Does you dealer ask you for personal info?

[DaBear]

I went into one of the mega 'allbrands' powersports places -- this one in Jeffersonville/Clarksville, Indiana -- to buy a helmet. I picked one out, and went to the checkout. The first thing they guy wanted to know was my name and address. "Let's get you onto our system", he said.

"Let's not", I replied. "You have no need for that information."

"Sir, it's just in case something goes wrong with your credit card", he said, as if speaking to a dull, stupid and slightly obstinate child. (He was young enough to be my son).

"Bull biscuits. Besides, I'm paying cash", I said.

"I still need the information", he insisted.

"You do not, and even if I paid with a credit card, a problem would be between myself and the credit card issuer."

I left the helmet on the counter, and walked out, leaving them without a five hundred dollar sale.

I don't shop at places that have 'loyalty cards', like Kroger, and I damned sure will not support any motorcycle shop that gathers 'market and customer information', most especially one that lies about the reason that they want it. When I go through a checkout line and they ask me for my ZIP code, I give 99629 -- the Aleutian Islands.

I'm sick to death of being monitored 24/7. It's bad enough when 'Big Brother' is doing it, but when businesses began demanding such information, I will find someplace else to patronize. I spent about ten thousand dollars last year in various motorcycle shops, and not one dime in any that record personal information.

How do the reast of you feel, please?

[STPaulK]

LOL, good for you! I haven't reached that point yet of killing a deal but I do wonder why Rat Shack insists making me part of their system for a $2.99 purchase at a store two states removed. Sometimes when they ask me for a phone number, I tell them I don't own a phone. Get some funny looks but it usually ends their fishing expedition.

I'm guessing one reason these businesses want our personal info is to sell it to marketers. I have no solid information on this however.

[DaBear]

Not JUST to sell it to marketers -- and for all of those who say that 'we never do that', maybe you don't. Right now. But as long as you have the information, you CAN sell it. And look at how the telecommunications companies have GIVEN your data to the government. For that matter, how do you know that the slack-jawed cretin asking you for the info, or anyone else with access to it in their organization, isn't going to 'identity theft' you?

Much can be tracked from your buying habits. Market analysis is getting so good that the following events are reputed to have happened.

A young woman works for years to get a good education, right up through her MBA. She applies to CostCrapper Megacorp, but isn't hired. Later, she finds that a less qualified candidate was hired, instead.

It seems that CostCrapper is owned my a monolith that also owns her local grocery. It seems that they analyzed her buying patterns, noticed how much beer, wine, cigarettes, and other items of an unhealthy nature that she purchased, analyzed her future 'health issues', and concluded that she was too high a risk.

The kicker is that she was a non-smoking teetotaler who purchased items for her father, who DID have lousy habits.

Picture this: your health insurance carrier monitors how much motorcycle travel that you do, and bumps up your rates as a greater risk. They could even argue that it could be considered as a 'pre-existing condition', or force you to sign a waiver that your coverage would not include any motorcycle-related injuries.

As long as there's a record, it WILL be used, and rarely in your favour.

Think it can't happen?

[Rob Hephner]

So much paranoia, so little happiness.

I think it is your right to do what you want and they are right to run their business like they want. As far as that individuals approach, it was stupid.

I worked for Radio Shack and asked 100% of the people I dealt with for their name and address over a 10 year span. In that time I had less than 2% refuse and the hand full that decided to read me the riot act for asking a simple question. (I had a guy also get upset for saying hello when he walked in the door.) In the rare occasion someone refused I simply moved on. They usually demanded their free battery at that time, which was something RS used to do monthly.

Radio Shack has never sold its mailing list and used it simply to send out a mailer every month, it still is the best way to advertise and regular customers love it.

I always laugh when I hear someone go off about them asking and wonder if they ridicule and harass everyone for doing their job?

[sherob]

Picture this: your health insurance carrier monitors how much motorcycle travel that you do, and bumps up your rates as a greater risk. They could even argue that it could be considered as a 'pre-existing condition', or force you to sign a waiver that your coverage would not include any motorcycle-related injuries.

