Temporary alternative location for topbox?

[John-DownUnder]

I was thinking about our 3,500 mile trip from Brisbane to the MotoGP at Phillip Island in October, and considering the high speed handling of the ST with the topbox fitted (but without my S.O. sitting between me and the topbox). With side winds and behind trucks at highway+ speeds, I have experienced (like many) a little sway.

As I wish to load the bike appropriately and avoid handling issues at speed, 2 solution options have come to mind:
1. Set the topbox forward to the pillion seat area
2. Load something on the pillion seat, e.g. some of the gear (it is not a camping trip), or maybe just a carved piece of heavy foam to fill in the gap.

The issue with the first point is the cost of setting up a mount. Maybe the Iron Butt people have done some similar mods? I was thinking topbox mounting plate fixed to an OEM seat base, providing lock down capability. The benefit is improved weight distribution. It also means possibly utilising the great backrest on the topbox.

The issue with the second option is the gear can't be locked up and kept out of the elements. There's also a possible "dork factor" with the foam idea. This option also means weight is still out over the back of the rear wheel, and not making use of the vacant seat area.

I guess this is where I was thinking...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/John_Meara/ST1300/Topboxsetforward-side.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/John_Meara/ST1300/Topboxsetforward-rear.jpg
Ignore the bike cover and wet weather gear bags propping it up at a less than ideal angle ;-)

Thoughts and comments?

[kingprawnokay]

Why do you need the top box at all if there is no pillion? You can buy a backrest for your seat without involving the passenger seat. Jury-rigging stuff like this makes me nervous. Moving the top box forward may actually make things worse. Aussie ingenuity aside, I say leave the top box at home.

[IntruderCruiser]

The more I read, the more I learn -- I did not know that the ST had a problem with sway from wind at high speed --

now the question is -- what is considered high speed?

when I went on trips with my other bikes, I never had that problem -- riding single and having camping gear stacked on the rack -- and the bikes were a 150 pds less than the ST

[John-DownUnder]

Brilliant Paul. I will make inquiries. Are you aware if anyone else has purchased one of these racks or reviewed it?

IntruderCruiser, when I say, "I have experienced a little sway", its just that - a minor bit of turbulence at over 80+ mph (not a speed I travel at usually, but on out outback open highways, this is easy to do); and the little sway only seems to occur when one-up and with the topbox fitted, and the added factor of cross winds. Let's face it, high speed airflow around the back of a rider then around a topbox can't be expected to be clean and slippery.

The other time I get a "little" is behind larger vehicles, mainly when I have the electric screen up at it's higher levels. If I lower the screen, the turbulence is less of an issue.

I wouldn't be too concerned... Imagine putting an ST topbox up on the back of a Hayabusa (behind the rear wheel) and see what happens at higher speeds! My reason for the post is two-fold, the other being weight distribution. I could leave the topbox at home, but it's worth exploring; and I am obviously not the first :-)

[basco]

John, what speed are you thinking about traveling at? I go 100-110 easy with no wind effects. 80 in the manual has a huge safety factor built in. I would rather mount is the correct way then do a temporary fix.

[kingprawnokay]

Although it may have seemed a little curt, but I assure you that your safety was the motivation behind my reply. The photos in the reply above depicting the construction of another rack are spectacular. However, I worry that you may actually experience more adverse wind effects by moving the box forward. I wish you luck and hope that you find a solution.

[HRCRob]

Brilliant Paul. I will make inquiries. Are you aware if anyone else has purchased one of these racks or reviewed it?
I just installed the Ron/Roy Rack today.
http://koczarski.com/ST1300/BoxRack/Rack.htm
I have only had time to take it out on a short little shake-down cruise so far. I will give it a thorough test ride tomorrow and will report back in here with my review. It is a very tidy set-up and was relatively easy to install with the understanding that no after-market product will pop right in without some (minor) adjustments. Took me about 2.5 hrs in my 100 deg. garage. I am very curious to see if “the swerve” is cured.
I have further plans for the rear deck.
See: http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5191
Now I can go to work on the bike rack.

[John-DownUnder]

Hi Basco ands Kevin,
I am not a speed freak, however on our country roads, it's easy to do 100 mph from time to time (our speed limits in Australia are generall 100 kilometres per hour = 62.1 mph; and on some freeways 110 kph = 68.4 mph).

