USA and Euro Continental Headlight assembly [Archive]

Bahbay

10-03-2005, 02:40 AM

Greetings to all 2 wheel enthusiaSTs,

I have to replace my wife's (Gary Ann) headlight assembly due to both of us occupying the same space at the same time :cus: (urp).

Honda has the assembly back ordered so I inquired with David Silver in the UK.

Karl with DS asked if the assembly "dips to the left or to the right". I replied that since it was smashed, it was not possible to determine the diposity :confused:(?).

I checked the front of _my_ 1300 and STill couldn't detect any dipping going on.
Anyone know anything about left or right dip and the relative implications regarding the ordering of this assembly?

It is a bit pricy so I don't care to flub it.

Thanks and best wishes,

Bahbay

Burger

10-03-2005, 04:01 AM

Kennedy

10-03-2005, 04:04 AM

5:00 AM and I have learned some thing new all ready

dannyk

10-03-2005, 07:18 AM

By the end of the day you'll be so smart none of us will be able to communicate with you on your level :bow1: :bow1: :bow1: :biker:

sherob

10-03-2005, 07:59 AM

Burger

10-03-2005, 08:04 AM

Double What-a-Burger w/cheese and bacon for you! :)

Slurp... dribble... :chef3: http://www.dandmbr.co.uk/burger_jump_md_clr.gif :roll:

Killtimer

10-03-2005, 09:28 AM

I have to replace my wife's (Gary Ann) headlight assembly due to both of us occupying the same space at the same time :cus: (urp).

Bob....

It might be a good idea to stop trying to breed ST's. :eek: :D If you want a scooter that bad maybe check CycleTrader etc. ;)

Bahbay

10-03-2005, 09:47 AM

This has to be the fastest turnaround time for a question and response in list history (listory?).

Muchos gracias mi amigo,

Bahbay

Blue STreak

10-03-2005, 11:00 AM

Being the US, where you decided to follow the pattern set by a mad French emperor and drive on the wrong side of the road :) your headlamps surely dip to the right. Otherwise you would be dazzling oncoming traffic. It's an easy rule, headlamps dip to the side of the road you drive on.

Regards,

Are you sure? This sound backwards to me. As you say, the dipped beam is low, to prevent blinding oncoming traffic. But oncoming traffic is the OPPOSITE of the lane one drives in. I drive on the right, but oncoming traffic is to my left. So shouldn't my light dip to the left?

In any case, tell them you want the Continental Euro spec light. Should be marked E4. (That's the way I spec'd the lamp for my ST1100.)

George Radominski

10-03-2005, 11:17 AM

PanEuropean headlight uses 60/55W standard H4 light bulbs versus Honda’s custom “H4?” 45/45W for ST1300 in US. I would assume that EU headlights have different pattern than DOT ones. US still have a standard that about 10% of the low beam light needs to illuminate road signs resulting with some blinding of the upcoming traffic. This could be the reason why Honda decided to limit US headlights to 45/45W with their custom light bulb. In EU blinding of the upcoming traffic is considered to be of higher importance than illuminating street signs. This is likely a key reason that EU does not allow any cars with DOT headlights on their roads.

I have a personal bias towards EU standard and 60/55W wattage. If you opt for EU model make sure to pick right handed traffic model, not the british one.

If you decide to get EU model please let us know what was the cost and Honda part number.

Burger

10-03-2005, 11:19 AM

This is all to do with dip beam patterns, something that it appears is required in European law but, it seems, not in the USA. The point being if you're going to order a Euro spec headlamp assembly then it will have a dip pattern and you need to make sure you get the right one.

Basically, in Europe when headlights dip they do not produce a flat cut off in front of you (a straight line across the road). They are designed to throw the light further along the verge (your side of the road) to light up the edge, illuminate any signs and highlight any obstacles. Hence, the lights should dip to the side of the road you drive on. If the pattern were the other way round then you would be throwing light into the oncoming traffic.

