What Do You Like About the Honda Police Motor?

[Motors]

Ok, many of you ride the ST1300PA for a living. Many Departments (especially out west-the midwest is the last to change to anything) have the Honda. What is the attraction??
If one mentions BMW, let alone Honda, fellow Motor officers look at you with that doe-in-the-headlights look. HD is scared to death that they might catch on here in the midworst. We are too close to Milwaukee to make the change for political reasons. Honda does not promote their police Motor among dealers, and most of the dealers I have mentioned it to have no clue that it even exists!

Please feel free to list what you like about the ST. And if you would, please mention what you don't like. If you would like to make comparisons to other Motors you have ridden, feel free.

Thanks for your input. We can all learn.

Motors

[bluedragon]

For me, the bike is much more responsive than the HD. The riding position lends itself to slow speed, tight manuevers. It is much quicker than an HD and more reliable, IMO. Much quieter and even with the heat issues the ST has, it is still not as hot in the summertime as the HD.

All in all, I love the ST as a police motorcycle.

[PJRNM]

1) Initial cost (Higher than HD lease, but lower than BMW)
2) Maintenance cost (WAY lower than Beemer, parts don't break like HD)
3) Maneuverability & Handling (Better than HD, 'bout a wash with Beemer)
4) Speed (Hands down the fastest!)
5) No Heat in Crotch (HD has killer heat, BMW's only have oil cooler, not radiator)

[motor2191]

The performance was the key for me (us). Stability, quiet, smooth, excellent brakes, smooth, good name for reliability (even a die hard H-D guy will agree on that), did I mention smooth? I hated riding those jack hammers, 8 to 10 hours every day in the oppressive humid heat of Central Flori"duh" with that 300 degree heat roasting your right thigh drove me nuts. I also grew tired of the "issues" too. Recalls, TSB's, or the even the sheer denial that anything was wrong. The air cleaner cover fell off one time on my way home, H-D had the nerve to charge us for a replacement. They claimed it wasn't their responsibility even though the bike was about two weeks old at the time. Another time my H-D sat at the dealership waiting for a TSB to be done. Two weeks later they called and said the bike was ready to be picked up. I did, but they never did the repair. ***? This was standard practice! It wasn't just us who encountered these issues either. Then the ever increasing price that went along with the "We don't give a "F" attitude". So we began shopping, which leads us to where we are. With the exception of the battery, the ST-P is a great bike! Though I do wish Honda would partner up with a lighting manufacturer (Whelen, Federal Signal, etc) to produce a "turn key" bike. It sure would be a lot more simple to tell them you want "these" color lights and when the bike shows up it's ready to roll. That's a big feature with BMW now, they partnered with Code 3 PSE and you can order their bikes with lights, siren, radar mounts, camera mounts, laser mounts, police stickers, etc. That's a BIG feature that many are willing to pay for. Remember those items are now part of the "bumper to bumper" warranty too. Now, if a light goes out on my ST-P I've got to down the bike, remove the light, ship off the light, wait for it to return, put on the new light before I get back on it. Thankfully with LED's that isn't an issue too often. BUT, the assurance is nice to know. So far, I think that the skeptics in my area are more believing now. They've seen the Honda in action and they can see it can do the job. The biggest hurdle we had to over come was the "four hundred dollar mirror" theorem all the H-D guys had. That being, if you drop the bike in the slow cones a four hundred dollar part would break. Well, obviously that doesn't happen! Now they see that doesn't happen and their prior ignorances shine through! LOL!

[Kempo-STer]

Not a police officer so take this with a grain of salt..

Unfortunately the 'Attitude' is what keeps P Departments OFF of the ST and its a stupid shame...

No one would drive a 1970 Plymouth Fury as a normal cruiser anymore, yet my feeling is that is what you get on the Harley...

If you want something that Brakes faster, accelarates faster, manuevers faster, is friggen bullet proof then there is NO comparison...To me, most of the those can put an officer in the position to have his LIFE saved on a bike..

BUT do we want to politically "Correct" riding an outdated machine or have our officers in the best position possible to be safe and effective...

