Now for Something Completely Different - Nice Words about Corbin

[NewsMag]

I realize that I stand in a small minority of ST-Owners and perhaps Motorcyclists in general when I share the following two opinions:

1) I really hate Aerostitch riding gear (Darien & Roadcrafter) :cus:
2) I really like Corbin seats :22yikes:

Topic 1 is a subject for another day. If you are firmly convinced that I am wrong on #2, go read another post. If not, you may find the following information helpful. :)

The stock seats on the ST1100 and ST1300, most of us agree, are designed by a sadist in Japan for the sole purpose of torturing Americans. I suffered for a couple of years with the stock ST11 seat before throwing in the towel and riding (with my pillion) to Corbin in Castroville, Cal for a custom seat. We were well treated and got to test and shape and re-test the seat before the cover was fabricated and applied. They also made a matching pad cover for the Hondaline backrest for us. The resulting seat served us well and got us over 80k miles of comfortable travel around the US and Canada for many years, and is still being used by the bike's new owner.

The ST13 seat, if anything, is worse than the ST11's - multiple adjustments notwithstanding. Soon after my bike purchase a used, heated Corbin ST13 seat with silver side panels and seat heaters became available at an attractive price, and I snapped it up.

If you haven't heard, the primary complaint about Corbin seats, especially for the ST13, are that they are TOO DAMN HARD. Like an oak plank, etc. OK, then what's wrong with the stock seat? Simply this - it's too damn SOFT. So it seems logical that a harder seat should be BETTER, right? Here's my take on it.

Corbin borrows bikes from dealers/new owners to take measurements to design seat pans, cushions and covers. Since the products are based on measurements and not feedback from humans, the "standard" products may not be optimally designed. I'm absolutely sure this is the case for the ST13 seat. If you push down on it with your hand or finger, it's pretty squishy, but not poofy like the stock seat. So it really isn't THAT hard. But the stock design is off. The seat pan when mounted as designed slopes down from tail to tip, and the rider slides into the tank. But the cushion design assumes the pan will be level - so the SHAPE of the cushions is all wrong - leading to an uncomfortable feeling of hardness. And the pillion always sliding into the rider. And the rider all sliding into the tank. So early model standard Corbins are pretty much all uncomfortable and feel too hard.

One way to overcome the problem is to mount the forward tab of the Corbin on TOP of the seat height adjuster, rather than under. If you secure the seat adjuster to the center position with a zip tie, you can use the same approach and get the Corbin even more level, but still with a forward tilt. Despite this, the seat cushions are poorly shaped. This was the case with my seat. On my custom ST11 Corbin I could easily do 200 miles plus without stopping. On the new ST13 Corbin it was 80 miles and then pain set in. This really sucks, because the pain is not in the butt, but forward of that in a much less comfortable area!

So what are we to do? See next post for details...

[NewsMag]

Since my first big dog ride on the new ST13 was to WeSTOC X in California, I found myself visiting friends and riding roads in my old neighborhood, Gilroy California, the Garlic Captial of the World. :yes:

Very close to Gilroy is Hollister, California, the new home of Corbin. I took a day off riding the Saturday after WeSTOC and took the STeed to the factory for a look-see at what could be done. I had no appointment of any kind, but what the heck. I arrived at a very busy place across from the Hollister Airport. (SEE FIRST PIC BELOW) It took a bit to find the sales/service guy, and we discussed rework versus rebuild versus a new seat. He went to the bike and felt around on the seat with his hands, and immediately saw the problem. Did not need me to sit on the bike or anything. His advice - "Let us rework the foam for you. There are two non-appointment bikes ahead of you and you are next. It will be about 90 minutes before we can start." Terms were $60 per hour shop rate, whatever it took. This was much less than a new seat, and not too awful a wait for no appointment, so I went for it. And, as an apology for the wait, he gave me a voucher for two for free breakfast or lunch at their very cool in-house cafe. (SEE SECOND PIC)

Having just had a big breakfast, I decided to save it for lunch, and spent some time looking at the beautiful old bikes in the Corbin showroom. (SEE THIRD AND FOURTH PICS) About two hours later I was introduced to my tech, Armando, who led a team in reworking my seat. SEE FIFTH PIC

See next post for the rest of the story...

[NewsMag]

You can see my ST13 in the fifth pic above, in the foreground. In the background there's a window (not a mirror) that shows an idea of how huge the showroom is. Behind me were more windows to the cafe, where you could sit and eat diner food while watching them work on your seat.

Corbin's ride-in area has over a dozen bays, and there are enough people there to work on 14-15 bikes at once. (SEE PIX BELOW). The procedure, once you have your tech assigned, is that you tell the service guy what you want, and he relays in Spanish to the tech and his assistants. There may be a question or two back to you, then more Spanish. They were very concerned about how I had the seat mounted above the adjuster, so I showed them how it worked, and they shrugged and went with it. They noted there was a bit of difficulty latching, and said they'd fix that too.

