Disappointed with Honda

[Mike Millsap]

First of all, the HRCA preview was seriously weak. What purported to be a preview of the 2006 Honda motorcycle line was just some fragmentary information on a few bikes and did not include the ST1300.

The ST1300 has some real flaws that could easliy be solved. The gauges could be replaced with something readable from another Honda motorcycle. The turn signal indicators on the dash could be located to be visible. And the air flow around the engine could be re-routed to someplace other than the rider's legs.

But if you think the ST1300 is disappointing, you should tune in to the Blackbird riders. There has not been a new CBR1100XX in the U.S. since 2003. Yet they continue to be sold in the U.K. and Australia along with hard cases and other accessories that are not imported into the U.S. However, the Blackbird is the same old 2002 bike in the places where it continues to be sold.

Sometime before I get too old to ride, I would like to own a Ducati, maybe the ST4S model. Until then, I will enjoy what I have and put up with the flaws. But I'm going to start watching for other new bikes.

[Carl_T]

Personally I didn't really expect any changes beyond color. Many niggles seem to be confined to some riders and not others, though there are a few items which would be nice to have addressed like the seat. Yet even the seat is OK for some as is, so why add the expense to the bikes price through a redesign?

I've turned the brightness up on my display and never have a problem reading it in the sun, maybe I have a good one. The signal light is always visible, so perhaps that is upper body height.

Now the fairing extenders turned out to reroute the slight warmth from the heads quite nicely, so I'd say they could have thrown them on and added something reasonable to the sticker price. However, people are already complaining about the price, so I'm not surprised they didn't. After all not everyone really wants to reroute that warmth a bit, so it wouldn't add enough additional customer draw to the bike to make it worthwhile.

I suppose if I had a wish that I wish they had redone, it might be the windshield shape with backpressure venting. Even that would make some mad since some want wind on their shoulders in the hot summer and others want it just on the top of their helmet, so one crowd would not like the others solution. I suppose it’s why it is electric and there are various aftermarket windshields, one size does not fit all.

[Horst]

A Blackbird with hard cases ... wow, that is a sport tourer. Didn't know they were available (somewhere) ... I was surprised the VFR bags actually materialized. Saw them last weekend and was very impressed - maybe a VFR with bags will grace my driveway next year, we'll see. :p:

[gstanfield]

I would like to see cruise control as a standard equpment, the heat issue doesn't really bother me much, it's not as bad as a lof of sportbikes I've ridden and nowhere near as bad as the FJR. It would be nie to see things such as self canceling turn signals and maybe factory adjustable vents on thew windshield to control backpressure. I don't understand why people consider the guages unreadable or the t/s indicators hard to see, but everyone is diffrent and while it would be cool if they continued to change the bikes a little every year to stay on top of things, the price would go up considerable as well to pay for all the retooling and inventory of that many more parts, so I'm contnet for now with the bike as it is. A VFR would be fun, I've always been a sucker for a single rear swingarm, looks way cool. I was going to buy a 1100XX instead of my VTX, but insurance dictated that if I did that I could not buy the ST as well, so I passed on that, still don't know why they quit selling it here, as the CBR1000 is not the bike the blackbird was/is.

George

[NCSam]

My biggest complaint is the "farce" that HRCA pullled on us! As they advertised it as a "yet another HRCA member benefit" it sounded like we would have a three-hour in depth preview of all '06 models! I actually stayed up 'till midnight thinking there would be more. Although I looked hard, I could not find a way to contact HRCA to let them know what I thought about their lame preview. Anyone know how to contact HRCA via email?

[Kempo-STer]

I would like to see cruise control as a standard equpment, the heat issue doesn't really bother me much, it's not as bad as a lof of sportbikes I've ridden and nowhere near as bad as the FJR. It would be nie to see things such as self canceling turn signals and maybe factory adjustable vents on thew windshield to control backpressure. I don't understand why people consider the guages unreadable or the t/s indicators hard to see, but everyone is diffrent and while it would be cool if they continued to change the bikes a little every year to stay on top of things, the price would go up considerable as well to pay for all the retooling and inventory of that many more parts, so I'm contnet for now with the bike as it is. A VFR would be fun, I've always been a sucker for a single rear swingarm, looks way cool. I was going to buy a 1100XX instead of my VTX, but insurance dictated that if I did that I could not buy the ST as well, so I passed on that, still don't know why they quit selling it here, as the CBR1000 is not the bike the blackbird was/is.

George


I am with you George..Cruise Control..thats it.

No heat issue..Get the fairing deflectors and be done with it..Maybe if I am reaching, you could make the deflectors easily removable.
Everything else that can be addressed is basically open to interpretation by the rider and stuff is bought to suit their own body type/style and like..

[gottaride]

I have to say that of all the big 4 Japanese Cycles, Honda's Information pipeline is the worst. If you're in the market for one of their machines, GOD forbid you should go to their official website. I've seen better personal blogs. Half the time it's down and the other half you wish it was. Want some quality pictures of the machine your considering? Well the 2 dimensional puny photos they supply simply put, SUCK! Want to see a 360 of the machine you're thinking about? forget it!!Waiting for anything to load is like going back in time to the dial up days. and.....blah, blah, blah. O.K. rant off :(

[crazykz]

Honestly for resale, parts, service I hope they don't change it for the duration that the ST1100 was out. Makes it easier to get the next one and set it up the same way. Yeah it could be improved but overall the more there are the easier it is to get parts and service on the things.

