Looking for two new tents, and I know nothing about tents.

[brianm767]

yes it's long, but I need some info or advise.

Ok here's the deal, my son and I are thinking about getting two tents so we can spend the night up in the hills, at most it might be two nights in different spots, we dont really plan on doing any real camping, just riding around in the Sierras, finding a camp sight and crashing for the night,

We would only use them in good weather, if we get rained on then some thing went terribly wrong in our planning, and yes I know, some times it happens, forecast or not.

And yes again , I know, you get what you pay for, but that being said, and due to the fact, we may only use them once, and say screw this, or maybe we'll use them a couple or a few times a year, and only in the summer , we don't want to spend a ton on a tent, were looking at some of the Eurekas for around the $100 dollar mark. they seem to be a decent looking tent for the price?

A few questions, it looks like most of these tents are mostly mesh, so that means if your in them with a light, you have no privacy? I don't want people looking at my bootie, I'm shy that way, and no one should ever have to endure that! but I guess the mesh makes for good ventilation? is there any problems with allot of mesh? and FYI, as you can probably tell, I've only camped in a tent once that I can remember, so this is all French to me. I assume you use the rain fly for rain (duh) and more privacy?

Also I see some with open vestibules, and some with full vestibules, do you prefer one over the other? are the full ones worth the extra prices?

And also the same question about aluminum poles, I really don't care about an extra pound of weight, since I wont be hiking with it, which is better and why?

I dont want to buy something I'm disappointed in, but I don't really want to spend more than I need to either, if it works out and we like staying in a ten, we can upgrade at a later date.

I would like it to pack up small, but honestly, it's probably going to get strapped to the seat, will and 18.5" pole, fit in the saddle or top box?

here's what were considering, Any one have a reason to buy or stay away from these?

Eureka, Tetragon 5, looks nice, and inexpensive, around $65 delivered, but it packs at 24", that seems to long to me.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/brianm767/1213-2.jpg

Apex 2, Looks nice, about $80 dollars shipped. + a $10 rebate.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/brianm767/1417-2.jpg

Apex 2 XT, looks the same as the standard 2's, just full vestibules, $99 shipped + $10 rebate?
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/brianm767/Eureka_2628104-08_LG.jpg

Pinnacle Pass (factory second) after shipping and taxes, it's about $100 or a non factory second, it's $120 +$10 rebate, and about $140 + $20 rebate for the XT model with the full vestibules. this looks like the same thing as the Apex's but with aluminum poles.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/brianm767/Eureka_2628100-07_LG.jpg

Was also looking at the Kelty, Grand Mesa 2 tent, for $100 shipped.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/brianm767/kelty_grand_mesa_2.jpg

[E the B]

Of the tents you have listed, I like the Kelty best because the fly covers the entire tent and ample mesh will provide good ventilation.

Quality remains long after price is forgotten.

[Tankereng]

I use a three man coleman...packs fairly small and only cost me about $60 at wal-mart. I use it about once...maybe twice a year....

[redst05]

I like the kelty. price is about right. it looks like it will be a nice summer tent due to the mesh and full fly.

[Mellow]

If you don't camp much... You will want a tent with a side opening... those that open on the end are a little bit of a pain to crawl out of. I have the Apex 2 XTA - I don't believe they make that one anymore (aluminum poles). I think the pinacle pass replaced it?

The mesh is necessary to allow for circulation. If not, there would be lots of condensation on the inside. The rain fly will cover all the mesh areas so you'll still have some privacy.

If cost is a big deal, give walmart a try or dicks sporting goods a try:
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?searchSort=TRUE&categoryId=2279634&s=A-StorePrice-DSP&view=all

Dicks has some coleman and wenzel tents that are very affordable and good designs.

[dreddd2000]

Brian needs to ride more. Needs more relaxation. (Horrible pun delivery system: active) :scared2::duck:

[Saint Nut]

Aluminum poles - lighter than fiberglass (for backpacking) and very difficult to break. Fiberglass poles will break if you step on them but can usually be fixed up ok in a pinch with duct tape. Also, some fiberglass poles are harder to push through "pole pockets" if your tent has these. Most tents nowadays use clips instead of pockets so for your purposes, aluminum/fiberglass won't make much difference.

