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View Full Version : Modify ST1300 shield for minimal backpressure


NormanPCN
02-21-2005, 09:37 PM
Here is a modification you can do to make backpressure a non issue at any shield positon. Yes even all the way up. I basically did 2 2/3 cuts so you get to learn from my attempts ...err... mistakes. This will be a little wordy since I am go to explain what I did and why and how I tested.

The whole point of this modificatoin to to get air flowing "through" the shield. Wind blows from high to low pressure. The windshield punches a "hole" in the air. This is low air pressure. Air will rush into that hole. With the ST1300 shield up high the backpressure is huge at superslab speeds. Makes you feel like you are doing push-ups. Don't anybody go saying that this modification will let air past the shield and on you. Duh... that is the whole point and the only way to get rid of the backpressure. The air is going to hit you on the front, side or back. Take your pick. This modification attempts to balance the airflow.

I cannot speak for the Honda designers were thinking but the stock design seems to try and let air past the bottom of the shield but the opening is small and very restrictive. The air will take the path of least resistance and it is easier to go over the top and not through the "hole". This is becasue there is a high pressure point at the body and the shield opening needs to get far enough away from that to let any air through. Move your electric shield from bottom to top and watch the bottom of the shield and the space between the body. You can ride around and stick your hand behind the shield to feel the air passing through. Hardly anything. Hence backpressure. This modification opens up that gap.

My first test cut and arc are in the flat spot between the "points" at the bottom of the shield. I tested this and it worked quite well. No more push-ups but still some backpressure. So what kind of a backpressure "meter" was I using. My head. I have an RF-1000 and this helmet is designed to flow air over/around your head and exhaust it out the top vents and the nape of your neck. With backpressure air gets pushed up gap at the nape of my neck and I feel cold air around my head. This "meter" would not work in warm temps. As I raised the shield I could feel none/little/more cold air pushed up the back of the helmet. Cool. :D I was surprised that more air was not making its way through the "port". I felt I wanted a little more since my "meter" was still measuring some pressure even though the body was happy. With the shield all the way up airflow was good. Done deal, but I was not interested in the shield that high and I needed more airflow at a lower position. I slowly tapped the shield button, raising in tiny increments, and measured the point where the restriction released. I figured that cutting 1/4 to 1/3 of an inch more should do the trick.

Cut number two. This cut started just outside the "points" and had a mild arc with the center probably 1/3 inch higher than the first cut. Did a test and Bingo! Good airflow at the shield height I was interested in. The speed of this airflow is something like 30-50 when the bike is going 75-80. The airflow is not going up but is hugging the top of the dash. This makes sense because the lowest air pressure is behind the instrument cluster. Can you feel the air? Nope, it is not enough to feel. If you stick your hand up to the dash you can feel it.

I used a rotary tool with a multipurpose bit to cut the shield. I have never done anything like this ever and my first cut was a little crappy.

To draw an arc all you need is a piece of string. Tie one end to something and your marker to the other an you are now drawing an arc. The shorter the string the more the curve to the arc and the longer string the flatter the arc. I took the shield off the bike and fixed up a "clamp" with the peice of 1/4 inch plywood. I used 5/16 inch bolts an neoprene washers to protect the shield from the steel washers. Nothing special about neoprene. That is all Home Depot had. No plastic washers. I then bolted a 2x4 to the plywood. Somewhere on this was going to be my endpoint to tie the string to. I just slapped this together, no need to be precise. To get an even arc your stringbase point should be centered. To figure this hold the string down with your finger and measure to one of the shield mounting holes. Hold the string and swing over to the opposite hole. If you do not hit the same spot on the hole your base point is off. Remember that the length of the string determines the arc so you do this step in combo with determining what arc you like. Once you have your base point put a screw or nail in the spot to tie the string to. You can play with arcs using a hilight marker. Don't like it. Wipe and try something different. When you get something you like use a permanent marker. When you draw the arc reverse direction and go back the other way. This is a double check that nothing slipped (or the angle you held the pen). If you do not trace the same arc. Wipe and redo. GooGone will take off the permanent marker. I did not try other cleaners.