First step was to remove the cover, using a special tool. Then the heater and wiring was ripped out, and the heater element discarded. Then Armando took nearly ALL the foam off the seat. After this he glued moto-magazine pages to the base, making the seat look like a big paper cup. He then took the seat into a chamber and re-layed in the foam, with an entirely different shape. He then sanded it smooth, building up some areas and cutting down others. After maybe 90 more minutes, they called me over, put the seat on the bike, threw a leather scrap over it, and I took it for a ride around the building. MUCH better. They also had reshaped the pillion angle to reduce the slamming effect of braking and deceleration. I declared it perfect on the first try (which was not the case with the original seat many years earlier).

They next installed a new heater element on both rider and pillion seat, embedded in quarter inch foam, on TOP of the closed cell base. Then re-covered the seat. This last is a bit of a problem, since the perfect shape is now a quarter inch off along where the heater was, and I could feel it. Not bad, but not perfect. They did admit that the heaters were new and relatively rare, so they were not good at adjusting for them. Since my passenger had elected to take the day off, I enlisted the wife of another biker, who were there by appointment to have a custom Corbin made for their Triumph Speed Triple, to take another spin around the lot on the ST. She eagerly agreed, and I warned her about the sliding effect and that I was going to try hard accel/decel and braking. We proceeded, with me warning her before decel or braking, and she took it like a trouper. I had to work very hard to slam her into me, whereas previously any backing off the throttle would do it.

Declaring it a succes, and leaving both her and me with smiles on faces, I went to see the damage. They had one to three people working on the seat continuously for 2.5 hours. But they presented me with a bill for only $62.50, basically one standard shop hour for a minor seat repair. I consider that to be quite a bargain for the services provided.

All in all I found the Corbin ride-in experience to be efficient, effective, and enjoyable. The 1500 miles I've put on the seat since testify that the improvement was great. It's not as good as my ST11 seat, and they told me they were constrained in re-shaping the foam to the shape of the existing leather cover. They could have done a full custom job with new cover, but it would have been more time and much more money.

All in all, I'm happy with the seat and service. I understand their phone and email service is not on par with the ride-in, which is disappointing and needless. Maybe someday I can buy the business and turn it around, right after I win a lottery or two!

[Mellow]

Great Review... heck, when I win the Lotto I'll buy the company for ya.

[newhoupa]

Very much enjoyed your log / review:

Now, what about point no 1? What is it about the Aerostitch thats got you...?

phil

[Ken]

I would be interested to hear the point / counterpoint on the Aerostitch stuff in another thread STeve. I've read many good things about the 'stitch' and will be considering purchasing one next season. But me being me, I wouldn't consider this kind of investment without 'due diligence' first. Let the debate begin! :)

[CruisingDog]

Steve, do you have any piccies of the tie-wrap mod ? I have a Corbin seat and it definitely cruches you into the tank. I'd like to try out the tie-wrap trick first and then if that tdoesn't work, take it into to Corbin.

I currently have a nother mod which is not the best of things but it works. I jam some spacers under the front mounting bracke to raise it about 0.5".

[NewsMag]

What is it about the Aerostitch thats got you...?

Phil and Ken. If you want to hear a rant about Stitch, it's only fair you hear the VAST majority that love them, sleep in them, whatever. I propose one or both of you might start a new thread asking feedback about the product. Then you can see what most people think, and I can put in my 1.5 cents worth.

[NewsMag]

Steve, do you have any piccies of the tie-wrap mod ? I have a Corbin seat and it definitely cruches you into the tank. I'd like to try out the tie-wrap trick first and then if that tdoesn't work, take it into to Corbin.

I currently have a nother mod which is not the best of things but it works. I jam some spacers under the front mounting bracke to raise it about 0.5".

I can go do a photo this week. Perhaps a better description here would work. The forward seat adjuster, with weight on the top as I have from putting the Corbin tab on top, will tend on hitting bumps to pop out of the middle position (moving forwards a bit) and into the bottom position, scaring the crap out of the rider. I use a zip tie to hold the bottom of the seat adjuster to the rear of the bracket, preventing it from moving forward. While a lightweight tie would fit, there is a lot of stress and they break. So I use a heavy duty one, which must be snipped and replaced whenever I want to lift the tank for farkelage. I carry a few extras in the fairing pocket, and have lately left one extra in place but not snug, in case I need to do a quickie roadside maintenance.

Photos coming later this week...

[Louie Louie]

Thanks for the review. Also, thanks for teaching me the "Geza 30 second wrap" at WestocX.