This by the way is all achieved through the reflector and lens design and has nothing to do with the bulb that's fitted. That is unless you have Xenon headlamps and then it is the shutter in the lamp that produces the pattern.

As the USA drives on the right it is important that you order continental european headlamp assemblies, dipping to the right, and not those for the UK where we drive on the correct side of the road :)

Hope that makes sense.

Regards,

Putt

10-03-2005, 11:21 AM

-------------------snip-----------------

If you decide to get EU model please let us know what was the cost and Honda part number.

AND the difference in pattern...

Putt...

Burger

10-03-2005, 12:16 PM

Perhaps the following picture will help to illustrate what I am trying to put in words... this is for a vehicle driving on the right...

http://www.dandmbr.co.uk/106326.jpg

Regards,

George Radominski

10-03-2005, 01:52 PM

There are 2 aspects of beam pattern difference between EU and DOT standards:

1. EU asymmetrical versus "symmetrical" in DOT patterns as relates to driver’s side road illumination (left vs. right, = The Dip), see Dave's picture above.

2. EU has a very distinct line (asymmetrical) with minimized light above the line versus a DOT’s less distinct line – a fuzzy horizontal line where 10% of light goes above the line.

I agree that light bulb has nothing to do with a pattern but the power is different in US and EU for some reason.

Bora20

10-03-2005, 09:32 PM

You beat me to the pic Burger.

Now, about the price. I want a Euro-spec headlight.

Bahbay

10-04-2005, 10:45 PM

For those who requested pricing info on the Euro headlight Assembly...........

Are you sitting down?

289.97 British Pounds Sterling + VAT (17.5%) + S&H (?)
At $ 1.85USD to the BPS = $ 536.44 + $ 93.88 = $ 630.32

So $ 630USD w/o shipping

The reason I inquired at David Silver was the fact that Service Honda informed me that Honda has the HA on indefinite back order. The price through Service Honda was a far more " affordable " $ 333.75 . David Silver makes that look like a real deal......

So don't everyone rush out and order all at once.......

Maybe I should start figuring out how to reassemble the broken one, huh?

Thanks for the help of the list so far,

Bahbay

Bora20

10-04-2005, 10:51 PM

You don't have toe pay the VAT if it is being exported from teh UK to the US or Canada.

That is about what I thought for pricing though, about $500 USD for a new headlight is about right.

I wonder if you can just purchase a new reflector assembly instead of teh entire headlight. You can for cars, so that might be a cheaper option.

George Radominski

10-05-2005, 12:05 AM

Headlight lens and reflector is one glued assembly. I don’t believe you can order them separately.

Bahbay,
Headlights were always critical form me, and with age there are even more important. $500 is a lot, but soon this is going to be only 100gal of gas.

The good think about David Silver is that their shipping is just phenomenal. About a year ago I ordered ST radio on Monday and got it on Wednesday the same week.

I am thinking about ordering EU headlight but there is a potential risk that Honda has a different headlight mounts for EU and US.

Some years ago I bought VW Golf III EU headlights and fitting them to US WV Golf was a real pain. I hope Honda did not follow the VW approach. I guess the easiest way to find out is to do it.

Bora20

10-05-2005, 12:21 AM

I am thinking about ordering EU headlight but there is a potential risk that Honda has a different headlight mounts for EU and US.

Some years ago I bought VW Golf III EU headlights and fitting them to US WV Golf was a real pain. I hope Honda did not follow the VW approach. I guess the easiest way to find out is to do it.

I dont' think that the mounting will be different on the ST1300. The headlight lens and back assembly are silconed together, but can be taken apart. The reflector would be available seperately, but it is just a matter of finding it.

Teh new Golf 4 headlights bolt right in, if you would have bought the euro rad support for your Golf 3, they would have bolted right in as well.

I have done both vehicles before.

Bahbay

10-15-2005, 08:44 AM

We ordered the assembly from David Silver. They said 4 days for them to get it then 7-10 days to get it to us. We'll see............

