Who is at fault in 3 car accident?

[scotto]

Yeah, this is way off topic. I wanted to get some input from the intelligent people here at ST-owners about an accident I was just in.

I was just in a 3 car accident with my minivan being in the middle. I had just crossed a railroad trestle, the kind with the diamond plate sheets on the edges when the car in front of me abruptly stops to let another car out of a parking lot on the right. I braked hard and stopped within 2 feet of this car. All of a sudden I get hit hard in the rear by a pickup truck.

I get out to check on everybody and see that the pickup truck was still partially on the RR Crossing with the front bumper enmeshed about a foot into my rear hatch. I look at the car in front of me and there is still a space of 2 feet between our cars and no noticable evidence of contact that I could see.

The way I see it the car in front of me was negligent as it stopped abruptly without warning. (the speed was 10- 15 MPH). The Pickup in back of me was still partially on the metal diamond plate (it was raining and wet.) When I had to stop quickly the trucks tires evidently slid on the metal and caused her vehicle to crash into me.

Here is the kicker, the woman in front of me told the police that I hit her car and that she needed to go to the hospital and was taken away in an ambulance. I never got near her car!. There wasn't any marks on her car or my bumper!. She was walking around like she was feeling fine after.

Now I have to talk with a claims person from my insurance agency. The problem is I just volunteer too much information in situations like this and sometimes it just comes back to haunt me. I could never lie as a child and If I think somebody may think I am lying I start getting nervous and start acting like I am lying. Terrible problem to have I guess.

So my question after all this is What do I not want to say about this situation to anybody? BTW the police came and filled a report at the accident scene and there were a couple of witnesses.

I am just glad I wasn't on my motorcycle as I am sure I would of been the one to go to the hospital.

Thanks ,

[John Anthony]

<<usual disclaimers>>

My vote for fault goes to the truck that hit you. None for the woman in front who stopped abruptly. Sorry, but you have to anticipate the person in front of you stopping quickly as you never know what my dart out in front of them.

Unless I'm looking for the other driver to admit guilt, the only thing I'm going to exchange with another driver in an accident is what's required: my contact information (not my driver's license information) and my insurance company contact information. It's not that I'm not a friendly guy, it's just that we've become too darn litigious.

Good luck.

John

[hojo in sc]

You get what your paying for here, as I'm not a lawyer, but if you didn't hit the car in front of you, the police should take extra note of the bugs on your front bumper.

As for the car hitting you, that would be his/her fault, IMHO, as he/she was following too close.

[Mellow]

As long as the car in front of you had working tail lights.. which it must have because you were able to see it and stop in time, also because YOU weren't following too close... The truck on the other hand, either was following too close or wasn't paying attention.. it's hit fault..

[STPaulK]

Not sure exactly what you are asking here. All you can do is make sure the Police and any insurance investigators get your side of the story. Be honest but firm with your version of the truthful facts. If the cops did their job and examined the cars they will note the absence of any paint transfer, which will automatically put her in more question than you. Hopefully the witnesses were able to validate your side of the story.

I think the key thing is that you don't get into a jaw flapping mode and start advancing theories or personal opinions. Just state your side of the facts and leave it there. You might want to keep an open dialog with your own insurance to determine what her party might be up to. Remember that insurance companies wind up being fairly crafty about this situation. Her insurance might send papers to your insurance and your insurance will send their own legal papers back. Eventually they will figure something out.

[ligito]

In most states, if you didn't hit her, you're not at fault.
Now if you smack her for lying, then you may be possibly be at fault, if there is a witness.:)
The driver that hit you was at fault and you should keep a greater interval, as well, as you were too close to the car in front.

[NCrider]

It was the guy behind you at fault.

You must allow room to stop, depending on conditions. So, rain, snow, ice, whatever, if you hit the person in front of you it's your fault for following to close for conditions.

[Rob Hephner]

Which ever one of you has the better insurance company will come out ahead.

As far as citations if you didn't get one I would not worry about the lady in front of you. (She was in no way negligent or at fault for this accident.) The guy behind you depends upon the officer.

As far as fault (not sure what State you are in) you are supposed to wait for a vehicle in front of you to clear the railroad crossing before proceeding across, if you didn't you placed yourself in risk. Likewise the vehicle behind you should have followed the same rule.