Vestibules - for your purpose, a lot depends on the dew. If there is a lot of dew in the morning, or rain of course, you'll want to store stuff under (inside) the vestibule so it will be dry in the morning. Open vestibules are nice if you run into bad weather and have to spend a lot of time inside the tent. With an open vestibule, you can at least see out. The full vestibules are nice if you run into really bad weather like a blizzard or windstorm with rain, because you can button up the tent then hunker down till it's over.

Mesh - when you breathe out, your breath carries with it a lot of water vapor. A lot! Over the course of a night, if the tent does not have good ventilation that water vapor will condense on the inside of the tent then start to drip on everything that's inside. So mesh is necessary. If you use the fly, try to stake out the edges as far as possible from the tent to promote lots of air circulation between the tent and the fly.

Packing - one option is to pack the tent in your luggage without the poles. Strap the poles by themselves under the tailrack or wherever makes sense.

Which tent? - all the tents you show there have walls that slope in fairly steeply. That's why they're cheaper-- they require less fabric. And they give you less room. The outer 8" or so of the floor can't be used. My tents have fairly vertical walls for the first 18" or so - this gives me a lot more room. This also means they have 3 or 4 poles instead of 2. I also look for easy set-up. That means finding a tent where all the poles are identical, and the set-up procedure is brainless. Something like THIS (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___27138)--

http://www.campmor.com/images/tents/27138.jpg

Also, even with a simple tent, you want to practice setting up and taking down the tent several times in your backyard until you can do it in under 5 minutes.

[AzDesertRider]

Saint Nut,

Very informative post.

Question: Tent Fabric; what are the differences & do you have a particular fabric preference? My wal-mart tent floor seems to be made from some kind of plastic fabric that does not like to roll up well when cold. The upper sections seem to be some kind of nylon?

The wal-mart tent has kept me dry & served me well for quite a few years now, but it's time for an upgrade.

[brianm767]

Aluminum poles - lighter than fiberglass (for backpacking) and very difficult to break. Fiberglass poles will break if you step on them but can usually be fixed up ok in a pinch with duct tape. Also, some fiberglass poles are harder to push through "pole pockets" if your tent has these. Most tents nowadays use clips instead of pockets so for your purposes, aluminum/fiberglass won't make much difference.

Vestibules - for your purpose, a lot depends on the dew. If there is a lot of dew in the morning, or rain of course, you'll want to store stuff under (inside) the vestibule so it will be dry in the morning. Open vestibules are nice if you run into bad weather and have to spend a lot of time inside the tent. With an open vestibule, you can at least see out. The full vestibules are nice if you run into really bad weather like a blizzard or windstorm with rain, because you can button up the tent then hunker down till it's over.

Mesh - when you breathe out, your breath carries with it a lot of water vapor. A lot! Over the course of a night, if the tent does not have good ventilation that water vapor will condense on the inside of the tent then start to drip on everything that's inside. So mesh is necessary. If you use the fly, try to stake out the edges as far as possible from the tent to promote lots of air circulation between the tent and the fly.

Packing - one option is to pack the tent in your luggage without the poles. Strap the poles by themselves under the tailrack or wherever makes sense.

Which tent? - all the tents you show there have walls that slope in fairly steeply. That's why they're cheaper-- they require less fabric. And they give you less room. The outer 8" or so of the floor can't be used. My tents have fairly vertical walls for the first 18" or so - this gives me a lot more room. This also means they have 3 or 4 poles instead of 2. I also look for easy set-up. That means finding a tent where all the poles are identical, and the set-up procedure is brainless. Something like THIS (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___27138)--

http://www.campmor.com/images/tents/27138.jpg

Also, even with a simple tent, you want to practice setting up and taking down the tent several times in your backyard until you can do it in under 5 minutes.

Thanks for the info, Saint Nut, it was very informative, I've heard every one talking about ventilation, I assumed it was for the out side temps, didn't even consider my breath being the reason for the condensation inside the tent, like I mentioned, I know nothing about tents, when I was a kid, we spent allot of time in the mountains, but we had access to a cabins, so the only tent experience I have is , a couple of years ago, we rented several tents from the Navy base, and I don't even remember what they were.

And I've red many people say don't try to camp out to save money, and were not, we love being in the hills, and sitting by the fire and just looking at the stars at night,

I really like the tent you linked, if we like staying in tents, that might be something to look at in the future, in fact if we like camping out, and we replace the tents later, we'll probably go with three man tents, but for now, since we also need to buy quality sleeping bags and some type of mattress or pad, ( a post for later) we'll probably stick with one of these or a similar one someone recommends.