[motor2191]

I agree 100%. In fact I used that analogy just the other day. Someone mentioned an older car that's no longer made and how they had a great time with it. I said, "So, if they made it again but this time they put in ABS and fuel injection, would you still buy one?" It got a good chuckle, but it proved a real point. Obviously, the answer is "No!". But somehow, that mentality endures. That's the way we've done it and that's the way will continue to do it. Go figure?? Now, the biggest hurdle we've run into is our clothing. It's a hold over from calvary days. But no one makes uniform grade riding gear that isn't either sooo freaking hot to wear with a bullet proof vest or looks like you just got off of a space ship...

[Gonzo]

I'm not a LEO, but I did get to have a conversation with one of La Verne's finest. Our city turned down the HD on the basis that even though they get the bike 'for free', the deal requires that they get ALL the service.

The ST was turned down on the basis that there is no good dealer close to us. (Also, I know that the closest dealer is a money-grubbing get-em-out-the-door and get the cash type).

On the other hand they did select the BMW and I already know the local BMW shop as being full of great people.

When I shopped, I gave a lot of consideration to the BMW and it is a great machine. Ultimately I went with the ST on reliability/cost of ownership.

[bluedragon]

Now, the biggest hurdle we've run into is our clothing. It's a hold over from calvary days. But no one makes uniform grade riding gear that isn't either sooo freaking hot to wear with a bullet proof vest or looks like you just got off of a space ship...

The same hurdle we are working on to. Had a perfect uniform picked out, would have saved the department about 50% per officer on uniforms, but ultimately got shot down.

[motor2191]

What were you going with? We looked at pants from Motoport. Pretty cool but Holly Sh-t! The price...$300 per pair. Think of this conversation, "Uh, hey LT, I've put in a PO for 5 pair of new riding pants. Good news is they're safer, bad news, uh, yeah, it's going to cost the PD 1,500 bucks per motorcop to outfit." Then silence......yeah, then the screaming starts.......What in the Hell, how F'in much?????? NO!! In fact, get out of my office......LOL! I've given up on new uniforms. Though I have toyed with the idea of making my own line of Kevlar reinforced motor pants.

Oh yeah, I heard a BAD rumor today! We've heard that Honda plans on dropping the ST-P from their line up. I sure hope this isn't true! We just got our Honda and now the ride ends....Ugh!

[Motors]

Thanks for your many responses and comments. Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one to have some negative thoughts on the HD. After riding the HD for 7 years for 10 hr shifts, I am tired of the following:

1. The constant vibration. Yes, the Motor is rubber mounted. However, take a look at your arms and hands at a traffic stop. As someone mentioned, it's like riding a 1920's paint shaker!

2. The noise. Even with the stock exhaust, after 10 hrs. I am burned out just by the constant drone of the exhaust and engine noise (and that's with stock pipes).

3. The weight. Yes, I know the ST is no lightweight. However, fully loaded, my work Motor with all the junk piled on and in had to weigh well over 900 lbs.! The new 103", six speed feels even heavier!

4. Lack of Performance. Sure the Motor will work in the city enviroment, however, put it on the highway and see what happens. My last Motor was the 88" version, and it really struggled to get up to closing speed on the interstate (where 97% of my work was done). Jury is out on the 103", but it appears to pull much harder (torque) and is quicker. The 88" was terrible on curves at speed. If one accelerated hard in a sweeper, the whole front end would shake and shimmy and become dangerous. I have been informed that the newly designed frame for the 103" has solved that problem. We will see. I have noticed that the 103" is more fuel hungry (less than 35 mpg) and ergo the need for the 6 gal. tank.

Just my thoughts

Motors

[Fireball]

INow, the biggest hurdle we've run into is our clothing. It's a hold over from calvary days. But no one makes uniform grade riding gear that isn't either sooo freaking hot to wear with a bullet proof vest or looks like you just got off of a space ship...


Here in California the Officers wear open faced helmets, slacks, and short sleeve shirts. I would think that looking like a spaceman would be worth it, compared to the cost of downtime due to road rash, etc.
Why doen't the Union (or whatever association they belong to) work to get them decent gear?

