vital to commerce (jobs!) :confused: From a motorycle angle, there are some roads that you can't ride because the pavement is chunked.

Today, our Governor said he is changing his stance and will now sign off on the first gas tax brought to his desk. How is that for arse covering!!!

[tommyboy]

Lets hope the first gas tax bill that crosses his desk is one that restricts those tax funds to bridge and road repair, and not subject to hijacking for something unrelated. (sort of like some our threads!)
California is more prone to earthquakes than to bad weather. They have been retrofitting many bridges in the State (mind you, the retrofits may give you 20 seconds to get off or out from under before it collapes instead of 5).
Oh- and "fees" are taxes - just not ones that have to be voted on by the public!

[STPaulK]

Lets hope the first gas tax bill that crosses his desk is one that restricts those tax funds to bridge and road repair, and not subject to hijacking for something unrelated.

There was a constitutional amendment passed last year which protects all funds earmarked for transportation so it can't be raided for something else. Wise people decided that when the money gets too tight, you have to protect critical interests.


Oh- and "fees" are taxes - just not ones that have to be voted on by the public!

You can be assured there has been no shortage of opponents pointing this out at the past election. :) He barely squeaked by with the win.

[EASt]

I cross that bridge twice a day to get to and from work - the ST and I were in Colorado when this happened though; I'm still at a loss, and feeling bad for the families affected.

That said, personally, I'd rather that the governor took the money out of the stadiums, stopped the light-rail project (or delayed it), and used that money for the bridges and road repair. Everyone has said that the money is there, it's just a question of how it's prioritized. I simply can't understand raising our taxes - just invest the money that's already there a little smarter. :nuts1:

[STPaulK]

That said, personally, I'd rather that the governor took the money out of the stadiums, stopped the light-rail project (or delayed it), and used that money for the bridges and road repair. Everyone has said that the money is there, it's just a question of how it's prioritized. I simply can't understand raising our taxes - just invest the money that's already there a little smarter. :nuts1:

I don't disagree with what you say about priorities. Unfortunately people didn't listen when the experts first raised the issue about decaying bridges over a decade ago and decided that a pro sports team who threatened to leave town is more important. The light rail is something that presumably will pay for itself but it still impacts the budget from the upfront cost.

I do disagree with your view of the taxes though. Were you here when Jessie forced MNDOT to lower vehicle taxes? There was no other avenue to fill the revenue shortfall so they lopped the transportation budget. Molaneau said yesterday that MNDOT is only funded 10% of what is really needed. I'm sure she stated that for drama but the truth is probably somewhere in between. When decisions over budget priorities comes down to stretching the life of the busiest bridge in the state, one the Engineers say was outdated in 1990, then we have a big problem.

[skidlid1300]

...The roads are deteriorating faster than they are maintained now. The state has given up on some of the worst roads (because they are beyond even resurfacing.) This is a state that once prided itself on decent roads which is vital to commerce (jobs!) :confused: From a motorycle angle, there are some roads that you can't ride because the pavement is chunked. Today, our Governor said he is changing his stance and will now sign off on the first gas tax brought to his desk. How is that for arse covering!!!

If this is what MN is going through, I hate to see what Illinois is doing... :eek: I hope this a wake up call to change what has been done, to evaluate bridges, and other transportation structures. C'mon, even civilizations 500 years ago have bridges that are still standing... Geezus... Imagine being on that bridge, and it giving way... My prayers go out those families who have to deal with this tragedy...

[Palebluedot]

How long do you think it will take Nancy Pelosi to invent a way to pin the blame for this on George Bush ??

[RibsST1300]

I lived in FL, same story, now I am in SC, same story...probably the same everywhere..
And While I am on a roll, what are we doing policing all these other countries..Spending Billions on putting our Army in other countries while we don't take care of business at home?? Fix my roads, Clean up crime, punish criminals, clean my environment, improve my quality of life before you spend my Tax money in some other country!

[Viggo]

Allow me to rant for you. We have a Governor who has been in the back pocket of the Taxpayer League. He constantly chants the No New Taxes line every chance he gets. (Never mind that "fees" have skyrocketed for everything and when he cut aid to cities, my own property tax jumped to double digits to cover the gap and he signed off on state funds for the new stadium infrastructure.) :mad:

The last three years he twice vetoed an increase in the gas tax to cover road and bridge repair. One of those years the tax made it through a Republican majority, his own party, and he still blocked it. Mind you, I am not a big fan of taxes. But the gas tax burden for the state of MN is below the national average and since Jessie Ventura cut the license taxes, there hasn't been any alternative funding to close the gap. The roads are deteriorating faster than they are maintained now. The state has given up on some of the worst roads (because they are beyond even resurfacing.) This is a state that once prided itself on decent roads which is vital to commerce (jobs!) :confused: From a motorycle angle, there are some roads that you can't ride because the pavement is chunked.

Today, our Governor said he is changing his stance and will now sign off on the first gas tax brought to his desk. How is that for arse covering!!!


