Locking up the rear break

[hload]

I tried locking up the rear brake just for the heck of it to see how it reacts and it wouldn't. Varied speeds from 20 - 40 mph on dry pavement. Does the linked braking system have anything to do with this?

04 non-abs


Scott

[Daryl]

Have to ask - ABS?:03biker:

[04ST1300a]

Do you have abs? oops too late...

[hload]

sorry - non-abs model.

[rosast1300]

I don't have abs and I like to do some smooth practice stops when the opportunity arrises and I 've yet to lock up the back. I always attempt smooth stops, yet hard on the brakes. I locked up what felt like the back brake once on a smalll bike(125 cc), of course without linked brakes, during an MSF course on emergency braking and the back wants to fishtail.
I must admit to not wanting to lock up the back, thus attempting smoother braking, but I always thought if you just stomped on it it would lock up. I'm taking the experienced MSF course next week, I'll let you know if I lock it up then.

[alan]

I have tried to lock up the back brake on my 2003 ST and never have been able to. My old bike with a drum brake was easy to lock up. The ST1300 is my first bike with a rear disk brake and I have wondered if the problem is because of the disk. I call it a problem because if I can't lock the rear brake then the brake cannot operate at maximun efficiency.

Unless this is a tricky way for Mother Honda to force us to always use our front brake, make sure the rear brake can't stop the bike very well. :rolleyes:

[EdsST]

THe linked braking system will make it harder to lock up the rear wheel - not impossible, but a lot harder. When I taught the MSF course if the rider had linked brakes we didn't even get them to try to lock it up

[ilvtoride]

The new ERC from MSF does not concentrate on locking the rear tire. The old curriculum used to. Notwithstanding, you will enjoy the confidence you develop after taking the ERC.

[GearedUp]

The rear brake applies one of the 3 pistons in each of the front calipers, making it harder to lock the rear. When applying the front brake the rotational movement of the front wheel activates a piston that applies rear brake. This is basicly how the Linked brakes work.

[Don-STOC237]

I didn't know the non-abs ST1300 had linked brakes.

Hey, you learn something new every day around here!

:D

[NormanPCN]

That is true and they are all supposedly tuned differently. The sportier bikes like the VFR are less linked if you get my drift. Whereas the GL probably applies more rear brake whatever brake you apply since it does and is intended to carry a lot more weight on the rear tire.

[Actionfigurejoe]

As I understand, the ST also has a valve which delays the front brakes from energizing. This delay minimizes dive during hard stops which gives the rider greater control. Pretty kewl.

[Mark]

[QUOTE=alan]
snip
I call it a problem because if I can't lock the rear brake then the brake cannot operate at maximun efficiency.
snip
QUOTE]

The way I understand traction is if you lock up your brake you have gone past max efficiency, by definition a skid is a loss of traction and control.

ABS stops skids preventing the loss of traction and the 1300's linked system applies some of your rear brake effort to the front brake.
You might need to apply both front and rear brakes to attain your skid.

Please attempt to avoid a high side when you do! :eek:

Mark

[NormanPCN]

The way I understand traction is if you lock up your brake you have gone past max efficiency, by definition a skid is a loss of traction and control.


True. Static friction is greater than dynamic/sliding friction. The classic example is the dish/pot filled with water on the kitchen counter and you push it and when it moves it lurches forward. You have to apply enough force to break the static friction and once moving the friction is lower and the pot therefore accelerates giving the lurch.

[Actionfigurejoe]

[QUOTE=alan]
snip
I call it a problem because if I can't lock the rear brake then the brake cannot operate at maximun efficiency.
snip
QUOTE]

The way I understand traction is if you lock up your brake you have gone past max efficiency, by definition a skid is a loss of traction and control.

ABS stops skids preventing the loss of traction and the 1300's linked system applies some of your rear brake effort to the front brake.
You might need to apply both front and rear brakes to attain your skid.

Please attempt to avoid a high side when you do! :eek:

Mark

That's true. With the exception of an automobile on gravel. In that situation ABS causes longer stopping distances than non-ABS. The ABS tends to unload the brakes prematurely on gravel. A well experianced driver can stop significantly quicker by pumping the the brakes.