How can riding a motorcycle be considered a pre-exising condition? It isn't a medical condition :rolleyes:

That's why this bill is important ;)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s108-423

[Gonzo]

I think your are entirely within your rights to refuse info.

On the other hand, if they ask for my zip code, I will give it, but nothing more. They can use that to see how many people come in to the store from that area. No biggie for me.

Maybe your refusal to buy was a little off the wall, but if that's the way you feel, then more power to you.

You could consider how much education is required for some of these jobs. Not much, I'll bet. Same goes for IQ. Is 70 enough for a clerking job? That's roughly equivalent to a smart chimpanzee.

He's only following directions from his employer (company, and stuporvisor). I couldn't blame him for it, but that doesn't mean we have to abide with the corporate crap.

gonzo

[slo~ride]

I dont mind if they ask for name and address because it's usually for mailing out specials. (A good friend of mine has this job at my local honda shop) but I never give out my phone number or income level to anyone for any reason.
However the gov. conspiracy theory works for me.

[Hashimoto]

I'm with DaBear when it comes to giving out my contact info for solicitation purposes. It's a real pet peeve and I won't do it. I usually don't waste my time arguing about it though. Most of the flunkies behind the counter don't know how to proceed if don't give them an answer, so I just make something up. (I'm not implying that all people that run cash registers are flunkies, but I've certainly seen my share.)

[DaBear]

I worked for Radio Shack and asked 100% of the people I dealt with for their name and address over a 10 year span. In that time I had less than 2% refuse...

Why did they stop, Rob? They don't do it anymore.

[MGDaversa]

DaBear, I understand your reluctance to provide contact information for marketing purposes. But while the store didn't get their mailing label data OR their sale, you didn't get the helmet you had wanted to buy that day. Sounds like a lose/lose situation all around. Why let it end here? How could that sales clerk let $500 walk out the door in the name of adhering to company procedure? Now THAT's a story you should tell the owner or manager -- and in writing. Send them a nice letter. Unless they are ALL stupid, your letter will have its effect, believe me. I've been in the profession long enough to know.

[Blrfl]

If someone really wants a phone number, you can give them 718 387 6962 (They Might Be Giants Dial-a-Song) or 202 456 1414 (White House switchboard). If you use the latter, any address on J Street NW in Washington, DC is a nice compliment. (Washington has I and K streets, but no J.) I've given them one of the cell phone numbers I use overseas. Usually their little heads go kaboom when you try to explain that yes, your phone number really does have more than ten digits in it and begins with a plus.

For a SSN, there's 078-05-1120 (http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/misused.html), which has an interesting history (see link).

You have to be careful when using either of those, though, because if you associate it with any of your "real" information, it can end up tied to you in TransExperiEquiUnionFax's massive database, which includes your preference for boxers or briefs. I was first in line to get my SSN off my driver's license when Virginia finally quit using it.

Or you can just ask the clerk for their personal information and see how much you get...

--Mark

[Skywriter]

I simply decline and offer them my card or the cash...

Along with "the look".... (learned from the beloved Mrs Skywriter!)
That says "Money on the table... take it or leave it!"

I learned a valuable "purchasing" lesson a long time back...
It's a disposition... attitude if you prefer....

It goes like this:

(1)I came into your place of business by choice...
...And I didnt come here because you necessarily have something...
...Or even anything I want to buy...

(2) But I have something YOU want... $$$$... it's in my wallet.

(3) If you want to do business with me, I have to believe you have a good and reliable product, offered at a fair bang-for-the-buck price... if not a serious discount for your best customers.

(4) And that you treat all of your customers with honesty, respect, and deference to their needs for your product or service...

Make a sale... you will make some money...
Meet the needs of the market sector, and you will get rich!

[DaBear]

Actually, I went ten minutes down the road to another dealer, and bought the same helmet.

What I do for a living is to track technology and make estimates of what trends it indicates. Like most military estimates (I worked for the federal government for fourteen years), these trends are predicated not on what is likely, but what it possible.

