Camping just to save money - not a good idea

[Ripshod]

I've read a few posts from people who want to save money on the road. I'd recommend you think long and hard about that.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from camping, but I'd just like to point out that in my experience, if you're camping to save money you might be disappointed. In the short run you probably will save a few bucks but if you aren't camping because you like to camp, sooner or later a time will come when it isn't worth it. Just remember that there will be times when, going down the road after packing in the rain or trying to sleep next to an RV with its generator running all night, you'll ride by a cheap motel and curse the fact that, for just a few more bucks, you could have slept in a real bed and had a nice hot shower.

In the long run, saving money alone is not the best primary motivation for camping out. First of all, the gear you'll need is not cheap. Second, you might find yourself paying more than you'd like for just a cemetery plot sized spot to pitch your tent in the dirt. Ya gotta love it because sometimes, no matter how well-equipped you are, it's going to have a sucky side. If you do it because you like it, you won't be disappointed even when it turns from adventure to ordeal.

Again, I'm not trying to dissuade anyone. I highly recommend camping, either with minimalist gear or all-out luxury trailer camping. I love to camp as much as I love to ride so a motorcycle camping trip is just about the best way I can spend my time. Having said that, there are times when I relent and motel it because experience tells me I'll be better off that way. After all, we're grownups with credit cards and if we camp because we want to, not because we have to, and we know there's no shame in renting a room to avoid a little misery, it keeps our spirits up and makes the time on the road a lot more pleasant. That's all I'm saying.

[STCPO]

I don't know a lot of folks who camp to save money. That's just like saying riding a motorcycle saves you money. Sure it may get better gas mileage but then you have the maintenance required to keep it going. Even if you do the maintenance yourself, time is still money.

I know I like to camp just because I enjoy the freedom. Even if that freedom includes waking up next to an RV that costs more than my house.

Ride safe.

Pete

[Bones]

Camp because you like to camp. Best reason of all.

:cf1:

[alphafang]

My sleeping bag has only ever had me sleep in it that's a big plus one for camping against cheap motels in my book.
Thats all I'm saying;)

[st11ray]

I usually travel with my wife on the ST and it is really hard to carry everything for camping. And there is no way I'm gonna pull a trailer with the ST!
I agree that you had better like to camp instead of just trying to save money.
But I'm pretty lucky because my wife accrues enough points for us to stay in nice hotels for free!!

[Dketchum]

I camp because i enjoy it and it saves me money...

I generally camp at KOA's or other type campgrounds...I get clean nice facilities, laundry, hot showers, usually pool and or hot tub...most times there is cooked food avail/always a camp store. I have a KOA card and get discounts and free stays. Every KOA has always welcomed motorcycles/motorcyclists..there have been occasions where I might rent a camping cabin; in very very hot area's, or real severe weather.

Rarely can one find a sanitary/comfortable motel room for the price of a comfortable campground/spot. I would say my average campground cost is around $16.00...that includes hot showers/laundry facilities etc.

I know I couldn't afford my 3 week cross country trips without camping.

Camping is NOT for everyone.

[georgiast]

Weeellll,

It bears repeating! :D


SORRY DONT KNOW WHY THIS WENT UP TWICE HELP PLEASE MODS >>THANKYOU
My sleeping bag has only ever had me sleep in it that's a big plus one for camping against cheap motels in my book.
Thats all I'm saying

[AgSTreak]

BTW, 60 Minutes used the same equipment you see on CSI to prove that many times cheap motels are more sanitary than expensive ones. If my sleeping bag is dirty, its my filth and I have no one else to blame.:D

[Papa Bear]

I've read a few posts from people who want to save money on the road. I'd recommend you think long and hard about that.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from camping, but I'd just like to point out that in my experience, if you're camping to save money you might be disappointed. In the short run you probably will save a few bucks but if you aren't camping because you like to camp, sooner or later a time will come when it isn't worth it. Just remember that there will be times when, going down the road after packing in the rain or trying to sleep next to an RV with its generator running all night, you'll ride by a cheap motel and curse the fact that, for just a few more bucks, you could have slept in a real bed and had a nice hot shower.

