Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?

[STPaulK]

Your argument is full of generalizations (e.g., everyone) and assumptions (e.g., buying aftermarket pipes to feed egos) that reveals personal bias while limiting objectivity. Sure, generalizations make things easier, but valuable information is lost.

LOL, I don't think it's a stretch to make these generalizations about why we like to run noisier than stock pipes. There isn't much to be objective about when the reasons people throw on aftermarket pipes are straightforward. Besides sound, performance and looks (all for the personal satisfaction and ego), what else is there? Trying to analyze beyond those reasons seems to be a way to avoid the obvious problem that groups like the AMA accept as a threat to motorcycling. Most non-motorcyclists do not like loud pipes and do not accept safety as a valid argument for their use.

Whether they are safe or not is really a moot point down the road anyway. Once the EPA starts putting teeth into their laws dealing with mods to any part of the emissions, it's game over.

[tommyboy]

Loud pipes are not only illegal, they are annoying. What really bothers folks is the annoyance, and the flippant attitude by those who have loud pipes claiming they have them as a safety feature when they just want to sound "cool." It is not just H-Ds, but sportbikes as well. You can put on headlight modulators or run with your high beams on all day if you want to be seen.

[S2000-Dave]

I'm inclined to agree with Paul, about the EPA getting involved in my rights. I was given a ticket for "altered suspension" back in the mid 70's in Denver for having "air shocks" on my car. Their argument was that "any device" that changed the original suspension design altered it.
I don't like those hugely loud pipes that (not to offend) those HD guys put on their bikes. I had a friend that had an HD and he had straight pipes on it!! You could hear the guy 2 miles away. That said, I do believe that louder pipes do save lives. Think about it, your sitting at a stop sign and here rolls up the punk that enjoys his music at the loudest level he can crank it up to. It gets your attention, right?
My Road Star 1700cc, is loud enough stock. I won't be putting louder pipes on, it doesn't need it. But I really think that the ST- COULD, not SHOULD be louder. I think it makes sense especially in heavy traffic, just my.02

[Kempo-STer]

. Acknowledging that some exhaust noise may increase a rider's presence on the road doesn't seem unrealistic or counterintuitive to me.

Exactly what i am trying to say and then I am going to bow out of this one..

The question was do they save lives...NOTHING ELSE..Not how you feel about them...are they illegal, annoying, etc...

All I am trying to do is answer that question..If you are heard, there is a good chance you are seen..

I don't like them myself but you can't deny somewhere at some time common sense says that someone heard a pipe that made them look and SEE a bike that they would have otherwise missed..

Now if you guys want to post about how I "feel" about loud pipes etc I am there but I have said everything I could say that I think for once makes sense and coming from me that is usually not the case:p:

Kempo OUT..

[Mellow]

Exactly what i am trying to say and then I am going to bow out of this one..

The question was do they save lives...NOTHING ELSE..Not how you feel about them...are they illegal, annoying, etc...

All I am trying to do is answer that question..If you are heard, there is a good chance you are seen..

I don't like them myself but you can't deny somewhere at some time common sense says that someone heard a pipe that made them look and SEE a bike that they would have otherwise missed..

Now if you guys want to post about how I "feel" about loud pipes etc I am there but I have said everything I could say that I think for once makes sense and coming from me that is usually not the case:p:

Kempo OUT..

Typical response from a drunk.. :nuts1: :nanner1:

[georgeorge]

Typical response from a drunk.. :nuts1: :nanner1:


That's what I'm talkin' bout!!! I wanna see a fight at FL-STOC!!! I'm smart, I don't come right out and say it! I just pop a beer and blend!

[S2000-Dave]

Not to jack this thread,,but KempoSTer who do you train with?

[georgeorge]

Not to jack this thread,,but KempoSTer who do you train with?

Not sure if this helps, Dave, but here's his website: http://ctkempoandfitness.com/

[tommyboy]

This is too funny!

"I'm not an Alcoholic, I'm a Drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings.":D

[kingprawnokay]

There isn't much to be objective about when the reasons people throw on aftermarket pipes are straightforward. Besides sound, performance and looks (all for the personal satisfaction and ego), what else is there?

You forgot to mention cost as a potential reason to buy aftermarket pipes. Read the original post. In 2005, a pair of aluminum TB's were $300 less than one stock Honda pipe. I was a student at the time so $300 was (still is) a lot of money. Sure, I liked the idea of losing 16 lbs without dieting so I guess you can file that one under "performance". The main reason, however, for switching to a louder pipe was cost.

Whether they are safe or not is really a moot point down the road anyway. Once the EPA starts putting teeth into their laws dealing with mods to any part of the emissions, it's game over.

My TB's aren't over the legal noise limit in CA and lean running fuel injected motorcycles would pass emissions here without exhaust pipes. Also, don't people buy aftermarket cans in Europe? I'm pretty sure they do and the emission regulations are more strict.

Think of safety as a toolbox. In the toolbox we have wearing protective gear, riding defensively, increasing visibility, and possibly increasing audibility (feel free to add more). My hypothesis is that all of the tools in the toolbox increase safety to some degree. Who knows what tool will work best in any given situation? I wouldn't want to find myself in a situation on the road without the right tool.