[bluedragon]

What were you going with?

We had looked for a uniform that was more comfortable in the heat and allowed layering in the cold. Our pants selection was 5.11 TDU's. We were going to have the cargo pockets sewn down, so they didn't bellow out. The TDU's offer knee pad inserts. We were also looking at the 5.11 polo shirt, they have long and short sleeve versions, and a traditional touring style motor boot.

We recently got modular helmets approved and have some really nice leather jackets made by Vance. Sit above our duty belt and have armor in the shoulders and elbows.

Our primary concern has been the boots. The traditional equestrian style offer no ankle protection. Since we were looking at a touring boot, we had thought of re-styling the whole uniform to be a little more approachable and comfortable. Doesn't go over well with the traditionalists, though.

[jdpfms]

The same hurdle we are working on to. Had a perfect uniform picked out, would have saved the department about 50% per officer on uniforms, but ultimately got shot down.

I've noticed in the last few months some of the motorcycle officers (some are state and some local) are wearing the police version of the Aerostich Roadcrafter. Now that is wise, but I will be on the watch to see if they go to a mesh setup for the summer months.

JDP

[curmudgeon]

I've noticed in the last few months some of the motorcycle officers (some are state and some local) are wearing the police version of the Aerostich Roadcrafter. Now that is wise, but I will be on the watch to see if they go to a mesh setup for the summer months.

JDP

Most of Oregon's Motor Officers use two piece Aerostich RoadCrafter Police Jacket and Pants. Along with Shoei Flip open helmets. Probably best looking gear and safest dressed officers in the country.

[motor2191]

Yeah, we tried the AeroStitch stuff and it would be great, for us, 3 to 6 weeks MAYBE. Most likely about 1 month of use. The other 10 months hover around the upper 80's to 90 mark with the humidity around 75%. Oh, did I mention that we have to wear bullet resistant vest too? Ugh! Last Monday I nearly suffered heat stroke, seriously. I stopped by a fire house and the medics gave me a bag of IV fluid's. I could only imagine what it would be like having to wear a full face, 500+ Denier nylon over pants, bullet proof vest and a vented jacket. UGH! I'd have to work the shift from 0100 hours to 0120 hours, with five of those minutes spent standing in the local 7-Eleven walk-in freezer. LOL! For all you guys in the Northwest or Northeast, when day starts out and it's 80 degree's at 0530 hours...Uh, well, I think you can get the idea what 3 in the afternoon might be like in August (HELL is no longer a threat, it's not as humid! LOL!!)

[Spencer]

We had looked for a uniform that was more comfortable in the heat and allowed layering in the cold. Our pants selection was 5.11 TDU's. We were going to have the cargo pockets sewn down, so they didn't bellow out. The TDU's offer knee pad inserts. We were also looking at the 5.11 polo shirt, they have long and short sleeve versions, and a traditional touring style motor boot.

We recently got modular helmets approved and have some really nice leather jackets made by Vance. Sit above our duty belt and have armor in the shoulders and elbows.

Our primary concern has been the boots. The traditional equestrian style offer no ankle protection. Since we were looking at a touring boot, we had thought of re-styling the whole uniform to be a little more approachable and comfortable. Doesn't go over well with the traditionalists, though.

5.11 also makes a nylon canvas version of that pant that is a whole lot more abrasion resistant than the standard pant and I find it to be cooler if you are moving. It is the same cut with the double layered backside and knees, with the knee pockets for pads. If you use a quality knee pad its not a bad choice. Better than the duty pants but obviously not as good as a true riding pant. With 5.11 being an approved uniform for many, and @ $50 a pair it might be worth a look.