Generally a significant number of riders here travel illegally at about 110 kph (and up to say 125 kph / up to 75 mph) on the clear less travelled highways, dropping to legal or below legal limits through settlements or when there's any chance of police radars.

I am just doing my homework at the moment as I appreciate the ST's aerodynamics are much, much better without the topbox when 1-up, and believe they would be greatly improved by the topbox being behind the rider (rather than out the back when no pillion). I am also certain the weight distribution is much better in the forward position. I have no doubt on these things and that handling must therefore be improved (when loaded).
Cheers

[crazykz]

I just installed the Ron/Roy Rack today.
http://koczarski.com/ST1300/BoxRack/Rack.htm
I have only had time to take it out on a short little shake-down cruise so far. I will give it a thorough test ride tomorrow and will report back in here with my review. It is a very tidy set-up and was relatively easy to install with the understanding that no after-market product will pop right in without some (minor) adjustments. Took me about 2.5 hrs in my 100 deg. garage. I am very curious to see if “the swerve” is cured.
I have further plans for the rear deck.
See: http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5191
Now I can go to work on the bike rack.

How do the front tabs mount? I can't make it out from the pictures.

Curt

[HRCRob]

How do the front tabs mount? I can't make it out from the pictures. The two tabs bolt directly to the frame. They were the most time consuming of the install. At least the left side was anyway. The right side popped right in without drama. There's not a lot of room in there for your fingers and wrench. You have to notch the bodywork as well but none of that is exposed with the seat attached.

I took her out on the freeway today and chased after some big rigs to see how she felt in dirty air. With the shield fully down the stability is much improved. I can still induce the wobble/swerve in very bad air behind a semi but it is much more subtle. I think that in order to tune this phenomena out of the bike completely would take a major suspension overhaul. Short of that this is a big improvement. It feels much more confidant in this configuration. I also use a fork brace and crank my suspension settings down all the way. 100mph riding will be far more enjoyable now when I'm fully loaded.

Now I'm on to my next project which is building a bicycle rack off the rear deck.
I'm sure that all the gains in stability I have just achieved are going to fly right out the window when I'm dragging my bicycle behind me. :rolleyes: In this case though, 4wheels are better than 2.

[crazykz]

The two tabs bolt directly to the frame.

Do you have to drill the frame to put them in or is there a clamp that goes around the frame?

I'm looking for this about the same thing accept that I want a level shelf over the pillion for mounting a bag/cooler/waterbottle etc.

Seems like the one for the top box slants down slighty. I'm thinking I could bolt a plate to the bolts under the mount for the Givi but getting a support for the front is the issue.

Curt

[HRCRob]

Do you have to drill the frame to put them in or is there a clamp that goes around the frame?

I'm looking for this about the same thing accept that I want a level shelf over the pillion for mounting a bag/cooler/waterbottle etc.

Seems like the one for the top box slants down slighty. I'm thinking I could bolt a plate to the bolts under the mount for the Givi but getting a support for the front is the issue.
No drilling required Kurt. The holes are already in the frame and a long bolt/nut is supplied that passes through the frame. All metric fasteners were supplied with the rack. The installation is very straight foreward. The only mods nessessary are the two notches in the plastic bodywork. I didn't put a level on it but it appears to be more even than the rear deck position.

Installed it is not quite close enough for the standard backrest to be functional. A 3" pad solves the problem and bridges the gap. My soft padded laptop case fits the bill perfectly for me as a padded backrest. Got to store the laptop somewhere anyway.

[crazykz]

Hi Rob,

Do you have any pictures of your install? You're saying that the shelf is level? It seems that is slants forward a little. Not trying to be billigerant just trying to make sure. The other thing is that I'm not sure if the tabs on the rear will clear the Givi trunk plate. It looks like they might but I'm not sure. If you have any pictures to share please do.

Did yours come powder coated?

I'm hoping this can double as a fuel cell mount in the future.

Curt

[HRCRob]

Do you have any pictures of your install? You're saying that the shelf is level? It seems that is slants forward a little. Not trying to be billigerant just trying to make sure. The other thing is that I'm not sure if the tabs on the rear will clear the Givi trunk plate. It looks like they might but I'm not sure. If you have any pictures to share please do.

Did yours come powder coated?
Curt

Not sure if its powder coated or painted but it is semi-gloss BLACK.
It does slant forward but I did not put a level on it. I will check for you.
If you reference the pix on Roys site you'll note they had to make some minor mods to the bottem of the Hondaline box to clear the rear tabs when the box is in the normal/rear position.