Curt

[stg1]

Honestly for resale, parts, service I hope they don't change it for the duration that the ST1100 was out. Makes it easier to get the next one and set it up the same way. Yeah it could be improved but overall the more there are the easier it is to get parts and service on the things.

Curt

Yea, they only changed a couple of things other than color on the 1100's from 91 to 02. I think it was the windshield (added vents) and a bigger altenator.

[g17]

The only change that I would like to see is cruise control.....make it an option in the event some don't want to pay for it.

[Kempo-STer]

I have to say that of all the big 4 Japanese Cycles, Honda's Information pipeline is the worst. If you're in the market for one of their machines, GOD forbid you should go to their official website. I've seen better personal blogs. Half the time it's down and the other half you wish it was. Want some quality pictures of the machine your considering? Well the 2 dimensional puny photos they supply simply put, SUCK! Want to see a 360 of the machine you're thinking about? forget it!!Waiting for anything to load is like going back in time to the dial up days. and.....blah, blah, blah. O.K. rant off :(


Couldn't agree more Mr Crazy Avatar...
Honda's website is absolute crap..Very disorganized..way too much useless information and the information you WANT to see is not there..And how about the St1300 picture gallery.. 1 picture!!WOW I'm impressed. :banghead:

Yamaha's website is a thing of beauty.360 view of the FJR ,15 or 20 different pics of the bike. Seems like they actually want to sell it. I could even go look up parts for my 90 Virago from it last year!!!

[gottaride]

Okay.....Kempo has commented on my fine Avatar twice now. That and scaring his kid so she couldn't sleep has prompted me to go to something a little more politically correct. Hope this helps............

[Rider]

The only change that I would like to see is cruise control.....make it an option in the event some don't want to pay for it.

Yep. Cruise as an option and some pressure vents in the windscreen.
Other than that, I'm good to go.

[Kempo-STer]

I think the ST1300 is an excellent bike. However, it is sad that they have not incorporated improvements (could be done easily as you mentioned) as they seem to always do with the GoldWing. It seems that for '06 all of their Touring R&D was directed towards the Wing.


Cost Benefit...Not enough sales to justify..

The Wing is at this point over the top rediculous..(No offense mellow)..
I mean buy a convertible for cripes sake!

[Kempo-STer]

Okay.....Kempo has commented on my fine Avatar twice now. That and scaring his kid so she couldn't sleep has prompted me to go to something a little more politically correct. Hope this helps............


New Avatar is just gross :eek: ..I love it :D
poop olympics..

[gstanfield]

Another gripe I have with Honda's website is the lack of horsepower numbers for all of their bikes on there. Go to Triumph's site and they will tell you how much power it has, and what kind of milage to expect, Honda really needs to step things up a notch or two in the website department.

George

[Kennedy]

I am with a lot of you guys. Cruise should be offered as standard equipment, may be honda should sell us the top box right from the dealer but other then that I think they have built the almost perfect motorcycle.

[MikeP1300]

If honda had to compete with the likes of another honda, things would be different. I think most here would agree that honda is pretty arrogant and treats their customers poorly sometimes. Maybe it's because honda knows their stuff is very good and can afford to thumb their nose at the competion and us. It also allows them to save a few bucks in a few places like web sites.

That said, I've checked out the competition. From here on(or 8/21/04 I should say) all bikes will be compared to the ST1300.

But, hey, I'm a little biased. What do I know.

[kingprawnokay]

Another gripe I have with Honda's website is the lack of horsepower numbers for all of their bikes on there. Go to Triumph's site and they will tell you how much power it has, and what kind of milage to expect, Honda really needs to step things up a notch or two in the website department.

George

I think Honda stayed away from advertising ponies because most of the time, companies measure horsepower at the crank. Triumph is one of those companies. The hp measurements you see are not accurate as they do not include power lost in the driveline. Also, every dyno is calibrated differently so how reliable are the results? I personally don't care how many horsies are pulling the ST, but there are lots of sources (e.g., Motorcyclist) that provide free info online regarding all motorcycles. Somewhere on the website they do say 125hp for the stock ST, which, we all know isn't true (more like 110). Who knew horsepower was subjective?

While it may not be acceptable, it says a lot about a company if they can still be the largest motorcylce/powersports company in the world and have a crappy website (way bigger than Yamahammer). Honda has always been very shy with advertising.

[gottaride]

While it may not be acceptable, it says a lot about a company if they can still be the largest motorcylce/powersports company in the world and have a crappy website (way bigger than Yamahammer). Honda has always been very shy with advertising.

Hmmmmmm.......I'm not gonna give Honda a pass on that sad excuse for a web-site. Excellence should be across the board and that includes their lame ***-Dealers and their web-presence. My Yammies fit and finish is nearly that of the Honda and their web site is 1st class. Not to mention that I was treated with deference and respect when I bought the Yammie. I was treated like they were doing ME a favor at Honda. They clearly don't care as is evidenced by their efforts. Shy with Advertising?? You've got to be kidding? The Site is an afterthought and garners a ridiculously small amount of support. Dealer network is rude and from much of the anecdotal Info that I've heard, not to mention my first hand experience, indifferent at best and incompetent at its worst. It looks like they gave the web contract to some pimple faced teenager holed up in a one room apartment in downtown Tokyo. They need to do better. Much better. A fine machine does not preclude them from follow through in other facets of their dealings with the general public. I'm not Gaijin and don't like being treated as such. Hell....witness Japans answer to Katrina. The contempt is obvious

[kingprawnokay]

Hell....witness Japans answer to Katrina. The contempt is obvious

You lost me here. Honda donated $5 million to Katrina. Disney donated something like $2.5 million.

I didn't inend to insult Yammy. I have a lot of respect for 'Hammers. Any company that can move from musical instruments to power equipment is alright with me.

[gottaride]

You lost me here. Honda donated $5 million to Katrina. Disney donated something like $2.5 million.


Wasn't a personal affront against you my man , just my opinion.

The Nation of Japan on the other hand donated the grand sum of 1 million samolians. Keep it....you obviously need it worse than we do. :mad: They damned near exist over there on monies and raw materials garnered through us. Global economy....phhtt!

[kingprawnokay]

Yeah, I used to work for Honda so I guess I might have taken it all too personally. Honda is really good to employees. There is no excuse for rude or indifferent dealers.

It's sad, but the world does seem to be slowly turning against us. Anti-Americanism has become increasingly apparent to me the last few times I've travelled abroad. To be honest, the people of the countries I have visited in the past 6 years (e.g., Austria, Hungary, Italy, New Zealand, France, Germany) don't like G.W. (or maybe his foreign policy?). This isn't a political commentary, just an observation.

These days, most travelling students from the U.S.A. will wear Canadian flags on their backpacks so they are not harassed.

I certainly don't have an answer.

[Bora20]

These days, most travelling students from the U.S.A. will wear Canadian flags on their backpacks so they are not harassed.

I certainly don't have an answer.

It is such as shame that they want to be Canadian isn't it :cool:

[curmudgeon]

The ST1300 has some real flaws that could easliy be solved. The gauges could be replaced with something readable from another Honda motorcycle. The turn signal indicators on the dash could be located to be visible. And the air flow around the engine could be re-routed to someplace other than the rider's legs.

The ST1300 is an excellent bike, but I have to agree with Mike on the flaws.

When the sun is in front of the bike I have a hard time seeing the display.

I leave the turn signals on due to hard to see and being amber. My 94 ST1100 ABS had red turn indicators and lower on the panel.

As for the fairing it should eventually be redesigned to eliminate the heat.

I would add one more thing, and that is a two stage throttle butterfly system like Susuki and Yamaha use on their sport bikes. According to the magazines it had eliminated the abrupt on off throttle situation. If Honda did that I would retrofit mine if it were at all possible.

Phil

[CrashTestDanny]

Probably gonna get myself in trouble here, but I actually like my ST AND Honda's web site. I would like to see more detail about and accessories for the ST like they have for the wing, but I find it pretty easy to navigate, especially if you're there to buy a motorcycle.

... and I probably shouldn't go messing with a black-belt in Kempo or anything else, but I was really struck by the disparate messages that were so close to each other in your post...

...Honda's website is absolute crap..Very disorganized..way too much useless information and the information you WANT to see is not there..And how about the St1300 picture gallery.. 1 picture!!WOW I'm impressed. :banghead:

Negativity is Easy.. Being a positive force and helping others takes courage and fortitude. Ride ON!

[gottaride]

I would add one more thing, and that is a two stage throttle butterfly system like Susuki and Yamaha use on their sport bikes. According to the magazines it had eliminated the abrupt on off throttle situation. If Honda did that I would retrofit mine if it were at all possible.

Absolutely.....EXUP would cure a bunch of minor niggling ills with the throttle response. I too, would do a retrofit if they came up with one.

[birdie_xx]

A Blackbird with hard cases ... wow, that is a sport tourer

Do you mean like this ? ;)

http://www.cbr1100xxforums.org/photos/albums/userpics/10085/104_0401.JPG



.......

[Fireball18]

Well, I had my ST1300 for a tad over 2 years and enjoyed it immensely, however there were specific reasons for returning to the Gold Wing, but that's another story. I do miss the ST, though, for all the obvious reasons.

I think Honda seems to pay little, if any, attention to its consumers. They seem to have decided that the ST (in this case) is just perfect, no need to change anything just because some ST owners have found some faults with it. They need to be more customer oriented. I agree, their website is sadly lacking in detail and information.

If I were to suggest any changes to the ST, it would include the mirror and fairing deflectors as standard equipment, or redesign the mirror housings and fairing edges to that configuration. I, also, would like to see windshield venting included as standard. The jury is out on cruise control, as not everyone likes that, and many prefer to merely use a throttle "lock" such as a Vista Cruise, instead.

As for the heat issue, it's really only an issue at outside air temperatures above about 85 or 90 degrees. Trust me, at 29 degrees out, heat is not an issue, but something you wish you had!!

In short, I think the ST1300 is a fine machine pretty much the way it is. Making the the dash a bit lighter would make it more easily viewed, but it's not bad as is, and I never had an issue with it, really. Little refinements sometimes are better than the big changes. If you look at Yamaha's ad for the FJR1300 on their website, you'll find that they listened to their customers' complaints about heat (and apparently it's worse than with the ST) and have redesigned the FJR to improve the airflow and heat management. At least that's what the ad says. Honda should take note here.

[tccox]

To be honest , there's a LOT of us in THIS country who do not like G.W. or his forign policy......


. To be honest, the people of the countries I have visited in the past 6 years (e.g., Austria, Hungary, Italy, New Zealand, France, Germany) don't like G.W. (or maybe his foreign policy?). This isn't a political commentary, just an observation.