One difference between our arguments is that I don't really care why people buy aftermarket cans (or why they say they do) and try not to base arguments on assumptions about motivation. I made my choice to buy louder pipes for a reason that wasn't on your list which demonstrates the flaw in generalizations. Additionally, motivation to buy louder pipes is a single factor that doesn't appear independently affect the outcome that they may increase safety.

This thread was an attempt to discuss at the potential safety benefits of louder pipes, but it really has turned into an exercise in preconceptions and conclusion jumping. I do not appreciate straight pipes, nor do I promote them. I'm suggesting that louder (not the loudest) pipes might be a good idea.

The essential difference between the two arguments at this point appears to be that one side is posing a question that, as of yet, has no definitive, documented answer and the other side claims to have the answer based on personal preference.

Sorry for repeating myself so much. It just seems that what I (and others) are saying is being read but not understood.

[S2000-Dave]

Thank you. I've been studying Kempo since I was 13. Studied with Sensi Wayne Welsh, Hanshi-Ron Carlson (mostly) Si Fu Al Decostas (years ago, just had a 70's reunion) Hips are'nt what they were. Hard to do some of the kicks. Love Kempo !

[kwslhs]

Gimme a break.

One litmus test of whether something is a good thing is to ask "what if everyone did this?"

Loud pipes are predominantly about image. Look at the "More Thunder!" marketing aspect - they sell the feature that appeals the most.

Everyone with loud pipes would be an attrocity. There's a reason mufflers were invented. Its called Noise Pollution.

Furthermore, loud pipes are BAD FOR MOTORCYCLING. They generate bad publicity, bad image, bad reputation and clearly lead to preventative measures by way of ordinances from those who don't ride. They hurt the hobby, sport, lifestyle - whatever you claim to participate in as a motorcyclist.

This doesn't preclude the possibility that someone has benefitted from being on a cycle with obnoxiously loud pipes. That doesn't make it a good thing. Just as there are those who escaped additional injuries by NOT wearing a seat belt. You judge by the exception rather than the rule and you get poor analysis.

Why not bright-light every car in front of you? They will surely have better awareness of your presence. Oh - that would be stupid. I forgot. My bad.

Serving up a pile of dung, spraying perfume on it and calling it desert here in my book.

[SKS]

Gimme a break.

One litmus test of whether something is a good thing is to ask "what if everyone did this?"

Loud pipes are predominantly about image. Look at the "More Thunder!" marketing aspect - they sell the feature that appeals the most.

Everyone with loud pipes would be an attrocity. There's a reason mufflers were invented. Its called Noise Pollution.

Furthermore, loud pipes are BAD FOR MOTORCYCLING. They generate bad publicity, bad image, bad reputation and clearly lead to preventative measures by way of ordinances from those who don't ride. They hurt the hobby, sport, lifestyle - whatever you claim to participate in as a motorcyclist.

This doesn't preclude the possibility that someone has benefitted from being on a cycle with obnoxiously loud pipes. That doesn't make it a good thing. Just as there are those who escaped additional injuries by NOT wearing a seat belt. You judge by the exception rather than the rule and you get poor analysis.

Why not bright-light every car in front of you? They will surely have better awareness of your presence. Oh - that would be stupid. I forgot. My bad.

Serving up a pile of dung, spraying perfume on it and calling it desert here in my book.

Here Here !!

[kingprawnokay]

Gimme a break.

One litmus test of whether something is a good thing is to ask "what if everyone did this?"

Loud pipes are predominantly about image. Look at the "More Thunder!" marketing aspect - they sell the feature that appeals the most.

Everyone with loud pipes would be an attrocity. There's a reason mufflers were invented. Its called Noise Pollution.

Furthermore, loud pipes are BAD FOR MOTORCYCLING. They generate bad publicity, bad image, bad reputation and clearly lead to preventative measures by way of ordinances from those who don't ride. They hurt the hobby, sport, lifestyle - whatever you claim to participate in as a motorcyclist.

This doesn't preclude the possibility that someone has benefitted from being on a cycle with obnoxiously loud pipes. That doesn't make it a good thing. Just as there are those who escaped additional injuries by NOT wearing a seat belt. You judge by the exception rather than the rule and you get poor analysis.

Why not bright-light every car in front of you? They will surely have better awareness of your presence. Oh - that would be stupid. I forgot. My bad.

Serving up a pile of dung, spraying perfume on it and calling it desert here in my book.

Once again, I'm certainly not arguing for obscenely thunderous pipes.

Why do we keep returning to the extreme "obnoxiously loud pipes" scenario? Give me a break. I guess its easier to think in black and white, but what about the gray? It's my fault. I should have operationally defined "loud" in the original post. If you want someone to see something sometimes you need to tell them it's there. There is an infinite band of noise levels between inaudible and painful. Stretch your minds beyond bias, bad experience and the two extremes.

As far as the EPA goes, I'm all for putting cats in aftermarket pipes. I'm sure that's what the aftermarket manufacturers will do. They won't stop making pipes. Some manufacturers like Termignoni and Akrapovic already supply OEM pipes with cats. There. EPA issue solved.

[Kempo-STer]

Gimme a break.

One litmus test of whether something is a good thing is to ask "what if everyone did this?"

