WESTOC X: Just got back !!

[AZST]

2255 total miles.

This event was a good time. Great job guys.

Many great conversations and happenings. Here are my highlights in chronological order:

1. Coming in on the very twisty 58 (out in the middle of nowhere) and this black very 'rough' looking ST1100 smokes me in a corner. I never even saw him back there....and didn't see him again until the parking lot of the hotel. Turns out the rider is George (STOC #004) and the bike is a salvage piece that he brought back to life. Classic.

2. Meeting folks. Mark B., Tim, Bill, Ray & Hope, Martin, Mike and Krista, Clay, Joe C., Allen S., Patti, Stephen W., Hurricane Taka, and many others.

3. Riding PCH (3 times). As a desert dweller, a road like this, my ST and that coastal scenery was a blast!!

4. Accidentally meeting up with Clay, Steve and Allen's group on the way back to the hotel. Without knowing who they were, they welcomed me to join up and we proceeded through Morro Bay State Park checking the sites.

5. Taking a break on the PCH and witnessing two thonged femininas gather themselves into their wet suits. Being in their natural habitat, I just said hello and acted like I was looking for something on the bike. Tried to get their photo w/ my bike, but they declined for fear of their images being plastered all over the internet. I tried to explain that it would only appear on ST-Owners.com, but mentioning this site seemed to convince them even less. BTW, Gregg (805Gregg) from Ojai was there before I was !!!

6. Banquet was a good time.

7. Buttpaste.

8. Taking the long way home through Yosemite and seeing some sites. Despite the lengthy (and very windy) ride across the desert last night, it was well worth it. What a great place that is. I am jealous of those that are going on this trip later on in September.

Other many great memories....looking forward to Golden, CO next year.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
STOC# 5197
:04biker:

[STPilot]

Just made it in also. I ended up going up to Tahoe to hang out with some friends Friday night and Most of today. About 1600 miles this week.

Had an absolute blast at WeSToc. Thanks to everyone that made it an event to remember. Special thanks to NM6R (and Mrs NM6R) for letting me chase them around the state all week. It was great meeting and hangin out with all the rest, Mark, Beatlejuice, AZST, 805Gregg, JoeC, MartinB, NormanPCN, HRCRob, I'm sure there are more....Thanks guys, it was a complete blast.:D
I can't wait to see how many of the same guys turn up at the YoSemiTe Ride.

Things I learned about at WeSToc:
Blue Rules!:04biker:
What the hell is Butt Paste? and why were they giving it away?:eek:
It is possible to pass a whole pack of ST's in tight twisties (not my fault, I was just following NM6R):p:
Pogs;)
The ST is still extremely stable at 140
Blue Rules!
The $50 dollar enchilada at the banquet sucked pretty hard:confused:


I took over 100 pix that I will upload the best of into the Gallery
But here are a few that stand out. :D

[AgSTreak]

Great, thanks for sharing with the rest of us. Let us know where you post the rest of the pics. Gotta think hard about Golden, CO. :bow1: :bow1:

[STPilot]

Bryan,

Which route did you guys end up taking home??

[STPilot]

Pix uploaded :D :p: :plane1: :banr1: :beer3:


Clicky (http://www.st-owners.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=41&userid=)

[nm6r]

"Things I learned about at WeSToc:
Blue Rules!
What the hell is Butt Paste? and why were they giving it away?
It is possible to pass a whole pack of ST's in tight twisties (not my fault, I was just following NM6R)
Pogs
The ST is still extremely stable at 140
Blue Rules!
The $50 dollar enchilada at the banquet sucked pretty hard"

We made it back Friday with only 1142 miles on the clock. They were all good miles. We enjoyed riding with ST Pilot on the way there, there, and back. Good times. Beer good. It was nice to meet everyone we did. It was nice to ride with those that did. There was definitely some good riding around the area.

Most definitely, Blue Rules! (or so we heard & read)
I'm still trying to figure out Buttpaste. (although it seemed to be a major part of WeSToc X)
Hwy 58 rocks! (the technical portion is a great place to pass)
ST's rock! (especially the blue ones)
Did I miss the group photo? (was suppose to have been at 4pm on Thursday)

I can't speak for the $50 banquet enchilada. I'm still pissed at the way that whole thing was handled!