[stg1]

Funny how a "Disappointed with Honda" thread gets turned into a "Bush Bashing" thread. :confused:

[tccox]

Funny how a "Disappointed with Honda" thread gets turned into a "Bush Bashing" thread. :confused:

Please explain why a simple statement of fact is considered "Bush Bashing" ??? Even the most passionate supporter of the President must agree to the statement that theres a lot of folks who do not care for the man. Thats not bashing, thats just a fact. And a simple response to the statement that a lot of folks overseas do not care for President Bush. :confused:

[jackpine savage]

Funny how a "Disappointed with Honda" thread gets turned into a "Bush Bashing" thread. :confused:

Why? It's well known that he was vacationing when he should have been leading Honda's design team. And Condoleeza Rice was buying shoes. If they had done their job I'll bet we would now have self cancelling turn signals.

[stg1]

Please explain why a simple statement of fact is considered "Bush Bashing" ??? Even the most passionate supporter of the President must agree to the statement that theres a lot of folks who do not care for the man. Thats not bashing, thats just a fact. And a simple response to the statement that a lot of folks overseas do not care for President Bush. :confused:

Then lets start a new thread about Bush and get back to talking about Honda on this thread.

[Kempo-STer]

Please explain why a simple statement of fact is considered "Bush Bashing" ??? Even the most passionate supporter of the President must agree to the statement that theres a lot of folks who do not care for the man. Thats not bashing, thats just a fact. And a simple response to the statement that a lot of folks overseas do not care for President Bush. :confused:


I would not want his job..No matter WHAT you do, decide or say...Half of the audience/country hates you and half loves you. Its a no win..

[Kempo-STer]

Probably gonna get myself in trouble here, but I actually like my ST AND Honda's web site. I would like to see more detail about and accessories for the ST like they have for the wing, but I find it pretty easy to navigate, especially if you're there to buy a motorcycle.

... and I probably shouldn't go messing with a black-belt in Kempo or anything else, but I was really struck by the disparate messages that were so close to each other in your post...

There is a difference between negativitiy and honesty. I was being honest.If me being honest results in a nagative comment so be it. It frustrates me how a company has such a great product in the ST and not flaunt it like they should.
I can help Honda if they want to hire me.

But I'll turn this into a postive by offering free advice to HONDA:

Take last week's Iron Butt..NO DNFs for the STs..None..ZIP, Zero..If that aint worth a mention by Mother Honda about the quality of their products then I don't know what is. Honda: Use your website to draw attentnion to this for prospective buyers!! For camparison, CycleWorld picked the FJR as the best sport tourer in 2004..Do you think this was put on their website where the FJR is..YOU BET THEY DID!
I love my ST as well.
The website should showcase the bikes better AKA how Yamahas website does it.

[stg1]

Honda's attitude for many years has been that we're #1 and we know it. When I sold Honda motorcycles in the past, we had Suzuki and Kawasaki also and we would get promo posters and marketing kits from them and nothing from Honda. Suzuki is really proud of their racing history (Matt Maladin and the rest of them) and Kawasaki would have posters to hang in the dealership of the new products. If Honda did anything, it was on a small scale. Even now when I walk into a multi line dealer I see more of the other guys marketing than Honda.

[stg1]

Maybe you could ask Bush to invade Honda Headquarters. There would be cheering by the disgruntled in the forums, in total over at MSN and a growing population here.

You know what guys this whole thread is getting a little weak. If your bike is so flawed then sell the damn thing. Go get something you want with everything you want on it. I don't give a flying rats *** about the quality of Hondas web site. I don't ride their web site I ride their bike.

How about we add a forum for crying, *****ing, and whining and a kill filter so I don't have to wade through this ****.

Paul

:crackup :crackup :crackup :crackup :crackup :crackup :crackup :bow1:

[Killtimer]

How about we add a forum for crying, *****ing, and whining and a kill filter so I don't have to wade through this ****.
Paul

That's got my vote. Ride it, fix it, or sell it. There is no perfect bike.

[stg1]

That's got my vote. Ride it, fix it, or sell it. There is no perfect bike.

I love my ST. The only thing that I'm going to change is the oil and filter. :D

[Kempo-STer]

Maybe you could ask Bush to invade Honda Headquarters. There would be cheering by the disgruntled in the forums, in total over at MSN and a growing population here.

You know what guys this whole thread is getting a little weak. If your bike is so flawed then sell the damn thing. Go get something you want with everything you want on it. I don't give a flying rats *** about the quality of Hondas web site. I don't ride their web site I ride their bike.

How about we add a forum for crying, *****ing, and whining and a kill filter so I don't have to wade through this ****.

Paul

Thread police:
Then don't wade through it..Better yet..Don't even post to it..
Last I knew we could ***** about whatever we want to ***** about. And that goes for Honda's website. I certainly ain't seeling my ride I love it. But a comment was made about the website and people picked up on it.
So I Hate to tell you your going to be very busy responding to every post on this board that has to do with *****in and whining about windblast, stock seat etc..

Sorry we all here on this thread wasting YOUR precious time. At least you know to AVOID this thread in the future.

Now for the rest of us, where were we??

[Pred8tor]

The problem with wanting Honda to make changes to the ST is that everyone want THEIR particular changes made. Some want heat related changes, some want wind related changes, etc. But some others don't want these changes - it's not universal.

I'm not bothered enough by heat to want to do anything about it, including pay more. the wind issue isn't big with me - heck this is the first bike I've owned with a shield this big - I'm lovin' it.

So what is Honda to do? You try to please most folks - that's the best they can hope for.