Loud pipes are predominantly about image. Look at the "More Thunder!" marketing aspect - they sell the feature that appeals the most.

Everyone with loud pipes would be an attrocity. There's a reason mufflers were invented. Its called Noise Pollution.

Furthermore, loud pipes are BAD FOR MOTORCYCLING. They generate bad publicity, bad image, bad reputation and clearly lead to preventative measures by way of ordinances from those who don't ride. They hurt the hobby, sport, lifestyle - whatever you claim to participate in as a motorcyclist.

This doesn't preclude the possibility that someone has benefitted from being on a cycle with obnoxiously loud pipes. That doesn't make it a good thing. Just as there are those who escaped additional injuries by NOT wearing a seat belt. You judge by the exception rather than the rule and you get poor analysis.

Why not bright-light every car in front of you? They will surely have better awareness of your presence. Oh - that would be stupid. I forgot. My bad.

Serving up a pile of dung, spraying perfume on it and calling it desert here in my book.


You're MISSING THE POINT OF THE QUESTION!!!

Don't say "gimme a break..."

BTW I agree with everything you say in your post..I really do!

However, my stand and my point in my post over the last couple of days it that they SAVE lives..I dare you to answer that question!!
Which you have not done...
And you're arguement about light in someones eyes is not the same...
BLINDING someone with high beams (and I can can do it for that matter with my PIAA's) is not the same as having loud pipes..Yes you can lose your hearing over time however they will not MAKE YOU (a car driver in the vicinity) deaf by riding by..etc..
so..read my points, open your mind and ANSWER THE QUESTION without editorializing...That what Kevin and I are trying to say..

BTW Dave..
A Kenpo/Kempo bow your way..I've got 20 years in the art (although I am burning out big time)..
I study under Tom Ingargialo in Long Island and Prof. Kimo Ferriera from Hawaii (who awarded me with my 3rd Dan last summer)..Do a search on 3rd dgree black belt here...I had some cool dignitaries at my test)

[Bones]

Kempo, my friend, I don't know if you're still tuned in but if you look at the poll options you'll see one includes the word "angry" so it wasn't simply a matter of yes or no.

---------

If we want to frame the argument around science, let's start with two scientific studies about motorcycles and accidents. The Hurt Report (summary of findings) LINKY (http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html) and the Health Research Council study in New Zealand LINKY (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/328/7444/857?eaf). You can read both report summaries in the next 10 minutes or so.

Among their findings, both reports find substantial reductions in accident rates for riders who are visually conspicuous. I'm not aware of any scientific studies related to loud pipes as a safety measure, and would be glad to read any that someone can point us to.

The Hurt Report concluded that motorcyclists were hit from the rear in 3% of accidents. Since motorists are best able to hear a bike equipped with loud pipes from the rear, where the sound pressure is directed, loud pipes may be helpful in reducing 3% of accidents or perhaps a bit more in situations where the sound can bounce off stationary objects. Loud pipes will be of little value, however, in the 77% of accidents that Hurt reported occur from the front (from the 11:00 to 1:00 clock points) since they point away from oncoming traffic.

Will being louder make you more conspicuous? Supporters will say "yes" and the argument is not counterintuitive. However, it's not simply a matter of yes or no, it's a matter of degree. How much louder do you have to be to be safer, and how much safer will you be? I'd love to see some science to help explain that.

For the moment, put aside the damage to everyone in our hobby/sport/passion/preferred mode of tranport that is inflicted by a few ridiculously loud pipes. Forget that noisy motorcycles are the reason why all motorcycles are getting banned outright on private property (I can't ride my motorcycle in the developments where my mother and my favorite aunt live) and are increasingly threatened in public places. For now, just consider the issue of safety.

People who run loud pipes for safety while ingoring visual conspicuousness make it clear how little safety truly matters to them.

[kwslhs]

"extreme "obnoxiously loud pipes" " is not my point at all - if you're being heard inside a nearby closed car ... you've jumped the shark.

Your gray area ends at my eardrums.

Your gray area might disturb my children in their beds.

Making something intentionally MORE audible for your own benefit at the expense of others comfort and peace is only an acceptable compromise in your book - not mine. Not that gray an area at all.

"point in my post over the last couple of days it that they SAVE lives..I dare you to answer that question!!"

Sorry. I fail to see an interrogatory statement to answer there.

The valid comparison of bright lights to loud pipes is that if you achieve greater personal safety by virtue of inconveniencing others then where is the line drawn? The truth is you are drawing the line where you damn well please and rationalize it to your own means.

If your position (which apparently needs a some OTHER counter-point to negate?) is that loud pipes save lives and should therefore be socially acceptable forms of noise pollution - it still comes down to some very basic things.

As I already mentioned, What If Everyone Does This. Are we better off? Of course not. Too silly a notion to waste typing on.

What loud pipe advocates espouse - by definition - is using their noise-making ability to disturb others in the name of increased personal safety.

This is predicated upon being LOUDER than other vehicles in one's proximity because if everyone did it, the ambiant noise level takes away one's distinction.

Lets assume for a moment this logic is acceptable.

How else could we use this methodology to both improve our personal safety AND disturb others?

