Choosing between 910s and 912Xtras

[Jeff F]

I'm looking at PIAA driving lights and could use a little guidance.

Here's what I know - (please correct me if I'm wrong or missing anything).

The 910s are 110 watt, a discontinued product but still available. The 912s are 55 watt which is equivalent to 85 watt. (This sounds like doublespeak. Not sure what PIAA means with this). The 910s are about 10-15% more $. The 910s are physically bigger. They both use H3 bulbs and have glass lenses.

Seems to me that this boils down to light output. Is 55 watt (aka 85) putting out enough light to pick out the "deer in ditches" or do I need 110 watt flamethrowers for the DID? - (he asks wondering if watts correlate to lumens or are there other factors as well) :confused:

TIA

[GRN]

Jeff, been pondering the same, and going with the 910's for more or less the same reasons as the cowboy. We have the xtra lg flavor of ditch donkeys here... MOOSE :eek: ... bad mojo. Bigger yet harder to spot... many watts good :cool:

[GRN]

P.S. ... let me know if you find any good deals (I'll do the same) on the 910's, I'm not having a lot of luck at the moment...

[Jeff F]

The best deal I found was from Dick Seng. A snip from his email to me ....

The brackets are $85.00. The PIAA 910's are $290.00. The PIAA
912Xtra's are $250.00. Shipping is included in those prices.

How does that compare to what you've come up with?

[GRN]

The best deal I found was from Dick Seng. A snip from his email to me ....

The brackets are $85.00. The PIAA 910's are $290.00. The PIAA
912Xtra's are $250.00. Shipping is included in those prices.

How does that compare to what you've come up with?

Better... didn't realize when I talked to Dick that he had the lights too... thanx man :cool:

[Hewhois]

Does he have a website?

How long do they last before needing new bulbs? How much do new bulbs cost?

One more question ;) That seems pretty expensive when I can get pretty decent lights for $40-$50 at Walmart/AutoZone. What made the price difference worth it to you all

Thanks!

[Hewhois]

Thanks Charlie!

Do they come with an inline fuse and relay? And do you happen to have his Email addy?

Thanks!

[sttourer]

Pardon me for horning in...

Dick's email is dickseng@comcast.net

The 910 kit comes with dual relays and dual fuses. Everything you need for the install.

:biker:

[Jeff F]

Close but no cigar. The correct email address is dick-seng@comcast.net

[Jeff F]

One more question ;) That seems pretty expensive when I can get pretty decent lights for $40-$50 at Walmart/AutoZone. What made the price difference worth it to you all

Thanks!

I agree it is expensive. I've avoided spending the big coin thinking I could find a good alternative somewhere else. No such luck. I do have marker lights (front forks) from WalMart, for compiscuity. They work fine but I can see that they'll need replacing soon. They're already starting to breakdown (6 mo old) - the plastic lens is getting foggy & the plastic light body is getting beat up. Mounting these lights was difficult as well. Most wouldn't work without way too much fiddling around.

Mirror area mount driving lights aren't available at the usual auto parts stores that I can see - & I've visited many. I found some sites that have Beemer, GW & KLR driving light kits w/ mounts but none that offer them for the ST.

Bottom line: I don't feel safe in the early am, dusk or after dark with all the deer, coons etc. I need to do something asap. The PIAA/DickSeng option is the best I can find. Its a safety issue - if it works as I hear it does, maybe the price is cheap.

[GRN]

ditto... looked at a lot of alternatives, build quality, mounting... to big of a pain to mount somthing that isn't made for the bike to have to replace them with any frequency. Also don't want to leave my wife the task of explaining to my 2 yr. old daughter that I got killed by a moose I didn't see cause I was being a cheap *******... no sir. Bring on the watts, there's another check coming in two weeks...

I agree it is expensive. I've avoided spending the big coin thinking I could find a good alternative somewhere else. No such luck. I do have marker lights (front forks) from WalMart, for compiscuity. They work fine but I can see that they'll need replacing soon. They're already starting to breakdown (6 mo old) - the plastic lens is getting foggy & the plastic light body is getting beat up. Mounting these lights was difficult as well. Most wouldn't work without way too much fiddling around.