Now you cut. Put some masking tape around your arc. This will keep the rotary tool cutting guide from scratching the shield. I did try attaching the string to the rotary tool but I suggest you skip this. Freehand with the multi-purpose cutting bit. Cut close to but not right on the line. This bit, at least in my hands, does not make the cleanest cut and increases the sanding necessary. My first cut was done freehand cutting "on the line". From the pics you can see it is not too good. After cutting the majority of material away the use a high speed cutter bit that has a cylindrical shape. With this you can slowly and cleanly cut right onto your line. Now take the cutting guide off and freehand using the bit on the edges to clean up any burs and/or shavings. Apply pressure if you want your cut to have a bevel to it. I also felt the cut with my fingers looking for bumpy spots and tried to even those out by shaving them with the high speed cutter. This just saves sanding time.

Now you sand. Use a flap wheel sander attachmet for your drill. Ignore the sanding drums the rotary tool has. Use a mediam grit (80) flap wheel. The 80 works better than the fine (120). Keep the tape on the shield when you sand. You will on occasion slip and the tape will keep you from scratching the shield surface.

If you want to cut the minimum necessary and test to get exactly what *you* like, remember that with the multi-purpose bit you will want to cut about and 1/8 inch of material and the bit cuts a 1/8 inch path so your increments will be 1/4 to 1/3. Trying to cut extra with the high speed cutter bit will be quite slow. You migh want to buy some plastic at the home store and practice cutting on that to get the feel for cutting. Remember that plastic will melt some while cutting it. The melting is not an issue but you should know that it will happen. If you apply too much pressure with the sander, or stay in one place to long, that is what will happen as opposed to "sanding". You can draw test/final arcs with the shield on the bike. Tie a knot in the string and press it into the top gap in the "N" in Honda. Tape that down. Draw away. It is not a perfectly centered endpoint, but then neither is the one in the jig I assembled. If you want a different endpoint, tape the string to some other point.

The pictures.
1) FirstCut. After my test run. Just got home before the downpour! You can gauge how much I cut by looking at the plastic trim pieces using your uncut shield as a reference. I left one of my "wings" on for the pic. They do add to backpressure so understand that I was testing with those on my bike. Mark Lawrence made those wings and they attach with pasting removable rivets. They go on/off in a handfull of minutes.

2) This is a picture of my attempt at using the string to force the cutter on the arc. I quicky abandoned this and cut freehand.

3) This is a picture of my hilite maker and arc for the second cut after my test run of the first cut. The arc is not too visible but you can see that it starts just outside of the bottom "point".

4) FinalCut. Ain't she pretty!

NormanPCN
02-21-2005, 09:42 PM
I forgot to mention something. I am tall and the shield height I was adjusting for was about 3.5 to 4.5 seconds from the bottom. That is the best way I can describe how high I am raising the shield. I takes a touch over 7 seconds to raise to the max height.

dond
02-21-2005, 09:50 PM
Pix?? :confused:

NormanPCN
02-21-2005, 09:59 PM
Where the hell did my pics go. I uploaded them when I started the post. I guess something timedout since it took a while to edit and proof the post. I will edit the message and insert the pics again.

Dave Wicks
02-21-2005, 10:10 PM
:04biker: Hi Norm
Looks like you have the Cal Sci deflectors on your mirrors. I have a set that i have not installed yet, still winter. Do they seem to help? Got them because wife is getting buffeting, probably some of that back pressure issue. Windshiled may be more of a problem....What do feel on passenger buffeting and back pressure?

NormanPCN
02-21-2005, 10:30 PM
For the passenger you probably need a bigger shield. I gather this is true from posts I have read and if you think about it you can understand why. The passenger is farther back than the driver so you need to push the wind farther away so enough of the wind force is behind the bike before it closes in and hits the passenger.

Mark had small and large uppers. He said the small we fine for the rider but the large were best for the passenger. I cannot comment directly on that. I have the small uppers.

Joe Zulaski, MSN site, got a +6W CB shield because of his wife complaining about buffeting. As I remember he said that worked.

BillH_YVR
02-25-2005, 01:17 AM
Norman: Are you one of those getting 'drenched' down there these days? Well, the sunshine's up here for a change (go figure!). Cannot believe it... actually rolled the bike out and :04biker: went riding (250 miles) up this way and into northern Wash state this past weekend.
the sunshine was glorious!
On the subject of cutting the shield.... I was getting pretty 'wet' with the stock shield as it was :( . Tell me... any noticeable difference in water quantity coming in on you as you're flyin along in a downpour? ( Looks like you'd be getting even more coming in at you with the 'mod'). Any 'regrets' in the rain, having done it? I should think the next thing might be a 'slider' for the screen and label 'wet' and 'dry' ride (haha).
Cheers,

Bill

Mike
02-25-2005, 07:51 AM
I have a set of Marks wings, before my wife really took a beating on pillion regardless of shield postion, with the vents...well she won't go on a trip with- out them installed.