[Horst]

wow, Paul ... now that's tellin' them ... :eek:

I think it's time to do the forks ... :D

[g17]

for consolation purposes, just think how disappointed those that purchased Harleys are....

.....sorry, I just couldn't resist :cool:

[Kempo-STer]

wow, Paul ... now that's tellin' them ... :eek:

I think it's time to do the forks ... :D


He's too busy going through every post on this site where people are complaining about something..

[CrashTestDanny]

Honda's attitude for many years has been that we're #1 and we know it. When I sold Honda motorcycles in the past, we had Suzuki and Kawasaki also and we would get promo posters and marketing kits from them and nothing from Honda. Suzuki is really proud of their racing history (Matt Maladin and the rest of them) and Kawasaki would have posters to hang in the dealership of the new products. If Honda did anything, it was on a small scale. Even now when I walk into a multi line dealer I see more of the other guys marketing than Honda.

Personally, I'm happy enough to buy from a company that focuses on building an excellent product more than on sending promotional materials to its dealers. Certainly would love for Honda to listen to me when it comes to what they should fix on the ST, but the web site is not very high on the list and there's not a lot that I would be willing to pay for to have fixed. I get ~2k miles in every month just fine on my bike with all of its very minor flaws and I'm having fun trying to correct some of them myself. :)

[Ken]

Personally, I'm happy enough to buy from a company that focuses on building an excellent product more than on sending promotional materials to its dealers. Certainly would love for Honda to listen to me when it comes to what they should fix on the ST, but the web site is not very high on the list and there's not a lot that I would be willing to pay for to have fixed. I get ~2k miles in every month just fine on my bike with all of its very minor flaws and I'm having fun trying to correct some of them myself. :)
+1 :) :03biker:

[stg1]

Personally, I'm happy enough to buy from a company that focuses on building an excellent product more than on sending promotional materials to its dealers. Certainly would love for Honda to listen to me when it comes to what they should fix on the ST, but the web site is not very high on the list and there's not a lot that I would be willing to pay for to have fixed. I get ~2k miles in every month just fine on my bike with all of its very minor flaws and I'm having fun trying to correct some of them myself. :)

Don't get me wrong I love my Honda. I've been riding them since 1969 with a couple of others thrown in between. I have only changed one thing on my 1300 and that was the seat and that's all I'm going to do. Everything else is a non-issue with me. Web-site or no web-site I would have bought a Honda. IMO they are the Mercedes in a sea of Kia's.

[rosast1300]

It seems to me we are victims of our own success. Forums can successfully provide info, advice, and commentary about quirks or nuances of a particular subject. I owned a Shadow before the ST and one day came upon the SHADOW forum and was amazed at the amount of info and feedback available regarding my bike. Back then the internet seemed smaller and forums more personal. I really don't peruse the forums as much as I used to, but part of that is due to having owned the bike for more than a year now. Anyway, I agree that *****ing is part of the forum experience and all should have that privelage.

I've never been more paranoid about my bike since reading the various ST forums. All this info especially if its negative seems to ruin the experience of owning a particular bike or model.

[jpstinnett]

The only change that I would like to see is cruise control.....make it an option in the event some don't want to pay for it.

This is the feature I was waiting for to make my purchase after selling my ST1100. I am probably going to go with the R1200RT now since it comes with factory cruise. I am kinda bummed since my ST1100 was black and this is the color I wanted. Oh well...

[gstanfield]

You're talking about the multi display that shows fuel level, water temp, air temp, etc right? I have never had a problem reading mine at all. I have noticed that when wearing polarizing type sunglasses it is a tad dark, but I can still read it fine. I'm not trying to be a smart arse here, but have you tried adjusting the contrast to it? Maybe it's one of thoes thigns some people's eyes can see better than others, I don't know. I will agree that it could be much better and if enough people are complaining then maybe Honda should change it, but I've nver seen it unreadable.

George

[gottaride]

Can't read mine in the sunlight with the sun in front of me....period. Glasses, no glasses, makes no difference. I must cup my hand over the display to see it. Night time...awesome! Daytime...blows! When I sit upright, the dash obscures the turn signal indicators. I'm about 73 inches tall. If not pushed in sufficiently and I don't double check....I ride on oblivious to my signal still clicking away. Indicators should have been mounted to the mirrors. Display should have been in red or green. All that being said, this is a great machine and as was previously pointed out, nothings perfect. But if we discuss it....and Honda see's it [i.e.] monitoring this site, (and if they don't, they should) perhaps all this anecdotal information will prompt the Engineers at Honda to make a change. They most likely do not ride these daily as we do and only WE can help with things related to the ergo's of the machine. So we are not "*****ing", we are publishing constructive criticisms. And that's a good thing. This kind of discussion is great. I'd hate to be stuck with the Stepford Cycle where all we can discuss is the gee-whizzedness of the bike.

[newhoupa]

Don't get me wrong I love my Honda. I've been riding them since 1969 with a couple of others thrown in between. I have only changed one thing on my 1300 and that was the seat and that's all I'm going to do. Everything else is a non-issue with me. Web-site or no web-site I would have bought a Honda. IMO they are the Mercedes in a sea of Kia's.

I am in a similar predicament: have 65k miles on a 2003 and have not changed anything but oil, brakes, filter, and tires...

Frankly, I am wondering if there wasn't some wisdom in the seat design: my is really comfortable now: last cross country trek was a couple of months ago and I did just fine. It should be noted however, I may not know what the upper end of comfort for a seat is...