In the long run, saving money alone is not the best primary motivation for camping out. First of all, the gear you'll need is not cheap. Second, you might find yourself paying more than you'd like for just a cemetery plot sized spot to pitch your tent in the dirt. Ya gotta love it because sometimes, no matter how well-equipped you are, it's going to have a sucky side. If you do it because you like it, you won't be disappointed even when it turns from adventure to ordeal.

Again, I'm not trying to dissuade anyone. I highly recommend camping, either with minimalist gear or all-out luxury trailer camping. I love to camp as much as I love to ride so a motorcycle camping trip is just about the best way I can spend my time. Having said that, there are times when I relent and motel it because experience tells me I'll be better off that way. After all, we're grownups with credit cards and if we camp because we want to, not because we have to, and we know there's no shame in renting a room to avoid a little misery, it keeps our spirits up and makes the time on the road a lot more pleasant. That's all I'm saying.

Amen brother!

PB

[CDNolddude]

I camp because i enjoy it and it saves me money...

I generally camp at KOA's or other type campgrounds...I get clean nice facilities, laundry, hot showers, usually pool and or hot tub...most times there is cooked food avail/always a camp store. I have a KOA card and get discounts and free stays. Every KOA has always welcomed motorcycles/motorcyclists..there have been occasions where I might rent a camping cabin; in very very hot area's, or real severe weather.

Rarely can one find a sanitary/comfortable motel room for the price of a comfortable campground/spot. I would say my average campground cost is around $16.00...that includes hot showers/laundry facilities etc.

I know I couldn't afford my 3 week cross country trips without camping.

Camping is NOT for everyone.

+1 DITTO! especially if travelling alone...
If I go with my buddy we camp 1/2 the time because we like to and motel it the other 1/2 depending on the weather..

[EASt]

My last two week ride converted me to KOA - I like them a lot now. That said, I tend to camp about 30% of the time when I'm on the road. I'll hole into a motel every now and then to catch up on the tube, make some calls, etc. Otherwise, I much prefer camping.

Sure, I've stayed in some obnoxious campgrounds, but when you land the perfect spot, and it's a great location in a quiet area... heck, I'd pay ten times the cost of a hotel to be out in the fresh air like that.

I've discovered that most campsites don't have a beef with two motorcycles on one tent-site, with two tents. They rarely charge more for it, either. When I ride with my buddy, we end up camping for about $10 a night (each) that way.

Oh, yeah: +1 on the sanitary sleeping bags!

[mjhenne]

Travel alone, pack a little food, camp at honor or free camp grounds, pay for your gas at the pump and you can go for days without talking to anyone.

And since you ask why do this - I'm married.

[gec343]

Travel alone, pack a little food, camp at honor or free camp grounds, pay for your gas at the pump and you can go for days without talking to anyone.

And since you ask why do this - I'm married.

Well said, my friend!:03biker:

[AZST]

I don't motorcyle camp to just save money. I take my gear to have the option.

When I went to WESTOC in Golden...I researched the route and campgrounds to death...made reservations at a campground in Utah (never trust a website-- the pictures online showed alot of activity) and thought I better make reservations. When I arrived, I was the only in the campground. Even the owners weren't there. :rolleyes:
Pitched the tent, dropped $10 in the mail slot and left the next morning. Didn't see another person the whole time I was there. (No, I didn't try to 'fish' the ten dollars out of the mail slot before I left-- although I considered it. )

I usually won't camp on the road more than two nights in a row. I just like the guarantee of a bed, hot shower and warm room.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
:04biker:

[VFR]

Bryan, where is this place. Maybe I can hit it either going or coming from WeSTOC or the ADVrider meet in Lake City CO in Aug.

Larry

[George]

I enjoy camping _because_ I save money. Actually, I don't camp, I sleep in a tent. There's a difference. Mac and others on this site actually camp.

[Highrider]

Camping offers options when travelling, for me it's not mandatory. Maybe it's me, but I usually feel more secure camping in a state park or public campground than parking my bike in the parking lot of a strange hotel / motel. A lot of places I like to ride, finding a room for the night is not an easy option.

[uptoblackwood]

I am probably about half way between George (sleep in a tent) and Mac (really a camper). It's not about saving money for me....seems like before every trip I spend money to buy things that make my camping more comfortable or better in some way or another. It's about being outside for me...

