inner cowl vents

[ssls6]

How many people here have vented their inner cowls? I'm toying with the idea.

Thanks,
RLK

[beastie]

Heat and oil seem to be recurring themes on the forums. Of course, as new STs are added to the ranks, they have these concerns and have not read all the previous discussions.

I have cut a rectangular hole in mine. Other guys have done the same with the holes being larger or smaller. Hippo did a beautiful job of drilling holes in his. I don't know how well his work. I can tell you from my experience that my fairing pockets are much cooler and the heat coming out the side of the fairing is also much less. I found the cut to be a very good improvement.

The reason we cut instead of removing them (and I know some guys have just removed the inner cowls) is to maintain structural strength for the fairing.

I have attached a picture of mine. Hippo's picture is out there somewhere also.

[Fireball18]

I did the cut out thing for my wife's ST, and removed them entirely on mine, just to see if there will be a difference in heat control. On mine, I also made a couple of plastic strips (from some of the left over plastic from doing the cutouts on my wife's bike) and drilled a hole in each end to secure the fairing pieces and keep them from pulling apart due to wind pressure at higher speeds.

[Killtimer]

Nope. No need in my climate with the '03. The jury's still out on the new one.

Steve

[tccox]

Nope, no need too on my 04, even in our 90+ degree F southern summers, Not even in heavy traffic conditions, I've simply seen no heat problem on my bike.

I still think someone should pursue the thought that some ST’s are just producing MORE heat than others and if that’s true , why ????? Hacking up the inner cowl might just be treating the symptom and not the disease .....

[Bones]

The only time I ever noticed the heat was one humid 90+ degree day when I decided not to wear my Cortech riding pants. In New England I'm typically more concerned about adding heat anyway.

[NormanPCN]

I still think someone should pursue the thought that some ST’s are just producing MORE heat than others and if that’s true , why ?????

Been there, done that. The bikes were the same. One rider who rides in shorts with no issue and one rider (me) who had an issue. The bikes were the same. Regarding shin heat, the difference is the rider and how they sit and their personal body reaction to the heat the bike is generating. Some are very sensitive and some are oblivious.

[tccox]

NormanPCN

Am I to undrstand that you traded bikes with someone who said they had no heat problem and you feel the bike was about the same , heatwise as your bike ????? I've been wondering if anyone had done that and was willing to swap for a few miles with someone in the Charlotte area who had a "Hot" ST.

[Clark]

I've owned 6 different bikes, with a total of about 130,000 miles riding experience overall. I had never felt anything even close to the heat coming off of my ST13.

The heat was enough to produce red marks on the inside of my knees/legs even though I was wearing a Roadcrafter over a pair of Levi's. The lower parts of the tank got too hot to touch with bare hands.

I put up with this for a while, then after reading several posts about the cowls, I removed mine. This completely resolved the issue. The areas of the bike that got so hot before now remain cool to the touch. Someone's post compared it to installing an airconditioner on the bike. I agree. I will cut vents of some sort into the cowls and replace them for support of the rest of the tupperware, but for me, this has made a very big difference.

Based on my experience with this bike, I have trouble believing that all ST's are producing the same amount of heat. I know a lot of folks say they have no issue. I believe you and am not trying to convince you otherwise. Conversely, please don't try to convince me I was imagining the burning on my legs.. :)

I know the magazines that tested pre-release models complained loudly about the heat issue. I also know that Honda made subtle changes to the bike to try and deal with this. I have an early '03. Maybe that's the issue?

Anyway, if your bike is baking you, vent or remove the cowls. You will be amazed at the difference. (takes about 10 minutes to remove them if you're slow, like me.)

[hippo888]

Here's my attempt at ventilation.

I have a lengthy write-up on another thread -- things I'd do differently and how to protect an exposed wiring harness.