I would have spent the $50 on the overpriced enchilada that was promised to be "well worth the money" at registration, however, Hope never eats a full meal and I shouldn't. We asked if we could buy one ticket for one meal and was told, "no ticket, no entry". So there was no way we were going to drop $100 for one meal. BTW, I understand the $50 is what the hotel charged for the meal which reinforces my next point. Here's the part that really pisses me off and there's no excuse for it. If you didn't buy a banquet ticket, you were not eligible for raffle prizes that night. There was actually (at least) 4 of us that showed up after dinner to share in the festivities and one of the disorganizers walked all the way to the back and was asking for tickets and stated, "I'm not sure you can be here." That was extremely rude. I have never felt so excluded from an event as I did then.

An otherwise excellent event was spoiled at the end by a lack of consideration.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[Don-STOC237]

@nm6r

I'm happy you had a good time at WeSTOC.

Re: the closing banquet. Admission to the banquet and festivities were by ticket only. Admissions are controlled because once you're in, the DO's have no way of knowing if you paid for the banquet or not.

I'm not sure what your complaint is.

Many of us were disappointed by the food quality for the price, but like you said, that is what the hotel charged, and the DO's had to pass along the expense. It was the least expensive they had there. The price charged was the price of admission to the closing banquet, the food, and eligibility for the prizes, not just for the food, although the costs other than the food were subsidized by sponsor donations.

The DO's were under plenty of stress putting this on, and I don't blame one of them for challenging you on your right to enter the closing banquet without a ticket, whether or not the food service was over. I advised the DO that asked me about it, to just let you stay rather than make a scene.

Just because you got away with crashing a party you didn't contribute to to attend, doesn't IMO make you eligible to complain about the reception you received while doing the crashing. Everyone else in the room paid to be there, except you and your crew.

I'm sorry if you didn't feel especially welcomed to the closing banquet. But on reflection, wasn't that your fault?

[nm6r]

Don, apparently you didn't read my post in it's entirety. In answer to your question, NO I don't think it was my fault.

At registration we were told the $50 per person was for the banquet. We already paid our entry fee to WeSToc which was suppose to include eligibility for raffle prizes. We didn't get away with crashing a party we didn't contribute to. The banquet was over and as WeSToc attendees we wanted to share in the closing festivities which common sense says would be open to everyone.

BTW, I would argue everyone else in the room paid to be there, except me and my crew (as you put it).

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[STPilot]

Party crashing? Did I miss something fun? I don’t recall anyone crashing the party, I saw a few folks come into the banquet hall well after dinner was done so they could watch the awards ceremony? Is that considered crashing these days? Were they not part of westoc? They had name badges on, so I guess they paid registration fees. Was the $50 dollar fee just for the food, or was it for the “privilege” of watching the awards and closing ceremony?? I’m confused. :eek:

[Don-STOC237]

The closing banquet and all attendant activities of the evening were admission by ticket only. The rally fee gives you your registration, your nametags, etc. and entry into the special drawings held at the opening meeting and at other points during the rally EXCEPT the closing banquet.

You did notice that there were separate drawing tickets for the banquet, did you not?

Plain and simple, if you didn't pay to attend the banquet, you shouldn't have attended, food or no food.

Let's say only 50% of WeSTOC attendees decided to pay for the closing banquet, but everyone wanted to attend. How would that affect our ability to put on the banquet, pay the expenses (room rental, AV rental, etc etc) and meet hotel minimums for the banquet, which also affects our other hotel expenses? Not favorably, I can assure you.

Think about it.

Plain and simple, if you didn't pay to attend the closing banquet, you shouldn't have been there. The fact that you were allowed to stay was a gift. Appreciate it and quit *****ing.

Don -- WEC, WDT

[Louie Louie]

Great meeting all of you. AZST,the quality of those pictures is amazing..what camera where you using?

[AZST]

Great meeting all of you. AZST,the quality of those pictures is amazing..what camera where you using?

Louie,

Camera is a Canon Elph S230, 3.2 Pixel. I bought it about 1.5 year ago and paid approx $350.

Was in Circuit City the other day and saw the latest Elph (s500) and it was less than $275.00 Only complaint about the S230 is that the zoom on it is not the greatest. My photos when using the zoom tend to be grainy and subject is still difficult to see with great detail. Overall though, the camera is light, easy to use, I've dropped it a few times--no problem yet w/ breakage and relatively compact.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
STOC# 5197
:04biker:

[nm6r]

"Appreciate it and quit *****ing."