Here's a trend that I think that you're likely to see: The 'personal information' thing is likely to be moot in ten years or so. CCTV and recognition software are getting so good that people will be identified and tracked whenever they're in a public place. Whatever transactions that they initiate will be automatically mapped and integrated with the visual record.

This is current off-the-shelf technology, already in widespread use in London. The average Londoner is on camera about three hundred times in twenty-four hours, and their face recognition software is tremendous.

As for being a 'conspiracy theorist', every time I hear that, I laugh. As a scientist (I'm a physicist and mathematician), I tend to be rational to the point of dullness, making my opinions and judgments from the empirical evidence. JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald and no one else, I've never seen credible evidence of UFOs or life after death, and perpetual motion machines are de facto impossible due to physical nature of the universe.

What disturbs me most about the giving out of information isn't so much how it will be used to exploit you, it's how readily people will do it without thinking, or shrugging it off by saying, 'I trust them' about a perfect stranger.

[DeanR]

I believe Radio Shack was the first place, many years ago, that started my non cooperative attitude at stores. Very few get any info from me.

[sherob]

Yes, information is power. As an ex employee of Equifax, I was amazed at the information we could pull for customers... right down to zipcodes... types of purchases... within date ranges... gender... age... income brackets... you name it ;)

Now... just think of all those ATM, security, traffic, and other cameras out there... LOL!!! :D

[txdon2006]

When they start asking for my personal information I usually just ask them for theirs in trade and it usually stops. There are some pushy people out there that will not relent and I'm of the school that I don't need whatever I was going to buy if I have to divuldge personal information. Zip code ok, but the rest is not.

[STPaulK]

Radio Shack has never sold its mailing list and used it simply to send out a mailer every month, it still is the best way to advertise and regular customers love it.

I always laugh when I hear someone go off about them asking and wonder if they ridicule and harass everyone for doing their job?

Rob, the original subject was not about Radio Shack. I only referenced them because I thought it was strange they needed my phone number for a $2.99 sale when I was on a trip once. I did give them my phone number anyway. But some businesses I do not hand over personal information, usually because I won't be shopping there again. I have never a bad experience by declining the information to any business. and everyone is cordial.

[illzoni]

The first time I rode an ST1100 it was a used '91 Black for sale at a multi-brand cycle store in eastern Tucson. I wanted to ride their bike, so I gave them my info. Although I didn't buy that bike, I've owned two since...

Anyway, less than a year later I got a call from some marketer at a local gym. It was the A-hole former salesman from that motorcycle shop. I promptly called the cycle manager and read him the f___ing riot act. I let it drop there.

I should've called the local news and advised them what had happened. Wonder what would've happened to sales at that dealer.

[JZH]

This is current off-the-shelf technology, already in widespread use in London. The average Londoner is on camera about three hundred times in twenty-four hours, and their face recognition software is tremendous.Yes, and we have absolutely no crime in London. None. Not a whif. Incredible, really...

Ciao,

[Rob Hephner]

Why did they stop, Rob? They don't do it anymore.

The stopped because of the combined increase in postage and printing, as cited by their newest CEO. That entire business model changed with the advent of the Internet.

Rob, the original subject was not about Radio Shack. I only referenced them because I thought it was strange they needed my phone number for a $2.99 sale when I was on a trip once. I did give them my phone number anyway. But some businesses I do not hand over personal information, usually because I won't be shopping there again. I have never a bad experience by declining the information to any business. and everyone is cordial.

I know exactly why you were asked. Stores were awarded recognition of the percentage of addresses captured in regional meetings, so employees were trained to capture as many as possible by asking 100% of the time. It is a straight numbers game, if employees asked 100% of the time I never had a store drop below 98%. Additionally Radio Shack had a Credit Card called the RSVP card. If a stores employees asked 100% if people would like the card they would always average 35% new applications.

The combination of those two practices (combined with proper inventory and a clean store) would show any store a consistent 20% increase month after month. In my 10 years I took over 3 troubled stores, one that was almost closed before I got there and turned them around simply by increasing the mailing list and people with available credit.