Mirror area mount driving lights aren't available at the usual auto parts stores that I can see - & I've visited many. I found some sites that have Beemer, GW & KLR driving light kits w/ mounts but none that offer them for the ST.

Bottom line: I don't feel safe in the early am, dusk or after dark with all the deer, coons etc. I need to do something asap. The PIAA/DickSeng option is the best I can find. Its a safety issue - if it works as I hear it does, maybe the price is cheap.

[Jeff F]

:bow1: A thing of beauty ... http://www.my-mc.com/messages/1/48541.html?1114507082 (scroll down - there's a couple of pics, 5 or 6 posts from the bottom)

[sttourer]

Close but no cigar. The correct email address is dick-seng@comcast.net

:confused:

He must use two email addresses because dickseng@comcast.net is what I used to correspond with him.

[Jeff F]

I tired the one with no hyphen 1st. I found it on someones web site (Mark Kozarski sp?) It bounced back - a couple of times. I also tried this one < dickseng@attbi.com > found on a search on another board. I knew it was older but I was out of options. It was rubber too.

The only address I could get to work was (dick with a - ) found after more seaching .... & when he responded, this is where it came from.

:confused: whatever works.

PS: I expect most of us know about it but that Mark K's web site is very very helpful. Kudos and much thanks to him.

[GRN]

Been chatting with Dick, using dickseng@comcast.net. So, Jeff, 910's?

[Jeff F]

Been chatting with Dick, using dickseng@comcast.net. So, Jeff, 910's?


Yup, that's my choice. I don't suppose 2 of us is much of a group buy, is it :rolleyes:

(The repeated email bounces must have been a problem on my end :confused: Sorry for any confusion above. JF)

[GRN]

nope...
Looking at also doing 1200's or somthing similar on the forks using the Martin brackets. I'm goonna wire the 910's to slave the highbeams, with a switch to leave them off during the day... once I have the 1200's on and wired to be on all the time.

Also thinking about putting red runners on the back of the bags, and quite possibly an extra set of directionals back there too... already had a close call... was on my way home and threw on my left directional at a rural 4 way, noticed at the last minute the car behind me was passing me on the left as I started the turn... I cranked right, he slammed on the brakes, we both pulled over to the side of the road. The driver of the car got out quite upset with himself, apologizing profusely... explained he had just worked a double, and THE SHAPE OF THE LEFT DIRECTIONAL looked a lot like an arrow pointing right... couldn't really argue with the guy. I could see making the same mistake being a tad dyslexic, after a 20hr day (and I do pleanty of them!).

More farkles!

Many safe miles...

[Jeff F]

nope...
Looking at also doing 1200's or somthing similar on the forks using the Martin brackets. I'm goonna wire the 910's to slave the highbeams, with a switch to leave them off during the day... once I have the 1200's on and wired to be on all the time.

Also thinking about putting red runners on the back of the bags, and quite possibly an extra set of directionals back there too



We're doing pretty much the same thing. The pencil beam lights I have on the forks (from Wally World) are quite visible to oncoming cars but don't give me much extra driving light. I need a better quality product though. The guy (Jerrol?) from the MY-MC board has it right I think.

On the rear I also put the reflective tape product, custom cut for the ST bags etc. Cheap, and very visible at night. (can't think of the name of them at the moment)

I'll be ordering later today from Dick S.

[sttourer]

I need a better quality product though.


If you are looking for top quality fork mount pencil beam lamp, these will fit the bill.

http://www.electricalconnection.com/driving-lights/dl_st1300.htm

[GRN]

Just mailed my check to Dick...

Went out at lunch with one of the guys here who rides... has got the itch to replace his 25 year old 650 Suzie... and found a great solution IMO to the directional issue mentioned before. They are Lockhart Phillips part # 122-9680, orange single filament (I prefer not to use orange as a running/marker light) that will mount to the outside of the bags, towards the rear, below the painted covers, and the flared design is clearly visible from both the side and rear... just what the doctor ordered :cool: trying to find a pic to post...