I remember back in the day when it was totally obvious when you crossed the state line from MN to IA because the road went from good to bad (narrow, no shoulder, poor pavement). Just this weekend, I made that state to state transition 4 times and if they didn't have the "The people of Iowa welcome you" signs, I wouldn't know which state I was in. I don't mean to pick on Iowa (this time), their roads have improved tremendously over the last 40 years while MN has gone the other direction.

I truly hope this bridge collapse serves as a wake-up call to our Gov and the legislature. I seem to recall Pawlenty saying he was going to be the "transportation" governor in his first election campaign, but his "no new taxes" pledge made that (and a lot of other things) a joke.

[uptoblackwood]

I've owned a dive training/tour operation business since 1985. I've been watching the "divers in the water" situation since the bridge went down...and I can say this....if they don't get their act together, they are going to lose rescue divers. This is NOT a job for local police/fire dive teams. They are NOT properly trained or equipped for this kind of work. Finally today....just today, I hear that NAVY divers are on site. Ocean engineering companies or NAVY industrial divers should have been on site the very day this tragic event occured. I hope the command people get the very well meaning....(but ill equipped) local teams out of this very dangerous situation.

Forest

[Palebluedot]

I lived in FL, same story, now I am in SC, same story...probably the same everywhere..
And While I am on a roll, what are we doing policing all these other countries..Spending Billions on putting our Army in other countries while we don't take care of business at home?? Fix my roads, Clean up crime, punish criminals, clean my environment, improve my quality of life before you spend my Tax money in some other country!

I understand where you are coming from and I agree with what you are saying. Looking at it from another point of view, if we don't fight them over there then we will have to fight them over here. Given that, if they are free to go about their business over here of blowing up bridges (cafes, shopping centers, etc.) does it really matter if the bridges are old or new?

[uptoblackwood]

I understand where you are coming from and I agree with what you are saying. Looking at it from another point of view, if we don't fight them over there then we will have to fight them over here. Given that, if they are free to go about their business over here of blowing up bridges (cafes, shopping centers, etc.) does it really matter if the bridges are old or new?
We have to "fight them" over here anyway....give up on that line of thought. Europeans have been dealing with terrorist(s) for a long time...and they don't lose nearly the number of people we have lost...nor do they kill the number of people we have in the current situation. Not many of the folks you refer to as "them" will ever get to America. Most of the ones that do.....won't prevail. A few will in any case. Filling pot holes and moving our resource back to America is not the same as letting them "go about their business here of blowing up bridges".....that's a long stretch.
I'd say this...most of "our" defensive resource is now commited abroad...and it leaves us wide open for any and all kinds of problems.
Fix my streets, roads and bridges. It's a better use of public funds than war. Put the diplomatic crews to work doing their jobs.

Forest

[tommyboy]

You cannot stop a person who is willing to blow himself up to kill a few "unbelivers" and "belivers" who think differently than he does with words.

I have a thought on the baseball stadium - actually, I didn't know the Twinkies were getting a new stadium. We went through the same thing in L.A. with the Lakers/Clippers/Kings a few years back. It is actually the main reason (in my mind, anyway) that we don't have an NFL team. Out then mayor, Richard Riordan hamstrung Peter O'Malley (owner of the Dodgers and Dodger Stadium at the time) over building a football only stadium for the new to be announced NFL expansion team (which is now the Houston Texans). The mayor (rightfully) figured that an NFL stadium gets at most 12 games a year, while the Staples Center would have 120+ games per year with the 3 teams. that is 120 opportunities to sell parking, concessions, taxes and maybe visits to the local watering holes around the Center. compare that to an NFL venue and the economic benefits are clearly in favor of a baseball team staying because they have 81 home games with the same parking, concessions and taxes going back into the city (notice I said nothing of stadium rent?). A bridge is a necessary artery - and this in no way diminishes the tragedy, but the economic benefit to the area is much better to have the MLB team than to not. You would be much better off to let the Vikings leave town (they are clamoring for their own stadium, too) than the Twinkies.
PS, I don't want, or need a second pro team in L.A. (we already have the Trojans)

[STPaulK]

A bridge is a necessary artery - and this in no way diminishes the tragedy, but the economic benefit to the area is much better to have the MLB team than to not. You would be much better off to let the Vikings leave town (they are clamoring for their own stadium, too) than the Twinkies.
PS, I don't want, or need a second pro team in L.A. (we already have the Trojans)

Uh huh, if it's so economical then why won't the billionaire team owner buy his own damn stadium. Plus, they are already playing 80 home games in a stadium that is already paid for. If 3 million fans are already attending games in an existing stadium then how does it become any more economical with a new stadium that seats less? Oh, I forgot, they are going to jack ticket prices. It's pure class bullshirt and the owner only wants a new stadium because all his pals are extorting one out of their own cities. I won't go any further than this except to say one thing that will let you you know where I stand...IT'S NOT THE JOB OF GOV'T TO BE IN THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS. As Forest Gump would say, "That's all I got to say bout that." :)

I think this thread is probably heading down paths (war, terrorism, merits of sports stadiums, etc.) as a result of my ranting. Maybe it's time to let it die a quiet death.