How dare you? You obviously have no respect for members of this forum that contribute to make it what it is.

Don, you keep repeating yourself and you still just don't get it. I notice you only reply to certain portions of posts, sidestepping the issue(s) at hand.

I appreciate volunteer efforts, however, volunteer or not, the results should be professional before, during and after.

You might consider taking some pride in actually organizing the event instead of being a "DisOrganizer" as you have proudly displayed in your posts. Then these types of things would not occur.

You have no right to be condescending to anyone. You have done this in the past, and I assure you, it's not appreciated.

I'm sorry if you feel insulted. But on reflection, wasn't that your fault?

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[Don-STOC237]

OK, Ray,

You accuse me of selectively replying to your posts...

First, let's talk about reading comprehension, shall we?

My quote from an earlier post: "Everyone else in the room paid to be there, except you and your crew."

Your quote from a following post: "BTW, I would argue everyone else in the room paid to be there, except me and my crew (as you put it)."

Uh, ok, whatever you say, Ray...



Why don't you explain to me just exactly what it is that I'm not "getting." At best, it seems you're confused about how the rally, and attendant fees, were structured. Perhaps we didn't do a good enough job of explaining that up front. We'll try to do better next year. I.e. next year, no tickee, no entry and we'll probably have to hire a bouncer to enforce it.

Here's a summary, in case you didn't understand my last two posts:

You paid your $15 rally fee. You got all the benefits of that fee, as explained in an earlier post.

You didn't purchase a banquet ticket. You crashed the banquet program and got away with it, because we didn't want to make a scene and toss you out.

Therefore, you got to participate in some of the benefits the banquet fee paid for without paying for it. Now you're *****ing because we didn't adequately welcome you into the banquet hall.

I have a suggestion: Next time you feel up to it, go to your local dinner theatre and try walking in after the meal, just as the show is starting. Your response when asked to leave should be, "I didn't want to pay for the food, I just wanted to see the show for free." See how far it gets you...

So, just exactly what are the issues I'm sidestepping?

As far as not respecting the members of this forum, you're way off base there. I've been providing, at no cost to members, a communication medium for STOC members and other ST1100 and ST1300 owners to communicate, and have been tending it and contributing my time to it daily for close to 10 years now.

This forum has been in existance for less than 2 years and I heartily respect the job that Charlie and Joe have done with it. Having done this activity for so long, I have plenty of respect for what it takes to maintain it and make it work.

Anybody can write a post denigrating the efforts of people who actually do the work. What have you been doing to help?

As far as my efforts for WeSTOC are concerned, I've been an active member of the DO teams (DO is a joke catch phrase from the first WeSTOCs and has no bearing or comment on the quality or quantity of work involved in putting on WeSTOC) for 5 different WeSTOCs, and a lead DO on two of them. I'm also a charter member of, and in fact organized, the WeSTOC Emeritus Council, which is the body that shepards this event and makes it happen every year. I've put in thousands of hours of work over the years on making WeSTOC happen. What have you been doing to help?

In fact, Ray, since you decided to get personal, I notice you're not even a STOC member. In other words, you've apparently been too lazy to take 5 minutes to fill out an application for a free STOC membership number before attending a STOC rally.

If you think all this is condescending to you, so be it. I could give a flying f**k what you think. People who know me know how much I've contributed, and the reputation, for better or worse, that I've developed over the years.


And if you don't like the way WeSTOC, or any other rally, is run, remember, your attendance is voluntary...

[nm6r]

OK, Ray,

You accuse me of selectively replying to your posts...

First, let's talk about reading comprehension, shall we?

My quote from an earlier post: "Everyone else in the room paid to be there, except you and your crew."

Your quote from a following post: "BTW, I would argue everyone else in the room paid to be there, except me and my crew (as you put it)."

Uh, ok, whatever you say, Ray...



Why don't you explain to me just exactly what it is that I'm not "getting." At best, it seems you're confused about how the rally, and attendant fees, were structured. Perhaps we didn't do a good enough job of explaining that up front. We'll try to do better next year. I.e. next year, no tickee, no entry and we'll probably have to hire a bouncer to enforce it.