Spencer

[jdpfms]

Yeah, we tried the AeroStitch stuff and it would be great, for us, 3 to 6 weeks MAYBE. Most likely about 1 month of use. The other 10 months hover around the upper 80's to 90 mark with the humidity around 75%. Oh, did I mention that we have to wear bullet resistant vest too? Ugh! Last Monday I nearly suffered heat stroke, seriously. I stopped by a fire house and the medics gave me a bag of IV fluid's. I could only imagine what it would be like having to wear a full face, 500+ Denier nylon over pants, bullet proof vest and a vented jacket. UGH! I'd have to work the shift from 0100 hours to 0120 hours, with five of those minutes spent standing in the local 7-Eleven walk-in freezer. LOL! For all you guys in the Northwest or Northeast, when day starts out and it's 80 degree's at 0530 hours...Uh, well, I think you can get the idea what 3 in the afternoon might be like in August (HELL is no longer a threat, it's not as humid! LOL!!)

Olympia mesh gear has great liners that add waterproofness and warmth. It can be worn in summers and has great ventilation. I've seen guys ride with the mesh/liner combo in winters and claim to be comfortable. And a jacket and pant combo is lots cheaper than a roadcrafter (under $400). I bet this would give you the warm weather and cold weather usefullness you need.

JDP

[Motors]

Great suggestion. Perhaps we should start a new thread re the need for safe riding gear for Motorofficers. Think I will.

Motors

[jdpfms]

Great suggestion. Perhaps we should start a new thread re the need for safe riding gear for Motorofficers. Think I will.

Motors

While I'm making suggestions. I've got a pair of these boots for summer wear. They are made by Oxtar but now sold and licensed thru TCX I think. They are waterproof but have a mesh type set up that is cooler for hot weather. The Oxtar infinity or matrix would also be great the rest of the year. I included a link to motoliberty about the Olympia line. One quote in there says they are good year round in Dallas with the liner. The jacket can also be had in different colors I think. Silver jacket and black pants is what I have, and that might go well for a motorcycle police rider.


http://www.newenough.com/boots/waterproof_sport_street_touring_boots/tcx/air_tech_xcr_touring_motorcycle_boots.html

https://www.motoliberty.com/prod_detail.asp?Prod_ID=254

JDP

[foilrat]

For me, the bike is much more responsive than the HD. The riding position lends itself to slow speed, tight manuevers. It is much quicker than an HD and more reliable, IMO. Much quieter and even with the heat issues the ST has, it is still not as hot in the summertime as the HD.

All in all, I love the ST as a police motorcycle.

I have a question for you, then.

First, I'm not motors. But, I took a police riding course here in Seattle (http://www.northwest-motorcycle.com/index.htm) (http://www.northwest-motorcycle.com/index.htm%29). I rode funeral escorts here in Seattle for a number of years and had a succession of HD's: 2 road kings and 2 electra glides, all 88" police models.

I've only had the ST for a little over a year and haven't had the same practice time as on the HD, but it seems to me I could lock-turn and drag a floor board on the electa-glide with ease.

I have a harder time getting the ST within 16' than I did the HD.

Above 30 mph, however, no contest.

Do any of you feel the same way, or do I just need to set up some key-holes and iron-crosses and go practice...

Also, I can't imagine riding an HD in Florida. In the summer here it would get plenty hot enough on to of that bike, and our rides were an hour or two at the most! I just can't imagine what the heat must have been like for 10+ hours down in Florida. Yikes.

As an aside, I don't do the funeral escorts anymore. I had two close calls within a month and said it wasn't worth it. Traded my 05 'Glide in for an 05 ST the next day. One of the best decisions I ever made.

Anyway, I was wondering what your thoughts were...

thanks,

david

[O24]

I would like to coment on the HD, Loud old technology bike that was never designed to be a working bike. HD is all about tradition at a cost, to a motor officer that is Safety, Safety, Safety. I rode a HD Road King Police bike for two years on duty. All weather conditions and during both day traffic and night DUI patrol. The bike is loud, heavy, and about as from advanced as possible.
My agency is now on ST-P which I love. The bike brings me back to the Kawaski KZ1000 and I just completed my recert class in the Kawasaki cone patterns. The acceleration, cornering and most of all braking are top notch.
I think all agencies need to ask themselves whats important tradition (good or bad) or Safety.