Air pressure would hammer her in the neck area before and with the deflectors she can leave the top of her jacket open and not be beat to death by the flap.

Now I am thinking about getting one of Mark's shields, the Cee Bailey is an improvement but still have back pressure and in a heavy rain the NACA lets a flood of water in.

Fireball18
02-25-2005, 08:05 AM
I've got a CB +4/+4 shield and so far most of the back pressure seems to be gone, and I haven't had any problems with a bunch of water coming in through the "NACA" vent in heavy rain. I'm not wild about the windshield, itself, because of a lot of distortion, and it's heavy, but it gets the job done way better than the stocker. :03biker:

NormanPCN
02-25-2005, 11:55 AM
Bill,
I have only ridden in the rain a few times. Once with stock, once with a Cee Bailey and once with my modification. With the stock and CB is rode at mixed speeds. With my modification I was at superslab speed (80-85mph indicated).

I have always found talk about getting a soaking from a small port in a windshield quite interesting considering you are sitting on a motorcycle. I think that should answer your question. But then I have limited rain experience, but riding in one storm is different that any other, and I do have at least one experience. I should note how I adjust the shield in the rain. To keep the visor clear I have found the shield must be way down, or up just to the piont where a downdraft exists in front of your face. This blows the rain off the visor like someone had a blowdryer positioned above your helmet. That exact shield position will vary by rider.

As for rain and my modification. Consider that the rain would have to make a sharp turn to get to your body. My modification is only a cut at the bottom of the shield. If the rain drop were stationary, suspended in air, it would hit the dash as you drive into it. Rain drops are not stationary. They have downward momemtum. The airpressure of the air flowing in the "port" at the bottom is not so much as it can affect the mass of a rain drop very much and thus deflect the drop. To get to you the drop would have to be blown up. So you need enough flow to reverse the downward momentum of the drop.

Obviously a port in the middle of a shield up in the area of your body has a better chance of letting a rain drop to get to you. Even so, one a drop makes it through the port it has to make a couple of feet horizontally to get to you. With a hole in a shield rain can "roll" through the port if it hits the shield below the port and is then blown up. These drops tend to be heavy, lower velocity as they have to break the surface tension, and thus not travel well. Kind of like the heavy drops that flick off the backside on the windshield, mirrors and such.

NormanPCN
02-25-2005, 01:03 PM
Mike,

You do realize that Mark's windshield's have vent ports in the shield at about the same height as the CB shield. If water through the CB port is a problem for you then you would most likely have the same issue with Mark's shield. I also notice that Mark's shields are also cutout at the bottom like my modification of the stock shield. Not surprising. It is an obvious tweak. Maybe not obvious to Honda.

Mike Millsap
02-27-2005, 04:16 PM
Norman,

I read your report on your windscreen modification with interest. I am getting my ST1300 ready for Spring riding and will soon put away the CalSci screen for the warm months.

I did your modifications today (or substantially your mods), and then mounted the modified screen and took a test ride. We had a warm day in Lubbock that is just now turning into a cold rain out of the North, but my return home was timely.

I confirm that the changes are very noticeable and positive just as you described. When I garaged my ST1300, I thought what a very comfortable distance ride it is. And I thought that I owed you a thank you for helping with the screen.

So thank you very much. Ride safely and enjoy.

Mike Millsap
Lubbock,Texas
STOC 318
'02 CBR1100XX Blackbird
'04 ST1300 ABS

Kennedy
02-27-2005, 05:04 PM
Nice write up Norman.
If you don't mind I will offer a tip about finishing the edges of cut plastic. Draw a sharp edge along your cut and it will act some what like a hand plan. Tilting it inward towards the direction you are moving in. Practice on a spare piece and you will see the results that you get in only a few passes will be as smoth as glass.

NormanPCN
02-27-2005, 08:17 PM
Nice write up Norman.
If you don't mind I will offer a tip about finishing the edges of cut plastic. Draw a sharp edge along your cut and it will act some what like a hand plan. Tilting it inward towards the direction you are moving in.

That's all greek to me. :confused:

NormanPCN
02-27-2005, 08:32 PM
Mike,
How much did you open up the bottom. I think could cut a little more for 85mph on the superslab. I still have some pressure at high speeds with the accessory deflectors attached.