Ooh! I know ... parking lots! Gawd I HATE those. People walking everywhere, cars backing up. I'm going to rig my car horn to blow non-stop the whole time I'm in a parking lot. Guarantee ya safety will go up - and that IS all that matters right? Irritated people be damned. They'll get over it.

Those movie theaters sure are dark - especially right when you walk in from the outside. And I *HATE* colliding with other people trying to find my seat. What say we shout "WALKING!!!!" on the way to our seat so others will know we're in motion and not collide with us?

These examples are no more ridiculous to me than some clod who thinks his personal safety matters more than my comfort while I am otherwise not threatening him.

This big "do they save lives?" question that you dare someone to answer is a red herring.

A bullwhip can "save lives" if you use it pulling someone out of quicksand.

It can also be a weapon if you lash someone's back with it.

Do bullwhips save lives? The premise is silly - just like "Do loud pipes save lives?"

Bobby pins save lives when you are McGuyver.

[kingprawnokay]

Kempo, my friend, I don't know if you're still tuned in but if you look at the poll options you'll see one includes the word "angry" so it wasn't simply a matter of yes or no.

Absolutely right. I tried to allow for extreme opposing views in the poll. I was hoping, however, that the discussion would evolve by adding the "louder than stock" option. Instead it has devolved into discussing outliers (e.g., the ST's 'stealth' pipes, 110dB straight pipes).
---------

If we want to frame the argument around science, let's start with two scientific studies about motorcycles and accidents. The Hurt Report (summary of findings) LINKY (http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html) and the Health Research Council study in New Zealand LINKY (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/328/7444/857?eaf). You can read both report summaries in the next 10 minutes or so.

Among their findings, both reports find substantial reductions in accident rates for riders who are visually conspicuous. I'm not aware of any scientific studies related to loud pipes as a safety measure, and would be glad to read any that someone can point us to.

Again, a lack of evidence for the hypothesis does not make the null hypothesis true. It just means more investigation is needed.

The Hurt Report concluded that motorcyclists were hit from the rear in 3% of accidents. Since motorists are best able to hear a bike equipped with loud pipes from the rear, where the sound pressure is directed, loud pipes may be helpful in reducing 3% of accidents or perhaps a bit more in situations where the sound can bounce off stationary objects. Loud pipes will be of little value, however, in the 77% of accidents that Hurt reported occur from the front (from the 11:00 to 1:00 clock points) since they point away from oncoming traffic.

This isn't necessarily true. You've just superimposed statistics from one study into your understanding of a particular scenario.

Will being louder make you more conspicuous? Supporters will say "yes" and the argument is not counterintuitive. However, it's not simply a matter of yes or no, it's a matter of degree. How much louder do you have to be to be safer, and how much safer will you be? I'd love to see some science to help explain that.

I said the same thing in an earlier post. Bravo!

For the moment, put aside the damage to everyone in our hobby/sport/passion/preferred mode of tranport that is inflicted by a few ridiculously loud pipes. Forget that noisy motorcycles are the reason why all motorcycles are getting banned outright on private property (I can't ride my motorcycle in the developments where my mother and my favorite aunt live) and are increasingly threatened in public places. For now, just consider the issue of safety.

Let's try to stop perseverating on the outliers who run the loudest pipes and generate the bad press.

People who run loud pipes for safety while ingoring visual conspicuousness make it clear how little safety truly matters to them.

I don't recall this being suggested.

[kingprawnokay]

KWSLHS,

You're all over the place, man. I like it, but it's confusing. I never know what your going to say next. One second its movie theatres and the next second its bullwhips.

Exhaust noise. We're talking about motorcycle exhaust noise.

Do you guys think we could make it to 1000 posts?

[Rob Hephner]

Here....

271!

[kingprawnokay]

Polls
You've got questions. We've got answers?

[tommyboy]

Don't forget, as of 2006 removing the stock pipes in California is against the law. That is why no dealer will touch your pipes ($35,000 fine per instance).
My real question, though, is whether or not the airplane will take off on the treadmill if it has really loud obnoxious pipes installed?:BDH:

[Rob Hephner]

I just did some testing with Nissan of America on Cabin Noise.

They are looking to reduce interior levels by another 10dB. The reason is to get more out of the entertainment system without increasing the power and this weight. (Basically they are comparing options.)

One of the companies has a noise canceling technology and specifically called out loud motorcycles. When emergency vehicles were brought up they hemmed and hawed about options.

From there things kinda went everywhere. I waited until things settled a little and ran a little math to show that currently ALL of their vehicles suppressed both emergency vehicles and motorcycle to a non-discernable level up to 25 feet. (That of course is without the radio on...)

My point is this. The argument about loud pipes can make all the noise it wants, but in the very near future even the loudest of pipes will not penetrate vehicle cabins.

On the Emergency vehicle side look for electronic solutions to start showing up soon. Anything from in-vehicle detectors, cell systems warnings and a ton of other options.

Just because you are making a lot of noise, does not mean anyone will hear you....

[kingprawnokay]

Rob,

You raise a good point. In fact, this is the first new point in several (dozen?) posts. The effect of pipe loudness on motorcycle safety shouldn't be pursued if no one will be able to hear their surroundings.

It is a little scary that in a few years, drivers won't hear the screams of the pedestrian they just backed over.