[GRN]

If you are looking for top quality fork mount pencil beam lamp, these will fit the bill.

http://www.electricalconnection.com/driving-lights/dl_st1300.htm

pretty sweet... but, how's the build quality, and how's the visibility of the far (outside) light when viewed from an angle - this mount keeps the light pretty close to the wheel?

[sttourer]

pretty sweet... but, how's the build quality, and how's the visibility of the far (outside) light when viewed from an angle - this mount keeps the light pretty close to the wheel?

Build quality is excellent. E/C makes great products. I installed them for visibility to other drivers. They provide a very bright white light.

They are mounted very tight to the fender using the side reflector holes The integrated look appealed to me.

Unless fork lights are mounted above the front fender or they protrude several inches out from the fender, visibility of the outside light is going to be obstructed.

If you interested in adding led side reflectors you might check out this link:

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2611&highlight=reflectors

There are some photos about half way down the page.

I replaced the ones on the rear but not on the fork.

[GRN]

Build quality is excellent. E/C makes great products. I installed them for visibility to other drivers. They provide a very bright white light.

They are mounted very tight to the fender using the side reflector holes The integrated look appealed to me.

Unless fork lights are mounted above the front fender or they protrude several inches out from the fender, visibility of the outside light is going to be obstructed.

If you interested in adding led side reflectors you might check out this link:

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2611&highlight=reflectors

There are some photos about half way down the page.

I replaced the ones on the rear but not on the fork.


Thanks for the input... I know what you mean about the relationship of the light to the fender, I think the only one that gets them out far enough to make much of a dif are the motolights... which IMO look like somthing from a bad 60's scifi flick :p: I certainly like the idea of keeping the reflector, and agree that that have a nice integrated look. Like the reflectors too...... mmmmmm... this is going to get as bad as the fly rod collection... then comes the divorce lawyer :eek: :04biker:

[sttourer]

One thing to consider is with the E/C lights being in so tight they do illuminate the front wheel and fender so they become visible from the side.

Farkle addiction can become very expensive and most SO's just don't understand it. You might try "But honey, it's a safety issue".

[Hewhois]

Greets!

I've been using my left arm to signal left turns more and more lately. Been doing this ever since a few weeks ago when an over anxious cager used the slashed lines part of the lane before the left turn lane actually started to cut me off when I started to *legally* get into the left turn lane. Good thing I always and habitually do a quick head check or things would have been bad.

I'll probably pick up one of Sengs' lights in a couple paychecks. Leaning toward the 55w lights since I would like to leave them on all the time. Would angle them to be slightly higher than the low beams but lower than the high beams. Did that with my 1st bike and worked quite well with 35w lights, the 55w should be even better.
I also like the fact that the E/C lights keep the reflectors on, don't like the idea of removing stock DOT reflectors. May have to get those E/C lights soon too, lol. They have a blue lens? Do they look blue when on? Is it possible to change the lens to Amber? I'll shoot them an Email and ask.

[Jeff F]

I also like the fact that the E/C lights keep the reflectors on, don't like the idea of removing stock DOT reflectors.


I agree. The WalMart specials I mounted on the forks keep the reflector as well.

[sttourer]

Greets!

I've been using my left arm to signal left turns more and more lately. Been doing this ever since a few weeks ago when an over anxious cager used the slashed lines part of the lane before the left turn lane actually started to cut me off when I started to *legally* get into the left turn lane. Good thing I always and habitually do a quick head check or things would have been bad.

I'll probably pick up one of Sengs' lights in a couple paychecks. Leaning toward the 55w lights since I would like to leave them on all the time. Would angle them to be slightly higher than the low beams but lower than the high beams. Did that with my 1st bike and worked quite well with 35w lights, the 55w should be even better.
I also like the fact that the E/C lights keep the reflectors on, don't like the idea of removing stock DOT reflectors. May have to get those E/C lights soon too, lol. They have a blue lens? Do they look blue when on? Is it possible to change the lens to Amber? I'll shoot them an Email and ask.

The E/C lens do look blue when the lights are off. But when they are switch on, the blue disappears.

Here are some photos of the lights.

Photo 1 - Shows the highbeams, the 910's and the E/C's all fired up.

Photo 2 - Shows the highbeams and E/C's on.