As for Foilrat, if you can do a key-hole or figure 8 cone pattern on a HD then you better be doing it on a ST. All cone patterns should be done around the 5mph and don't cheat by dipping the bike try staying upright, use the gray area in the clutch and lock turn the bars. Remember to give a little throttle to not stall. Good luck

[curmudgeon]

I wonder why the evaluation done by Los Angeles PD (I think) had negative comments about the ST while most motor officers on this Forum really like it.

[motorman35]

**** MY OPINION ONLY AND ONLY MY OPINION ***

I may be in a decent position to comment on the alternatives. I have ridden the following, which effects my comments: 1999 BMW R1100RTP, 2003 BMW R1150RTP, 2007 HD Electra Glide, 2008 Honda ST1300P.

Keep in mind that I am in the northwest and ride year around (-5 or 7 days in last year because of ice (8 months generally in rain, rain, or 40 mph sideways rain).

BMW misnomers: Cost is a factor at purchase. In actuality, unless you have an in house mechanic for set-up they are relatively equal. Lets look

Honda +/- 14.5 K + wiring, lights, etc, etc
BMW +/- 18.5 k

BMW is basically all set-up plug and play scenario with crash bars, etc. Add graphics and radio, radar and ride. Comes black and white (wiring plug and play under warranty)

Honda needs full wiring, set-up, radio, graphics, radar, larger Odessey gel cell battery, tires, crash protection, etc and paint? (set-up warranty is up to set-up vendor..some better, some worse, some royal pain for service. We like the company we go through and they bend over backwards for us..go above and beyond to make us happy. In reality this is around a $3500.00 + with parts add to the base price)

Cost is within $800-1K in end if set-up equal, really so it is basically a wash.

Functionally they are both very good platforms with a little different feel.

Best way to describe is the BMW is more touring oriented with softer suspension until mid stroke and higher center of gravity. Aftermarket fully loaded with options. BMW better for power/battery management by 100%. Stable from 0-mach 1. Great ABS brakes.

Honda is more sport oriented of the two. It has a lower center of gravity and rides like it. Aftermarket fully loaded with options. Honda has power/battery management flaws without larger gel battery (mounted sideways instead of inline but bulges right body panels which can cause cracks. Have replaced mine once already.) Set-up really effects Honda stability at overtaking speeds...follow mounting triangle guidelines and use u shaped side bars or slider poles in front of bags utilizing pillion peg area mounting...do not use full rear crash bars EVER.) Linked ABS brakes which can be + or -.

Maintenance is where the split starts in my humble opinion. Especially in training constantly in tight patterns. Honda has a wet clutch. BMW dry clutch. Expect to pay $1.5 K per clutch on BMW once a year. Honda is $400. No signs of wet clutch weakness.

BMW service interval is 6K miles. Honda is 4K. Warranty is 3 year 42K on BMW. Honda 3 year/36K. Maintenance/parts plans for everything but wear items seem to be readily available on Honda...not seen or heard of generally for BMW, although our dealers are very responsive and go out of there way.

So what about the Harley you ask. It is not in the same league in my opinion. Here's why:

HD great city bike, but over 85 mph is buffeting hell. In city great, city with highway interfaces or rural highways/interstates no go in my opinion.

Heat injuries common. ABS brake failures. Driveability issues. 5 starters in 8 months. Foot boards X 2-3 sets a year as they get worn razor sharp from tight turns. The HD dealer lease deals great (led us to HD for cost), but a problem generally because you are locked into one dealer who can charge what they want for service/parts and don't have to treat you nice or take care of problems in a hurry to keep you.

I didn't realize how much effort it took to ride the thing for a shift until I went back to the Beemer for shifts while the HD was always in the shop. Wow...I wasn't worn out at the end of the day!

Half A#%&d HD solutions. Solution to overheating and detonation...install a HD service update mapping that shut down rear cylinder below 1200 rpm. Of course this caused other issues, especially with low speed manuevering with surges. The HD twins shake like a paint mixer...imagine 1/2 a HD twin. LE HD Service Bulletin just before we terminated our lease (We had enough x 2): Layman's translation "Reference starter failures. Inherent to city use and not seeing these problems in rural areas. Not a manufacturer problem, but user issue. Encourage users to not stop and start so often". What the Heck? I thought I was in an alternate universe, afterall the LE package bikes. I guess we could solve the problem by not making traffic stops? My admin finally had enough.