I recently witnessed an older gentlemen in a new Camry back into and cause damage to a mid-90's Civic. He drove off even as the owner of the car and I yelled and chased after him. From safe inside his cocoon, I really don't think he new anything had happened.

[Rob Hephner]

It is a little scary that in a few years, drivers won't hear the screams of the pedestrian they just backed over.




It will be law soon that SUV's have an internal back-up warning system (video or sonar.)

Why you ask?

Because parents keep backing over and killing their children.

[kingprawnokay]

If the SUV's had louder pipes...

[Bones]

Let's try to stop perseverating on the outliers who run the loudest pipes and generate the bad press.


Why? They're the ones who generate the bad press, who give the rest of us a bad rap just because we're on two wheels, who minimize any support from the non-motorcycling public for your contention that louder than stock promotes safety. Calling them "outliers" implies that they are statistically insignificant. That is not the case. Their behavior is having a disproportionate impact.

I'm certain someone on the other side of the fence will want the last word, so have at it.

How 'bout those Red Sox!

[Mark]

A bit ironic that people who want loud pipes are also all about 'save your hearing'.

If you really want to save hearing you'll put back on the quiet pipes.

Mark

[04ST1300TX]

Loud pipes sound great but in fact add NO SAFETY VALUE WHAT SO EVER! Your best best it to be VISIBLE! Change what you wear and where you ride (never beside a car, always ride forward of the driver in a car near you) and you'll be safer.

The average driver has too many distractions inside their car to hear you. Loud radios, kids, tv's, cell phones etc etc.
How many times (for those that have been involved in accidents) do you hear the other driver say "Well, I didn't ever hear that guy!"? NEVER! It's always always "I didn't see him.".

Honestly I don't know where "The loud pipes save lives." mentality came from. Maybe the Harley biker set or pipe manufacturers.... personally I think its just crazy talk.

That being said, don't get me wrong I LOVE the sound of a bike with an aftermarket pipe. I had a set of Yosh RS3's on my SV1000S that would rattle things in my house when I left on a ride, so I can only imagine what my neighbors thought.
After I bought the ST and had to constantly rev at stop lights to see if the bike was still on, I entertained getting pipes. Then I went on a ride and it was so nice being out in the middle of nowhere, not scaring the crap out of cows as I passed.
Loud pipes on cars (Think the "Slow and the Curious" crew like the kid in my neighborhood that flies up and down the street at 2am with those loud assed pipes on his honda civic... like he got any performance benfit out of it.) and bikes is a real waste.

Call me a convert but I wont have loud pipes again.

[Larrypv]

Yes, loud pipes do get attention and thereby may save lives, but it also helps me locate the S.O....motorcyclist that I would like to run off the road. I wonder if that has ever happened.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned as I have not read this entire thread, but while bright lights and/or headlight modulators in their quest for visibility may irritate some on the road, at least they do not affect people in the entire surrounding area, giving that many more people a bad impression of motorcylist....and they can be turned off.

[Kempo-STer]

Yes, loud pipes do get attention and thereby may save lives, but it also helps me locate the S.O....motorcyclist that I would like to run off the road. I wonder if that has ever happened.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned as I have not read this entire thread, but while bright lights and/or headlight modulators in their quest for visibility may irritate some on the road, at least they do not affect people in the entire surrounding area, giving that many more people a bad impression of motorcylist....and they can be turned off.

More or less what I have been saying...

What we got here within this thread are 2 questions..

1. Do they save lives.. (which is the title of the thread and what I have attemting to address)

and

2. What is your opinion/feelings about them..(which I have not) really 2 very different things IMO

[Larrypv]

Maybe, for safety sake, everyone on the road should continuously blare their horns. No matter what I ride/drive, I have as much right to "safety as any biker with loud pipes.

[Mellow]

Bascially, we can't possibly answer this question because none of us really know.. we have some suspicions and some opinions but no real facts.

So.. the whole thread is a moot point.. LOL

[kingprawnokay]

A bit ironic that people who want loud pipes are also all about 'save your hearing'.

If you really want to save hearing you'll put back on the quiet pipes.

Mark

The TB's are louder than stock but not obnoxiously loud. They don't set off alarms or wake neighbors. I've said it before, I need to think about listening for the TB's with my 33 dB reducing earplugs at 80-90mph on the highway. The only time I hear them is when accelerating and even then they can not be compared to straight cut Harley pipes. The loudness level is easily controlled by the right hand. My neighbors have never complained in 3 cities and I've received many compliments on the sound of the TB's. I guess someone once made loud pipes for the 1100 but no one currently makes loud pipes for the 1300.

Bones,

I do think people who run straight pipes are statistically insignificant in number. They will always exist regardless of legality and they will always disproportionately shape the opinion people have of bikers in general. Many sub-populations shape views. People like to generalize. It makes understanding the world easier. In my experience in SNF's and Hospitals, the geriatric population tend (see, now I'm generalizing) to see all bikers through the stereotype of the Hell's Angels. Are all bikers Hell's Angels? No. Are all bikers stunters (another group that pisses people off)? No. That's why I feel it's futile or counterproductive to focus on the sub-populations. Also, as you mentioned, there are more interesting questions, "Do loud pipes save lives?" started the discussion followed by "If so, what is the ideal loudness level to improve safety?". As Mellow stated, we don't yet know the answer.