Here's a summary, in case you didn't understand my last two posts:

You paid your $15 rally fee. You got all the benefits of that fee, as explained in an earlier post.

You didn't purchase a banquet ticket. You crashed the banquet program and got away with it, because we didn't want to make a scene and toss you out.

Therefore, you got to participate in some of the benefits the banquet fee paid for without paying for it. Now you're *****ing because we didn't adequately welcome you into the banquet hall.

I have a suggestion: Next time you feel up to it, go to your local dinner theatre and try walking in after the meal, just as the show is starting. Your response when asked to leave should be, "I didn't want to pay for the food, I just wanted to see the show for free." See how far it gets you...

So, just exactly what are the issues I'm sidestepping?

As far as not respecting the members of this forum, you're way off base there. I've been providing, at no cost to members, a communication medium for STOC members and other ST1100 and ST1300 owners to communicate, and have been tending it and contributing my time to it daily for close to 10 years now.

This forum has been in existance for less than 2 years and I heartily respect the job that Charlie and Joe have done with it. Having done this activity for so long, I have plenty of respect for what it takes to maintain it and make it work.

Anybody can write a post denigrating the efforts of people who actually do the work. What have you been doing to help?

As far as my efforts for WeSTOC are concerned, I've been an active member of the DO teams (DO is a joke catch phrase from the first WeSTOCs and has no bearing or comment on the quality or quantity of work involved in putting on WeSTOC) for 5 different WeSTOCs, and a lead DO on two of them. I'm also a charter member of, and in fact organized, the WeSTOC Emeritus Council, which is the body that shepards this event and makes it happen every year. I've put in thousands of hours of work over the years on making WeSTOC happen. What have you been doing to help?

In fact, Ray, since you decided to get personal, I notice you're not even a STOC member. In other words, you've apparently been too lazy to take 5 minutes to fill out an application for a free STOC membership number before attending a STOC rally.

If you think all this is condescending to you, so be it. I could give a flying f**k what you think. People who know me know how much I've contributed, and the reputation, for better or worse, that I've developed over the years.


And if you don't like the way WeSTOC, or any other rally, is run, remember, your attendance is voluntary...


Don, please accept my apologies.

:bow1: Obviously, I had no idea who you are.

Ray
http://www.frontiernet.net/~st1300rider/smile04Bikerwheelie.gif

[ST090]

Don--KOTL:

To you and all the DO's, thanks for the past Westoc's and what you will hopefully contribute to future Westoc's for the benefit of all riders. For those who may be young to the membership, I have been around for awhile (low STOC#) and I have observed what Don and other DO's have and will hopefully contribute to future events for the benefit of all of us. Even though there may have been some disappointments for some with Westoc X, let's think positive and learn from the past. It doesn't take much criticism to discourage volunteers. In my opinion, Westoc is the best STOC event--Thanks to all the volunteers.

John Wilson
ST090

[STPilot]

Don,

I seriously doubt anyone was trying to take advantage of anything or anyone, they waited until after food service was over, as they were told that the $50 was to cover the food because that’s what the hotel was charging the DO’s. Also, as you said, there were separate raffle tickets for the banquet, so they could not have won anything without paying. They just wanted to see the awards. Is that wrong? I hardly think this constitutes “crashing” the party. What did they “get away with”? Did they steal food? Drink all the beer? Dance on the tables? What if they had won something from the Show and Shine? Would they have been disqualified because they didn’t buy a banquet ticket? Damn nice if you to “let them stay” to see a part of the rally that they thought they were a part of. Anyway, you asked what has Ray done to contribute lately? I know for a fact that Ray is VERY knowledgeable about the ST and has posted numerous threads with helpful info and has personally helped several folks that I know of install various items on their bikes. He’s also a great rider and has personally taught ME a lot about riding. That’s why I came to this forum, to learn and have fun. I’m sure Ray has his reasons for not having a “stoc” number, big deal, I have one and as a matter of fact you can have it back if you want it, I don’t give a Flying F%*k.



