Glucosamine

[zombiebritts]

Anyone have any experiences with this ?

I have started taking it to try to reduce some of the pain in my knees and hips. My hips are the most bothersome as they are always sore with a sharp pain if I twist/turn just right. I almost dropped the ST last season because of that pain. The occurrences are coming more often now and I worry about being able to ride this coming season. A trip to my GP got the great words of wisdom "You may have been to hard on them in the past" .

Anyone got some real words of wisdom ?

[dond]

Works for me. I started taking gluosamine/chondroitin a few years ago and within 2 weeks noticed some improvement. STill had too much discomfort to continue riding with my feet below or behind my butt.Switched bike STyles and doing well.
A couple of months ago I STopped the suppliments just to see if they really worked. They do! Whether placebo or not the discomfort increased within a week and seemed more intense than before...Especially (in my case) my finger joints.

I have had joint problems for much of my life and at 62 it 'tain't getting any worse. I spent 30 years climbing poles and doing heavy conSTruction and a few years in amateur level MC racing. Pain in hips, knees when riding and fingers always.

Another help has been the addition of omega 3 and 6 into my diet through suppliments. Better skin and I swear my hair is a bit thicker :cool: .
I haven't had a cold or any flu in over 5 years so I'm STicking with my regimen.

Regular joint exersise helps too, the Arthritis Foundation has some good ones to use.

I do some basic range of motion STuff right before I saddle up for a long day and that helps.

I can relate to your pain and wish you well.

[Randy Wolfe]

I have taken it in the past for knee(s) pain. I took it for about 4 months and I could not tell that it had any effect - positive or negative. I believe that I took it long enough to be in my system. What helps me the most is warmer / dryer Spring weather. I know a few people who claim that it works for them, but I am apparently not one of them. My best treatment seems to be keeping my knees warm with knee pads at work or occasionally wearing a neoprene knee brace. I OCCASIONALLY take Ibuprofen for relief when it's bad, but I don't like taking any kind of medication.
Glucosamine might work for you and if your GP suggests trying it, it could be worthwhile. I hope you find a means of relief.

[hawkeyeST]

Anyone have any experiences with this ?

I have started taking it to try to reduce some of the pain in my knees and hips. My hips are the most bothersome as they are always sore with a sharp pain if I twist/turn just right. I almost dropped the ST last season because of that pain. The occurrences are coming more often now and I worry about being able to ride this coming season. A trip to my GP got the great words of wisdom "You may have been to hard on them in the past" .

Anyone got some real words of wisdom ?My (73 year old) mother swears by the stuff. She has arthritis and fibromyalgia. My doc told me to not bother with the expensive brand name glucosamine formulas and just buy the cheap generic stuff. In never tried it personally because retirement solved all my joint pain issues. :)

[sherob]

My wife is a Diabetes Educator(and a RN), and this is one of those supplements that can cause problems for diabetics ;) Saying that...

Glucosamine and chondroitin taken alone or together does offer help for some people... it seems chondroitin offers the most help though.

You may give it a whirl... but like she says, you have to check with your Physician... he knows what meds you are currently taking and what your medical history is ;)

[Medicine Bear]

I think the jury is still out but I think it worked for me. I used to have to climb 70 steps to work 3 or 4 times a day before I retired and I could definitely tell the difference. However, I took it for about 6 weeks before I could feel any effects. My therapist recommended I take it when I broke my leg and I'm into the 6th week or so. My knee used to hurt but doesn't anymore. I don't know if it's the G/C or the therapy or just a coincidence but the timing is about right. I buy the Equate brand from Wally World as it's cheaper. YMMV.

Fred :03biker: :confused:

[Putt]

This ain't exactly an affirmation for Glucosamine,/chondroitin,
but it sure worked for my dog... The old gal is getting a bit old and
her hips were starting to bother her.. Had her on a half of an aspirin
a day (which she tolerates very well), and that made a difference.. Asked
the Vet about the G/C, and he said, "It wont hurt, and it may/maynot help"
It did.. the combination of aspirin and G/C made a world of difference for her..


Putt...

[Uncle Phil]

I have a lot of joint pain (after 9 orthopedic corrective surgeries from abuses of my youth) and have tried both supplements (Wally World variety) for a year. They did not seem to have much effect for me. For grins, I switched to Osteo Bi-Flex (higher priced spread) and it does seem to be helping after about 1 month. I also am taking omega-3 fish oil which is supposed to also help with arthritis and lower your cholesterol (which it did significantly lower my cholesterol). YMMV.