You may see it as an attempt to have the last word, but I see it as keeping the discussion going. This is an interesting topic that will remain a point of contention in the motorcycling community. A little research could go a long way toward improving motorcycle safety and reducing noise pollution.

[STPaulK]

I do think people who run straight pipes are statistically insignificant in number.

Compared to what distribution? All makes and models of bikes in the world? The US only? Maybe so. But sit at a roadside cafe anywhere along the Mississppi river on a nice warm Sunday afternoon in the upper midwest and I can assure you that you'll no longer view them as "statistically insignificant". Even if it's only 1 out of 20 bikes running those pipes, it's probably one every 30 seconds since there is a never ending stream of cruisers on those days. BTW, this is where even the milder sounding pipes (what you would call not obnoxious) starts getting on your nerves as the louder-than-baseline noise never ends.

At this point I have said my piece. Peace...Out. ;)

[Mark]

Ditto Paul.

Phoenix and the small towns surrounding are absolutely full of straight or extremely obnoxiously loud pipes on cruisers.

All bikes with loud pipes are causing issues for all other motorcycles owners.

Mrk

[Papa]

No. They're annoying.

[st11ray]

I see the same thing that Paul sees in MN here on the Blue Ridge Parkway in NC. You go up for a nice quiet afternoon on a Sunday and all you can hear are loud motorcycles. Very annoying!

[STingray]

All bikes with loud pipes are causing issues for all other motorcycles owners.

Mrk

A shame, ain't it?

The A.M.A. has, for a few years now promoted one of their bumper stickers:
"Loud pipes lose rights"

What's a shame too, is that LEOs are hesitant to enforce the laws already on the books regarding loud exhaust (cars and bikes). 82dB is the legal limit, IIRC.

[kingprawnokay]

This is CA Vehicle Code. It's a little different than stated in previous posts. The reason Leo's don't enforce noise regulations may be because its not easy to do. Read CA Vehicle Code 23130 Section B below. What equipment do Highway Patrol have at their disposal to effectively measure, record and cite people who are over the noise limit? Noise cases don't stick because the H.P. usually can't provide evidence.

CA Vehicle Code:

23130:
(a) No person shall operate a motor vehicle under any condition of grade, load, acceleration, or deceleration in such a manner as to exceed the following noise limit for the category of motor vehicle within the speed limits specified in this section:

(2) Any motorcycle other than a motor-driven cycle at a speed limit of 45 or less..... 82 dbA. Any motorcycle other than a motor-driven cycle at a speed limit of 45 or more..... 86 dbA.

(b) The noise limits established by this section shall be based on a distance of 50 feet from the center of the lane of travel within the speed limit specified in this section. The Department of the California Highway Patrol may provide for measuring at distances other than 50 feet from the center of the lane of travel. In such a case, the measurement shall be corrected so as to provide for measurements equivalent to the noise limit established by this section measured at 50 feet.

23130.5:
(a) The noise limits, within a speed zone of 35 miles per hour or less on level streets, or streets with a grade not exceeding plus or minus 1 percent, shall be:
(2) Any motorcycle other than a motor-driven cycle..... 77 dbA

27150.8:
The manufacturers of motorcycles and motorcycle accessories shall certify to the department that the exhaust system is in compliance with the standards and regulations adopted by the commissioner.

27200:
(a) The Department of Motor Vehicles shall not register on a dealer's report of sale a new motor vehicle which produces a maximum noise exceeding the applicable noise limit at a distance of 50 feet from the centerline of travel under test procedures established by the Department of the California Highway Patrol.

27201:
For the purposes of Section 27200, the noise limit of 92 dbA shall apply to any motorcycle manufactured before 1970.

27202:
For the purposes of Section 27200, the following noise limits shall apply to any motorcycle, other than a motor-driven cycle, manufactured:
(1) After 1969, and before 1973..... 88 dbA
(2) After 1972, and before 1975..... 86 dbA
(3) After 1974, and before 1986..... 83 dbA
(4) After 1985..... 80 dbA

[tommyboy]

They don't need the California Vehicle Code, all the LEOs need is their eyes. If the don't see the EPA label on the exhaust pipe it is illegal. See a previous thread about Anaheim, CA police enforcing noise laws against a bunch of H-D riders because of loud pipes. Even defense attorneys agree that while noise meters can be miscalibrated, there is no real defense against the absense of the EPA label.

[STingray]

SO, it sounds like HD/other riders will be looking for fake EPA labels just like they buy those fake DOT stickers for their fake helmets, eh? :rolleyes:

[kingprawnokay]

They don't need the California Vehicle Code, all the LEOs need is their eyes. If the don't see the EPA label on the exhaust pipe it is illegal. See a previous thread about Anaheim, CA police enforcing noise laws against a bunch of H-D riders because of loud pipes. Even defense attorneys agree that while noise meters can be miscalibrated, there is no real defense against the absense of the EPA label.

Your right. There is no defense, if the charge is emission related. This is true of every city and state in the U.S. since there are currently no legal aftermarket exhaust systems on the market.