[Fireball18]

I have heat coming from my '03 as well as from the '04. Neither of them, however, produces so much heat that it causes the insides of the legs to get red. I notice the most heat whenever I accelerate the bike. The engine, working harder under load like that, will put out more heat, however after reaching the desired cruising speed, it cools back down again. It is a mystery as to why some bikes seem to put out a lot of heat and yet it's not an issue with others. Go figure.

[NormanPCN]

Am I to undrstand that you traded bikes with someone who said they had no heat problem and you feel the bike was about the same , heatwise as your bike

That is exactly what we did. Mark Lawrence (the CalSci guy) and I did the test. We both road around in shorts. Bare leggs to best fell the heat. I also measured various points on the bikes (fairing, cylinder head, exhaust...) with an IR thermometer. We were also in city stop and go and the bike fans came on and off within 10 seconds of each other. The weather gods did not cooperate and the hotest temp we saw was 88. We were hoping for mid 90's. I also performed some tests of leg position and heat felt on the shins. In close or out wide are way different than in the middle. Mark Lawrence was developing his hot wings and wanted someone sensitive to the heat to test them on since he had not issues and could not be sure what was really necessary. I decided what the hell and did the 8 hour ride to his place from mine. Our findings were all documented ages ago on the MSN site.

Understand that the mototcycle is a machine built to a spec. Only manufacturing tollerences allow for any variation and these tollerances do not amount to much. To say that humans are variable or inconsistent is an understatement.

[NormanPCN]

I should also note that I am not as heat sensitive as I was initially. I have ridden in 104 degree temps. I had Mark's hot wings, the first set, and decided that I would put the Honda deflectors on to replace them. This was a cosmetic decision. While the deflectors sat on the floor waiting to be installed I realized that the heat was not really an issue anymore. I am not saying that my lower legs to not get hot. They do and feel hot to the touch in warm weather. I am just not uncomfortable. Deflectors may push air away from your shin but they also create a lower pressure zon around the back of your leg, thus pulling heat onto your calf. I noticed this with the hot wings and Mark later added panels to block air from coming from behind your leg. Whenever you do something that affects something else. It is better to try and mix cool(er) air withe the hot rather than to keep trying to push the hot air away.

I originally reported a "heat rash" on my left shin. I attributed this to the ST leg heat. Well, maybe 7 months later the rash showed up again and it was not warm and I was not riding. It seems clear that the rash was some skin condition probably aggravated by the heat the ST puts out.

[tccox]

OK, My experience. 40 years on motorcycles, a good part of the last 30 years commuting to work in downtown Charlotte in horrid traffic. Our southern summers see close to 100 degree temps. I've owned 35-40 motorcycles over the years from H-Ds to BMWs to Moto-Guzzis, all ridden in high heat conditions and heavy traffic. I'm also on some medication that makse me more than normally sensative to heat. I typically wear dockers slacks on my comute (OK, no lectures, I know) My ST simply has no heat problem and is in fact much more comfortable to ride in high heat that my previous bike, a 2002 R1150RA. No red marks, no burns nothing that would make me want to hack up my bike. Sorry, I'm still totally convinced that there are some STs that are producing vastly more amounts of heat than others.

[beastie]

I don't know if I was more or less affected by the heat then others, but the main reason I cut my inner cowls was to reduce the heat in the fairing pockets. My cell phone has a metal case and after a couple of hours in the right pocket, I almost couldn't hold it. It was that hot! Also I had my HRCA membership card in the pocket and it assumed the shape of the curvature in the bottom of the pocket. I did not measure the temperature in the pocket before I did the cuts to the cowls, but after it never got hotter than the ambient temp, so nothing in the pockets was more than warm to the touch.

An additional benefit was that the seat and tank (and therefore, me) did not get as hot as before. Obviously a result of pushing cooler air through the innards of the beaST.

don auSTin

[hippo888]

tccox,

I've had at least 5 oilhead boxers and none even remotely dumped out the heat like my ST13. Maybe rider size (and therefore rider position) has a lot to do with the percieved heat. I'm 5'8", 150lbs., I have the saddle in the lowest, most forward position and ride up as close to the tank as possible. This probably puts me as close to the heat as possible.