I bought my ride anticipating that I could one up the durablity of a BMW - 100k miles and the bike is just breaking in...

Enjoy

:03biker:

[Carl_T]

This is just weird, I turned my display on bright when I purchased the bike and have never, ever, ever, ever, even for a moment, an instant, or flicker of time, had any trouble at all seeing anything on it. I'm 5' 9.5" so that's likely why the signal light is visible, but the read outs are always as clear as a bell, and I check them very frequently for time mileage etc. Either you guys have it turned down, something isn't right with yours, or I struck the digital read out lottery.

[MNwing]

Have to agree with Carl T, have no problem seeing anything on the dash. I'm 5'9" so height may be a factor.

I usually ride with sun glasses on so not sure what effect that may have.

[gottaride]

Unlessen I can't count....I'm at the end of the road with 3 options, none of which are bright enough. Anyone know if the wiring would take a bulb with a little more wattage???

[kingprawnokay]

I haven't experience problems reading gauges, or anything else yet (knock on wood). I guess I'm the luckiest guy on the site.;)

You could send your gauges to www.bluegauges.com

They will change the backlight from orange to blue. Maybe it would be easier to read...probably look cool at least.

[gottaride]

Thanksw Kevin....but it doesn't look like they have anything for the ST yet. I'll keep an eye on em' though!

[kingprawnokay]

They'll convert any gauges. You send them the gauges and they send them back in 24-48 hours.

[Actionfigurejoe]

Honda is a conservative company. The make slow, methodical changes on their products. I didn't expect any major changes on the "06 ST. It works quite well as it is. I personally have no problem with the display. I can read it day or night. I do think the seat needs addressing. It's terrible. I couldn't ride the stock seat more than 100 miles before my *** began to hurt. Other than the seat, the bike works amazingly well. I hope Honda continues to keep changes on the ST to a minimum. It'll keep accessory prices down and parts readily available. With minimal changes, resale value should remain good for years to come.

[Blackdog]

All old men need something to complain about, but I'm a dismal failure because I can't think of anything. Well, I can't see my feet very well without my glasses and a mirror. Hair that once grew on my head is now growing on my ears and nose, but I assume that the Creator thought he'd done such a good job on my face that he thought he give me a little extra. LOL!! I've got an ST and gas money.......where is that DQ? LOL!!

[NormanPCN]

Maybe you could ask Bush to invade Honda Headquarters. There would be cheering by the disgruntled in the forums, in total over at MSN and a growing population here.

You know what guys this whole thread is getting a little weak. If your bike is so flawed then sell the damn thing. Go get something you want with everything you want on it. I don't give a flying rats *** about the quality of Hondas web site. I don't ride their web site I ride their bike.

How about we add a forum for crying, *****ing, and whining and a kill filter so I don't have to wade through this ****.

Paul

Thank you Paul. I bailed on MSN due to the *****ing, moaning, groaning class action lawsuit stuff and all. I have been reading the *****ing since before the '03 ST's arrived and ever since. Nothing is perfect for one person let alone an entire marketplace.

So the 2006 preview was not up to snuff. Wow, that must take the prize.

The grass is always greener on the other side...

[jacketsfan]

My $.02 on the display: I've had nothing but sunny days since buying my ST two weeks ago. Riding into and away from the sun, I've never had a problem reading it. I couldn't even tell you why anyone would not be able to see it, sunglasses or no. That someone couldn't see it is pretty puzzling, though I don't doubt that statement.

[gottaride]

They'll convert any gauges. You send them the gauges and they send them back in 24-48 hours.


Thanks again.....I couldn't find that info but will take your word for it. I'm going to investigate cost and the like here in the near future when I get a chance.
Best, Jeff

[Mike Millsap]

The illumination level for my dash digital display is set at the brightest of the three available levels. It works very well at night and may actually be too bright. However, in the daytime riding into the sun renders the display completely illegible. And that has been the case for anyone riding my bike.

I have gone to my dealership and WHINED and *****ED and COMPLAINED, but they tell me that my display is just like all the ST1300 displays. On the other hand, the digital display on my Blackbird is totally legible regardless of light conditions so I know that Honda can manufacture and install functional digital displays.

The ST1300 is a very fine, actually an exceptionally fine motorcycle, but it is not a sacred cow and it is not sacrilege to comment upon an apparent flaw in an otherwise excellent package.

If my negative comments (AKA whining, *****ing and complaining) have offended anyone's delicate sensibilities, I am so sorry. I did not know that it woujld hurt or aggravate another ST rider so much. But don't you think that marque loyalty can get a little silly at some point? It's not like I'm bad mouthing someone's wife or kids or girlfriend.

[kingprawnokay]

What'd you say about my mama? :03biker:

[Mike Millsap]

What'd you say about my mama? :03biker:

Kevin,

I have not seen or commented upon your mama, but, if you will send me recent and accurate photographs, videotapes, or other pertinent documentation and information, I will give you my candid assessment if you wish it. Kids, wife, girlfriend?

[kingprawnokay]

LOL!...smart ***. :D

[Kempo-STer]

Shees..

1st.. no one is *****ing about the product..as far as I can tell..
The original post was about the 06 unveiling..Which I couldn't give a crap about (how boring the new line up is or lack of excitement). I have an 05 this year so even is they introduced an ST1800 I would not care or be excited (Thats a lie..OK..if they came out with an 1800..never mind)
I was not even going to post then someone mentioned the website and I agreed that it stinks..