Forest

PS you know your in Mac's camping league when you pack AND USE cast iron fry pans and dutch ovens! AND always have food left over for the others in the camp group. (thanks Mac)

[AZST]

Bryan, where is this place. Maybe I can hit it either going or coming from WeSTOC or the ADVrider meet in Lake City CO in Aug.

Larry

Can't remember the name....but it was in Bluff....trust me, there's not much in Bluff, UT....should be easy to find.

Campground itself was not bad....very quiet....only about 4 tent sites.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
:04biker:

[Viggo]

I camp to save money. Well actually, I sleep in a tent to save money. No cooking or other real camping type stuff. Usually don't even have a fire. I don't really love camping but I don't mind it most of the time. I like to hit a cheap motel every few days for laundry and whatnot or if the weather is bad.

I can't disagree with your word of caution. If you aren't comfortable sleeping in a tent, it's not worth the money saved but I would have to travel a lot less if I stayed only in motels.

[VFR]

Thanks Bryan. That is close to where I was going anyway. Now all I have to do is remember it..... I'll do 163 to Monument Valley & Mexican Hat.

Larry

[UNTMatt]

I enjoy camping _because_ I save money. Actually, I don't camp, I sleep in a tent. There's a difference. Mac and others on this site actually camp.

That's what we are looking at...sleeping in a tent. Not camp.

It's really difficult for me to pick out a cheap hotel/motel that's worth a flip and the decent ones...well $80 - $120 per night. Even then, you're not guaranteed a decent hotel. The LaQuinta we were forced into in Little Rock, AR back in July sucked and was expensive but also was the only one with a room available in the immediate area.

[Don-STOC237]

If you're going to make a really long trip, say a month or more, and especially if you're going someplace with limited accommodations and really really high prices, say like, Alaska, and you're on a limited budget -- then you're going to be camping, or at least sleeping in a tent, not because you love the great outdoors, but because that's the only way you can afford it. And unless you reserve months in advance for every night, even if you can afford it you might not get rooms.

Try taking a trip in the summer up there sometime without making most of your motel reservations in advance, you'll see what I mean.

Oh, and don't forget your tent and sleeping bag if you go. :D :D

[AZST]

Thanks Bryan. That is close to where I was going anyway. Now all I have to do is remember it..... I'll do 163 to Monument Valley & Mexican Hat.

Larry

I recalled the name of the campground. The campground is called Cottonwood Campground. The other one that I saw (a few hundreds yards up the road) was called Cadillac Ranch (not a brothel--remember, it's Utah)

Both seemed to cater to RVs but both have a couple of tent sites.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
:04biker:

[VFR]

Thanks. I'm going by AAA & get some campground books. The maps show a teepee but no info.... Are you up for WeSTOC? Maybe we can hook up for a ride over or back. I'll probably stop by a friend's place in Tucson or Benson either going or coming. Nothing even close to a definite plan yet.....

Larry

[crinteastwood]

I tent to save money, but also just to have the fresh air and the ability to be able to sit around the fire at night and reflect back on the days ride - I can sit in a room at home and watch TV anytime. If you want to be on your own or if you want to make new aquaintences, then a campground is the place to be - a motel room offers only one of those options. A trip into town, a sub, or a sit down meal, a good book and watch the sun go down - it sure beats sitting in the local Super 8 and watching reruns of CSI. We have camped all over western Canada and the NW USA and treasure the memories and the friendships that we made along the way - people just seem to be friendlier when enjoying nature.
Just my 2 cents.
Mick:tent3:

[Tor]

Not camping (I dont care what the weather is doing) takes away half (at least) the experience out of the trip, IMO. Nothing beats sitting around a campfire at night chatting about anything and everything. Nothing beats firing up your MSR and get a good cup of cowboy coffee on a cold morning.

So yes, we'll be motorcycle camping until the day arrives where I've got so much arthritis that I cant get out of the tent opening w/o help.

[Finewest]

I've been doing camping most, if not all, my life, be it backpacking then bike-camping, and the one thing that still makes me get a motel is THE TOLIET!!! Man! It is a serious "beach" to have to wake up in the middle of the night and have to go, not mention the early morning doldrums too! Of couse that cozy bed with HBO has my name written all over it, but it's the 'ol loo that beckons my Visa!