[scotto]

So the person in back of you is always at fault in a collision. Hmmmm.....

Does that mean if my saddlebags need repainting on my St1100 I can get them replaced for free if I just let somebody tailgate me and slam on the brakes? :wasntme

[nm6r]

If the police did their job, there will be no question of you hitting her car.

It does happen. Good luck.

IMO, the guy that hit you is at fault as long as your brake lights were in good working order. The entire event would be his fault even if he pushed you into the car in front of you.

Ray

[Rob Hephner]

So the person in back of you is always at fault in a collision. Hmmmm.....

Does that mean if my saddlebags need repainting on my St1100 I can get them replaced for free if I just let somebody tailgate me and slam on the brakes? :wasntme


The Scoop and Squat or Brake Checking someone is seen as Insurance Fraud. ;)

[Don-STOC237]

My wife was in a three car accident almost exactly like you describe, with her being the middle of the accordian like you, several years ago.

It was judged to be the guy at the tail end's fault. The person at the front is never at fault, you are expected to be able to stop safely when someone in front of you stops abruptly. Same thing as if someone backs out of a parking space in front of you and you hit them, your fault.

[nm6r]

So the person in back of you is always at fault in a collision. Hmmmm.....

That's not true. If the person in front stops quickly and the car in the middle hits them without ever hitting the brakes, then the person in the back hits the middle car, it's the middle car's fault. The problem being (especially with ABS) proving the middle car never hit the brakes or hit the brakes too late. There would likely need to be witnesses or admission from the middle car.

I'm basing this on a local accident that I know of. The middle driver admitted to being busy on her cell phone and didn't hit the brakes.

Ray

[MileHigh]

The person in front can tell the police the moon is made of green cheese.

Did you hit her or not? Did the police file an accident report and claim/show you hit her? If they didn't report that you hit her, she can go pound sand. Let her eat the waaaambalunce and doctor bill. Where you charged/cited with anything?

If they did file the accident report showing you hit her, time to talk with your insurance provider. Let them do the leg work.

[kwslhs]

Agree with the gallery here that the truck in the rear is at fault.

If he were to push you into the lead car, it would again be his fault.

Its a little disturbing that anyone would consider the lead car in this case as being at fault, to me.

One might not agree with her judgement in allowing another car to move out whilst interrupting the flow of traffic - including myself.

But whether it was that or another reason, I don't believe it makes a flit of difference as to fault. She might have seen a child moving between cars, or one of a thousand reasons which cannot be ascertained at the moment you have to decide to brake.

When driving YOU always have the responsibility to maintain a safe distance and, by definition, if you hit another car you have failed to maintain a safe distance.

To slough off one's own responsibility because someone else didn't have a good enough reason for you stop in time to avoid contact won't fly in court.

NOT a lawyer, just yakkin'.

[Indy1096]

First, make sure you get pictures of your front bumper and let your insurance agent know right away that you don't thank you made contact with the person in front of you. Let them know what that driver is trying to pull.

Second, the person that hit you was at fault. They were following to close.

I just worked an accident were a car pulled out in front of another car causing them to slam on their brakes. This caused a 3 car accident. The original car was never hit and left before we arrived. Because contact was never made with the first car it is not considered part of the accident. The 3rd car in the accident actually pushed the second car into the first (the one slammed on her brakes) and is responsible for the accident. Does this make sense.

If you were completely stopped you should not be liable for the accident.

This is just an opinion of a LEO and should not be taken as actual Lawyer talk.

[illzoni]

I'm with 'kwslhs' on this...

I do have second-hand knowledge (coworker) who braked to avoid a short-stopping vehicle in front. Then he was struck from behind and driven into the front vehicle. He was found to be partially at fault for failure to control his vehicle.

Unfortunately, several types of accidents result in the insurance companies just handing out blame according to some inane statistics. Then they jack your rates regardless of actuall fault. If you ever get into a parking lot fender bender...good luck. At least with something on the street the LEO lends a bit of common sense to the situation.

[Mark]

As I have understood it (the sister in law was in the middle of a 5 car on hwy 138) everyone sued everyone else and let the lawyers figure it out.
The insurance companies were of course involved.