323 pounds sterling = about $597USD :money1:

George Radominski

10-21-2005, 11:33 PM

Bahbay, please keep us inform on your progress with EU headlight.

Many months ago I replaced factory 45X45W bulbs with shimmed Osram H4 60/55W bulbs. From the get go I thought that the illumination pattern was different than Honda’s original: low beam had fuzzy demarcation line so I had to aim it lower, and high beam did not have sharp, a pencil like far reaching beam. Yesterday, while finishing valve adjustment, I replaced the Osrams with original Honda bulbs, what the difference! Low beam has sharp line so I can aim it higher and high beam is indeed a long distance beam.

I don’t know what is causing this undesirable illumination pattern with shimmed H4s. It could be either shimming H4 bulbs or Honda’s 45/45W bulb design is different that H4, without optical measurement I am at mercy of guesses. For me the Honda 45/45W OEM bulbs are my choice.

George.

Bora20

10-21-2005, 11:47 PM

The problem lies with the shimming of the headlight. They must be perfectly in position and placing a shim in front of the bulb, will move the filament location back so slightly, causing the light not to hit the correct location on the reflector.

I too want a Euro spec headlight assembly, but it is not tops on my list as I ride mostly in the day, for now.

George Radominski

10-22-2005, 01:58 PM

"Have you tried the OSRAM's without the shims? Many on this board don't use them" - No, I did not.

The H4’s upper tab is the only one, out of 3 H4 tabs, which can register H4 in the ST headlight. Unfortunately, H4’s upper tab is smaller than Honda’s bulb upper tab resulting in about 5 (4.7) degree potential placement error (rotation on axis). Assuming that low beam internal optical shield (a little metal cap inside the bulb) is registered to the centerline of H4 and Honda upper tab you can envision the following 3 scenarios:

1. Placing an H4 bulb with 5 degree clockwise error (3’ vertical in 30’ distance) will result in blinding upcoming traffic and shortening illumination on the right, this is definitely not good.
2. 5 degree counterclockwise placement error could have a potential benefit of the EU’s asymmetrical pattern if reflective optics would cooperate.
3. Aligning H4’s smaller tab in the middle of the Honda’s larger opening for tab could be tough.

Perhaps this is too much technical mumbling about a light bulb, but, how many people we need to put a right bulb in ST1300? Next time my plastic is off I could experiment with #2 or 3 or just spend the fortune on EU headlight to get it right.

George.

Redeye

10-25-2005, 12:39 PM

Just spotted this on Ebay-UK

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8009752736&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:UK:1

If anyone in the US wants to bid on it I'll do the honours of shipping to the States.

BC Rider

10-25-2005, 02:41 PM

I was advised by a lighting consultant (www.danielsternlighting.com) NOT to use the shims for the reasons outlined by Bora and George - ie. it shifts the bulb screwing up the optics.

Here is a link to site I was given detailing how to modify a Honda headlight to accept a standard H4 bulb. This is for an ST1100, but they used the same bulbs in that one as they use in the ST1300 - so all things being equal .....

http://dastern.torque.net/Mods/H4mod.html

I have not done this modification so don't provide any direct experience.

George Radominski

10-25-2005, 03:47 PM

Questions to Redeye, is this headlight from a UK (left handed traffic) PanEuropean?
George.

Killtimer

10-25-2005, 04:10 PM

The reason the shim was designed in the first place for the ST1100 was to compensate for the difference in filament placement between the Honda (Stanley) 45/45 and a typical H4 or 9003. I just went out and dug up an OEM bulb from the ST1300 and it looks like Honda's gone to Philips for a supplier. The OEM capsule is still a little shorter than the Philips Vision Plus I'm running which in turn is a little shorter than the Osrams I used to run and still have laying around. Just to confuse the issue, the OEM Philips (ST1300) and the OEM Stanley (ST1100) appear visually to have a very slight difference in base to filament distance. Nothing better to do and needing to install a new Vision Plus on one side, I swapped back and forth between both OEM bulbs, an Osram 60/55 and a Philips 100/60 on one side and left the un-shimmed Vision Plus in the other side. I then repeated the same exercise with a shimmed Vision Plus (60/55). The very un-scientific method used was to visually evaluate the light pattern and intensity against a garage door ~15' away in my darkened garage. Results? I'll stick with the Vision Plus....... but I re-installed my shims. YLIMV etc.