Tim, PDQ, BFD

[ride-on]

My wife and I really enjoyed WESTOC X. We made new friends, felt very welcome even though it was only our second WESTOC, and had a great time riding. The Embassy Suites was a great location--who could ask for more-- a great room with breakfast included not to mention the FREE drinks for two hours each evening that really helped foster the camaraderie giving us a place to meet and discuss the days events. Even with a bit of a disappointing banquet (we were the last table to be called and many items on the buffet line were gone) all the rest of the trip more than made up for it.

Thanks so much to the DO's for choosing a great location and planning a great event. Looking forward to Golden, Colorado!!!!

Tom and Janice Stowers :bow1:

[STPilot]

My wife and I really enjoyed WESTOC X. We made new friends, felt very welcome even though it was only our second WESTOC, and had a great time riding. The Embassy Suites was a great location--who could ask for more-- a great room with breakfast included not to mention the FREE drinks for two hours each evening that really helped foster the camaraderie giving us a place to meet and discuss the days events. Even with a bit of a disappointing banquet (we were the last table to be called and many items on the buffet line were gone) all the rest of the trip more than made up for it.

Thanks so much to the DO's for choosing a great location and planning a great event. Looking forward to Golden, Colorado!!!!

Tom and Janice Stowers :bow1:

Totally agree Tom, the location was *****en. San Luis is a fun town and the area has some great roads. Some of the best riding I've done this year. I think the hotel did a pretty good job with the breakfast and the beer (mmmm....beer) Too bad about the banquet though. :(

[NormanPCN]

The $50 dollar enchilada at the banquet sucked pretty hard:confused:

Yea that was a pretty low, but I was a bit miffed that the salad bowls were empty. The two bowls next to them were empty, actually one olive in one bowl, and there was no beef. I heard "it's coming" but I scooped what was there and the festivities started so I never tried to go back to see if stuff showed up. The hotel really dropped the ball.

Last year and this I heard comments about the food not worth the money. What you are really paying for is the use of the room and hotels typically skip on food preparation to increase profit. At least that is my experience from various trade "hotel banquet room" events. Minden was actually high on the value/quality scale. Maybe that had something to do with it being something of a resort hotel and SLO was a business hotel. Resort hotels like word of mouth because they want people to come back for other occasions.

Not sure what to think of a host not giving a flying f**k about what attendees think. Obviously, at least to me, when you host a hundred people the answer is mostly no rather than yes.

Not sure if you can do the raffle separate from a banquet given that the event is hosted in a Hotel. As a member of a 4x4 club (Pt Mugu 4x4 Club), I have hosted an event (Fright Night). But this was done under the stars (haunted house like events on the 4x4 trail) and sun (breakfast and subsequent raffle). The raffle was separate from the food, but then we also sold extra raffle tickets as fund raising. One raffle ticket for registering. This means you need to have the raffle separate. The fund raising was donated to charities, typically 4x4 related. We did "sell out" by offereing to post advertizing banners for really nice donations like an 8000lb winch.

[ArTravlR]

I can state from personal experience that it is very difficult to arrange an event the scale of WeSTOC and assure quality of service. IMHO, the DOs have done an excellent job in the past, however it may be that WeSTOC has grown in scale beyond the capabilities of an organization without a formal governing body.


Robert Bashaw
STOC 2933
LoweST Arkansas
CBR1000F
ST1100A2
VFR800A5 NCC-1701

[STPilot]

You're right Charlie. I'm done. I apologize to the rest of the forum for airing this out in public. :bow1:

[Don-STOC237]

I can state from personal experience that it is very difficult to arrange an event the scale of WeSTOC and assure quality of service. IMHO, the DOs have done an excellent job in the past, however it may be that WeSTOC has grown in scale beyond the capabilities of an organization without a formal governing body.


Robert Bashaw
STOC 2933
LoweST Arkansas
CBR1000F
ST1100A2
VFR800A5 NCC-1701

Robert,

WeSTOC has a formal governing body, called the WeSTOC Emeritus Council, which consists of all the people who have previously been lead DO's of previous WeSTOC events, and several others who have provided meritorius service to multiple WeSTOC's. Induction is by invitation only. We have our own separate communication medium and meet via that medium throughout the year to ensure that WeSTOC is successful each year.

And no, we don't have any control over the banquet food. :D

[Don-STOC237]

Charlie, Thanks for bringing your usual calming influence to the subject here.