[TPadden]

.....its the 'ol loo that beckons my Visa!

Never heard of Wendy's,BK, MC'D's, and Wal-Mart????? - always clean, warm, and you don't need that Visa.......

.....about every third night I look for a KOA, again clean, warm facilities that include a shower .......;)

Tom

[Klackey]

I just gave tenting a try last weekend in Joshua Tree NP and had a good time. Cost for the night $10! I had most of the stuff already so this was a very cheap way to spend time in the area and see new things. I even got several invitations to share the camp fire with several people who walked over to say "hi". This was a good experience......... even if it was a cold morning. I think this will allow me to see way more of the country as it is way cheaper then a room.

[Finewest]

I just gave tenting a try last weekend in Joshua Tree NP and had a good time. Cost for the night $10! I had most of the stuff already so this was a very cheap way to spend time in the area and see new things. I even got several invitations to share the camp fire with several people who walked over to say "hi". This was a good experience......... even if it was a cold morning. I think this will allow me to see way more of the country as it is way cheaper then a room.

My very favorite time during camping and the one that makes it all worth while is the night skies! Oh man! Those stars! Life in the center of the universe! What grandeur!

[the_gr8t_waldo]

if i'm trying to do a lot of miles then it's motels! if on the other hand i'm ready to settle in before the sun sets, and i feel i can safely travel on the back roads, i hunt out a spot that's really out and away from every thing and body. no fees, and i get to pick the spot i want. i always seem to find a beautiful spot. to keep the peace i never build a fire!... one draw back with camping is that untill you get into the routine you're not going to be getting a very restful night..something to consider when controling a bike at speed.

[KrazyKooter]

...and i feel i can safely travel on the back roads, i hunt out a spot that's really out and away from every thing and body. no fees, and i get to pick the spot i want.

One of my favorite camping spots was off some county road somewhere between Cannon City and Pueblo in Colorado. I pulled off the road near two big cedar trees along a fence line. I was able to park the bike (the Sportster) under one tree and set up my small dome tent under the other. Good thing I set the tent up, it rained pretty good that night. Looking back, maybe it wasn't too good of an idea to set up under a tree due to the lightning, but that seemed to stay in the mountain tops. It looked really cool when the lightning lit up the sky and I could see the silhouettes of the mountains. I got a pretty good rest that night.

The one thing I don't like about camping is packing up the next morning. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've just laid down on a picnic table at State or National parks.

[UNTMatt]

My very favorite time during camping and the one that makes it all worth while is the night skies! Oh man! Those stars! Life in the center of the universe! What grandeur!

I corrected it:

My very favorite time during camping and the one that makes it all worth while is the hot showers in the hotel room! Oh man! The hot water! Life in the center of a big king size bed and a pizza delivered to my room with my wife by my side! What grandeur!

[Finewest]

I corrected it:

My very favorite time during camping and the one that makes it all worth while is the hot showers in the hotel room! Oh man! The hot water! Life in the center of a big king size bed and a pizza delivered to my room with my wife by my side! What grandeur!

DUH! ;)

[Orange Power]

I almost always arrange my route to stop at KOAs that have Kabins (most do).
I have their discount card.

The Kabins usually have a full bed and 2 bunks. My riding buddy and I split the cost. Comes out about $20 each/night.

Not as nice as a nice motel.
A whole lot nicer than a bad motel.
A lot cheaper than either and you still get the outdoors camping feeling plus nice shower/toilet facilities and usually a breakfast.

KOA.com lets you plan in advance.

[George]

Many times I've pulled over at a wide spot and just spread the bag on the ground. Wait til late, leave early, never a hassle. That's _cheap._

[VFR]

Many times I've pulled over at a wide spot and just spread the bag on the ground. Wait til late, leave early, never a hassle. That's _cheap._


I've done that too, but it was a long time ago. Can you still do that? Probably have to be much more careful about where you stop.

Larry

[George]

I've done that too, but it was a long time ago. Can you still do that? Probably have to be much more careful about where you stop.

Larry

The only trick is to be out of sight. I usually pull into a field behind a hedge, something like that. Also, far enuff off the main road to avoid traffic. I like little side dirt access roads for comm. towers, little chance of anyone headed there at night.

I _don't_ like rest stop picnic tables when I'm traveling alone.

[Don-STOC237]

I've done a lot of camping out of canoes, and some solo camping off the bike (not a lot). Usually stayed in state park campgrounds or USFS CG's.

So I have a question: If you're traveling with two or three other riders, do private campgrounds usually let you put multiple small tents on one site or do they make each person pay for a separate site? Or what?

[TPadden]

...So I have a question: If you're traveling with two or three other riders, do private campgrounds usually let you put multiple small tents on one site or do they make each person pay for a separate site? Or what?

Whether solo or not I never give them a chance to say - I make an offer first . At private (mostly RV parks) other than KOA when solo I just say $10 for a motorcycle tent camper, no hook-up or anything and 90% of the time they say OK; in a group I'll say $20-30 ($5/ head) for a group of QUIET motorcycle tent campers with the same results.:)

Tom

[Don-STOC237]

Good idea, thanks!

[acedantinne]

My sleeping bag has only ever had me sleep in it that's a big plus one for camping against cheap motels in my book.
Thats all I'm saying;)

Ever watch the FBI show on the tube? when it was on? Any way. They had the sheets from a motel checked for DNA. murder case. 1 set of sheets had 82 seamen hits.
Wife from now on we are bring are own. This we do.
me I camp when I can. On a long trip ever 3rd day stay room if found with in reason.

[BlaSTr]

I've been doing camping most, if not all, my life, be it backpacking then bike-camping, and the one thing that still makes me get a motel is THE TOLIET!!! Man! It is a serious "beach" to have to wake up in the middle of the night and have to go, not mention the early morning doldrums too! Of couse that cozy bed with HBO has my name written all over it, but it's the 'ol loo that beckons my Visa!

ROFL :crackup

Here's my thinking:

For me, I choose to camp in order to (1) moderate costs, (2) find a place to sleep that's convenient, and (3) let me enjoy the quiet and beauty of something disappearing fast.

(1) In researching this summers 6-week ride on the far west side of the Mississippi I realized that motel rooms would average $45/night, public campgrounds $18/night, and National park and federal recreational land pass $80/year. My basic gear (tent, footprint, bag, mattress, stove, cook gear, and misc stuff) will cost me about $700. I'll be living away from the porcelain potty for about 35 days so camping out will cost me $20/day for the stuff I bought. If I stayed in motels for those days I'd spend $1575. Staying in campgrounds (half National and half private) would cost me $404. My math says that I would come out $471 ahead by camping it. That's about 100 gallons of gas and about 4000 miles of twistys. Seems like a good start. And when I get back, all that expensive camping/tenting stuff will be paid for.

Will I do the entire 35 days tenting it? Probably not but (2) finding a place to stay is not going to be as easy in the areas I'll be traveling. From Texas west to Arizona and north to Canada are some fantastic roads, incredible scenery, and a severe lack of amenities. Some of the small towns are better known for having gas than accomodations. Or food. My choice of riding locations is predicated by scenery, twisties, and uncrowded highways. Sure I'll be visiting the tourist magnets but a hotel there is way more than $45/night (and so is a campsite - unless it's a NP site), but my research indicates the motel cost increase in those areas is far more than the increased cost in campgrounds.

I am not interested in TV much. I don't care one whit about Britny's situation, if Angelina's going to have twins, or if Tom will jump Oprah's sofa again. I've seen none of these actually happen but the headlines on the rags at the checkout counter seem to think they're important. It would be nice to have a loooooong hot shower occasionally, a bed I don't have to inflate and fluff, no threat of snakes, scorpions, bears, or racoons in the middle of the night, and yes, AC when it's hot enough to keep snakes in the shade; but I want that as an option not a given. I want to see sunrises and sunsets, see the satellites pass overhead a the light of day passes to the brilliance of the night sky, have the freedom to pull over 'cuz this'd be a perfect spot to end the day, and meet and have the time to interact with some fantastic and interesting folks. And knowing me, if I'm in a cold motel room I won't be out walking around, chatting with the locals, or lying on my back looking at the night sky and hearing the night time sounds.