I believe the result was "if you were completely stopped" then you were not at fault. If you were moving then some of the 'blame' ended up on your insurance.

Your state and how the policeman writes it up will be the deciding factors.

I would put in a claim no matter what; because the insurance for the last car will be on the hook for all of the damage to the front and back of your bike.

Mark

[Computer Nerd]

Here in Kalifornia, the guy who hit you is solidly at fault. If you had hit the insurence fraud cupcake in front of you, you would have been at fault.

You are supposed to leave enough space to avoid a collusion. In the real world, that ain't always possible.

Suggestion: make sure your lawyer reminds her lawyer that you will be submitting a report to the insurance agency that she has made a fraudulent claim.

[AZST]

Piece of sound advice:

Make sure that the insurance adjuster (from YOUR company) who inspects your vehicle and writes the estimate does a visual inspection of the front bumper absorbers. This means that he has to get down on his back and take good/clear color photos of the front absorbers. As the absorbers go in, they leave evidence of how much of an impact. If they are filthy dirty (like most are) and show no evidence of impact--- this is strong evidence to have. I suggest that you convince the woman to have your adjuster write an estimate for her vehicle as well and insist on examining the rear absorbers on her vehicle. If pristine, same thing....NO IMPACT.

Don't put too much "stock" in the police report...just make sure that the cop got the general facts correct, i.e., your version at the time of the accident.

Witnesses. Make sure that your investigating adjuster takes the time to get recorded statements from these people. Insist on it. The sooner the better. Most witnesses in a rear end type accident can't say for certain the chronology of the impacts...but you may get lucky and get someone that is willing to confirm that you didn't contact the vehicle in front. If so, you want this information in your claim file.

Without knowing the laws in your state about railroad crossings, I can't say for sure if you bear any negligence or not. My opinion is that you did nothing wrong.

Regarding her stopping, she has a right to. Assuming for a moment that you did strike her (I know you said you didn't) did she brake for a reason? If she slammed the brakes on for no reason...your adjuster could put up a "sudden stop" defense in which you could argue that she either stopped for no reason at all or she stopped short intentionally. This, of course, is difficult to prove without solid witnesses. If she stopped to avoid another vehicle in her path...then forget this argument.

Make sure you are 100% clear on the facts before giving any statements.

Good luck.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
:04biker:

[Indy1096]

Mark,

Not sure how much the insurance companys and the lawyers care how police write the report. I keep them generic (unless it is very clear about what happen) You would be surprised how many traffic lights showed green all 4 directions at the sametime. :grin:

[RibsST1300]

I agree, the guy that rear ended you is at fault.
You controlled your vehicle and stopped.

This does make me wonder though..INSURANCE FRAUD. It could be a setup.
Guy in back pops you, hoping to send you into acomplice riding in front of you. She cries and goes to the hospital, tries to sue you for damages.
POW, your insurance comapny pays out, your rates go up.
Classic scheme...beware...

[thumperjdm]

I haven't worked a crash in about seven years, but here's my scoop:

In California, the vehicle that hit you would be what we call Party One in the crash (the party most at fault, or totally at fault), and the Primary Collision Factor would be CVC 22350--unsafe speed for conditions (those which you listed--weather, traffic density, roadway surface, diminished coefficient of friction due to the wet road, etc.)

"Following too closely" is an observed violation, and wouldn't be used by the accident investigator unless he personally observed it to be a contributing factor to the collision. Even if he observed that violation, it would be an Associated Factor to the crash, and Unsafe Speed would still be the P.C.F. The safe speed for the vehicle behind you, because you were stopped, was 0 mph.

The lady in front of you is not at fault. Like others have said, she stopped--either to be nice, or she saw the vehicle was going to pull out in front of her regardless, so she had to stop. Had she suddenly slammed on her brakes for no reason in the middle of busy freeway traffic, that would change things.

You were following at a safe enough speed which allowed you to stop without colliding into her. The driver behind you had the same responsibility.