Now I need to see if the tents were looking at have color coded or all the same poles, as you mentioned, I never even thought of that, I know the Kelty and the Eureka tetragon are all clip style, and the other Eureka's use clips and a short sleeve on one side of the tent.

I'm starting to like the Kelty, aluminum poles, full fly, all clip, very light, but it is a bit small, and the poles are still 20" , my son is a pretty big guy, and the Tetragon is the biggest of the tents on our short list. and the other Eureka's, have two doors, and two vestibules, Hmm? maybe the pinnacle pass factory second, Aluminum poles, two vestibules, two doors?? decisions, decisions

I was also looking at Cabella's, if I open their credit card, I get $20 off my first purchase, I could buy the Apex, for $89, -$20, then a $10 dollar rebate from Eureka, making it $59+tax. then close credit card. might be a good deal to start with, any one want to ride to Cabelal's in Boom Town this week end?

Is there any reason why fiberglass poles might be preferred over the Aluminum poles, or are the Aluminum always preferred due to weight and strength?

[Saint Nut]

. . . in fact if we like camping out, and we replace the tents later, we'll probably go with three man tents, but for now, since we also need to buy quality sleeping bags and some type of mattress or pad, (a post for later) we'll probably stick with one of these or a similar one someone recommends.

I forgot to mention about tent size. A tent with a floor size of 36x88 - that's a one-man tent. But the retailers call it a two-man tent. It is a two-man tent only if both men are the size of a 16-year old soccer player. Most "three-man" tents yes can be realistically used by two men.


Now I need to see if the tents were looking at have color coded or all the same poles, as you mentioned, I never even thought of that, I know the Kelty and the Eureka tetragon are all clip style, and the other Eureka's use clips and a short sleeve on one side of the tent.

Color-coded poles are great if you are making camp during daylight. But in twilight and at night, all colors are grey. Bring a headlamp.


Is there any reason why fiberglass poles might be preferred over the Aluminum poles, or are the Aluminum always preferred due to weight and strength?

I'm not aware of any advantage for fiberglass poles other than they are often cheaper than similar strength aluminum poles.

[Saint Nut]

Saint Nut,
Very informative post.

Question: Tent Fabric; what are the differences & do you have a particular fabric preference? My wal-mart tent floor seems to be made from some kind of plastic fabric that does not like to roll up well when cold. The upper sections seem to be some kind of nylon?

The wal-mart tent has kept me dry & served me well for quite a few years now, but it's time for an upgrade.

The plastic floor in your Walmart tent is probably tough (puncture resistant) and waterproof, but it won't pack down to a small size, and it makes the tent heavy. You get what you pay for. Good quality backpacking tents are made from nylon. Coated nylon, uncoated nylon, ripstop nylon, mesh nylon, whatever. Some of the extreme quality tents are made from more exotic fabrics.

[ST1300 Alicia]

Hey Brian
Come by and I'll show you what I have and why I bought them. 18"-20" poles to pack on M/C. You also want to get a Free-Standing Tent. I get all of my stuff from R.E.I. I use higher-end Back Packing Gear. Give me a call and you can see what I have.

[AzDesertRider]

The plastic floor in your Walmart tent is probably tough (puncture resistant) and waterproof, but it won't pack down to a small size, and it makes the tent heavy. You get what you pay for. Good quality backpacking tents are made from nylon. Coated nylon, uncoated nylon, ripstop nylon, mesh nylon, whatever. Some of the extreme quality tents are made from more exotic fabrics.


Thanks for the heads up, that's very helpful info.

[Imrubicon]

Price doe not always give you a better deal either way .
Just becaudse it cost more doe not mean it is more ,

[snowmoer]

As a park ranger I have seen and used all kinds of tents that are out there.

Lots of good info from Saint Nut. Your Cheep Wal Mart tent bottom will be made of the same stuff that those blue tarps are made out of. Water proof the first time or two, but after you fold it a few times, you are wet. They do have some good ones there, you just have to look at them.

Aluminum poles in a free standing tent are the only way to go. Fiberglass will just break if you look at them wrong. If you plan on using it for a few years, they dry out and break. Your better tents use Aluminum.

A two man tent is good for one man and gear. Saint Nut is right on again on this one. Get something you can sit up in and not hit your head. Laying down and trying to put your pants on is a pain. Depending on how you pack, you have a little more room to play with as far as size and weight go. The high price (200+) tents are made of very light weight stuff for people that are carrying it around on their backs.