But we're slightly changing the subject. The lack of an EPA label doesn't prove a noise violation. Conversely, a noise violation may be incurred by legal EPA stamped pipes. The noise from my Z1000 was intense and likely illegal above 10,000 rpm. Most sport bikes with stock exhaust can easily be in violation of the law if the rpm's are high enough.

Enforcing a law that, oh, say, 75% of the motorcycling community breaks isn't easy and the resources are probably better directed elsewhere.

[Rob Hephner]

But we're slightly changing the subject. The lack of an EPA label doesn't prove a noise violation. Conversely, a noise violation may be incurred by legal EPA stamped pipes. The noise from my Z1000 was intense and likely illegal above 10,000 rpm. Most sport bikes with stock exhaust can easily be in violation of the law if the rpm's are high enough.


I spent a day with a city here in AZ and their enforcement officer for Noise.

We tested a bunch of different types of bike, modified and not and the bottom line was this.

Any bike that broke the 85 dBa legal limit was speeding.

The only way to break the limit and not speed was to stop a straight pipe bike next to the officer and nail it to leave.

My Report (http://www.southwestrides.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=19482&postcount=26)

Report on cyclerides.com (http://www.southwestrides.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=20082&postcount=29)

[STingray]

"Barry will be writing an article, so I am not gonna go into full detail here"

Personally, I'd be interested in reading the whole article. Where will it be published? When?

Thank you!

Ray

[Rob Hephner]

"Barry will be writing an article, so I am not gonna go into full detail here"

Personally, I'd be interested in reading the whole article. Where will it be published? When?

Thank you!

Ray

That's the second link. Two separate stories.

[maxedout]

Loud pipes didn't save lives until there was a public backlash against them and a publicly acceptable reason was needed to defend their use. I'm not talking about low pitched burbly I can hear my engine pipes but the rat pipes without baffles. The loud pipes can help power but mostly provide a perceived sense of power and the I am a baddass image.
Sure I can hear the really loud pipes when driving but they can be anywhere, I still have to look before changing lanes and I am going to do that anyway.
If a driver can hear you but can't see you they will change lanes no matter how loud you're pipes are. Driving is done with the eyes not the ears.
If you are on a two lane road are you going to look or listen before making a lane change? I sure hope you are looking.
I drive expecting not to be seen and act accordingly. If you want to increase your chances of survival drive for yourself AND everybody else. Lord nows most of them are doing everything but driving.
Have you seen the SUV guy with the news on his tv screen driving to work? You can be as loud as you want he doesn't care, he has the volume turned up unless he is using his cell phone!!

[kingprawnokay]

Interesting reporting, Rob. It seems that the rider's right hand may be the primary cause of increased noise and subsequent negative public attitudes associated with aftermarket pipes. These findings back up my own non-documented experiences.

The cited articles do well to point out the relationship between rider responsibility/self-control and government action.

[Kempo-STer]

You guys that say they don't save lives are in denial..

I think your dislike or opinion is driving your answer that they don't. (believe me I don't like them either)

The bottom line is this:
They give people an auditory 'heads up' that there is a bike around..PERIOD..
and thats a good thing IMO..regardless of whether I can as a car driver pinpoint its source I usually know that the sound is connected to a motorcycle and maybe I need to look twice if I can't immediately see them.

No I am not saying that I am taking a screw driver to my pipes but I wish some of you would look at the question objectively because being heard (as well as being seen) no matter how annoying or how much you (or I) don't like them HAS SOMEWHERE AT SOME POINT caused a car driver to look twice...

[Rob Hephner]

Ya know, if the pipes fire directly down or straight out from the side of the bike there is a chance they can be used to alert cars in front of that rider. But facing backwards they just don't work. Physics is not on your side.

So yes, a minority of loud pipes could help save lives.

However, by doing so they take the driver of the alerted vehicle's attention away from driving and could endanger another life.

Since the sound is not a recognized alert signal people do not know how to respond (as they do with sirens) so are you willing to accept the responsibility of what could happen?

[kingprawnokay]

I'd really like to know if there is a dBA level within the legal limit that increases rider conspicuity. Also, are certain frequencies more effective?

[Rob Hephner]

You have to be above 105 dBa to penetrate the typical cabin at 10 feet.

Above 130 dBa at 50 feet.

(This assumes a moving vehicle, with closed windows.)

[kingprawnokay]

Rob,

Is that true for all frequencies? Most materials have resonant frequencies that confound sound dampening.

I guess another option would be to regulate pipes so that they all produce certain frequencies that a car's computer could detect via microphone and warn the driver of a motorcyclist in the area.

[Rob Hephner]

Rob,

Is that true for all frequencies?

No, that is a general catch all. There are no true specific frequency emulation in a moving vehicle due to the Doppler Effect.

Most materials have resonant frequencies that confound sound dampening. Which is why designs include many different types of sound damping material and procedures.

I guess another option would be to regulate pipes so that they all produce certain frequencies that a car's computer could detect via microphone and warn the driver of a motorcyclist in the area.

There are several products in the OE marketplace that address the issue of quiet cars. One is for Emergency Vehicles and others are for children and other obstacles. Motorcycle sounds could be "listened" for as well.

Some of the automated vehicle contests foster this technology and NASA has some technologies that could also be adapted.