[STingray]

My (73 year old) mother swears by the stuff. She has arthritis and fibromyalgia. My doc told me to not bother with the expensive brand name glucosamine formulas and just buy the cheap generic stuff. In never tried it personally because retirement solved all my joint pain issues. :)

Zombie, +1 on what Rob says. And if you REALLY want to go cheap, you can get/use the base element of glucosamine: gelatin. I got terrible hip pains and knee pains some years ago. Talked to a couple of "holistic" type of doctors about it, and they just smiled and nodded, gelatin does the same thing as the expensive regimens. I just got 1# bags of the stuff at a restaurant supply store ($7). Takes about 6-8 weeks for you to notice *IF* it's going to work for you.

It doesn't work for everybody, because #1- we're all a little 'different', and #2- our bodies will metabolize things at different rates, etc. I just stirred in a tablespoon of gelatin in a glass of high-calcium orange juice each day. Worked great for me and others I know.

Now, that said, there is a "caveat lector" here: If you are prone to uric acid kidney stones or gout, you want to limit your intake of glucosamine, as it is a protein and your body processes it that way (if you have either of these maladies, you will know why you need to avoid the stuff).

Also, once your body has gotten and used all it can use to rebuild your connective tissue, it's a good idea to reduce your intake, or even stop, because it's not going to do you any more good, except in the rare case that your arthritis is in an advanced stage. And, it helps only OSTEO arthritis. Rheumatoid arthritis isn't helped by glucosamine.

No, I'm not a doctor (but I play one on TV....:crackup )...No, this is just stuff that I learned when I was going through all the "fun". Hope someone can put it to good use, and hope you feel better soon!

[drmedak]

My wife is a Diabetes Educator(and a RN), and this is one of those supplements that can cause problems for diabetics ;) Saying that...

Glucosamine and chondroitin taken alone or together does offer help for some people... it seems chondroitin offers the most help though.

You may give it a whirl... but like she says, you have to check with your Physician... he knows what meds you are currently taking and what your medical history is ;)

+1 Sherob (or his wife) gets a gold star! You might notice that the first half of the word Glucosamine is "glucose." It can cause blood sugar problems with people with more brittle diabetes.

The question to ask is why do I need glucosamine? Short answer: Generally because you eat too much sugar and refined carbohydrates...or in other words, the American diet.

A lot of joint pain is greatly reduced by something as simple as correcting the diet. The problem is patient compliance. It's easier to just have patients take glucosamine than trying to get them to change dietary habits.

This is a good place to start to see if you have carbohydrate intolerance: Two Week Test (http://users.bandzoogle.com/cippianhotmail/files/2weektest.pdf)

Long answer: An alternative to the Two Week Test, and probably even better way to jumpstart yourself after the Holidays is a 4-week ketogenic diet. This is what they use at Johns Hopkins University to treat patients with seizure disorders. For 4 weeks you eat no more than 25 grams of carbohydrate per day and eat nothing with a glycemic index over 55...that's about it. It's not easy, but it is very effective in getting borderline blood sugar problems to come back into balance. After 4 weeks you'll need to go the pharmacy and get some keto-sticks. Then you increase your carbohydrate 5mg every 2nd day until you stop throwing ketones in your urine. That's the amount of carbs you are able to efficiently process in a given day. Simply stay at/around/under that. Pretty simple, but it requires some patient-participation. Which is why it's easier to tell you to go get a bottle of glucosamine:D

PS: If you want to lose some weight after the holidays or as a New Year's Resolution, the 4-Week Ketogenic Diet is about the best way to go about it that I know of. It gets you off the insulin-cortisol roller-coaster very quickly...

Oh, almost forgot..added in edit...another common cause of joint pain is food allergies, especially those to wheat, barley, spelt, rye, quinoa, kamut, or more specifically, gliadin containing grains. Which means if you are allergic or sensitive to those foods, you also have to avoid....gulp......Beer. I am sensitive to grains myself, so I know about what I write. I haven't eaten anything with wheat in it for a year and a half, nor have I had a beer in that time. My blood pressure went down to normal and the small amount of joint pain and stiffness I had also went away, just from eliminating grains. YMMV!!