[Mark]

[QUOTE=Mark]

That's true. With the exception of an automobile on gravel. In that situation ABS causes longer stopping distances than non-ABS. The ABS tends to unload the brakes prematurely on gravel. A well experianced driver can stop significantly quicker by pumping the the brakes.

What I read said that "in multiple attempts" the experienced rider can duplicate the 1st ABS attempt.

The reason Chris has an ABS is that little caveat... On a 1st attempt the ABS rider gets excellent stopping...

Mark

[CrashTestDanny]

I have tried to lock up the back brake on my 2003 ST and never have been able to. My old bike with a drum brake was easy to lock up. The ST1300 is my first bike with a rear disk brake and I have wondered if the problem is because of the disk. I call it a problem because if I can't lock the rear brake then the brake cannot operate at maximun efficiency.

Unless this is a tricky way for Mother Honda to force us to always use our front brake, make sure the rear brake can't stop the bike very well. :rolleyes:

I took my Missouri riding skills test (for my MC license) on the ST1300 (not ABS) after owning it a week. Prior to this week, I had not ridden in 17 years and then the biggest bike I owned was a 650. On the sudden stop, the examiner said I stopped shorter than most of the people she sees on much smaller bikes and we went into a long conversation about the LBS - which rocks IMO. On the test, I stopped from 15mph in one front wheel length.

Since then I have had many opportunities to stop quickly on my ST (one reason for my new horns) and have not locked the brakes once. Nor have I once felt that the braking was anything less than maximum efficiency. It's simply that the LBS is working to prevent you from locking the brakes because locking the brakes is synonymous with losing control and crashing.

I suspect that if you really want to lock the rear brake, the best way would be to throw the bike over to one side or the other as you slam the rear brake. Maybe riding the front hard and releasing it as you slam the rear would help as it would unload the rear a little.

However, if you really want max braking power, keep it straight if possible and apply both hard. If one wheel begins to slip, lighten up on that brake. My SO and I weigh in at 490 and with her on back I have managed to stop this bike from 60 in under 3 lengths - I credit this as much to LBS as to my rusty driving. No problems with it that I can see.

[Mellow]

... $4.00 ... !

[Mellow]

I'll trade ya a Mix-It Amp

[hload]

because locking the brakes is synonymous with losing control and crashing.

No it's not

I suspect that if you really want to lock the rear brake, the best way would be to throw the bike over to one side or the other as you slam the rear brake.

Are you flipping crazy?


Thanks for all the responses - I was going to show my harley neighbors that locking the rear brake is not a big deal, so much for that idea.

Scott
former MSF instructor

[CrashTestDanny]

because locking the brakes is synonymous with losing control and crashing.

No it's not

It is a frequent contributing factor to a motorcyclist losing control, and contrary to your prior assertions, it simply does not get you better braking

I suspect that if you really want to lock the rear brake, the best way would be to throw the bike over to one side or the other as you slam the rear brake.

Are you flipping crazy?

No, I'm not the one trying to lock the rear brake on an ST1300. I did, however figure out an easier way to lock the rear brake today - just go try it on a gravel road. :)

[hload]

It is a frequent contributing factor to a motorcyclist losing control, and contrary to your prior assertions, it simply does not get you better braking

I never said locking the rear brake gave better braking. I was going to demo it to my harley neighbors that it isn't something that is all that bad to do. Knowing the bikes limits and capabilities is a good thing.

Now I know it won't on dry pavement and so do a few others

[CruisingDog]

The new ERC from MSF does not concentrate on locking the rear tire. The old curriculum used to. Notwithstanding, you will enjoy the confidence you develop after taking the ERC.


Interesting. Why have they taken this approach ? I found it quite useful [MSF that is] as it gave me an understanding of high-siding and what happens when you're not braking in a straight line.

[gotaride]

I locked my rear brake on a wet road... the back end came around to almost 8:00.

A quick twist of the throttle brought it back but... if it were a real life situation I'd have been in big trouble.

early 2003 ST 1300

[motomonkey]

Locked up my rear slowing for a switchback a while back, was heading downhill on about a 30% grade, just using the back brake to slow down a bit, didn't apply that much brake, but the steep slope loaded my front tire more than I anticipated, quickly eased off the back, and added some front brake, no problem...