[mshihrer]

ha, I actually had this happen to me, a long time ago. LONG time ago. In El Segundo, I was like 20, and I was driving a Dodge Colt, little car. I was sitting at a stop light, I was actually the first car, there was a car behind me. I hear the guy behind me hitting his horn, beep beep beep, can't figure out why until the last second, I see in my rearview mirror, a Honda Civic plow into the back of the car behind me, and in turn, that guy plows into me. There was a gas station on the corner, so, me and the guy behind me pull into it. The Honda, driven by what appeared to be a drunk Asian lady, turned right on the street next to the gas station. I'll never forget the sound of the car, it was like a cartoon, wohkity wohkity wohkity...you get it. anyway, there is an exit from the gas station that goes onto this side street the Asian lady was driving her car down, about 5 miles an hour. Waiting to pull out onto this street, still in the gas station parking lot, is an old Chevy Corvair, only restored, and customized, with fancy paint, wheels, etc, and a FOR SALE sign on it. the guy driving it, I'll never forget the look on his face, watched in HORROR as the ASIAN lady wohkity wohkity wohkitied right into the side of his pristine Corvair. Unreal. the cops had a good laugh when they realized this lady took out three cars. And I'll never forget her name. Aster Kabeed.

EDITED to add:
BTW, it was her fault

[jholder]

Based just on what you posted, it looks like there is some shared responsibility. I would place the driver of the pick-up primarily at fault since the driver apparently did not have sufficient room to stop. The driver of the car in front of you though is also required, at least in California, to give warning of an impending stop if they have time to do so. What that means is they are not supposed to slam on the brakes to allow another vehicle to pull out, etc. Slamming on the brakes as an evasive maneuver to avoid a collision is a different animal. It depends on why she did it.

My advice, don't run your mouth until you talk to your attorney/insurance company. Things like you described are my business so if you have any other questions let me know. You should be fine on this one.

Ride safe,

[hojo in sc]

That's not true. If the person in front stops quickly and the car in the middle hits them without ever hitting the brakes, then the person in the back hits the middle car, it's the middle car's fault. The problem being (especially with ABS) proving the middle car never hit the brakes or hit the brakes too late. There would likely need to be witnesses or admission from the middle car.
Ray


Ray: Me thinks he was just being funny, and does not believe that the car in front was at fault.

I was a witness to a rear end accident (I was the third car) and the lady in front of me said I hit her, pushed her into the car in front of her. This was absolutely INSANE, as I could clearly see the first car did not have an open lane to accelerate onto (we were in the On Ramp of a freeway). I could see the lady in the second car was looking over her left shoulder, not seeing that the car in front was having to STOP. Thus, I stopped and watched it happen.

The LEO spoke to the lady in front of me first, then to me, he said that she told him I pushed her into the first car, which was when I told the LEO she was INSANE. He went and looked at my front bumper and told me that all the bugs were present and accounted for, and that I could leave. I told him thanks, and that I would NEVER wash my bumper again!

[thesmithiz]

I had avery similar accident several years back, I stopped quick as cars in front of me did. The car behind me hit me and pushed me into the car in front of me, all 3 cars had damage. Police report and the insurance all laid blame on car that hit me. Typically if you rear end a stopped car you are 100% at fault. The way it was explained to me inmy circumstances was there was no reasonable wayI culd be expected to keep my car from hitting the one in front of me as it was push by the one hitting me, he was responsable for all damages. fastest claim I ever saw settled by the way!

[Mark]

Mark,

Not sure how much the insurance companys and the lawyers care how police write the report. I keep them generic (unless it is very clear about what happen) You would be surprised how many traffic lights showed green all 4 directions at the sametime. :grin:

I understand this part completely... 8 people looking at the exact same intersection will see 8 different things; and all of them 'could' be telling the truth... the eyes might see but the brain interprets what it sees and that is what people remember.

If the LEO didn't see it then all they can do is write down what they can see.

Glad to know that bugs on a bumper are checked and accepted as evidence too!!!

Mark
Mark

[Skywriter]

Was the driver who rear-ended your vehicle cited for following too closely??

[scotto]

Thanks for all the replies,

It looks like the last cars insurance has to pay for everybody else.
Apparentley the pickup truck behind me pushed my van into the car in front of me when I had stopped and just lightly "bumped" them".

The repair estimate on my vehicle is 7K and it will be 3 weeks before I get it back. Until then I get a Volkwagon Passat Turbo to drive. :)

Thanks again for the quick and knowledgable answers.

Scotto