Is Harley Davidson Riding Off Into the Sunset?

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yeah, not good at all for them. But people DO still need other things that are Harley branded....so, at least they will have that coming in. thats the fundamental difference between Honda and Harley. I read on another post Honda is an engine manufacturer first, and all the cars, boats, motorcycles, lawnmowers, etc are all just platforms for their engines.
Worst case scenario, I doubt Harley will close up completely. They'll just keep scaling back, and ride it out.
I bet if they survive, they will learn from this. Harley is a huge brand, they could put their name on anything, from baked beans to cordless drills, and it would sell.
 

ocho nueve

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I can relate to that article. My brother is a GM for a major RV chain here in the NW region, and they, like motorcycle dealerships are hurting bad . Much like motorcycles, no one can justify buying an RV right now, and even those who want to, can't get financed.

This time last year, his dealership had contracts with six banks and had another 4 on their list for customers with special financing needs.

Today, they have two banks available for borrowing, neither are under contract, and the dealership cannot provide anyone with instant financing anymore.

My brother told me they had a gentleman come into their store a few months ago with $20,000 in cash, a 715 credit score and a decent debt to income ratio. He was trying to buy a $120,000 motorhome, so he had about 18% to put down. Typically a good number. Not a single bank would finance him.

I assume the same is ringing true for the middle income worker with little to put down on a $23,000 motorcycle. So not only is it hard for these dealerships to get customers in the store, it's hard to get them out the door with a new toy.

I don't think Harley will dissapear. They have become a mainstay and an American icon in the last 15 years. It would be horrible to see them go.
 
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I went to one of the big HD dealers in the area last Sunday. Not only was my bike the only one in the parking lot, I was the only non-worker bee in the store. It is the dealer I traded my ST in on the Wing at this time last year. The place was packed that day and they sold three bikes during the time I was getting the Wing papers in order.
 

sherob

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The HD dealer in Loveland is having a Repo Sale next month... I've never seen a repo sale at a MC dealer before :cool:
 
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Gator harley had a big shindig last Sat. in Leesburg and they were packed. I do see less and less foot traffic there during the week. They will weather the storm and now you actually see some discount prices on some models. :biker:
 
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yeah, not good at all for them. But people DO still need other things that are Harley branded....so, at least they will have that coming in. thats the fundamental difference between Honda and Harley. I read on another post Honda is an engine manufacturer first, and all the cars, boats, motorcycles, lawnmowers, etc are all just platforms for their engines.
Worst case scenario, I doubt Harley will close up completely. They'll just keep scaling back, and ride it out.
I bet if they survive, they will learn from this. Harley is a huge brand, they could put their name on anything, from baked beans to cordless drills, and it would sell.
"Where's the REAL money made?????
MERCHANDISING!!!"

Harley Davidson, the toilet paper! Harley Davidson, the deodorant! Harley Davidson, the kitty litter!!
 

Blue STreak

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The thing in Harley's favor is that once the economy starts to pick up, and banks loan money again, Harley buyers will return. The typical Harley buyer won't buy any other brand of bike. GM, Ford and Chrysler have not only the economy and bank issues to worry about, but also Honda, Toyota and Hyundai. Buyers of cars are not nearly so loyal as buyers of Harleys.
 

ThreeWheels

I'm an Engineer, not a Doctor
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All these points are very true, but in a recession ALL discretionary purchases stop. I'm sure that all the motorcycle sales are hurting, not just Harley.
Even Starbucks is laying off people. When you're out of work, you're not about to spend $4.50 on a cup of coffee.
 

ocho nueve

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Ray,

The first thing I'll say is, I entirely agree with you. I am very much in the mindset that the most responsible thing to do (and the cheapest in the long run) is to save and pay cash for consumer items, including motorcycles.

That being said, I think the people who devised all of these creative loans need to bear the brunt of the blame on this one.

Much of what bred many of us to be responsible was knowing the only way to ever get a loan for a house (or other major purchase, like property or a business loan) was to have good credit and be able to prove we're living within our means.

Up until a year ago, you could have a credit score in the 300's, have thousands in consumer debt, a divorce, child support and a bankruptcy (no offense to those who singularly fall in that catagory, just examples of things that hurt your credit and debt to income ratio) on your record is still get financed for a car or a TV.....albiet at 25% interest or greater.

When institutions start loaning money to irresponsible people, I think they have become even more irresponsible, which at the end of the day, has contributed greatly to the ecomonic recession we're in now. It is my belief that all of these fancy financing schemes (Banks preapproving for a house that is 10X someone's yearly income and then financing your with a no money down ARM and the title company is writing you a check when you sign, car loans that equal 40% or more of a persons monthly income, etc...) are criminal and now many of the banks that stood behind these schemes are standing in line for a government hand out, that at the end of the day is coming out of my pocket and eventually my children's pockets.

Again, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but when our financial institutions are not being responsible as well, it hurts those of us who are the most, and company's like Harley-Davidson.

[rant off] and I need a cup of coffee! :)
 
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I would be very sad to see Harley go under. They are an American Icon, loved internationally, and we share in the pride even if we don't ride them.
 
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Ray, I also agree with you. I don't have a problem with financing the house and family car, but toys are altogether different. Personally I haven't financed any vehicle for over 25 years. The down side of doing this is having to drive the wheels off our cars.
 

ocho nueve

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Ray, I also agree with you. I don't have a problem with financing the house and family car, but toys are altogether different. Personally I haven't financed any vehicle for over 25 years. The down side of doing this is having to drive the wheels off our cars.
So true! Last year the AC went out in my truck and now this winter, the heater core needs to be replaced!

I'm going to start storing fruits and veggies in my truck! Temperate, controlled enviorment. Not too hot, not too cold!
 

Gug

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They will survive! They have been through this many times in this country before. They also make more off merchandise than the bikes anyway. I disagree with the writer in saying that they have burdensome costs associated with labor??? I mean who threw out the rule book our parents and grandparents created?

To the contrary they are fighting to keep jobs here and paying a liveable wage to the average person same as Detroit. If that subsides then they won and we'll all be making $8 an hour working 60 hr. a week begging for OT to survive. In this economy we will not survive being service based. Someone still has to make it and buy it.
 

Gug

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Many times??? When was that? I can only count once, in 1929, but then HD was a much different company, like most others back then.




While I work in a labor union, I am not a union 'pusher'. However, that said, your/our recent historical situation (a 40 hour week, weekends, lunch breaks, etc.) are all a result of unions fighting for the rights of the working man. I totally agree that some unions are ridiculously "top heavy" and corrupt. But, no one can get out from under the benefit of labor unions' affects on all of our jobs, no matter what we do, because those conditions are written law now.

But all these (and more) are just part of THE "signs".
Just pointing out that we have had 12 recessions in this country since 1929.
 
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Just pointing out that we have had 12 recessions in this country since 1929.
Plus they were seriously close to disappearing under AMF. I don't think there were many Harleys sold in the late 70's. I believe their market was basically biker clubs back then. I know plenty of retirees who own full dresser Harleys now were on Kaw KZ's or Honda CB's back then.
 
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