[NewsMag]

Thanks for the review. Also, thanks for teaching me the "Geza 30 second wrap" at WestocX.

My pleasure. Hopefully you have an hour per day more riding time now!

[grogglefroth]

I too can recommend Corbin - but I'd only recommend a ride-in. :-)
I also had a great experience going in and custom fitted. Debatably your seat should not have been _that_ far off (there are definiately stories of consistency problems there!) but a ride in and ride testing before they finish your seat, definately doesn't suck.

The diner ain't half bad. I'd not go out of my way to visit the diner, but it sure beats hitting the Chevron in town for "lunch".

My prior comments about the corbinn are at
http://gigo.com/archives/Blog/corbin_motorcycle_seat.html

[NewsMag]

The diner ain't half bad. I'd not go out of my way to visit the diner, but it sure beats hitting the Chevron in town for "lunch".

If the diner is closed, try out the Ding-A-Ling restauraunt/diner across the street in the Hollister airport. It's quite famous in pilot circles, and quite good.

[NewsMag]

The zip tie prevents the seat adjuster from moving rearward and popping into the lower position. In the pic I have it in the middle position.

[ducman748]

Steve..glad you like the seat...I'm the one who gave you such a good deal on your original purchase..I must have priced it too low. Maybe we'll meet sometime.

[Keith R.]

I absolutely hated the stock seat on my 1100. Coming back from WeSTOC VI I was fighting back the tears after finding every possible way to sit except maybe side saddle or backwords, wasn't will to try that. The stock seat had to go. I Found one that someone posted for a friend on the LiST. Low miles, leather, and looked like new. First impression was how much it weighed. Seemed to be twice that of the stock one. It fit real nice and has to be one of the best looking seats I'd seen for the ST. But DAMN!!!! was it ever hard. So much like a horse saddle that I was looking for the stirups. My butt couldn't take more than 150 miles in that saddle. I turned around and sold it on the spot to another ST1100 owner for exsactly what I paid for it. In turn I bought a new Travelcade Stealth with duel gell inserts. This seat is just what I needed. After talking with many on this subject on verious rides. I've noticed that those who love the Corbin all seem thin with norrow asses as compared to those like me who are a little widder in the rear if you :D (Big Boned) :D know what I mean. Just something I've noticed maybe others have too.

Monday Im taking delivery of an 04' BMW GS Adventurer. It comes with the stock seat but on the bike at this time is a Corbin with dual heaters. The owner is about the same size as me and the seat feels really nice. Im hoping that it works for me as there are times the heated seat could be a good thing. The seat is like new as the bike itself only has 7500 miles on the clock. So selling the seat I don't think will be a real problem if it doesn't workout.

Steve, I've never used a heated seat. And since you've got one. Is this really a good thing or is it just another fancy farkle? With full gear on dressed for the cold does it really make a difference? Can you feel the heat through all the layers of riding gear?

[nurseBob]

Steve, I've never used a heated seat. And since you've got one. Is this really a good thing or is it just another fancy farkle? With full gear on dressed for the cold does it really make a difference? Can you feel the heat through all the layers of riding gear?
Keith,

I had heated seats in my BMW Z3; used them about 3 times in 3 years. Now I know there's a big difference to being inside vs. outside. But, honestly, when I'm cold here in N. Cal, it's not my butt, it's my hands and torso. If I can keep the upper body and hands warm, I seem to be Ok. So, when I get ready to buy my Russell (I have a "wider" butt as well, and like the feel of their seat), I can't see nearly doubling the price for the heated option.

Bob

[NewsMag]

Steve..glad you like the seat...I'm the one who gave you such a good deal on your original purchase..I must have priced it too low. Maybe we'll meet sometime.

Hmm. Did I mention what a good deal I got? :gs1: It was a good deal, and no, you didn't price it too low. :o: Especially if you count the added ride-in mod costs. :money1:

But should we meet, the beer is on me! :beer2:

[NewsMag]

Steve, I've never used a heated seat. And since you've got one. Is this really a good thing or is it just another fancy farkle? With full gear on dressed for the cold does it really make a difference? Can you feel the heat through all the layers of riding gear?

It's certainly another fancy farkle, and it CAN be a really good thing. As Ducman pointed out he made me a good deal, so the heating element was pretty much free to me.

Can you feel the heat through the layers and does it really make a difference?

Oh yeah. It's hotter than hell through full riding gear. :eek: With temps in the 40s, a shot now and then is nice. In the 30s or lower you can actually stand to leave it on for a while. I rode the ST1100 for a few Utah winters without heat, and the ST13 with heat makes it much more tempting to gear up and head out for some cold air head-clearing and a snack. :coffee1: :pie1: