Creepy public defenders

[Computer Nerd]

Hi guys,

*** is up with public defenders (especially in Los Angeles) who embark on smear campaigns against arresting officers in cases?

I hear they network with other lawyers to get "information" on an officers history, usually from very unreliable sources.

These people, completely unrelated to the case at hand, pop up and testify that an arresting officer had once mistreated them, in order to try and cast doubt on an officer's credibility.

I do not see how this should be allowed at all.

I just wanted to post this, because I hear this is happening a lot. It really steams me, and I'm not even a Cop.

[Coop]

Hi guys,

*** is up with public defenders (especially in Los Angeles) who embark on smear campaigns against arresting officers in cases?

I hear they network with other lawyers to get "information" on an officers history, usually from very unreliable sources.

These people, completely unrelated to the case at hand, pop up and testify that an arresting officer had once mistreated them, in order to try and cast doubt on an officer's credibility.

I do not see how this should be allowed at all.

I just wanted to post this, because I hear this is happening a lot. It really steams me, and I'm not even a Cop.


I'm not sure, but I've heard that super secret negotiations are going on right now between the US and Mexico. The subject is selling California back to Mexico!! Unfortunately, during these sad economic times there isn't enough money in the treasury to pay the price that Mexico wants to take it back. LOL!!

[Blue STreak]

I don't live in LA, or even in California, but is there any reliable confirmation to back up this "I hear...." story?

Far too many of these kinds of stories seem to grow without any basis in fact, but are impossible to put back in the bottle once they circulate on the internet.

[nm6r]

IMO, if this is true, it's not necessarily a bad thing. Unfortunately, our society is plagued with too many bad cops. It's a darn shame too. It not only sheds a bad light on cops in general, it puts the good cops under a microscope which just wastes time & money.

Ray

[Computer Nerd]

I don't live in LA, or even in California, but is there any reliable confirmation to back up this "I hear...." story?

Far too many of these kinds of stories seem to grow without any basis in fact, but are impossible to put back in the bottle once they circulate on the internet.


Uh, I read it on an LAPD database I was werking on. I'll get you the name of the officer who wrote the report. It was nothing confidential, it was something that was going to be printed in a police newsletter.

Sort of like Navy times, but for cops.

[Blue STreak]

Hmm, OK. One story by one cop. Not exactly exhaustive evidence of a broad conspiracy by public defenders.

[Computer Nerd]

Hmm, OK. One story by one cop. Not exactly exhaustive evidence of a broad conspiracy by public defenders.

But that's what it was saying.

Cops are increasingly getting ambushed when they show up to testify, and end up being the ones being on trial.

I'll try and post some kind of link to this story.

[Blrfl]

Cops are increasingly getting ambushed when they show up to testify, and end up being the ones being on trial.

Comes with the job.

--Mark

[skidlid1300]

Comes with the job.

--Mark

+1 on that! :yes:

[Bones]

When I recently served on a jury, the cops who were called to testify were unprepared, inarticulate, and offered conflicting testimonies. I was amazed. All they could prove was that they arrested the defendant in the vicinity of an address where an alleged drug deal had taken place. Wasted lots of taxpayer dollars and many people's day. The public defender probably sent them a thank you note!

[Blue STreak]

I still feel that one report by one cop is a long way from proving any sort of organized plan by public defenders to do what you say they're doing. Could just as easily be one disgruntled cop who got ambushed and is now trying to fight back. One man's opinion, even if that man is a cop, is not evidence nor proof.

A lawyers job is to call into question the credibility of witnesses against his client. If the DA and police department aren't prepared for that, they should find another line of work.

[JZH]

Uh, I read it on an LAPD database I was werking on.Sounds like the public defenders also have a guy working on a database... :o:

Ciao,

[BendBill]

When I recently served on a jury, the cops who were called to testify were unprepared, inarticulate, and offered conflicting testimonies. I was amazed. All they could prove was that they arrested the defendant in the vicinity of an address where an alleged drug deal had taken place. Wasted lots of taxpayer dollars and many people's day. The public defender probably sent them a thank you note!

My 20 years police experience, FWIW:

If the officers made a single arrest for a felony and there had not been undue delays in proceeding to trial, your cops sound unprofessional as well as unprepared. I wonder why the Deputy DA did not meet with them for even a few minutes to confirm/review particulars before testifying.

If, however, the arrest was part of a sweep with multiple arrestees, a common practice for certain types of so-called "frequenting" offenses, then very few people would remember any particulars the next week, much less the several months later it often takes to get to trial.

[Blrfl]

If, however, the arrest was part of a sweep with multiple arrestees, a common practice for certain types of so-called "frequenting" offenses, then very few people would remember any particulars the next week, much less the several months later it often takes to get to trial.