I did not take any pix while installing but I'll work on some for you today.

[Kempo-STer]

The more I read, the more I learn -- I did not know that the ST had a problem with sway from wind at high speed --

now the question is -- what is considered high speed?

when I went on trips with my other bikes, I never had that problem -- riding single and having camping gear stacked on the rack -- and the bikes were a 150 pds less than the ST

I orginally had the 'sway problem' that begain to show itself at over 80mph with the top box and the windscreen in the highest position..
However after playing with the suspension setting and cranking it all the way up, problem went away..up to 110 without any issue..

Only time I have felt any sway from that point on is from the actualu wind when its very windy..Normal expected stuff..

[basco]

I orginally had the 'sway problem' that begain to show itself at over 80mph with the top box and the windscreen in the highest position..
However after playing with the suspension setting and cranking it all the way up, problem went away..up to 110 without any issue..

Only time I have felt any sway from that point on is from the actualu wind when its very windy..Normal expected stuff..

Thats probably true. I ride with the suspension most of the way up most of the time and the sheild down and never experianced sway. I been up there many times and not an issue.

[crazykz]

Good suggestion on eliminating sway. I'll have to try it. I'm not looking for this to solve the sway issue I just need a flat spot to mount stuff.

Thanks Rob for helping out. Is the fabricator still making/selling these things?

If it does slant maybe I can convince the fabricator to consider extending the rod so that it does sit level on the bike. Appreciate the help. I'm still trying to fashion something myself but I don't have metal working tools.

Actually if I had the tabs for the front and the rear I might actaully be able to work something from there with some metal rod and a solid aluminum plate. I would rather just have this shelf though and instead of mounting the top box to the bottom plate I would fasten a flat 1/4" aluminum plate to it.

Thanks again,
Curt

[crazykz]

I took a few pictures to show a possible idea I had but the issue is that the seat is too close to the saddlebag release latches. There is some clearance to be able to attach a flat piece of metal to the bolts that hold the grab rail on and then bring it out from under the seat and up between the release handle and the seat. That way no one has to cut the plastic for a shelf. Of course this spot is pretty far back so it's not optimal in that case.

So long as I can get a shelf that passes the IBA's mounting restrictions for a fuel cell I'm ok with it I guess.

I also took a picture of where the Givi mounts to the back of the bike. Looks they are pretty clear and the trunk is up on top of the plate so I don't think any modification is necessary there.

Can I ask why the shelf wasn't mounted level? Was it so that there's a chance of using the backrest on the trunk?

Curt

[crazykz]

Here's some pictures from HRCrob.

Wonder if there would be any way to make the tab come up and over the plastic so that you wouldn't have to cut it. I know I want too much. :rolleyes:

Curt

[HRCRob]

Here's some pictures from HRCrob.

Wonder if there would be any way to make the tab come up and over the plastic so that you wouldn't have to cut it. I know I want too much. :rolleyes: It would then interfere with the seat placement. Seems like they chose the simplist and cleanest aproach. No mods show when the rack is off except the two small black tabs.

Thanks again for posting the pix of my pile.

[Blackdog]

That installation looks awfully strange to me. Wouldn't an inflateable woman be better?

[crazykz]

Different rack all together. Maybe good for a cup holder but I need a flat spot for gear. ;)

Curt

[HRCRob]

That installation looks awfully strange to me. Wouldn't an inflateable woman be better?
Form follows function. Having that big brick of a box hanging way off the rear end way up high in the wind seems to me to be the more strange position. This way I have the option of mounting it in either location depending on wheather I have a passenger (or inflateable) ;)

[Jeff]

I say scrap the top box John,......this might be just what you need.
http://www.corbin.com/honda/st13smug.shtml (http://)

Jeff

[MAC_JD]

I just installed the Ron/Roy Rack today.
http://koczarski.com/ST1300/BoxRack/Rack.htm
I have only had time to take it out on a short little shake-down cruise so far. I will give it a thorough test ride tomorrow and will report back in here with my review. It is a very tidy set-up and was relatively easy to install with the understanding that no after-market product will pop right in without some (minor) adjustments. Took me about 2.5 hrs in my 100 deg. garage. I am very curious to see if “the swerve” is cured.
I have further plans for the rear deck.
See: http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5191
Now I can go to work on the bike rack.

Rob,

Is this rack still made? If so, where?

Thanks,

JD