Oil change = idle drop

[RxCritical]

Just changed my oil for the first time at 450 miles. (couldn't do it earlier do to working) Upon restart I noticed the idle dropped down enough to cause the engine to seem to lug. I adjusted it back up again. I used Rotella T 15W-40 as several people suggested and a Honda oil filter.

Anyone else have this issue? I've done lots of motorcycle oil changes and never have I noticed this before on my other bikes.

Thanks, Paul

[LandRover]

That's odd ... I just went to Mobil 1 Red Cap, and also noticed a drop. About 500 rpm. Anybody got any thoughts?

[AgSTreak]

I used Rotella T dino at my first change and the idle stayed the same. No change when I switched to Rotella T syn either.

[electrajoe]

You have a new $12-14 K bike with a 3 year warranty. I have been told that the manual calls for a MA approved oil, Rotella does not have the MA certification. Your best bet is to run Pro Honda GN4 with the MA approval, protect your warranty. Should you have a problem Honda can't blame the oil. Honda oil is about $14 per gallon, Rotella 15w40 is about $7, the extra $7 spend seems like a good investment.

Overfilling has been reported to cause vibrations, but have not heard it lowers idle speed. You did not give details, but I suspect you took out 10W40 and put in 15W40. The 5 points from 10W to 15W (cold thickness) should not make too much difference. Rotella T 15W40 is dino, compounded for diesels, it has good motorcycle properties.

I tired Rotella T 5W40 synthetic, compounded for diesels also. The 5W40 synthetic in my ST1100 seemed to start a little easier and seemed more responsive than the 15W40. I discontined the Rotella T 5w40 due to high iron (37 PPM) reported in my oil by Blackstone Labs. My opinion is that the 5W is not protecting the engine. My Harley, since sold, showed 10 PPM with Harley Syn 3 20w50. I just changed the ST1100 clutch and now using Pro Honda GN4 10w40.

[Kennedy]

Yup... synthetic is the culprit.... it's that much better in reducing friction...although 500rpm seems a little much.

Just reset the idle ... right side, in front of head... black knob with a Phillips-head screw in center... use a Phillips screwdriver if the engine's hot.

If it was reducing the friction wouldn't the revs go up?

[Mike]

Dude that's not right....check to be sure your oil fill cap is seated snug, these engines run a closed crankcase and a air leak could cause the idle drop. The change in oil alone should not cause the drop you are having.

[RxCritical]

You have a new $12-14 K bike with a 3 year warranty. I have been told that the manual calls for a MA approved oil, Rotella does not have the MA certification. Your best bet is to run Pro Honda GN4 with the MA approval, protect your warranty. Should you have a problem Honda can't blame the oil. Honda oil is about $14 per gallon, Rotella 15w40 is about $7, the extra $7 spend seems like a good investment.

Overfilling has been reported to cause vibrations, but have not heard it lowers idle speed. You did not give details, but I suspect you took out 10W40 and put in 15W40. The 5 points from 10W to 15W (cold thickness) should not make too much difference. Rotella T 15W40 is dino, compounded for diesels, it has good motorcycle properties.

I tired Rotella T 5W40 synthetic, compounded for diesels also. The 5W40 synthetic in my ST1100 seemed to start a little easier and seemed more responsive than the 15W40. I discontined the Rotella T 5w40 due to high iron (37 PPM) reported in my oil by Blackstone Labs. My opinion is that the 5W is not protecting the engine. My Harley, since sold, showed 10 PPM with Harley Syn 3 20w50. I just changed the ST1100 clutch and now using Pro Honda GN4 10w40.

You are correct in that I took out the original Honda 10W-40 and replaced it with dino Rotella T 15W-40. I agree that it should not make much of a difference, that's why I asked. I thought it was odd that the engine would respond that way to just an oil change. I have never had any other engine do that. I put in exactly 4 qts. The level is a little under the full mark. My rpm drop was around 200 rpm.

I'm not trying to start another oil thread here but it was my understanding that as long as the oil is at least API SJ or better and not energy conserving that it meets the requirements.

Paul

[RxCritical]

Dude that's not right....check to be sure your oil fill cap is seated snug, these engines run a closed crankcase and a air leak could cause the idle drop. The change in oil alone should not cause the drop you are having.

Good suggestion. I was able to snug it some more, but it seems tight enough.

Thanks, Paul

[threexcharm]

Tell ya what ya do.....

Go to VFRdiscussion.com and seek out a gentleman from Borne (I think this is
how you spell the town) Texas whose moniker is Scootr. His real name is Scott. He is a petroleum engineer that earns his full time living performing oil analysis. He specializes in Heavy Diesel Motor Oils like Rotella. He is by far the most expert person I have ever come across on the subject of petroleum and synthetic lubricants.

Ask him what he thinks of Honda GN4.

He has done the testing. To my knowledge he likes Mobil One and Amsoil the best. Believe me, if you have warranty problems with your bike, and you are using good lubricant stock, Honda won't deny you warranty coverage.

Keep good maintenance records. We are talking Honda here. They will definitely back up what they sell. They don't want litigation and they don't want bad comments made about them on the Internet, for the whole world to see. They did a full year production recall on VFR's. They replaced all of the stators in the 2002 year models. Actual failure was less than one per cent.