Those are the guys who deserve every bit of the working over they get from the defense. "I arrested a lot of people that day and can't remember the details, but I can assure you he's guilty" doesn't cut it.

--Mark

[ASDstar]

Wow..so much to comment on
20yrs LA LEO experience....
Reports of public defenders conspiring and bringing in wits to discredit police testimony; havent heard of that, seem like just a rumor.
Too many bad cops out there? Yes, but for two reason, cops come from society, and the degredation of out society had been well commented on. Also, the media focuses on the bad ones, not the vast majority that do their jobs well every day and are unsung heroes.
Cops being unprepared and unarticulate...that could be true. Any sharp public defender can make an unexperienced cop look like like a dope on the stand. Particularly when you put a microcscope on the case. Give a cop a hand, they got a tough job. Mostly they just want to put bad guys in jail...ane we all have seen someone who just didnt fit right, or who made us feel uncomfortable. Where is the LEO then? Why cant a cop just show up and take this guy away? They just want to do the right thing....it too bad that bureacracy and politics sometimes get in the way.

[BendBill]

Those are the guys who deserve every bit of the working over they get from the defense. "I arrested a lot of people that day and can't remember the details, but I can assure you he's guilty" doesn't cut it.

--Mark

Well, Mark, we're afield of the OP, but I was positing one possible reason the cops may have been so unprepared in one case. Of course, I would not go so far as to say they "deserve every bit of the working over" because that statement itself strays over into judgment. Well over.

And I can tell by your fictional quote I may not have been as clear as I should have been. So here goes another try: When I was on LAPD, we would often have teams arrest 20-30 different people in one area over several hours for selected misdemeanor offenses after citizen complaints: drag racing, prostitution on folks' side yards, lewd conduct in park restrooms, and other pesky offenses and illegal activities that most people don't like happening in their neighborhoods. Night after night each officer might arrest 3-4 people. Some operations might last weeks. Some never end, and we returned periodically, say 1-2 times a week all year long.

I gotta tell you, after a few score of such arrests each month, I'm not going to remember all the minutiae months later. To be really honest, in such a factory system and over stretches of time, it becomes difficult to tell one alleged pervert from another :) If some defense lawyer harumphs because I cannot remember how many yards from which corner Dexter the Drooler was on that night 4 months and 112 arrests ago, so be it. Fortunately, most of the City Attorneys and Dep DAs I worked with stopped many defense lawyers' strutting histrionics in short order.

I'm not excusing officers from preparation--or even more importantly, from detailing all specifics in the arrest report. They must write detailed observations because they will be expected to testify as if they made only a few arrests a month. Just trying to show how in some cases--and given enough lapsed time--memory cannot be relied upon after numerous arrests for the same offenses.

[agia]

BendBill -- Well put. I have similar stories and experiences here in San Diego... I can't think of any other profession that is so critiqued in the court of public opinion.

[Bbob]

We had a theft (nearly $2000 worth of equipment) in Van Nuys. The LAPD was unwilling to generate a police report for our insurance company. They said it was too small for them to be bothered with!

Not surprised that there are a few critics.

[TPadden]

I....A lawyers job is to call into question the credibility of witnesses against his client. If the DA and police department aren't prepared for that, they should find another line of work.

It's the police department's job to catch them; the DA has to clean and cook them.

Catch and keep; catch and release - it's up to the lawyers and juries. ;)

[agia]

We had a theft (nearly $2000 worth of equipment) in Van Nuys. The LAPD was unwilling to generate a police report for our insurance company. They said it was too small for them to be bothered with!

Not surprised that there are a few critics.

That doesn't right... The case might not be workable but if you need a theft report for the insurance company, you should be able to get one. Be insistent. That's absolutely unacceptable with my agency to be turned down for that reason.

[ASDstar]

We had a theft (nearly $2000 worth of equipment) in Van Nuys. The LAPD was unwilling to generate a police report for our insurance company. They said it was too small for them to be bothered with!

Not surprised that there are a few critics.

I dont want to diminish your experience w/LAPD, but there has to be more to the story. Todays LAPD mentality is so CYA, that I sincerely doubt any officer would refuse to take a report. Two-thousand dollars is not chicken feed. That being said, if you had a problem w/ an officer, there is always another level to step too, ie a supervisor. IMHO

[TPadden]

Those are the guys who deserve every bit of the working over they get from the defense. "I arrested a lot of people that day and can't remember the details, but I can assure you he's guilty" doesn't cut it.

--Mark

Mark,

......... but an honest Cop does have to occasionally answer in court - "I don't remember the details" - I usually added - "may I read my notes to refresh my memory".

I still would rather testify to not remembering the details and let the judge or jury decide the guilt than testify to details I wasn't sure of.

....... but you are correct - if I arrested them; they must be guilty;) ............;)