I find it interesting how much you have to open up the bottom to get any airflow. If someone sat on a bike in a showroom and raised the shield halfway or more and the shield was open like my shield, then average person might freak thinking a ton of air will flow. In reality the airflow is about 10-25% of "common sense".

Ideally the bottom should be cut and also have a small vent port(s) up the shield. Something like the Calsci shields. I question my ability to cleanly make such holes. If you make an ugly cut on the bottom, it is really not all that visible.

BillH_YVR
02-27-2005, 11:53 PM
Thanks Norman for your insight.
On a recent trip south, to Seattle, the one particular thing I noticed with the ST (at freeway+ speed) in the rain was that the rain was streaming down the 'inside' of my face shield (a HJC full-face helmet). I could only assume (although I didn't feel this) that the aforementioned 'back draft' was 'lifting' /sucking the visor away from the helmet seal! I had never had this happen with previous bikes and likely because the wind was always square on and pressing on the face shield. Gad zooks... that one had me puzzled. I note that as my speed increases, I can watch the droplets rise up the windshield to the 'lip' and then from there.. wayward drops start 'peeing' all over me (same for the dash top) with the bulk of the rain going over and around me. Ah well, such is life. Here's to sunny weather!



Bill, in Vancouver

Mike Millsap
02-28-2005, 08:19 AM
Norman,

I cut a rectangular shape (approximately 3 1/2" tall x 4 1/2 wide) rather than an arc as you did. The corners are rounded with a diameter similar to the size of a small juice can (which I used). I used a metal dremel saw to do the cutting and it was quite easy. I also did the sanding with a dremel sanding tool.

Consequently, I suspect that I may have removed a bit more material than you did. An attentive examination of my mounted screen will reveal that I did some cutting and trimming on the screen, but it will take more than a casual look.

In warmer weather I prefer to ride with the screen in its lowest position unless the airborne insects are too bad. I now have a very smooth air flow around my head with the screen in that lowest position. The flow is also very much better with the screen raised.

Having your head buffeted back and forth in air turbulence caused by a wind screen is both annoying and very tiring. Your modification is a real improvement. This is a modification that improves function and has no effect on cosmetics.

Mike Millsap
Lubbock, Texas
STOC 318
"02 CBR1100XX Blackbird
'04 ST1300 ABS

NormanPCN
02-28-2005, 02:21 PM
I agree Mike, this change has no effect on cosmetics and a big real world effect on function. I did not measure before hand but I would guess that at the center high point about 1.5" was removed. Trick idea for doing your radius. :) There is no "right" way to do this modification except to say, open up the bottom to improve airflow.

NormanPCN
02-28-2005, 04:51 PM
On a recent trip south, to Seattle, the one particular thing I noticed with the ST (at freeway+ speed) in the rain was that the rain was streaming down the 'inside' of my face shield (a HJC full-face helmet). I could only assume (although I didn't feel this) that the aforementioned 'back draft' was 'lifting' /sucking the visor away from the helmet seal!

FWIW. I had one HJC helmet, SyMax, and compared to my Shoei (TZ-1, RF-1000) the faceshield did not seal as well to helmet. This has nothing to do with the flip up. May have been a bad helmet/shield.

VF1000R
05-13-2005, 09:59 PM
Norman , I am sure you are dead on about the cut.

You can take a look at what Rifle did for my Sabre here.

http://www.rifle.com/stores/showdetl.cfm?&DID=9&Product_ID=906&CATID=9&Product=CBX/Sabre_Windshield_System


The large cutout at the base of the shield is about 6"W and has a good 1 to 1.5" gap. I rode behind this shield for 30K miles and loved it. It's What I'm looking for in the ST.

As soon as I get the guts to start cutting on a NEW bike, I'll have to give it a try. Right now I have 65 miles on the bike TOTAL, and am still having NEW bike jitters.

VF1000R
05-14-2005, 06:50 PM
Hmmmmmm, Well , I dunno now.

In all the reading I've done here I don't remember anyone giving us their experiences when the Stock Shield is adjusted to it's upper setting. Not electrically but the actual mechanical adjustment on the shield itself.

I just made the height change and it raises the shield about 2 3/4".


The other noticeable thing is , there is now a GAPING hole at the bottom of the shield, that is larger than the cut Norman made if the shield were in the stock location. You could put a baseball through it.

I gotta try this out tomorrow. Because if raising the shield like this exposes a large flow through at the bottom of the shield , and back pressure is highly reduced, then the theory is good.