Just my opinion, of course.

Joe

[Hewhois]

Is the original oil 10w40? How do we know?

On my last bike, BMW 1150RT, the original oil was a special lighter weight for break-in only, totally different from the recommended oil for after break-in.

[Don-STOC237]

Honda GN 10W40 is totally crap by the time it has about 2,000 miles on it. Shifting gets notchy as heck.

I don't know about the st1300, but the ST1100 has an 8,000 mile oil change interval (see your OM), and I like to put in oil that'll go the distance.

Only one I've found that will perform as well coming out after 8K as it did going in is MC-specific Amsoil 10W40.

And it costs about the same as buying that GN crap at your local STealer.

BTW, Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and the general principles of the Federal Trade Commission Act, a manufacturer/dealer may NOT require you to have routine oil changes or use any particular brand of oil filter (or any other part) or any specific oil, unless the manufacturer provides the item free of charge, during the terms of the warranty.

And you could look it up. :D

[Carl_T]

My bike has had the original oil when I bought it, then Shell Rotella T 15-50 Dino oil (smooth shifting). After that the dealer put in something at the 600mi. mark and the shifting got balky as hell. it would ONLY shift without complaint by preloading the shifter. At 1500 I dropped that and put in Shell Rotella T 5-40 synthetic. The shifting returned pretty much to normal (though it may have been a tad better with the 15-40).

At no time did I notice the idle changing appreciably with any of the oil changes. I may try Mobile next oil change as well.

[Kennedy]

Honda GN 10W40 is totally crap by the time it has about 2,000 miles on it. Shifting gets notchy as heck.

I don't know about the st1300, but the ST1100 has an 8,000 mile oil change interval (see your OM), and I like to put in oil that'll go the distance.

Only one I've found that will perform as well coming out after 8K as it did going in is MC-specific Amsoil 10W40.

And it costs about the same as buying that GN crap at your local STealer.

BTW, Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and the general principles of the Federal Trade Commission Act, a manufacturer/dealer may NOT require you to have routine oil changes or use any particular brand of oil filter (or any other part) or any specific oil, unless the manufacturer provides the item free of charge, during the terms of the warranty.

And you could look it up. :D

Is that synthetic or non synthetic that you are using. I am looking for a good oil to start using in my bike. Thanks

[Don-STOC237]

Full synthetic. See here: http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/2005/pr_new_mcycleoil.aspx

[Kennedy]

Thank you Sir.

[electrajoe]

Hope the engine does not wear out and the gears will shift on the trip to Colorado next week. I should have about 5,000 miles on the GN4 upon return, will sent a sample to Blackstone Labs. If results are not favorable something else will go in.

[threexcharm]

BTW, Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and the general principles of the Federal Trade Commission Act, a manufacturer/dealer may NOT require you to have routine oil changes or use any particular brand of oil filter (or any other part) or any specific oil, unless the manufacturer provides the item free of charge, during the terms of the warranty.

YES.....What he said........

Thanks Don, you are so much more eloquent than I am

Another thing....amsoil motorcyle specific is probably the best stuff you can put in your bike. I put amsoil in my Honda Accord. My gas milage increased from 30 to 32 Miles per gallon. My driving did not change. Took the same route to work, setting the cruise control at 70, just like always. Something about that stuff.......

Joe

[ST_Jim]

BTW, Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and the general principles of the Federal Trade Commission Act, a manufacturer/dealer may NOT require you to have routine oil changes or use any particular brand of oil filter (or any other part) or any specific oil, unless the manufacturer provides the item free of charge, during the terms of the warranty.Don't you mean "..may NOT require you to have dealer performed oil changes..."? I was under the impression they just couldn't require you to use their parts, fluids, service department, etc., but could require you to perform periodic maintainance (and produce evidence of said maintainance). ;)

Jim

[Kennedy]

Hope the engine does not wear out and the gears will shift on the trip to Colorado next week. I should have about 5,000 miles on the GN4 upon return, will sent a sample to Blackstone Labs. If results are not favorable something else will go in.

Would really like to see the up date on this if you could post it for us.

[Don-STOC237]

Don't you mean "..may NOT require you to have dealer performed oil changes..."? I was under the impression they just couldn't require you to use their parts, fluids, service department, etc., but could require you to perform periodic maintainance (and produce evidence of said maintainance). ;)

Jim

Here's the actual language of the Act, that applies:

"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name...."(15 U.S.C. 2302(c).


So basically, unless your manufacturer is willing to provide you with free oil changes, he can't void your warranty for your failure to get them.

However, there is a catch to this: If the manufacturer states in his warranty that operation of such device and warranty coverage provided is dependant on certain procedures being done, like oil changes, he may be able to make this stick, as you noted.

From the FTC website: Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.


I don't have my warranty available. If someone cares to read theirs and post the results, I'd be interested to see if Honda has included this type statement.

Anyone who wants to explore this more can Google Magnuson-Moss and find a plethora of discussion on it.

[Kennedy]

Yup found that oil at Canadian tire for $10.00 ltr but it is rated 0w40. Reading the back panel of the container it reads 0w40 to 10w40. I am confused as to how this is possible but it also says Jaso aproved