From what I have seen from Cabala's and Bass Pro shop, you will pay full price or more for name brands unless it is on sale. If it is their brand, you get a good price, but check the quality. You are paying for all that cool stuff in the store.

REI, same thing unless it is on sale. And I am a member of REI.

The best place I have found is Campmore, or Sierra Trading Post.

Have fun shopping and enjoy your trip!

[KillSwitch]

Allow me to chime in here and contribute for a change....

In combination with the great info I've learned here in the
responses to one of my own posts, plus a lot of research
I've done before buying the tents I currently own,
here's what I've learned:

1) Two man tent for one man and gear.
2) Aluminum poles. No corrision. No splintering. Weigh nothing.
Shock-corded is pretty much standard for all poles.
3) Closed ended poles. IOW, they have pins on the ends that mate
with metal grommets fastened to webbing, that's attached to each
corners of the tent body. More on this when I get to sleeveless
tent body.
4) Free standing. You can set it up, and then stake it down,
and guywire it if necessary.
5) Sleeveless tent bodies.
All you do is spread out the tent body, attach the poles to
the four corners, raise the center of the tent body to the clip
at the center of the crossed poles, and then attach all the
remaining clips to their respective locations on the poles. Done.
You don't have to struggle with feeding the poles through
any sleeves in the tent body. Nothings worse than when you feed
a tent pole through a sleeve and the leading end of the open ended
tent pole fills up with earth. PITA. Then when you go to clean the
plugged end out, the other loose end fills up. ARGH!
Also when you take the tent down, you don't have to fight the poles
as you back/pull them out of the sleeves; just unclip, unclip, ....... ,
unclip, and the poles are free to be removed from the corners and
broken down.
6) Double doors for convenience.
7) Doors on the sides as opposed to the ends, convenience.
8) Full Fly down to the ground.
9) Lots of mesh for 3 season use, especially summer.
10) Double vestibule, convenience, expanded storage.
12) Fully taped seams in body as well as rainfly.
13) 1/4" diameter aluminum stakes.

All this I've come to appreciate from the purchase of a 'Half Dome 2 HC'
at REI, that came under recomendation from a backpacking friend.
Caught it on sale for $109, which I've heard happens a few times a year.
This tent is fantastic. I've slept in it a number of times this year,
twice in a torrential downpour to where the poles where bent in
the shape of a french curve, and not one drop of water made it's way
into the tent. After striking the tent, the poles remained as straight as the
day they were first taken out of the bag.

My reference tent is a Coleman Kvika, which I purchased for $50 from Costco.
Sleeved body, Hollow ended, Fiberglass poles, Untaped seams in the body.
Overall a nice tent, but nothing like the thought and quality put into the
'Half Dome' mentioned above.

Hope this helps.

There's an image of the REI tent in this gallery, from a trip last month.
http://home.comcast.net/~box4junk/Iowa%20MotoTrip%20-%20June%2028th,%202008/

[brianm767]

As a park ranger I have seen and used all kinds of tents that are out there.

Lots of good info from Saint Nut. Your Cheep Wal Mart tent bottom will be made of the same stuff that those blue tarps are made out of. Water proof the first time or two, but after you fold it a few times, you are wet. They do have some good ones there, you just have to look at them.

Aluminum poles in a free standing tent are the only way to go. Fiberglass will just break if you look at them wrong. If you plan on using it for a few years, they dry out and break. Your better tents use Aluminum.

A two man tent is good for one man and gear. Saint Nut is right on again on this one. Get something you can sit up in and not hit your head. Laying down and trying to put your pants on is a pain. Depending on how you pack, you have a little more room to play with as far as size and weight go. The high price (200+) tents are made of very light weight stuff for people that are carrying it around on their backs.

From what I have seen from Cabala's and Bass Pro shop, you will pay full price or more for name brands unless it is on sale. If it is their brand, you get a good price, but check the quality. You are paying for all that cool stuff in the store.

REI, same thing unless it is on sale. And I am a member of REI.

The best place I have found is Campmore, or Sierra Trading Post.

Have fun shopping and enjoy your trip!

So far the Eureka tents I've looked (Apex 2) at are the same price at Cabelas and Campmore,

Has any done business with mountainsports.com??
http://www.mountainsports.com/MSmain.asp?Option=Detail&Detail=058320
They seem to have the lowest prices, plus no sales tax or shipping charges, on the tents I'm looking at, I can get the Apex 2 XT for $99.90 plus get a $10 rebate,

And it looks like most of the tents were looking at are about 42.5" to 48" tall, that is short, but should be tall enough to sit up in.