[LDMike]

Uh huh, if it's so economical then why won't the billionaire team owner buy his own damn stadium.

Gee that sounds familiar.... Millionaire owner (now the "Commisioner" of baseball) Milwaukee a few years back... got the several counties around the city to ante up 0.005% added to the sales tax... and WE"RE STILL PAYING FOR IT. Selig is no longer the owner of the Brewers - he got out before the s*&t hits the fan.

Completely disgusting.

[Imrubicon]

First thing is my wishes go out to all who lost loved ones .
I hope what ever faith and hope you need will get you through these hard times



now for silly rant




If a Business did this then someon would be going to jail for what happened
Bridges are bad all over
money is tight in all states
Whyich pork barrel the money is spent on is what matters .
Where does MN rank in the nation for welfare given out .
When I lived there 4 years ago people would traval from a long ways to get MN money !
Also being from the midwest I dont understand how the state taxes the heck out of you and yet has less money needed for services ?
One of the resons I moved away

[BridgeMan]

It is tragic indeed, that such a large and important structure could collapse in an age where the National Bridge Inspection Standards mandated by the federal government (in 1970) were intended to prevent this type of thing from happening. The bottom line is that someone was not doing his (or their) job(s). Having performed more than 3000 bridge inspections since 1970, I know all too well how inspection recommendations tend to be ignored by management until something like this occurs. But I also know that steel retrofit contracts can be put together and implemented for just a small fraction of the cost of a new stadium--is anyone listening?? So now the knee-jerk reaction in most states will be to implement more intensive inspection programs and maybe even replace a bridge or two until such time that the tragedy and headlines are forgotten, when things can return to "normal" in readiness for the cycle to repeat itself.

[STPaulK]

They touched on the complexities of inspecting this particular bridge in the Minneapolis paper just this morning.

http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1347900.html

Sounds to me like we need a new attitude about bridge inspections. Either build the necessary catwalks under these bridges to make access to critical areas easier or close the whole thing down for a day to allow examiners to do their job properly.

[bygdawg]

I heard on the news this morning that some people are paying as much as $30to have people drive them across bridges now. Apparently, this stems out of fear after the collapse. However, does it really matter that someone else is driving you if the bridge collapses? Seems kind of odd to me.

[tommyboy]

The article sounded like the gov't is going to use the "pigeon sh*&t" defense.

[Palebluedot]

We have to "fight them" over here anyway....give up on that line of thought. Europeans have been dealing with terrorist(s) for a long time...and they don't lose nearly the number of people we have lost...nor do they kill the number of people we have in the current situation. Not many of the folks you refer to as "them" will ever get to America. Most of the ones that do.....won't prevail. A few will in any case. Filling pot holes and moving our resource back to America is not the same as letting them "go about their business here of blowing up bridges".....that's a long stretch.
I'd say this...most of "our" defensive resource is now commited abroad...and it leaves us wide open for any and all kinds of problems.
Fix my streets, roads and bridges. It's a better use of public funds than war. Put the diplomatic crews to work doing their jobs.

Forest

"give up on that line of thought" - why should I? My opinion may not count for much, but at least it is mine. I respect everyone's point of view and although you may not agree with mine, I maintain that is valid as anyone else's.

[uptoblackwood]

"give up on that line of thought" - why should I? My opinion may not count for much, but at least it is mine. I respect everyone's point of view and although you may not agree with mine, I maintain that is valid as anyone else's.
It's "valid" until the next terror attack in the US. Right?
The point was...that another terror attack will (very likely) occur in the US, whether we are ""fighting them" over there...or not. For the most part, the holigans we are fighting on the ground in the middle east....are not the people that are going to organize and excute a terror attack in the US.
It's about oil in the middle east. Not WMD's or terrorists....

[Mellow]

This thread was started to send some good wishes those affected by the collapse.

However, it started to turn slightly political and now we're talking about terrorists and taking subtle jabs at each other's opinions.

I'm pretty close to deleting the whole thread. If you want to debate war issues there are other sites to go to. If you want to debate government policies, again, other places to go or write your congressman.

Debating these things here, in text rather than in person, will only create problems...

One more political reference and my finger will push the delete button.

[uptoblackwood]

Sorry....to all....

I'm glad they have finally brought in Navy divers! Hopefully they will soon recover the remaining victims.

Forest

[STPaulK]

Todays story is there is an official count of the cars visible above and below the waterline...88 vehicles. There is reason to believe there is still more underneath but what amazes me is how many people survived this collapse. In addition, 98 people were injured and only one remains in critical condition. I call that a miracle if there ever was one. Try to imagine yourself riding a bridge down 65 feet (or tumbling down the angled inclines at the ends). Some of the survivors stories are very riveting. One minute they are talking on a cell phone, listening to a radio, staring at the bumper ahead, etc and the next they are swimming to the closest rebar they could grab.

[bygdawg]

I can't nor do I want to imagine it. That would be horrific but especially so on a motorcycle. On a seperate note, prayers and thoughts go out to the trapped miners this week. Is it just me or does there appear to be a lot of tragedies happening lately?