Yea, there were people that were out of our zone, but we had the employees ask and enter the info to keep them in the zone. Much like you teach a baseball player to swing through a hit regardless if the hit the ball or make a strike. ;)

BTW, if you want to drop off the grid good luck! I would suggest creating multiple profiles as that is more confusing than trying to not exist.

For example, google my name and tell me what I do. ;)

[FL-STRIDER]

Back in 2001 my Wife and I traveled to Scotland to visit family there. One night after walking out of a Pub we saw a Photography Studio directly across the street. We decided to walk across and look at the photographs the Studio was displaying in their window. I also notice there was a camera mounted on a street pole. As we were walking towards the the shop the camera was panning and following us. Some one was watching us and honestly I didn't like it at all. We then clossed the street again and sure enough the camera followed our every move. I hope things never come to that here. We stopped our window shopping and quickly walked home. I talked to my Uncle about it the following day and he said to me they're use to it now and that it makes them feel safer. Which is a good argument however I have mixed feelings about it.

I've also added my home number to the national "do not call list". It has helped a little but I still get calls all the time for Health Insurance, cable TV, satellite TV and various surveys. Honestly I absolutely HATE telephone soliciting. I once kept a lady on the phone for a solid 20 minutes, asking her to explain and re-expalin the term of the credit card she was pushing. I told her I was laid-off from work over 2 years ago with zero income. She was still willing to issue the card!
How crazy is that. Maybe this is one of the reasons now that there is a credit crisis.

[nm6r]

For example, google my name and tell me what I do. ;)

Ride a motorcycle.

The Google search showed it as being very obvious.

Ray

[illzoni]

I've also added my home number to the national "do not call list". It has helped a little but I still get calls all the time for Health Insurance, cable TV, satellite TV and various surveys. Honestly I absolutely HATE telephone soliciting. I once kept a lady on the phone for a solid 20 minutes, asking her to explain and re-expalin the term of the credit card she was pushing. I told her I was laid-off from work over 2 years ago with zero income. She was still willing to issue the card!
How crazy is that. Maybe this is one of the reasons now that there is a credit crisis.

Really? I've found the National Do Not Call Registry to be very effective.

[Gonzo]

My number is listed on the do not call but I get one about once a month.

1 out of 10 is an actual person.

Usually they want you to press a button to talk to someone. Then when I tell them they are calling a number they shouldn't, they abruptly hang up. They rarely stay on long enough for me to tell them they are knowingly violating the law, etc, etc.


gonzo

[nybryan]

I respond with I don't have one responding to telephone or address. I'm homeless etc etc etc. even when the phone rings while standing in front of them i just say its not mine if asked.

[Dketchum]

I don't answer my phone...simple enough. :D

I don't fill out any questionnaires, "free drawings" etc..keeps me off some mailing lists ..pretty much impossible to avoid everything, but I do try and minimize it.

[Speedracer612]

I have the phone thing down. I just ask them to hold for a Minute. I never go back... I figure I tie them up for 2-5 mintues so they aren't calling others... If everyone did that telemarketing would stop.

It's the poeple that buy from them that keep it going.

James

[illzoni]

It's the poeple that buy from them that keep it going.

James


Bingo!

If their success rate dropped to zero, they'd give up. The same would apply to junk mail and SPAM.

[GAgirlTrixie]

Ok, I'll reply as the owner of a small motorcycle store.
My hubby & I own a MC apparel and accessory store. We have an email/snail mail list that we invite our customers to sign up for, if they want (if they don't, that's fine too...). Our POS system will also record and track each purchase, if we want it to (I don't, because a lot of people feel like you). Lots of pluses for tracking customers: when we look to expand, we know where our customer base is coming from, so we know where to look for location. If we were to track each customer and purchase, we could create individualized sales or coupons for the person. We send out weekly emails with ride reminders for our customer base, and postcard invites for special parties and sales that we do. It's not all big brother. We want to be sure that we are catering to our customers.

[Blrfl]

We have an email/snail mail list that we invite our customers to sign up for, if they want (if they don't, that's fine too...).

I can appreciate all of the business-related reasons for collecting information about your customers, but there are businesses who sound like junkies begging for it. "Please, please, we must have it!"