As far as aluminum poles, we might have to spend a little more, because the Kelty or Rei tents with the Aluminum poles are either too expensive for us , or seem too small, I really like the factory second Pinnacle Pass, but I think I want a full fly, just in case it's windy or, I can get it with the full fly for $129 after rebates? I need to do a little more research, and look at the Kelty and REI's again. I did not like that the Eureka's have the tent sleeves, they are short, but none would be nice.

Good info killswitch

[KillSwitch]

An amendment.....

14) Gear loft storage. Need your flashlight in a hurry.... reach up and there
it is in the gear loft. A couple of mesh wall storage pockets are nice too...
for Pop-Tarts, of course.
15) Pop-up roof vent in full coverage rain fly done right to where it won't
let in the rain. All the mesh in the world isn't going to help you
if you can't get that stale moist trapped air out of the top of the tent.
16) Vinyl window in full coverage rainfly, nice feature. Longevity debatable.
17) Bright/Light color fabric. Less depressing on a rainy day when you're stuck
inside.
18) Easy pack-ability into the original included stuff sack, without having to
employ origami skills.

Regarding mattress pad.... do it right the first time..... Thermarest Luxury Camp.
Yeah I know, it's the price of the tent.
You won't regret it. This is coming from a side sleeper.
You can have the best tent in the world, but if you're not
comfortable when you're laying in it,..... it won't matter.

-

[Saint Nut]

Regarding mattress pad.... do it right the first time..... Thermarest Luxury Camp. Yeah I know, it's the price of the tent.
You won't regret it. This is coming from a side sleeper.
You can have the best tent in the world, but if you're not
comfortable when you're laying in it,..... it won't matter.
-

Hey, KillSwitch, I'll go you one better . . . . Exped Downmat in a Big Agnes bag. Now that's the way to sleep in the backcountry!

From what I have seen from Cabala's and Bass Pro shop, you will pay full price or more for name brands unless it is on sale. If it is their brand, you get a good price, but check the quality. You are paying for all that cool stuff in the store.

REI, same thing unless it is on sale. And I am a member of REI.

The best place I have found is Campmor, or Sierra Trading Post.


I buy some stuff at REI, but for big ticket items, I surf the net. Have probably bought more stuff at Sierra Trading Post than any other.

All said, Brian, check out these tents at STP that are under $200, have aluminum poles, good flies, lots of mesh, and plenty of room for one man--

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/322,88182_Marmot-Titan-Tent-Backpacking-.html
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/322,29882_Sierra-Designs-Baku-Tent-1-Person-3-Season.html
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/322,88042_Sierra-Designs-Delta-Tent.html

[KillSwitch]

Hey, KillSwitch, I'll go you one better . . . . Exped Downmat in a Big Agnes bag. Now that's the way to sleep in the backcountry!

+1 $$$


I buy some stuff at REI, but for big ticket items, I surf the net. Have probably bought more stuff at Sierra Trading Post than any other.

All said, Brian, check out these tents at STP that are under $200, have aluminum poles, good flies, lots of mesh, and plenty of room for one man--

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/322,88182_Marmot-Titan-Tent-Backpacking-.html
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/322,29882_Sierra-Designs-Baku-Tent-1-Person-3-Season.html
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/322,88042_Sierra-Designs-Delta-Tent.html

+1 on STP and the tent recommendations above. STP usually has some spectacular deals. I've seen that particular Marmot tent and several other Marmot's setup in the woods. Nice stuff. If not for the $109 REI bargain at the time, my second choice would've probably been something like that Marmot above. The features are very similar to the ones I've mentioned in the REI tent.

[Gti20vturbo]

Fiberglass will just break if you look at them wrong. If you plan on using it for a few years, they dry out and break. Your better tents use Aluminum.

A lot of good info here but the statement above is so absolute. Again it depends on the quality of what you purchase.

I have a 15 year old Alaskan Guide Model 4 season tent with um............fiberglass poles. This tent gets used at least 5 times a year and not once has any of poles even hinted at breaking. Oh and here is the cool part, its an Alaskan Guide Model tent and the first 3 years of its life it spent providing shelter for me and my hunting buddies just north of King Salmon and Dillingham Alaska in weather that would crush your average mobile home. :eek:

The tent is available with aluminum poles but since I would never backpack this tent I wanted something I could repair in the field if I ever had a problem and went with fiberglass. Its not so easy to fix a bent aluminum pole and I have seen MANY bent ones. In my opinion (which is based on my experience with various tents) the only advantage aluminum has over fiberglass is weight. :)

[brianm767]

A lot of good info here but the statement above is so absolute. Again it depends on the quality of what you purchase.