I'm going to have to track down Bill and trade bikes with him for awhile and see if his is as hot...

[sokay]

I wonder if the heat doesn't come down after the bike has 5 or 10 thousand miles on it? I never had much heat but last summer it was like none at all.

[Fireball18]

I have just shy of 15000 miles on my '03, and the amount of heat generated hasn't changed. I just control it with the heat saddle blanket, CalSci heat/wind deflectors and removal of the inner fairing panels. I can live with that.

[dbst1300]

I finally took some photos of the original (L) inner fairing liner and the fairing liner that I have cut down. If I were to cut another set down, I would leave more plastic (red highlighted) on the top of the liner. It takes care of any heat problem for those with the heat problem (like me). I run the cut down liners year round.

Dennis

[OldWingit]

I would send some pics of my inner cowls but I just tossed them under the workbench two years ago and I have been happy ever since.

Ed

[jeffmiller]

How hard is it to get to these inner cowls? Love to do the same for mine....

[lbo]

I have an 06 with 1300 miles and it throws lots of heat, including in the glove boxes. Out here where I live it can easily reach 113 most summer days so any additional heat is intolerable.
I can't get a visual fix on what I need to do. I need photos from a different perspective. Anybody have a link?

[crazykz]

I thought about just matching the right side cowl. THe right side cowl has three slots cut in it from the factory. Has anyone just done that to make them match?

I probably won't do it because I put my fuse block on the left side so it is protected there. If I open that up then the fuse block will take the full on blow of everything coming at me.

Curt

[haysenglehart]

Ok, I'm a SoCal rider and have noticed the heat. I installed the deflectors from Honda, that helped alot. (Another post) But the pockets are still really hot. I keep my MixIt which I run my Ipod and XM radio through in the left pocket, no problem yet but it does get hot.

I've seen the "drilled" inner cowls and the "square hole", and now a cowl almost completely cut away. Ok, who knows which is best? I know, I know, each to his own. I'm thinking about a couple of circular holes, using a door knob hole saw, about 3" round. Maybe a couple, maybe more, of holes, spaced so I don't lose the strength of the piece?

Any ST Engineers out there who would want to chime in and save me from having to spend 4 years on an engineering degree?

Thanks!

[ccryder]

Keep up with the engineering degree. Just add Chinese and spanish to your classes, maybe some Japanese too. Manufacturing and design are being done 24/7 across the ocean and borders but, it should turn around sometime in the next decade or so. At your age you will see it happen b4 you retire. Me, I'm trying to find a company that is North Am. centered in mfg and design but with global sales and marketing (might find one Monday, wish me luck).

Ooops, not to hijack this thread, I ran with my left cowl removed for the last 2 summers. Wednesday I drilled Twelve 1" holes in the upper part of the left cowl. I'll probably add some more lower down. I have to be cautious on the right side since I have so much of my front cowl power over there (see pict)

Neil S.

[haysenglehart]

Good lord Neil! What are you powering with all that wiring? Did you convert your ST to nuclear power? Just kidding, I'm sure you're just like the rest of us and want your "toys" with you, like GPS, XM, etc.

So you ran without your left cowl completely off? I assume that was ok, but what about rain and additional noise? Was it ok, any problems?

[ccryder]

Rain nor noise was a problem with the left inner cowl off. Since my last R&R of the cowls I did instal both inner cowls but I used one of those stepped drills to drill some holes. Two nice things about the stepped drils are: 1: They deburr the holes automatically. 2: You can easily vary the hole size to suit the room you have. Even though I have all that wiring in the right side I added some holes down low to help with airflow. The left cowl I added about 16-20 holes of varying size.

Time2Work
Neil S.

[BeBeep]

This past Sunday TLTONEY and I went for a ride and during one of our stops he commented about the heat coming from his bike. We compared both bikes and the wierd thing was that my frame was cooler to the touch than his was. We were going the same speeds and everything but there was a very noticable difference.