Oh, oh...almost forgot this too...added in 2nd edit...stomach problems can cause joint problems. When proper protein digestion is short-circuited by taking acid-blocking medication or insufficient hydrochloric acid production, your body will use the available protein wherever it can find it. Your joint fluid contains a very high concentration of protein, so protein metabolism problems will sometimes present as joint pain in a hip, shoulder or knee. I've seen it in my practice and corrected it by correcting the digestion.

Ok, to summarize since I've rambled on so long...sugar metabolism, food allergies, liver/gall bladder congestion, or stomach-related digestive problems are the leading causes of significant joint pain I see in my practice. Dietary changes such as a two or four week restriction of carbs or a 21 day liver purification (detox) have been very helpful....FWIW, YMMV, etc. When in doubt, I'd recommend consulting a licensed physician.

Jim

[STBNE]

My experience with Glucosamine and Chondroitin has been very favorable.I have one knee that has been a constant problem for abt 10 years.After consulting some friends who reccommended the stuff...I tried it and it just works.My sore and swollen knee that I could not fully flex was free of all discomforts.I was told that it is not an immediate cure and it would take a minimum of 30 days before any effects can be felt....SURE ENOUGH...after my first bottle of the stuff...30 days I felt a tremendous improvement...now I take it almost daily to maintain the levels in my body.Since this stuff is not naturally produced by the body,you must maintain the levels.If you stop taking it eventually your old symptoms will return..I know cause i've been taking this stuff for abt 2 years now....when trying this stuff above all be patient it will work.There will be days where you think you are taking this stuff for nothing and your pain is not getting any better...trust me ...it will.:D ;) You have nothing to lose but a few bucks...give it a try for a month and see if it doesnt work for you....YMMV

[BridgeMan]

I've tried the glucosamine-chondroitin, with and without sulphates, and it didn't seem to have any effect in preventing the joints from stiffening up (was on several different brands for more than a year). I have trouble in the hips, ankles and knees--far too many miles riding a bicycle (around Lake Michigan, 300-mi. weekends, etc.) in my earlier years. I'm lucky in that none of the pain is unbearable, just a "heavy" stiffness, especially after sitting in one position for a while. And I've also been a brittle Type I diabetic for 45 years, that's the one treated by poking holes in my stomach and thighs, for the insulin. Every day is a blessing.

[John Anthony]

Maggie and I are both on it. Two tabs, twice a day in my case along with an NSAID. Still have some arthritis in my left thumb, but the rest of me is in reasonably good shape. YMMV.

Good luck.

John

[Biddyman]

Everything I've read said 60 days to get into your system and to start working.

[STingray]

Bridgeman and others: Aside from the benefits of glucosamine, stiffness and joint pain can be moderated by a good stretching program. You'd be surprised to learn how joints act/react to connective tissue that is stressed and/or tight, especially the back.

Since back surgery in '92, I've done a simple (15-30 minute, depending on how much a hurry I'm in) stretching routine each work day. I'm more limber and suffer less joint pain than people many years my junior. And allowing your joints to move properly and be supported properly by your muscles is a huge key to less joint pain.

And, if you can avoid it, do NOT take pain killers of any kind when you expect to be active! Our bodies "talk" to us. When there's pain, there's something wrong. If we silence our body's "voice" we tend to cause further damage. It was illustrated to me by a doctor this way: "taking pain killers is like - if the oil light comes on in your car, and you pull over and open the hood and cut the wire to the oil light. It doesn't fix the problem, just hides it". I have been advised to take pain killers just before going to bed, then they have time (and a inactive body) to really work well.

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, but maybe the info will help somebody.:)

[cmguerrero]

I take two(2) liquid Advils before every ride and let me tell you that it always works every time... really! I kid you not!!!

[Lou65]

MSM is also a good anti-inflammatory and can be taken with
G & C. It is inexpensive ($30.00 for 500 capsules at www.bulkmsm.com) and has many other benefits like digestion and elimination...I have been taking 5 capsules
twice a day for years with no side effects. The Calm Cream
at the same location is also a good topical application of the
same Sulfur based compound....

[zombiebritts]

Wow ... Good stuff people. Thank You. Keep it coming. To respond to everyone , I will generalized it.

- My aches and pains are from past abuses and accidents. Dirt bikes , falling off ladders etc.
- I do not have a diabetic problem. I eat a pretty good balanced diet.
- No blood pressure problems 110/75.
- My bad Cholesterol is low (I think diet is responsible)
- My good Cholesterol is kinda low ( need more exercise ) IT Zombies never find the time ;)

- I am trying the Equate Gluc/Cond tablets from Wally World. 1 per day for now.
- I prefer to only use Advil/Tylenol when I really have to. Advil Liquigels are my friend (for that odd migrane) so I try to not get used to them.