Ray and others, I repeat my apology on behalf of the WeSTOC DO's for not making the attendance policy (no-ticket, no entry) clearly understood at registration and on the website. I assure you that it will be corrected for next year's event. I apologize for any misunderstandings it caused and for any embarrassment you suffered on account of such misunderstanding.

Norman, we didn't do any raffles at WeSTOC, nor are we ever likely to. What we had was two different prize giveaways, one for the Tues-Wed drawings paid for with the reg fee, and another separate one paid for by the banquet fee.

Anyway, I'm done posting on this thread. I apologize to those forum members who were offended by anything I might have said here. Perhaps I'm just too close to the situation to see all sides of it, if so, I'm sorry.

On a better note, the WEC and the WeSTOC XI DO's are looking forward to a great rally next year in Golden Colorado. We have, as usual, a first-class venue lined up (stay tuned for the website, which I assure you will be forthcoming a lot earlier this year), and we'll have great suggested rides for you to enjoy.

Most of all, we'll have the great comradeship for which WeSTOC has always been famous.

Don -- WEC

[NormanPCN]

Norman, we didn't do any raffles at WeSTOC, nor are we ever likely to. What we had was two different prize giveaways, one for the Tues-Wed drawings paid for with the reg fee, and another separate one paid for by the banquet fee.


Okay, I think I understand your meaning. By the literal definition the WeSTOC prize giveaway is a raffle, hence my use of the word.

[NewsMag]

Well a lot of vitriol has been written here. :cus: I applaud Charlie for taking the soft approach in moderating the forum - many would have just deleted the posts or banned folks or both. :badabing:

I will offer another point of view from another WEC member (myself). :-? Nobody is saying the food was good or worth the money - it was not. And sure, the organizers (which we call Disorganizers for a reason) COULD have spent more of their uncompensated time to make sure the food was better or cheaper or restocked properly, as Ridah Babe pointed out. But they did not. Really the procured meals to date have been quite good, so there was no history to suggest otherwise. Frankly the DOs felt they had done plenty of work, but the criticisms sound as if they SHOULD have done even more. In the past, our response has always been, "If you can do better, submit a proposal for a future WeSTOC and (if selected) we will all learn from your experience." BTW, we will be soliciting proposals for 2007 in a few months. ;)

This is not to say your feedback is not wanted or appreciated. :shout1: It IS to say that the feedback needs to be presented in the same spirit as the voluntary donations of time and effort by the Disorganizers. Many past organizers of WeSTOC, group buys, etc, have sworn off ever doing it again because of the vocal complaints that appear not to appreciate the effort or scope of the task. So if you are pissed off and want to vent, be prepared to take some back. :shtf1:

(Clearly Ridah Babe does appreciate the effort and scope. The DOs are not professionals in this field, however, and deserve some slack.)

I spent some time with first timers and others actively soliciting feedback before dinner. Other WEC members did the same. It's clear that several on this thread felt the prize drawings on the last day should have been divorced from the dinner. This was not the design, and the design simply could not be changed by your requests at the event. It CAN be considered for the future (though it seems to me that divorcing the two will add logistical complexity). But since the rally Disorganizers are doing all the work, THEY get to make ALL the calls. The WEC can make suggestions, but the DOs make the final decisions. If you want to make the final decisions, the ONLY way is to jump in and do one, or join the team working on the next one. Just because you give feedback, there is no requirement for the DOs to agree with you and do it, or to even be nice to you. :eek:

Some good news for WeSTOC XI, the Marriott chain takes their food service seriously (so quality should be good again) :eat1: , and Whit has negotiated a very good price. :clap2: Whether the prize tix will be combined with the banquet tix is a decision that Whit's team will be making. If they choose not to do it, it doesn't mean that they didn't get your feedback. Or even that they didn't agree. It may be an issue of time or manpower. And there are 300 rooms in the hotel, so the event can be quite large next year!

For those of you that missed some food, you may have been better off. Mine was so salty I could hardly put my riding gloves on the next day! :mad:

[ST_Jim]

For those of you that missed some food, you may have been better off. Mine was so salty I could hardly put my riding gloves on the next day! :mad:It hit me in the ankles - I could hardly zip up my boots in the morning! :eek:

Jim

[ligito]

As a first timer, I enjoyed it and so did my riding buddy Frank.

Leo

[ligito]

PS--I have a hard time putting my riding boots on, everyday. ;)