I was thinking about this yesterday and decided to modify the spare set of inner cowls I had to see if I can cool things down even more. I plan to insulate the pockets soon so that I can cool those down also. I know the arguments but it does work. (ask georgegeorge)

So attached is my handy work on the cowls. I used 1/2" tape to map out my cuts and I used a Dremel with cutting wheel and just followed along the edge of the tape. It is not as pretty as I would like but it is also mostly hidden so it really does not matter. Now I gotta road test it to see if I notice the cahnge.

[ccryder]

I used one of those "Step-Drills" (They look like a pine cone). They deburr the hole and you can vary the size of the hole real easy. My right cowl probaly has 12-15 holes and my left cowl 25-30. Most holes are 1/2" to 1".

Neil S.

[BeBeep]

That is a good idea and much cleaner I would think.

[motomac]

Wow, I really feel for you guys that have to worry about heat. I just got back from one of my warmest rides this year and it is 38 F. It was up to 45 F a little whie ago and then the sun started to go behind the clouds.
So at least one of you Folks actually did away with the inner cowls?

[Jefro]

I opened my inner cowl vents using a 1.5 inch door knob hole saw to cut six holes. Very quick and easy, and the structural strength is maintained. I have noticed much cooler temp in the glove boxes too.

[acmaui]

I opened my inner cowl vents using a 1.5 inch door knob hole saw to cut six holes. Very quick and easy, and the structural strength is maintained. I have noticed much cooler temp in the glove boxes too.

but how does it work? Is it cooler in the seat at a traffic stop?

[Jefro]

I never got any heat at a stop light from the seat area. After taking off my fairings for some electrical work, I could see that my bike has good insulation near the rider areas.

[DataHawk]

I just picked up my 2006 this afternoon. Only 55 miles on the bike and I couldn't believe how hot it was in the storage pockets.
I have read this whole thread and have seen where it has been asked where these cowls are and how to get to them but haven't seen an answer.
So where exactly are the cowls, how do I get to the cowls so I can open a little air flow?
Anyone have a write up with pictures?

[BeBeep]

Here are a couple of pics I grabbed from the manual.

[DataHawk]

Thanks guys, that helps a bunch. I'll go hunt those down in the morning.

[crazykz]

Thanks guys, that helps a bunch. I'll go hunt those down in the morning.

If you want to remove the inner cowls to do some testing you'll need a phillips screwdriver and probably a small (3mm) allen wrench just to pop a couple rivets.

The inner cowl is fastened by 4 pull rivets, 1 phillips head screw, and 2 flush rivets.

The screw is located near the corner and on the underside of the headlamp. Then there is one pull rivot just behind that screw. Then there are 3 pull rivets that run down along the side opposite from the middle cowl, pointing in towards the forks, if that makes any sense. The final 2 rivots are up by the fairing pocket. They face the forks and are in the lip of the middle cowl piece. This are removed by pushing the center pin in about 1/8" and then pulling the rivot out by it's head.

There is an small overlapping catch with the inner cowl and the lower cowl right where they meet. It's less than a 1/4" wide. You'll have to pop the inner cowl out over the top of the catch of the lower cowl. Be gentle with it though. You don't want to snap either one.

That will allow the inner cowl to drop out the bottom. The inner cowl slips back into the middle cowl on the inside of that lip. It's a bit of a challenge to get it back up in there and putting those two top rivots in is the first thing you should do when putting it back in as those two top rivots will hold it in place.

[Highrider]

I opted to keep the inner cowls intact as much as possible and take as little material out for looks and stability. I cut a 3.5" slot then melted and formed the cowl to create an air scoop type of detail. Unless you know what your looking for, the mod isn't obvious, it looks factory and seems to work great.