I have a 15 year old Alaskan Guide Model 4 season tent with um............fiberglass poles. This tent gets used at least 5 times a year and not once has any of poles even hinted at breaking. Oh and here is the cool part, its an Alaskan Guide Model tent and the first 3 years of its life it spent providing shelter for me and my hunting buddies just north of King Salmon and Dillingham Alaska in weather that would crush your average mobile home. :eek:

The tent is available with aluminum poles but since I would never backpack this tent I wanted something I could repair in the field if I ever had a problem and went with fiberglass. Its not so easy to fix a bent aluminum pole and I have seen MANY bent ones. In my opinion (which is based on my experience with various tents) the only advantage aluminum has over fiberglass is weight. :)

I was wondering about this, yes I will admit that aluminum would be lighter and stronger, but is fiberglass such junk I should not buy a tent with Fiberglass poles?

Our use would be very minimal, and although I would prefer Aluminum, we are on a very limited budget, and most of the Eureka tents that are below $150 are fiberglass, and most of the REI or Kelty tents are either too spendy, or are too small or I don't like the fly set up.

I thought Eureka entry level tents were pretty decent tents for the casual user, it seems if fiberglass was such junk, they wouldn't use it in so many of them, yes I will say Aluminum is better, and maybe it's like you said, it depends on the manufacture,

So who has experience with some of the Eureka tents I listed with fiberglass poles? how have they held up?


I went to trailspace.com and the reviews on the Eureka tents I'm lookin at are actually pretty good, the Apex 2 Xt gets 4.5 out of 5, thats with 14 reviews, the REI Half dome only gets a 3 out of 5, but that is with only 4 reviews?

[Gti20vturbo]

If you can, check the diameter of the poles. The tiny fiberglass poles on the very low end stuff is what scares people away from fiberglass poles. The fiberglass poles on my Cabela tent are at least 3/8" thick with thick walls (IE heavy). I think the aluminum poles on my Kelty are closer to 1/2" diameter. Stay away from anything smaller than what I listed and you should be fine.

[brianm767]

If you can, check the diameter of the poles. The tiny fiberglass poles on the very low end stuff is what scares people away from fiberglass poles. The fiberglass poles on my Cabela tent are at least 3/8" thick with thick walls (IE heavy). I think the aluminum poles on my Kelty are closer to 1/2" diameter. Stay away from anything smaller than what I listed and you should be fine.

Yah the Eureka tents are 8.5 MM, I think that's pretty close to the equivalent of a 3/8" .

I'll keep my eye open, maybe we'll come across a sale, or a good EBAY deal, or I might just fork out some extra to buy a higher end tent.,

[Saint Nut]

Eureka is owned by Johnson Outdoors of Racine, Wisconsin, founded by one of the heirs to the Johnson&Johnson Company. Besides Eureka, they also make Old Town canoes, and Silva compasses. It is a quality American company that makes quality stuff and they've been doing it for four decades. I used a Eureka tent for years and years when I first started backpacking, and both my son and I used their external frame backpacks (no longer in production) on Boy Scout 50-mile hikes.

The Apex 2XT has two fiberglass poles of equal length, set-up can be done blindfolded with a broken collarbone in under 5-minutes, the fly goes all the way to the ground, and the size and weight meets your requirements. I'd have no reservation at all about the fiberglass poles. They are smaller than 3/8th's inch diameter but bigger than 5/16th's. These poles, once deployed and in place, will work just fine and last for years. Just don't step on them, or try to sit on your tent!

If the comments here have you worried, go to Home Depot and in the plumbing dept find a metal or plastic pipe about 12" long and with a inside diameter big enough to fit over the bulb on the end of the Apex tent poles. Wrap 3 ft. of duct tape around it and throw it in your tent bag with the poles. If a pole breaks, you have what you need to repair it.

[brianm767]

Eureka is owned by Johnson Outdoors of Racine, Wisconsin, founded by one of the heirs to the Johnson&Johnson Company. Besides Eureka, they also make Old Town canoes, and Silva compasses. It is a quality American company that makes quality stuff and they've been doing it for four decades. I used a Eureka tent for years and years when I first started backpacking, and both my son and I used their external frame backpacks (no longer in production) on Boy Scout 50-mile hikes.