Maybe the decision whether to camp, tent, or Motel 6 it should be predicated on where you're traveling, who you're traveling companion(s) are, and what your preferences are. For me, it seems that camping or tenting enriches the experience far more than catching the Red Sox - Yankee rivalry. But for the Sox, I'll idle a while at the local watering hole or restaurant.

ymmv

[Finewest]

...I want to see sunrises and sunsets, see the satellites pass overhead a the light of day passes to the brilliance of the night sky, have the freedom to pull over 'cuz this'd be a perfect spot to end the day, and meet and have the time to interact with some fantastic and interesting folks. And knowing me, if I'm in a cold motel room I won't be out walking around, chatting with the locals, or lying on my back looking at the night sky and hearing the night time sounds...

ymmv

The exact reasons why I still "rough it". Good call! :clap2:

[st1300honda]

When touring in the USA I tend to stay in hotels/motels as they are marginally more in price (most places) and have a T.V., wireless Internet. No real savings for me.

When in Canada, forget it. A cheap Comfort Inn costs $125-$150 per night depending on where you are. Sure there are a handful below $100/night but you can't count on it when travelling.

:biker:

[Buzz]

With camping gear, I don't worry about having a place to sleep at the end of the day. Motels get full at peak times and I don't like to reserve ahead. Like to be on my schedule and the flexibility that camping offers...

[c-lapier]

I enjoy camping at rallies, but will often hotel it for a night on the way; putting the tent up/down for only one night can be a pain. My one rule on all my M/C trips is to avoid chain restraunts<except for Dairy Queen>.

[crinteastwood]

I remember last year after a long days ride - laying in my sleeping bag, enjoying the fresh and cool night air, just about to fall asleep, staring up at the stars and wondering - who stole my tent?
Mick

[Grantizzle]

My one rule on all my M/C trips is to avoid chain restraunts<except for Dairy Queen>.

that's my take on it too. i wanna take in the local culture and people befroe i return back home.

[Finewest]

I generally agree with this about restaurants, but on a budget it's hard to pass up on the $5.95 Grand Slam! LOL.

[Grantizzle]

but there are a lot of local places that will give you a better breakfast for the same price.

ma and pa places are awesome.

[BluRider]

Last sept I took a 19 day 7k mile ride about from seattle to the midwest and back. No planned route or reservations. The plan was to camp if not raining. I often found it difficult to find campgrounds. KOA's were often full or only $10 cheaper than a motel 6. I guess I should have planned better and researched campgrounds in advance. I did camp some but motels were sure nice.

[UNTMatt]

Many times I've pulled over at a wide spot and just spread the bag on the ground. Wait til late, leave early, never a hassle. That's _cheap._

I might have to give that a go when I'm on my own just to see how it goes. I think we will enjoy the tent thing once we get all the kinks worked out. Just the first few go arounds will have a learning curve on what to do and what not to do.

KOA's were often full or only $10 cheaper than a motel 6. I guess I should have planned better and researched campgrounds in advance. I did camp some but motels were sure nice.

When I checked the KOA in Kerrville it was $28/night for non-KOA cardholders for two adults. What is the Motel 6 charging? When I checked, Motel 6 was running $66/night for two adults. Maybe the price difference isn't as large when there's only one adult to house?

I'm just not seeing where staying in a hotel is as cost effective as sleeping in a tent. Some of the less expensive hotels I wonder about the part of town they are in or how clean the rooms really are. Last thing we need is gear full of bed bugs. *ack!*

[MeanST]

Camping is part of the.....................adventure for me. Save a few bucks usually. I am a 50/50 guy.

The only thing I can think of to justify stumbling around with four score minus one plumbing is ..........

http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/40949/2427281430099738507S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2427281430099738507IGazIo)

Room with a view
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1181146186/med_gallery_2144_2004_1727519.jpg

http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/3726/2518349980099738507S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2518349980099738507pzqxaH)

Skylight
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1183351734/med_gallery_2144_2004_593027.jpg

Sometimes campgrounds are in very scenic places AND no Motel 6s available.
http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/26974/2924516740099738507S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2924516740099738507ajnbts)

Lots of crap on the MC though...........although I just take the basic tent/pad/bag ensemble. But on balance worth it.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1155590136/med_gallery_2144_2004_832515.jpg

After a few years in the Navy on water hours I do like my showers though!!