So was it just our issue?...I thought it was maybe something I was doing or not doing. Neighboring agency had 2/07's = 11 starters and one rear brake failure and one front brake failure. Agency near one of my vendors in So Cal got 19 new 07 HD. 15 within 3 months had starter failures. Okay maybe there's an issue? You ask about neighboring agency...oh they're on Honda's now also...when they terminated their HD lease also. They were a die hard HD agency and are a two officer unit and this was their 3rd 2-year lease (bikes #5 and 6).

On the HD positive side...everybody would stop and tell us how beautiful our bike was and it sounded cool if you like the whole cruiser sound. My understanding is that for 08' they went to Brembo ABS brakes and an auto decomp head and have not heard the same amount of issues, but then I am aware of only three agencies that still have Harley's in Oregon anymore. One couldn't find a Honda (wanted to) and settled. Others are waiting until lease termination to switch.

*** ONLY MY OPINION AND MY OPINION ONLY ***

[Motors]

Hi Motorman35,

Interesting reading and opinion.

BTW the "new" BMW R1200RT(P) now has a wet clutch.

Motors

[tnman]

Hi Motorman35,

Interesting reading and opinion.

BTW the "new" BMW R1200RT(P) now has a wet clutch.

Motors


Web site for BMW shows all new 08 features and wet clutch is not listed - specs still show single disc dry clutch.

[motor2191]

Same goes Motorman35...We had the same problems PLUS felt heat issues. I will disagree with you on the statement that the H-D makes a great city. It surely does not! The paint shaker motor and the engine heat while out in the heat really sucked! Not to mention that your legs roasted in the summer time here in Flori"duh". I'm not sure why the LAPD didn't like the Honda either. So far we couldn't be more pleased with it, aside from the battery issue that is. That one drove me nuts for a while until someone told me about the Odyssey resolve. Now it's much better, I can shut off the bike at traffic stops without the worry of a restart. Anyways, the Honda makes a great police mount. I wish that Honda would partner up with a emergency light manufacturer along with MC Enterprises and produce a full turn key model just like the BMW. That would be nice! You order your bike and when it shows up at the dealer it's nearly ready to go to work on. Slap on your sticker and plug in your radar and you're done....Ah, how nice, but I guess Honda will never listen to us....

[motorman35]

Sorry if I got the clutch system on the R1200RTP wrong, but I believe it is still a dry clutch system. I really think that the BMW's very soon will have an water cooled twin or in-line 4 (like the F800 and new sport bike) motor if not in 09' I am sure that we will see it in 10'. There is also some banter about a in-line 6 and a triple if you keep up on those rumors. The bikes, in my opinion, will be a much closer match at that next redesign, especially with a wet clutch and water cooling.

I have heard of a few agencies utilizing FJR's in NZ and Australia, but not a route that the US seems to take (converting civilian bikes). If Honda doesn't fix the US supply issue, there will be a huge opportunity for Yamaha or Kawasaki to take over a good portion of the market place.

At this point, if Kawasaki re-enetered the market with a LE model Concours 14 everybody would have to seriously step up their game to compete. My understanding is that the Concours, based on reviews, has 10+ HP on the BMW and FJR and nearly 25 HP on the Honda. Torque numbers also favor the Kawasaki. I think it would actually be good to have 4 choices ( + HD rumor has it that they are about to buy controlling interest in MV Augusta. They also released a new LE version of the Buell Ulysses) as development would accelerate for all to compete in the market place.

A couple things that I would change to the Honda would be a gear selection display and I have always been a fan of the 6 speed transmission (Honda seems to have a general aversion to 6 speeds for some reason with only a couple models where convenient?)

[Motors]

Motorman35, no you have it right! My mistake! The R1200RT-P does have a dry clutch, a real disadvantage to many of our Motorofficer riding skills. Although, if one knows how to operate that clutch, it would seem that many Motorofficers can handle it.