Photo 3 - Shows the lowbeams and E/C's from the side.

[Hewhois]

Nice pics! Looks great.

Do you know if you can replace the lens with amber?

The E/C lens do look blue when the lights are off. But when they are switch on, the blue disappears.

Here are some photos of the lights.

Photo 1 - Shows the highbeams, the 910's and the E/C's all fired up.

Photo 2 - Shows the highbeams and E/C's on.

Photo 3 - Shows the lowbeams and E/C's from the side.

[LDMike]

Jeff F,

Like you, I tried the Wally World lights for conspicuity and although they worked "ok", they weren't really what I wanted. I was cruising in a m/c shop late last season and found a pair of PIAA 1100x with electricals for a "close-out" price of (believe it or not) $90. They were mine in a millisecond. They now sit proudly on my front forks where the Wally World lamps used to be and they work great. I've aimed them slightly above the low beams and to the right so as to not blind oncoming drivers and I haven't had anyone flick their lights at me yet.

Secondly, I purchased the 910s and brackets from Dick Seng and they are nothing short of fantastic! I can prolly see 1/2 mile down the road, BUT, they are NOT to be used with oncoming traffic!!!!!

When I went to pick up my bike from the shop a few weeks ago the mechanic drove it out with all the lights ablaze and it's REALLY tough on the eyes:

55w x 2 for stock lamps
55w x2 for PIAA 110x
110 w x2 for PIAA 910s
= 440 watts of power going down the road

DAMN that's bright!!


LDMike
Milwaukee

[sttourer]

Nice pics! Looks great.

Do you know if you can replace the lens with amber?

Sorry, I missed that in your original message. The answer would be no on the amber lenses. The lamp uses a standard H3 35-watt bulb. I don't know if those are available in amber or not. Just out of curiosity, why are you interested in amber?

[Hewhois]

Oh well. Will have to do a little research and see if can find amber bulbs.

Do a lot of riding in the country in the dark in fog/mist/rain. Amber/yellow/orange lights cut through those type of conditions better than plain white.

Thanks for the info!

Sorry, I missed that in your original message. The answer would be no on the amber lenses. The lamp uses a standard H3 35-watt bulb. I don't know if those are available in amber or not. Just out of curiosity, why are you interested in amber?

[sttourer]

Do a lot of riding in the country in the dark in fog/mist/rain. Amber/yellow/orange lights cut through those type of conditions better than plain white.

Thanks for the info!

For that type of application, you may be better off with something other than a pencil beam. A fog light distributes light for a short and wide distance. Neither the E/C's or the 910/12's provide that type of pattern.

Cyclegadgets.com carries the Martin brackets for the ST1300. The brackets are made for the PIAA 1000X, 1100X, or 1200. The 1200's which are 55-watt amber. Here's a caveat from the FAQ's on their site:

#7 - Does an amber lens mean the lamps are fog lights?
No, the color of the light has little to do with its foul-weather performance. While yellow light will penetrate a little better in fog, the beam pattern is really the difference between a driving lamp and a fog lamp. A round-pattern yellow lamp like the PIAA 1200 will not work much better than a white lamp in bad weather, because it casts too much light upward to be reflected back into the rider's eyes. True fog lamps like the PIAA 520 Fogs have a very wide, flat beam that does not cast any light up to be reflected back.

Hope this helps.

Pat

[Jeff F]

When I went to pick up my bike from the shop a few weeks ago the mechanic drove it out with all the lights ablaze and it's REALLY tough on the eyes:

55w x 2 for stock lamps
55w x2 for PIAA 110x
110 w x2 for PIAA 910s
= 440 watts of power going down the road

DAMN that's bright!!



Yah that's what I want. Thanks for the info and encouragement Mike. I'm looking forward to getting this set up.

How do you have your lights wired? .... the 1100s on w/ low beams and the 910s switched seperately, or on the high beam switch or ??

TIA

[Blackdog]

Where can I get the 910 kit and a pair of Dick Seng mounts for my ST1300? All the email addresses I found for him haven't worked. Does anyone have a good one?
Coop

[tinfish81]

Try dickseng@comcast.net ...Worked for me about a month ago...