The Apex 2XT has two fiberglass poles of equal length, set-up can be done blindfolded with a broken collarbone in under 5-minutes, the fly goes all the way to the ground, and the size and weight meets your requirements. I'd have no reservation at all about the fiberglass poles. They are smaller than 3/8th's inch diameter but bigger than 5/16th's. These poles, once deployed and in place, will work just fine and last for years. Just don't step on them, or try to sit on your tent!

If the comments here have you worried, go to Home Depot and in the plumbing dept find a metal or plastic pipe about 12" long and with a inside diameter big enough to fit over the bulb on the end of the Apex tent poles. Wrap 3 ft. of duct tape around it and throw it in your tent bag with the poles. If a pole breaks, you have what you need to repair it.

Thanks, that makes me feel better,

Would you recommend getting the Apex 2 with the normal fly or the 2 XTA with a full fly? I think it only works out to $20 more, and I assume you could leave the full fly open and folded back if it's not windy or raining?

[CDNolddude]

I like the Eureka ones... dont discount the timberline 2 man, which is really good for 1 person and 2 if needed. I've had mine since 1978 and its only this last year that I could use some new shock cord for the aluminum poles, but havent bothered ordering them yet,,,and it fits easily into the large ortlib bag along with all other camping gear.

[Saint Nut]

Thanks, that makes me feel better,
Would you recommend getting the Apex 2 with the normal fly or the 2 XTA with a full fly? I think it only works out to $20 more, and I assume you could leave the full fly open and folded back if it's not windy or raining?

I'd get the 2XT. One thing nice about the full fly is if you are away from your tent you can button it up tight. Then if some casual passerby with sticky fingers comes through your camp, well he won't know for sure if anybody's in there. But with the open fly, all they have to do is look in.

The door to the fly rolls back and I think theres a velcro strap to hold it open. The other thing I'll do sometimes, especially if it's a nice night and fairly warm, I'll deploy the fly then I'll disconnect the attachments on one side and push the fly over the top of the tent and down to the ground. If bad weather comes up in the middle of the night, all I have to do is jump out, grab the free edge, pull it back over the top of the tent, clip a couple of clips, and then jump back into my bag.

[BluegrassPicker]

[QUOTE=Saint Nut;500313]
http://www.campmor.com/images/tents/27138.jpg

QUOTE]

I have a very similar model to this tent and there is one other advantage which I like - having the doors on the side of you when laying down. This makes it easier to get in and out and also provides a better view.

This is one of my favorite features in addition to the ones you mentioned.

[brianm767]

OK well I bought two tents, I hope their ok, it seems like the price was right considering their list price, and I really don't like the look of the pole set up, just looks too busy to me, and maybe more difficult to set up?

Well here's what I got, I was shopping around and I went to Amazon.com, I guess they have numerous things on sale on Friday? or maybe it was just the normal sale price, I found them under the 50% off tab, any ways they had the Kelty Pagosa 2 for $96.42 delivered, I think it's last years model, list for the 2007 Pagosa is $200, they have another Pagosa 2 (2008) and it's 204.95 at Amazon.

I also signed up for their Visa and received another $30 off, making it a total of $162.84 total , making each tent $81.42, (they were cheaper today so I got a price adjustment this morning, it now makes each tent $73.71 , thats includning their visa $30 discount)

I would think If I don't like them I could easily put them on EBAY and get my money or more out of them, their on there for $159.99 with a free foot print, and I've found it a couple of other places for about $140 with no foot print.

It comes with DAC Featherlite NSL poles, sounds good, what ever that means?

OK, Do I need a OEM foot print? or is there some thing else I can or should use? I can order Two OEM footprints for $45.90 delivered.

It doesn't seem like too popular of a tent, I don't see much about it any where, but I still figure for the price, I couldn't go wrong, besides if it does suck, I can return it.

Any one heard of it? and if it's a bad tent, let me know, I can still cancel the order

Are the three poles going to be a pain in the butt??