Dave
:biker:

[JReviere]

I have an "early" 03 ABS. The other day in 80+ ambient temps, I noticed my left leg was getting uncomfortably warm. (boots and jeans) I'm short, sit as far forward as possible and as low as possible...MCL riser plate, personally built custom saddle... leg not in contact w/fairing, but close. I'm waiting for real TEXAS summer to see if I need to R&R the inner cowls and use the 2" hole saw I have (bought to install door locks on house) to increase the cooler air flow inside the fairing... Thanx to those who attached pictures. I've copped them and will file them for reference when comes summer.

JR
STOC 394
ORF 13
03ST1300A
Lake Livingston, TX

[DataHawk]

Thanks to everyone that answered yesterday. With your instructions it probably didn't take me a 1/2 hour to pull both cowls, drill 9 or 10 1" holes in each one and reinstall. 60 mile ride today and the heat was noticeably down.

[v908]

Okay, I've got to ask... With all the messages regarding removing the inner cowls, or drilling holes, or making slots, etc., what are you compromising in the process? That is, what are the inner cowls supposed to do? I'm sure Honda intended some benefit that might be compromised (perhaps not) with these mods. So, what are the inner cowls supposed to do, and what drawbacks are there to modifying them? I'm all for reducing the heat on my ST (and have already wrapped the headers), but am reluctant to perform a mod that might have some other negative effect (like rain protection or something). Thoughts?

[gregj]

If there were drawbacks to ventilating the upper cowls, surely we would have heard about them by now. From an observation perspective, their main purpose seems to be to aid in directing air flow into the radiator. However with them out or even ventilated, no one has reported any negative effects from doing so. I commute daily on mine, and have never had an issue with the ST getting hot after ventilating the upper cowls. If anything, you may be doing more damage by wrapping your headers than by ventilating the upper cowls (jury may still be out on this one). I wrapped mine, and so far I'm not very impressed with the results, and will most likely be pulling the wraps off.

[v908]

Hmmm. Is there an increased chance of water (rain) getting into some electronics or other stuff that's currently hidden behind the inner cowls? I ride regardless of the weather, so I wouldn't want to expose stuff to water than might otherwise be kept dry (and certainly, warm).

[Pete in PA]

Hmmm. Is there an increased chance of water (rain) getting into some electronics or other stuff that's currently hidden behind the inner cowls? I ride regardless of the weather, so I wouldn't want to expose stuff to water than might otherwise be kept dry (and certainly, warm).

Going by your pic you have an 11, this applies to the 13.

[v908]

Going by your pic you have an 11, this applies to the 13.
Old picture. I'm riding a 2005 ST1300 now -- just hadn't the time to update my profile picture. Is that better now?

Actually, this sort of applied to the 1100s too. I removed the inner cowls on my 1100 (heat issue as well), but they were much smaller and didn't seem to present the same coverage concerns as on the 1300.

[Pete in PA]

Old picture. I'm riding a 2005 ST1300 now -- just hadn't the time to update my profile picture. Is that better now?

Actually, this sort of applied to the 1100s too. I removed the inner cowls on my 1100 (heat issue as well), but they were much smaller and didn't seem to present the same coverage concerns as on the 1300.


Much better!:)

I've only had mine since April but my opinion is bare bikes have the same wiring and they don't short out.:shrug2:

[gregj]

Hmmm. Is there an increased chance of water (rain) getting into some electronics or other stuff that's currently hidden behind the inner cowls? I ride regardless of the weather, so I wouldn't want to expose stuff to water than might otherwise be kept dry (and certainly, warm).

Not that I've seen. I'm a daily commuter, rain or shine, and have seen no problems with ventilating the upper inner cowls.

[djbinaz]

If there were drawbacks to ventilating the upper cowls, surely we would have heard about them by now. From an observation perspective, their main purpose seems to be to aid in directing air flow into the radiator. However with them out or even ventilated, no one has reported any negative effects from doing so. I commute daily on mine, and have never had an issue with the ST getting hot after ventilating the upper cowls. If anything, you may be doing more damage by wrapping your headers than by ventilating the upper cowls (jury may still be out on this one). I wrapped mine, and so far I'm not very impressed with the results, and will most likely be pulling the wraps off.