Does it take away from my enjoyment of my 05. Absolutley not. I love the bike and have zero complaints. If I did not like something about the bike..I changed it.

I don't think everyone sits here and whines and *****es..If we have legitimate problems, we post for help and everyone is there..This all started with the web site thing..

Then somebody said..'if you don't like the bike, then sell it.." WHO the F was talking about the bike???

So its all good..If you don't like what's going on in the post THEN IGNORE the G-damm thread..Yet some of you ***** about the *****in..IRONIC isn't??

Let's stand down cause this has spun into the rediculous category..
BTW..I think Honda's website stinks :p: :)

Peace my brothers..
Todd

[Kempo-STer]

This is just weird, I turned my display on bright when I purchased the bike and have never, ever, ever, ever, even for a moment, an instant, or flicker of time, had any trouble at all seeing anything on it. I'm 5' 9.5" so that's likely why the signal light is visible, but the read outs are always as clear as a bell, and I check them very frequently for time mileage etc. Either you guys have it turned down, something isn't right with yours, or I struck the digital read out lottery.


Find myself saying this often..
But I am with Carl as well..

NO problems reading the dash in sunlight :confused:
If someone does swap out the lights keep the gang comprised of what you did..
Serves my curiousity and may help someone who has the same issue.

[Fireball18]

I never had a problem reading the LED or other displays, even in bright sunlight. I'll admit that at times some of the display was not as clear as others, but all in all, no problems with it.

As for all the other (perceived) problems and issues, I don't think Honda can manufacture the "perfect" motorcycle, the ST or any other. The best they can do is make a somewhat educated guess and go from there, as to how things should be. MHO is that the ST1300 is an excellent motorcycle, and the issues so frequently mentioned are mere niggles. Everyone knows that stock seats on motorcycles are, for the most part, junk and seem to be the first thing replaced or modified on a bike. But then there are those for whom the stocker works just fine, thank you very much. Such is the case with my wife's dad. I wish I could make the same claim. The fact is, we're all made differently, so things like seats, reach to the footpegs, handlebars, etc., dash displays and all that are different for different folks.

If you don't like something about a motorcycle, instead of whining about it, change it, be inventive, create something that will make it work better, maybe that will benefit others, as well. If we put it all on Honda to make our desired changes, it'll likely never get done. Want cruise, buy one and install it. Need an electrically adjustable windshield, buy the kit and install it. Need CB or music, put it in. Don't know how to mount your satellite radio? Create a mount. (my father-in-law did--I've posted pics on it some time back) my point is, you can make the difference. Can't do anything about the display, but, then, someone mentioned that you can send it somewhere to a company that can change the color of the backlighting. So I guess it can be changed/improved. For every complalint, there is some sort of fix or cure for it. Endless griping won't fix anything.

[curmudgeon]

I have noticed that the display is much more difficult to see with the windshield set low. I believe this is because of the shield causing reflections on the display. If I don't have the sun behind me, and the shield is set low, I cannot make out the lower half of the display. I have to raise my face shield and sometimes I have to raise the windshield to make out the temperature display. Besides the windshield angle it could also have something to do with height. I noticed some of you that stated you can easily see the display said you're around 5'9". I'm 6'1" so possibly that does change the equation.

Phil

[John]

Mike, thanks for starting this thread. I am always interested in the problems or complaints that others are having with the ST. I spent my hard-earned money on this bike based primarily on what I read on this site. I like the bike, but for me it is not the super bike I read so much about here. I wonder if that means I should run right out and sell it? Be that as it may, if people in a free country did not complain, then we never would have had a free country in the first place: what were Washington and Jefferson and Franklin doing when they started the Revolution. As for the "love it or leave it" mentality that some expressed in response to your opinions, that's the same as saying take what you get or shut up and tuck your tail between your legs and slink away like a whipped dog. That's not the American way, at least not the America I grew up in. When some ran to Canada years ago, I went down and joined the US Army. Does that mean that those of us who stuck around didn't ***** and moan? Hell no it doesn't! We had plenty to say. We figured it was our right. And as for not wanting to "wade through" a post that complains about the all-wonderful, always-right-no-matter-what Honda motorcycle company, I don't think I'd open a thread that says, "Disappointed with Honda." Would you? Thanks again.

John

[sherob]

OK... this went from product reviews sucked to the following: website sucks, display sucks, seat sucks, the bike isn't living up to the expectations I gleemed from this site. Throw in some postive notes here and there and that pretty much sums this thread up.

Notice a pattern here? :rolleyes: Nothing is perfect... if there was a perfect bike out there, everybody would own it and there would only be one bike. ;)

JMHO... :)

[Carl_T]

I have gone to my dealership and WHINED and *****ED and COMPLAINED, but they tell me that my display is just like all the ST1300 displays. Mike take a look at how many other guys here can see there display, go back to the dealer and tell him he's full of crap and needs to fix it.

[Diggers1300]

... would look hard into the safety aspect of changing the display to blue. Amber won't affect your night vision like blue can. Maybe green? Just a thought - hope that doesn't open a can of worms! :rolleyes:

Take the mythical "Perfect" bike add some excessive heat (tolerable), install a marginal seat, don't equip a touring bike with cruise, and install a display that works better for the shorter riders and what do you have... An '03-'06 ST1300! :)

Farkle and tweak 'till your hearts content and now what do you have...


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THE PERFECT BIKE FOR YOU! ;)

[NormanPCN]

The ST1300 is a very fine, actually an exceptionally fine motorcycle, but it is not a sacred cow and it is not sacrilege to comment upon an apparent flaw in an otherwise excellent package.