I found a set up review of it here.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6856784&postcount=50

http://www.kelty.com/kelty/products.php?terms=pagosa%20&id=128

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/brianm767/40754002.gif
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/brianm767/40754002_NF.gif
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/brianm767/Pagosa2FP3.jpg

[Kevin_56]

Good luck on your new tents. I was going to put in a good word on the Eureka Apex 2xt. I bought one this spring and find it easy to set up and it will fit in my saddle bag when it is packed. It is a combination sleeve and clip tent. The sleeves are only about 2' long and do not have that PIA of putting the pole in or taking it out. With that said, any one wanting a nice tent that packs small and light the Apex or Pinnacle should fill your bill.

Kevin

[G-MAN]

I think the next one I buy will be one that has no poles. Uses air pockets instead of poles and supposed to set up in about 5 minutes. Also packs smaller since there are no poles.
This web site gives you a demo of the nemos-poleless-tent.

http://trailgear.blogspot.com/2007/06/nemos-poleless-tent-first-demo.html

Here is one that has no poles but i can't see how it sets up.

http://www.outdoormegastore.co.uk

[KillSwitch]

A word on footprints....

With tents that have the pin grommet setup at the corners,
the foot print also has webbed and grommeted corners.
What does this mean?

1) If you get the foot print for that model, it's designed for
that model. It's sized for that model. Not under, or oversized.
It's also designed to attach to the whole freestanding tent setup
and goes along with it if you adjust, or move your location.

2) If you want to use the fly without the body, you can.
Using the foot print, you can pitch just the rainfly, allowing you
to sleep outside, with overhead protection from rain.

3) In some cases.... mostly that of a 2-man sleeveless tent,
when it's raining, you can, layout the foot print,
pitch the rainfly first, and then get under it to pitch the
tent, keeping the inside of the tent drier. Tricky? Sure.

There's the pros. It opens up a few options.
The con's..... it's more costly that a blue tarp cut to size.

[BlkMax]

For what it is worth, this is the one I bought at REI on sale this spring: http://marmot.com/spring_2008/equipment/tents/ultralight/aeros_3p/overview

I purchased this one because the bag with the poles will fit in the Hondaline topbox or in one of the side boxes. I wanted to be able to pack the tent in any of the hard boxes. Most of the other pole kits were too long. The guy at REI looked at me a little funny when I said I was buying a tent based on collapsed pole length.

I also purchased the footprint. This was a good tent that met all of my criteria: 3 season, big enough for 2 guys, would pack small, short collapsed pole length, I could sit up in it.

[brianm767]

Good luck on your new tents. I was going to put in a good word on the Eureka Apex 2xt. I bought one this spring and find it easy to set up and it will fit in my saddle bag when it is packed. It is a combination sleeve and clip tent. The sleeves are only about 2' long and do not have that PIA of putting the pole in or taking it out. With that said, any one wanting a nice tent that packs small and light the Apex or Pinnacle should fill your bill.

Kevin

Got them even cheaper, see below!

Yah I really like the Apex and Pinnacle Pass, I'll check these out and if I don't like the way they set up, I'll send them back and just get the Pinnacle pass 2XTA,

I wanted to stay at or under $100 bucks, I looked at a few Kelty tents in the stores and I liked them, seemed to be as on par with the REI or Eurekas, so for $96 bucks with Aluminum poles I thought it was worth taking at look at them, , but this morning, I saw they were even cheaper on their sight, so I called them and got a price adjustment, so now they are $88.71 each instead of $96.42 that they were last night, so after the $30 discount by using their Visa, (will be canceled upon delivery), it now makes each tent $73.71, The Pinnacle Pass 2XTA will be around $120 after rebates, and with the nearly $100 I saved by going with these over the Pinnacle's, that will buy me a nice thermarest pad.

As for their Footprint for this tent, I don't really like the desighn, it looks like it doesn't have clips or straps to attach it too the fly or tent, in the pics it's just a rectangle, I thought they pretty much all attached in some way?

Well for $73.71, even if I don't love it, I would probably end up keeping them for spares even if I did end up with a different one.

[Tourin']

Wow, some neat choices we have. I was going to check REI anyway as a member, but now I'll be expanding my tent searches.:)

[brianm767]

Wow, some neat choices we have. I was going to check REI anyway as a member, but now I'll be expanding my tent searches.:)

I never knew we had a REI store till the other day, I went in there and their very knowledgeable and help full, I asked when the half Dome would be on sale again? he wasn't sure and did say it had just went off sale, so it might be awhile.

But for the price of this Pagosa, it should fit our needs just fine, I was even thinking of ordering another one for my daughter, who knows, it dropped $10 bucks since last night, maybe tomorrow it will be another $10 bucks off?