Redeye

10-25-2005, 05:06 PM

Questions to Redeye, is this headlight from a UK (left handed traffic) PanEuropean?
George.
I would presume it is as the seller is in the UK.

This ones in France so should be OK for the States

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pan-European-ST1300-phare-europeen-European-Headlight_W0QQitemZ4584691744QQcategoryZ117466QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem

Bora20

10-25-2005, 08:30 PM

I would presume it is as the seller is in the UK.

This ones in France so should be OK for the States

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pan-European-ST1300-phare-europeen-European-Headlight_W0QQitemZ4584691744QQcategoryZ117466QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem

I just posted questions to both sellers. We will see what they say.

Blue STreak

10-25-2005, 10:06 PM

The reason the shim was designed in the first place for the ST1100 was to compensate for the difference in filament placement between the Honda (Stanley) 45/45 and a typical H4 or 9003.

Well, not really.

The shim was developed to deal with the positional differences in the three tabs between the OEM bulb and H4s. The actual difference in filament position is far greater than the thickness of the shim.

A few years ago an STOC list member worked with a company that made HID conversions for H4 bulbs. Together they experimented with various spacer thicknesses to get an H4 bulb / H4 HID replacement in the optimum position relative to the reflector. I don't remember the exact dimensions, but it was somewhere between 1/8 and 1/4 inch thick. The stamped sheetmetal spacers available don't come close.

On an ST1100, which uses the same bulb as the 1300, using an H4 without a shim and without modifying the headlight shell results in the aim of the bulb being terribly off. Adjusting the vertical position of the headlight helps, but not enough.

Using an H4 with the shims is better, but the incorrect filament placement means you can't accurately adjust the headlight for both high and low beams. With the low beams adjusted properly, the high beams are way too high. Adjust for the high beam, and the low beam provides nowhere near enough light on the road.

I replaced my ST1100 light with the E4 continental headlight and standard H4s. It is far better than the U.S. headlight with high power H4s and the shims. The beam pattern is more even, the overall light output seems brighter, and I don't need to constantly adjust between high and low beams.

If you ride at night a lot, the E4 headlight may be the best farkle you can do.

George Radominski

10-25-2005, 11:00 PM

I replaced my ST1100 light with the E4 continental headlight and standard H4s.
Bob.
Did you have any problem fitting E4 headlight to your ST1100?
George.

Killtimer

10-25-2005, 11:23 PM

The shim was developed to deal with the positional differences in the three tabs between the OEM bulb and H4s. The actual difference in filament position is far greater than the thickness of the shim.

I suppose that's possible. I was using the original bent nail H4 system when it was explained to me by one of the old timers that the shims did a better job of focusing due to the thickness. Chicken/Egg I guess. :shrug2:

Blue STreak

10-28-2005, 03:37 PM

Bob.
Did you have any problem fitting E4 headlight to your ST1100?
George.

No, it's the exact same size and shape, with exactly the same mounting points. The fairing is the same on US and Euro bikes, so it's not surprising the headlight fits the same way.

It has a different lens pattern, a different reflector assembly, and takes H4 bulbs without adapters, and it fits perfectly.

Blue STreak

10-28-2005, 03:38 PM

I suppose that's possible. I was using the original bent nail H4 system when it was explained to me by one of the old timers that the shims did a better job of focusing due to the thickness. Chicken/Egg I guess. :shrug2:

A better job, yes. An ideal job, no. Stack 3 or 4 adapters together and it will get even better (although you might have problems getting the spring clip to close).