If my negative comments (AKA whining, *****ing and complaining) have offended anyone's delicate sensibilities, I am so sorry. I did not know that it woujld hurt or aggravate another ST rider so much. But don't you think that marque loyalty can get a little silly at some point? It's not like I'm bad mouthing someone's wife or kids or girlfriend.

As one who *****ed about your comments, I will post a final comment/*****. Nothing "delicate" or "hurt" about me. Loyalty? For all you know I feel the same way you do. Aggravated. Close enough. More like sick and tired.

I cannot comprehend why someone who is disappointed, feels the need to inform the world that they are disappointed. Internet forms are not like kicking the tires with fellow riders. We have thousands of users and if most felt the need to inform the world about our disappointments that is all we would be reading about on these forums. To use a WeSTOC analogy. Broadcasting on a forum is like having the microphone at the banquet. Comments made at happy hour or kicking the tires are different that when you have the mic in a hall of people. But that is me and my idea of etiquette.

[Mike Millsap]

[QUOTE=
I cannot comprehend why someone who is disappointed, feels the need to inform the world that they are disappointed. Internet forms are not like kicking the tires with fellow riders. We have thousands of users and if most felt the need to inform the world about our disappointments that is all we would be reading about on these forums. To use a WeSTOC analogy. Broadcasting on a forum is like having the microphone at the banquet. Comments made at happy hour or kicking the tires are different that when you have the mic in a hall of people. But that is me and my idea of etiquette.[/QUOTE]

Well, Norman, I suppose there is always the possibiility that the manufacturer may tune in to what the consumers, riders in this instance, are saying about their product. For example, the Internet BMW Riders forum discussed the surging flaw in the boxer engines over a period of years, and the factory finally paid attention and did something about it. Also, in the meantime, a fellow by the name of Rob Lentinii, now deceased, came up with a tuning procedure that was pretty effective but disavowed by the factory. And the truth is that Honda does not pay much attention to its ST riders. I've been riding the Honda Sports Tourers a long time (check out my STOC #), and that has always been the case. I suppose that someday they will get their act together and fix the flaws in the bike like the windscreens that you have been modifying. Some can be fixed by the rider and some cannot. Meanwhile, it's disappointing that Honda continues to ignore its customers.

But my grandmother would agree with your notions about etiquette. Never say anything about anyone unless you can say something nice. Okay.

[Pred8tor]

I suppose that someday they will get their act together and fix the flaws in the bike like the windscreens that you have been modifying. Some can be fixed by the rider and some cannot. Meanwhile, it's disappointing that Honda continues to ignore its customers.

The only thing about Honda "fixing" all of the problems is that we don't all agree on what the problems are. Some swap seats - but others keep the stock seat and don't really have a problem with it. Windshield? I bet most of the folks here still use the stock shield, and are content. I am, at least.

I would expect Honda to fix real problems - but most of the things that some of us consider problems aren't seen that way by others. Honda changes the seat so you'll like it, and I may not like it any longer.

Maybe one day they'll offer the ST like they do cars, with a list of options available from the factory. Pick your own seat, windshield, cruise, etc.

Until then, it's up to the individual owner to make mods according to their taste. Personally, I like mine stock. I may add risers. Cruise would be nice, but I'll probably never get it. I'm really happy with it, and I can't see complaining because it's not custom made for ME.

[dpadair]

[QUOTE=gottaride]Want some quality pictures of the machine your considering? Well the 2 dimensional puny photos they supply simply put, SUCK!QUOTE]

I agree. One pic does not make a "gallery"!

Come on, Honda.

[jbim]

I for one would agree to pay more money for cruise control and heated seat. I wouldn't mine as well a version of BMW's electronic suspension adjustment. That is probably the next wave as ABS was. I hear BMW has done a better job at wind-tunneling the fairing and windshield. Maybe there is room for improvement there as well.

[acmaui]

Well, Norman, I suppose there is always the possibiility that the manufacturer may tune in to what the consumers, riders in this instance, are saying about their product. For example, the Internet BMW Riders forum discussed the surging flaw in the boxer engines over a period of years, and the factory finally paid attention and did something about it. Also, in the meantime, a fellow by the name of Rob Lentinii, now deceased, came up with a tuning procedure that was pretty effective but disavowed by the factory. And the truth is that Honda does not pay much attention to its ST riders. I've been riding the Honda Sports Tourers a long time (check out my STOC #), and that has always been the case. I suppose that someday they will get their act together and fix the flaws in the bike like the windscreens that you have been modifying. Some can be fixed by the rider and some cannot. Meanwhile, it's disappointing that Honda continues to ignore its customers.

But my grandmother would agree with your notions about etiquette. Never say anything about anyone unless you can say something nice. Okay.


I have to agree with you, and disagree with Norman and Pred8tor. Honda would not have addressed heat issues if every one had just snapped to attention and saluted the flag. O...wait...what heat issues...Honda just made the changes to the newer models because ??????? Negitive feedback is as important as positive, and there is no "too small" or "I don't see it that way" problems that are to insignificant to fix for a company that truly cares about it's product. What are you afraid of, that Honda may fix a problem that you labled insignificant or didn't bother you?

[Ken]

Proof positive that these problems are all relative. It's nice to see how few problems are actually reported about the ST13 and, in the grand scheme of things, how minor they really are. After reading about the design and QC issues I see on other bike boards, I'm very thankful I bought a Honda.