If I still get back pressure with the shield all the way up, hmmmmmm

There be something rotten in this here idear :eek:

Dave Wicks
05-21-2005, 12:37 PM
:04biker: :( :confused:
Okay I'm sinking into a depression!!! I have fallen in love with this motorcycle, I have put on a Cee-Bailey 6 wider/ stock height and the CalSci under mirror deflectors...Stealth Back rest..raised front of rear half of seat..My wife who is a real trooper..Coast to Coast in USA in 8 days...Coast to Coast in Canada last summer..lots of 500 mile plus days..loves to ride..She is getting whipped on the ST by the wind... I have never been as comfy on bike..She loves the seat..power..handling.. looks..but the wind is driving her off the bike..We have both put a brave face on it..But is not working thus far...It appears that wind is coming up past my legs...deflecting up hers..raming at her full face...My last attempt will be to try and deflect that wind..if not..(thus the cause of the depression) the ST is gone...Can't believe that Honda would sell such a beauty without managing the wind...and from this sight...without a proper seat for most of you...Man!! Open to any suggestions/ideas similar experiences....I love this bike, but I love my wife and riding with her more..
Had a dealer offer me what I paid for it less tax on a 1800 VTX ..sigh..as Jesus said to Peter.."get thee behind me Satan.." Don't want no stinking Cruiser...Be interested in talking with other riders who ride double...I think part of the problem is the "space" between us creates a hole for the air to rush into..I think..Thanks for listening... :04biker: :mad: :( :confused: :o:

NormanPCN
05-22-2005, 10:37 AM
In all the reading I've done here I don't remember anyone giving us their experiences when the Stock Shield is adjusted to it's upper setting. Not electrically but the actual mechanical adjustment on the shield itself.

I just made the height change and it raises the shield about 2 3/4".


The other noticeable thing is , there is now a GAPING hole at the bottom of the shield, that is larger than the cut Norman made if the shield were in the stock location. You could put a baseball through it.


I have cut about 2.5" off the bottom vent on my +6W Cee Bailey shield. I normally only raise the shield 2-3 seconds. 5-6 is full up. With that much cut off and raising the shield all the way the gap is definetly big. The cut still does not clear the dash when looking horizontal. Looking down from the seat you are looking diagonal. With a +6W CB shield, no CB NACA style vent, there is zip for backpressure when raised all the way, so for stock you will see that same. A 2.5" raised bottom vent is probably a bit much for all the way up people, even with a +6W CB let alone stock. 1.5" is probably good for stock.

gth1
07-05-2005, 11:13 AM
Thanks Norman for your insight.
On a recent trip south, to Seattle, the one particular thing I noticed with the ST (at freeway+ speed) in the rain was that the rain was streaming down the 'inside' of my face shield (a HJC full-face helmet). I could only assume (although I didn't feel this) that the aforementioned 'back draft' was 'lifting' /sucking the visor away from the helmet seal! I had never had this happen with previous bikes and likely because the wind was always square on and pressing on the face shield. Gad zooks... that one had me puzzled. I note that as my speed increases, I can watch the droplets rise up the windshield to the 'lip' and then from there.. wayward drops start 'peeing' all over me (same for the dash top) with the bulk of the rain going over and around me. Ah well, such is life. Here's to sunny weather!



Bill, in Vancouver
Bill,

A - very good and accurate description indeed - of the rain and wind chaos created by the ST1300 windscreen on my 2004. I was bewildered to discover, post purchase of course, that this 'thing' seems to direct wind and rain everywhere except AWAY from the rider. I'm baffled Honda would make such a poorly designed offering.

I have a Nationalcycle Plexifaring 3 on another motorcycle (handle bar and fork mount). Got caught in a frog strangler on the slab about 75 miles from home. Just below my knees and down I got soaked. Above my knees and up I was good and damp but never got 'wet' until I exited and stopped at a light. The dynamics of that screen not only kept the elements off me but kept the screen itself surprisingly clear throughout.

Conversely, I got caught in a similiar downpour on the ST and within a mile or so I was soaked; drenched, from neck to toe! I too wear a full coverage helment (Shoei) and rain was seeping in the around the upper gasket. Also, no matter the speed or position of the screen I couldn't find a spot where the dynamics would 'clear' the screen so I could even semi safely see! Plus, the rain was 'needling' my hands and fingers and we all know what fun that is.

I am not mechanically adept enough to attempt Norman's soultion.

Anyway, that/those are my problems. My question to you and all is: Does anyone know of an - after market - soultion.

Thank you for your time and courtesy,
gth