Sorry about the misinformation.

Motors

[motor2191]

Secret Squirrel stuff here.....But you didn't hear it from me....Kawasaki dropped off a Conny 14 to the folks at MC Enterprises. If you're not a ST motorcop you might not know the significance of this. MC Enterprises makes after market crash/engine guards for the ST1300PA. Is anybody drawing their own conclusions to this point??? Also, the fellow that ran the KZ-P program is now the program manager for the US Concours 14 program....Is anybody drawing their own conclusions to this point too??? I HOPE we might be seeing the revision of the Kawasaki police motorcycle program based on the 14....But on that note, I sure hope Honda decides to revamp the ST and makes, uh, I don't know, maybe something like a ST1400....oooohhhhhh, aaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

[motorman35]

I've always been a die hard Honda guy, but The Concours 14 is a six speed and really has some very nice features (KPASS is a natural fit for LE users). Add the HP/Torque advantages, Honda's supply problems and I bet the Kawasakis will catch on very quickly if they put the package together, especially if they keep their $1-1.5 K price advantage.

If the Concours 14 enters the market at a competitive price point, everyone will have to up their game!!! :policeST: I believe that this may be a very good time to be a motor officer, if this is true, because development of this market segment will be very competitive.

[sandy]

The few times that I've been up close to take a picture of the
police ST1300......The cops are cute ! :)

[Shuey]

Motor2191 earlier mentioned "Odyssey resolve" for improving the battery situation. Please explain.

With the price of gas soaring, I'm thinking more agencies are going to be looking at adding motors to their force. Anyone out there seeing that yet?

[motor2191]

The stock Yuasa battery doesn't "live up" to what we in law enforcement need it to do. Subsequently, we, and many others, have switched to the Odyssey line to improve the "stand by" run time of our batteries. It's hard to close a roadway or lane for 30 minutes or so and when you try to start your bike all you get is a "click click click"...In the civilian world the "stand by" issue might never arise, but when you need to shut off your police bike but leave all those flashing lights on it's a big one!

[Shuey]

Thanks for the response. :) I'll check out the Odyssey line as I've been stuck with the "click, click, click" sound several times in the past few months. :doh1:

[Scotty]

The UK ran 1100 pans first following on from the BMW K series that had awful handling, we moved on to St 1300s because the 1100 was so good at what it needed to do. Having taught advanced police biking on the 1300 it was superb until the dreaded wobble and weave that killed and maimed a few. It came in at 105mph and developed into a tank slapper and spat you off if you didnt slow down!! A few changes by Honda moved the wobble up to 110 and then 115. They just could not fix it and regretibly the 1300 was withdrawn from the UK police market in 2007. Shame, it handled well, scraped pegs and plastic and was stable, the overtake was always there and it was refined around town. We now have BMW RT 1200s and Yamaha FJR 1300. The BMW handles well but the boxer engine is awfull and overheats doing slow escorts!!! The FJR performance is good but finish and reliabilty is poor. Bring back our 1300 I say and Mr Honda fix the weave and buck!!!!!

[motor2191]

Didn't you guys on the other side of the pond get the "word" on the "wobble"? It was caused by that rear wing light message board dohicky many agencies used. Us, in the US, (LOL!) didn't have that style so subsequently we never had the wobble issue. Personally, I've pursued many bad guys well over the 110 mph mark and it was as STable as a rock. I love my ST, but I wish it had a six speed gear box and Honda would partner with Whelen, Federal Signal, TOMAR or anybody for that matter and produce a turn key model with all the bells and whistles...You would just need to pick the color of your emergency lights when you placed your order. Oh yeah, one more thing, FIX the damn battery issue too! Don't make your customer find the answer to a problem...That's the one thing I'm unhappy about with Honda. They'll tell you there is no problem with the battery, it's just the way you're using it... DUH! It's a cop bike, how should it be used? I guess corporate thinks we should STart the bike and ride it for a minimum of 4 hours before shutting it off each time.