The difference between you and the OP's dealer is that you're not insisting on it in order to consummate the transaction. In other words, you don't mind losing out on the marginal extra value of the data as long as you're making the sale. That's a good way to be. :yes:

--Mark

[DaBear]

I agree with Blrfl -- thanks, and if I deal in Savannah, I'll come to you!

[TPadden]

........It's not all big brother. We want to be sure that we are catering to our customers.

A good salesman is one that keeps track of customer information. I don't even remember giving it, but a car salesman we purchased a car from calls every year on my wife's birthday. When we recently went car shopping guess which salesman we contacted first?????

I probably still own BMW motorcycles because the Bentonville Ar dealer calls me occasionally to offer test rides :D ..........., no Honda dealer ever has :( :(

Tom

[dreddd2000]

Hey, if a salesperson takes good care of me, I try to toss more business his way. If Target or Wal-Mart or Borders asks me for personal information when I go to check out, I just say "no, thank you." I don't recall ever having anyone argue with me past the second "no, thank you." But that's just me.

[TPadden]

....If Target or Wal-Mart or Borders asks me for personal information when I go to check out, I just say "no, thank you." ......

Trolling: I'd give Wal-Mart my first born if they asked for him :D :D!

........ they've never asked for either; why would they when they already have access to our Tax returns, computers, and sexual orientation :D.

Tom

[John Anthony]

This sort of stuff doesn't bother me too much. I've got an e-mail address that I use for general purpose stuff and one that I don't share as that's the one I use for business purposes. Over the years, I've probably received more follow up e-mails regarding information stores think I would find of interest than pure junk mail.

John

[2dogs]

I even got ask for my phone # and address at a local hair salon when I went in for a quick hair cut. When I said no thank you , I'd rather not be part of your data base. I got a bit of anxiety and some slight sarcasm but no big deal.
They seemed shocked and confused that anyone would question freely giving out personal info. and not love to be added to yet another superfluous data Base.
I always try to politely decline such requests.

[tlartist]

I'm with you brother. Try to pay with cash as much as possible, don't give out any info unless I have to, don't use saver cards, etc.

[TPadden]

I'm with you brother. Try to pay with cash as much as possible, don't give out any info unless I have to, don't use saver cards, etc.

I should be more PARANOID :D

I don't carry cash, write about 3 checks a year, use the Internet to transfer about $30,000 a year between various accounts, and use a credit/debit card for everything. I've never had a problem with the hundreds (probably thousands) of annual Internet, Wal-Mart, or 7-11 purchases using my credit card and will answer almost any personal question a total stranger will ask. :o:

No one calls, I don't get junk mail........................ :)

Tom

[freddy]

would they ask the same info for a $79 helmet?

[uptoblackwood]

Gordon,

I'm with you 100%. We are never sure about how secure this (OUR information) information is...or how they may use it. They rarely offer up their disclosure policy, unless asked.

Forest

[BigTom]

I'm a non player, mostly. One MC (the Honda) shop locally has my phone # and name in the file. It works because I sometimes order things from them.

I do have a Fry's (Kroger) card. It does not have my name or address. Fry's is the only supermarket within 15 miles of me.

Oh. If I just have to give a phone number, I give my fax number. I haven't heard that ring for several years:)

[Tankereng]

Here's my info that I like to give out...

Ph # 867-5309 (Local area code though)
Zip code 90210

The clerks that get the joke usually laugh and forgot to ask for the real info....which I won't give anyway..not worried about marketing plots.....just lack of secure systems and cyber hackers getting my information..

Although the good 'ole government has already allowed my personal information to be compromised due to poor security practices twice in the last 3 or 4 years...so my info is probably already out there....:banghead:

[JZH]

Here's my info that I like to give out...

Ph # 867-5309 (Local area code though)
Zip code 90210
I'm surprised that phone number means anything to a 33-year old... ;)

How about 606-0842?

Ciao,

[Blrfl]

How about 606-0842?

And they're waiting for you.

How about 634-5789?

--Mark