Again , thank you for the wealth of info. :bow1:

This really is the best site on the 'net !

[Bones]

My 13 year old Lab has shown noticeable improvement (less stiffness, return to puppy-like play, EVEN HUNGRIER!!) since we started glucosamine and aspirin (one each twice a day).

[Dketchum]

+1 Sherob (or his wife) gets a gold star! You might notice that the first half of the word Glucosamine is "glucose." It can cause blood sugar problems with people with more brittle diabetes.

The question to ask is why do I need glucosamine? Short answer: Generally because you eat too much sugar and refined carbohydrates...or in other words, the American diet.

A lot of joint pain is greatly reduced by something as simple as correcting the diet. The problem is patient compliance. It's easier to just have patients take glucosamine than trying to get them to change dietary habits.

This is a good place to start to see if you have carbohydrate intolerance: Two Week Test (http://users.bandzoogle.com/cippianhotmail/files/2weektest.pdf)

Long answer: An alternative to the Two Week Test, and probably even better way to jumpstart yourself after the Holidays is a 4-week ketogenic diet. This is what they use at Johns Hopkins University to treat patients with seizure disorders. For 4 weeks you eat no more than 25 grams of carbohydrate per day and eat nothing with a glycemic index over 55...that's about it. It's not easy, but it is very effective in getting borderline blood sugar problems to come back into balance. After 4 weeks you'll need to go the pharmacy and get some keto-sticks. Then you increase your carbohydrate 5mg every 2nd day until you stop throwing ketones in your urine. That's the amount of carbs you are able to efficiently process in a given day. Simply stay at/around/under that. Pretty simple, but it requires some patient-participation. Which is why it's easier to tell you to go get a bottle of glucosamine:D

PS: If you want to lose some weight after the holidays or as a New Year's Resolution, the 4-Week Ketogenic Diet is about the best way to go about it that I know of. It gets you off the insulin-cortisol roller-coaster very quickly...

Oh, almost forgot..added in edit...another common cause of joint pain is food allergies, especially those to wheat, barley, spelt, rye, quinoa, kamut, or more specifically, gliadin containing grains. Which means if you are allergic or sensitive to those foods, you also have to avoid....gulp......Beer. I am sensitive to grains myself, so I know about what I write. I haven't eaten anything with wheat in it for a year and a half, nor have I had a beer in that time. My blood pressure went down to normal and the small amount of joint pain and stiffness I had also went away, just from eliminating grains. YMMV!!

Oh, oh...almost forgot this too...added in 2nd edit...stomach problems can cause joint problems. When proper protein digestion is short-circuited by taking acid-blocking medication or insufficient hydrochloric acid production, your body will use the available protein wherever it can find it. Your joint fluid contains a very high concentration of protein, so protein metabolism problems will sometimes present as joint pain in a hip, shoulder or knee. I've seen it in my practice and corrected it by correcting the digestion.

Ok, to summarize since I've rambled on so long...sugar metabolism, food allergies, liver/gall bladder congestion, or stomach-related digestive problems are the leading causes of significant joint pain I see in my practice. Dietary changes such as a two or four week restriction of carbs or a 21 day liver purification (detox) have been very helpful....FWIW, YMMV, etc. When in doubt, I'd recommend consulting a licensed physician.

Jim


Thanks DOC! you hit it right on the head for me. 1 year ago I cut out all sugar, reduced carb intake by 80 percent and my blood pressure dropped (no meds now) my knees have no pain, ankle and hip discomfort are 95% reduced and I lost 35 lbs to boot!!!

The best benefit to me? No more digestive issues/off of acid reducers etc.

At almost 50 I feel better than I have in years (of course quitting smoking 4 years ago after a mild stroke has a lot to do with it too :rolleyes: )

Good advice!

[hojo in sc]

The Orthopedics here recommend it!

[Gonzo]

Glucosamine and Chondroitin works for me. After running 12 marathons and getting old, my knees seemed like bone-on-bone when I run. However, by taking this stuff, the cartilage seems to have built up between my bones and cushions the impact.

gonzo

[UNTMatt]

It seems to work for some and not for others. There is also a couple of different forumula's on the market so one may work better than the others for you. We tried it for our dogs that have joint issues and it didn't seem to be doing much other than drain our pocketbook.

That stuff is expensive.