[motorman35]

Wobbles: The truth was spoken by 2191...it is the 8" dual air dams on the full rear crash bars or big top boxes. Mine is stable as a rock also. I've had it up to oh 56 or 57 mph :D and there is no hint of wobble even in semi-truck wash. Nobody here that has had slider poles or the u-shaped bag guards have had the issue.

One of the major agencies in our state dropped the Honda for the wobbles. Honda took the worst (beginning wobbles at 88-90 mph) to their Cali test facility and stripped the extra installed equipment until it went away. They could not induce it up to the limiter. Minus the rear crash cage (with the air foils) and the problem was resolved.

You have to be cognizant of the suggested set-up triangle from basically the front of the fairing slider pods to the front 1/3 of the bags. No stability issues. There is a Honda service memo on it. I also personally believe that the stock Dunlops negatively effect stability to, as a tire change seemed to take away any subtle hint of the light shimmy feel.

Battery: Remember the Odyssey gel cell is installed sideways and bulges the right side cowl. Take a piece of cut mouse pad or similar material and adhere it to the inside of the side cowl where the battery corner hits it to prevent the corner indenting the side cowl and cracking it. (Will be round bulge instead of wearing sharp crease that will crack).

[curmudgeon]

Hey thanks for the info on the wobble situation. Many of us in this country have been scratching our heads wondering what the heck wobbles the Brits were talking about. Most came to the conclusion it had something to do with top boxes etc. Seems we were close to the truth. I'm surprised Honda was able to figure out the problem here, but not over there.

[motor2191]

Here, I found a picture of the "wing" lightbar message board dohicky thing I was referring to...(It's on the very back half of the bike where the top would noramly sit) With that image, do you understand how that additional "drag" could cause additional down force on the rear half of the motorcycle, thus making the front end feel light with the end result being a "wobble"...Which at high speeds...EWGH! Scary!!

[Motors]

Motor2191,

Could you provide us with the model number on the replacement battery?

Thanks,

Motors

[motor2191]

Sure, it's an Odyssey PC 545. But with that, you'll need the associated brackets to hold this new larger battery. It's a bit bigger than the OEM and it sits on it's side to fit in the battery compartment area. You'll need to do some modifications to the battery box (ie, cut it out) but it fits under the OEM brake lines. You could make your own brackets but Huntington Beach Honda makes the brackets for this model battery. The battery will cost about $100 and the bracket cost is about $75. So with shipping, about $200 for both items. It's well worth the effort...Before, with the OEM, I could only get about 20-30 minutes of standby with the lights on, now they can run for about 1.5 hours.

*ask for Cameron Hunter at HB Honda, he knows the Odyssey bracket #.

http://www.odysseysoutheast.com/pc545-battery.p

http://www.hbhonda.com/custompage2.asp?pg=policebikes

[Lake Cle Elum]

Secret Squirrel stuff here.....But you didn't hear it from me....Kawasaki dropped off a Conny 14 to the folks at MC Enterprises. If you're not a ST motorcop you might not know the significance of this. MC Enterprises makes after market crash/engine guards for the ST1300PA. Is anybody drawing their own conclusions to this point??? Also, the fellow that ran the KZ-P program is now the program manager for the US Concours 14 program....Is anybody drawing their own conclusions to this point too??? I HOPE we might be seeing the revision of the Kawasaki police motorcycle program based on the 14....But on that note, I sure hope Honda decides to revamp the ST and makes, uh, I don't know, maybe something like a ST1400....oooohhhhhh, aaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

Don't get too excited waiting for a Connie 14 Police version. I had the very first Police Kawasaki in the State of Washington (May 1977). A lot of us riding the early model provided the factory with a lot of input. We always suggested things like shaft drive, liquid cooling, better handling and other improvements. Each year, we were promised a new police model would be out the following year. I even have pictures taken in the late '90's of a prototype Vulcan Police model.

Kawasaki's position is that there is too much legal exposure in producing a police model. The early KZ's had some high speed handling issues due to the mounting of the radio's. They paid out several times in lawsuits, made improvements to the mounting system and retro-fited the bikes already on the road.

Rumor is, they stayed with the old air-cooled KZ all those years as they didn't want to go thru that process again......