So, what's wrong with the wraps? They don't decrease the heat? I would be interested in your analysis of how they work as that is the next thing I was going to try to decrease the heat around my ankles on my new-to-me 2004 ABS.

I think I have a unique perspective on this whole heat issue and I'm convinced that different STs produce a different amount of heat. I currently own two 2004 ST 1300s, one with ABS and one without. I bought the non-ABS ST about 3 years ago when it had 4000 miles on it and proceeded to put about 45,000 miles on it including 2 cross country 6000+ mile trips. That bike had a mild heat problem when I first got it, but once I cut the inner cowlings, added a belly panel, and covered the vents in the "wings" the heat problem went away. I like that bike so much that I decided to buy another ST with ABS when it became available from a local owner. The ABS bike is also an 04, but it only had 6500 miles on it. I figured I would keep the ABS bike and sell my non-ABS bike.

My problem is the ABS bike is about twice as hot as the non-ABS bike ever was, and so far no matter what I do, I cannot get the heat down to an acceptable level. I ride in Phoenix, where the average daytime summer temps are about 105, and I ride all year round. I've tried every mod to the ABS bike that I did to the non-ABS bike. The only thing that has made a slight difference was to remove the inner cowls. At first I simply put the cut out cowls from my original ST onto the new one, but it was still hot, so now I've removed the cowls completely (slightly better). The one last mod that I need to make to the ABS ST is to add the TurboCity fuel pressure regulator, but I doubt that will do anything about the heat. At this point, there is no way I would take this new bike across country (I did a 1500 mile Colorado trip and it was very uncomfortable at times).

I've read a whole lot of threads on the heat issue on this forum over the years and always thought people that experienced the heat issue were making a big deal out of nothing. Well now I realize that I was lucky that my original bike didn't have the problem (or maybe I'm unlucky that my new-to-me 04 ABS has the problem).

Some of the things I've read on this forum about the heat issue and why I disagree:
1. You're not wearing proper riding gear: Wrong, I wear the same gear on both bikes. Alpinestar Gortech Riding boots (half calf height) all year long and either Airglide mesh pants or draggin jeans.
2. Some people are more sensitive to the heat: Wrong, same rider different bikes (same model year though). I'm certainly not sensitive to heat (cold maybe), as I ride all year round in Phoenix.
3. All the STs produce the same amount of heat. Wrong, see number 2.

Anyway the exhaust wraps were going to be my last hope for this bike unless the heat issue goes away by itself as I get more miles on the bike, if I can keep it that long :(

[Pete in PA]

This is interesting. If that's the case WHY? Why would one ST be hotter than any other?

A lean running engine runs hotter than one running rich but they should all be running the same.

I just fitted a FPR, wondering if that will cool the bike any.

My inners are cut down to the size of your fist to hold the rest of the fairing together and give a home to the ambient sensor. Cooled it off considerably and I'm now fine with it, but might not be enough in Arizona.

[Blrfl]

Put your hand in the space between the fairing pocket and the triple tree. That big, flat area is what gets drilled out. That area won't get any frontal spray because it's well behind the front tupperware and it's angle just enough that it probably won't get much of anything downward, either.

I ride in the rain quite a bit, and that area only seems to get dirty, but not wet.

--Mark

[okmurdog]

I opted to keep the inner cowls intact as much as possible and take as little material out for looks and stability. I cut a 3.5" slot then melted and formed the cowl to create an air scoop type of detail. Unless you know what your looking for, the mod isn't obvious, it looks factory and seems to work great.

Dave
:biker:


If I were to mod my cowl, this is the way I would do it. Nice & clean

I have ridden in temps from 25 °F to 107 °F, and the only time I seem to notice the heat from the bike is when the ambient air temperature is in the 80's. So far, the heat 'issue' hasn't been an issue for me.

[bayoubear]

maybe those that notice the heat problem just have the flux capacitor turned up to high ?