[wjbertrand]

I believe the stuff works. My sister and I both blew out our left posterior medial meniscus at about the same time (genetics?) Anyway, she went for the meniscal surgery and I went on a therapy approach using the glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate, ibuprofen, ice/heat, mild stretching/range of motion exercises and have so far avoided the surgery. About a year and half later, my discomfort level is probably a little better than my sisters. My doctor, who originally thought I would need the surgery now says "it's hard to argue with success". I buy the two caplet a day doses from Costco at about $22 for 170 tabs:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11004978&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US&s=1

The other evidence is our old dog (now departed). When we started giving her dog food with glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate in it I think we bought her another year or so before her back end fully collapsed and she had to be put down. Still makes me cry though......

[UNTMatt]

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11004978&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US&s=1


That is the exact product we were giving our dogs and it didn't seem to help. Maybe it works for some joint issues and not others but the vet recommended we put our dogs on it. Didn't seem to do anything so we stopped after two bottles of the stuff.

Have a little of the third bottle left...maybe I should take it and see if it works for me.

[Highway Troll]

Throw another vote in the works for me catagory.
After a complete knee rebuild courtesy of the grill of a Toyota.
I started with it and whenever I stop I feel stiff after a few days.

[zombiebritts]

Update: The glucosamine/condroitin is helping a bit on the hip , but the knee hasn't caught on yet.

I have been to see the docs and the specialists. The docs say its not arthritis , lose 60 lbs , see the bone specialists. The specialists say lose 60 lbs , it might straighten out your knee which is crooked , not meeting square.

Its looks like I will be putting the 2003 up for sale when the snow melts. I was sitting on my friends and it was painful .

Thanks for the good words .

Glen

[John Anthony]

How 'bout droppin' the weight and working on a little flexibility program first. Hate to see something as drastic as losing your ST! In my book, that would be even more painful.

Good luck whatever you do.

John

[polaris1944]

Hey John, I used to use it and it does seem to work, however it will take several weeks to see an effect. I had to stop using it because of a stomach problem

[Lou65]

+1 on gluosamine/chondroitin....popular for rebuilding cartledge..works for most

another good anti-inflammatory is MSM (www.bulkmsm.com)...it is natural plant based sulphur and a metabolite of DMSO ....very inexpensive $30/500 and has a host of other benefits...I have been taking 5 capsules twice a day for years and %*((()%$#@@!!!! LOCK HAWEZ GOD EM DOOOINE!

[jdaniels]

Anyone have any experiences with this ?

I have started taking it to try to reduce some of the pain in my knees and hips. My hips are the most bothersome as they are always sore with a sharp pain if I twist/turn just right. I almost dropped the ST last season because of that pain. The occurrences are coming more often now and I worry about being able to ride this coming season. A trip to my GP got the great words of wisdom "You may have been to hard on them in the past" .

Anyone got some real words of wisdom ?

Personally for me it's like a gift from the Gods.I take 3 per day and 6 tylinol per day just to keep even.Without it joint pain is unbearable.My cousin who is a year younger than me gets absolutely no benefit from the stuff.So.... I guess it just depends on the individual whether it'll work or not.

[Mark]

Losing 60 lbs will make more of a difference in your life than just being able to ride.

If you're carrying 60lbs (go look at 60lbs of lard at the grocery store!!!) you are *really* doing some damage to more than just your knees...

---
Thanks for the lesson on the "4-week ketogenic diet" too!

Mark

[DaBear]

My knees were destroyed in the Army, and I have a permanent back injury from the postal service, but what has helped me the most is stretching, and simple yoga. I was amazed at the difference, especially given that I have a body type that makes Buddha look like a Bowflex model.

[STBNE]

While I do not profess to being any sort of medical expert..common sense says that no one thing will be a cure all.A combination of other factors have to be accounted for in your specific case.Losing weight..60 lbs is significant...strecthing and yoga are excellent in and of themseves for the relaxation..plus the continuation of the Chondroitin/Glucoseamine regimen.A highly aerobic low impact workout with some weight training thrown in will help you lose the weight...portion control and eating healthier should also be a factor.The more wholistic the approach the better balanced you will be.Strecthing not only alleviates muscle soreness but helps you to maintain the gains in muscle strength and tone.The better your muscle tone the better your body alignment and posture will be.

[planetoldchild]

I'm over 50 - I've hit the road twice at 70mph and after 2 ta' 3 months you will thank the "BIG" guy for Glucosamine.