The problem is this, introducing something that warns people that a motorcycle is near will only make them look for us less, not more....

[STingray]

You guys that say they don't save lives are in denial..

I think your dislike or opinion is driving your answer that they don't. (believe me I don't like them either)

The bottom line is this:
They give people an auditory 'heads up' that there is a bike around..PERIOD..
and thats a good thing IMO..regardless of whether I can as a car driver pinpoint its source I usually know that the sound is connected to a motorcycle and maybe I need to look twice if I can't immediately see them.


If I may interject a thought here (hear? :D ). Your assertion that we're in denial puzzles me.

Only a few short years ago, the A.M.A. conducted extensive testing regarding loud pipes. The conclusions were unassailable and conclusive: "loud pipes do NOT save lives". The 2 reasons I recall specifically were-
#1) the frequency of the noise (specifically speaking of HD pipes) is such that it is non-directional. That means, no matter which direction the pipes were pointed, it wouldn't make a difference, because a driver, in a cage (with whatever distractions were being employed) would not be able to discern the direction of a "noise maker", thus actually causing confusion, and actually hightening the probability of an impact.
#2) The "annoyance factor" was actually shown to cause road rage, and an increase in the number of cagers that did something that caused an incedent. There were other reasons, but they escape me right now (exact wording is mine, BTW)

This is (was-?) all on the A.M.A.'s website when it all came out. I'm not sure if it's still there, but I'm positive any A.M.A. chapter member (I'm not) or headquarters staff would be willing to point you in the right direction for more information. IIRC the tesing was conducted in/near Chicago (?). They since have implemented a campaign: "Loud Pipes Lose Rights". Bumper stickers and everything (sent out free to all who asked). At that point, any bike with loud pipes began not to be admitted to any A.M.A. event, paid member or not. They're serious.

And, after all this, anything above 82 (85-?) dbA is illegal, and it's illegal for a reason: it ticks people off and hurts people's ears. There's already too much "noise" without adding an adult child's desire for attention to the mix. Have a pint lad :pint

:D

[Papa]

I wonder why they dont point 'em forward if they save lives.

[Rob Hephner]

I wonder why they dont point 'em forward if they save lives.

Probably because the rider would go deaf.

As it is on a bike with loud pipes you can't hear anything but the bike....bit we are supposed to forget about that, right??

The logic of the argument for loud pips simply astounds me. LOL

If they simply said, "I like how they sound." I would accept that without debate.

[E the B]

Most of you guys will love this one ~

My girlfriend says "Loud pipes equals small "unit."

My pipes? Damn near silent, of course.

[kingprawnokay]

I have at least one more observation and question.

Many on this forum have reported more "close calls" since buying the ST and have described the pipes as "stealthy". There may or may not be a relationship between these two statements. Regardless, motorcycles should not be stealthy (def. not seen or heard).

So, Rob, you've done a good job of debunking the idea of louder pipes working in traffic; the two major arguments being: 1.) Cabin sound dampening material filters out pipe noise that is below the legal limit. 2.) Loud pipes may surprise a driver and cause an accident. Head on a swivel and all that.

Okay, so loud pipes may not increase safety in car traffic, but what about animal traffic? Many motorcyclists die each year after striking an animal. Do loud pipes scare wildlife away from the road?

[STPaulK]

Many motorcyclists die each year after striking an animal. Do loud pipes scare wildlife away from the road?

OK, I'll break my vow to stay out of this but technically this response isn't directly related to loud pipes anyway.

Living in the upper midwest in what was officially designated the 2nd highest deer population density state, I've seen alot of deer around the roadway and have observed their movements under all sorts of scenarios. There is only one conclusion I can make about deer from all these observations....they have no pattern whatsoever. None. People often call their response strictly instinct. I disagree with this as I have not seen any sort of pattern that appears to have been preprogrammed into a forest rat's mind.

I don't want to hijack this to a deer thread so I'll keep my observations related to what I see deer do when they hear a noise. I've seen them do the following with trucks, cars and bikes bearing down on them:

1. Stand there and get hit.
2. Run away from the noise.
3. Run toward the noise (and almost or was hit). I hit one in my car who heard me coming while standing 100 yards off the road.
4. Run in a completely panicked zig zag (no rhyme or reason to their direction).

I think it's more likely that animals will react more to the vibes they feel in the ground than any noise in the air. Of course there is no directional quality to the vibes and maybe that is why animals are unpredictable. Personally I would rather not startle an animal to begin with.

[kwslhs]

You are not going to get scientific evidence on an internet chat forum.

Commission a study.

Let it go.

[kingprawnokay]

KWSLHS,

I'm learning something from the posts. I'd venture that others have learned some things from this thread.

There's no harm in discussion. IMO, questioning is more important than agreeing. I realize that asking questions and challenging "answers" is irritating to some. If you're no longer interested add the thread to your "ignore" list.

[Papa]

I think the whine of the ST1300 makes deer freeze in their tracks unless otherwise already spooked,, just my opinion of course.:popcorn

[STingray]

1st, Papa, the best use of that smiley I've ever seen :D

2nd, OK, so, discrepancies in opinion usually come about because no one is willing to submit to a singular "authority". Understood! Hey, there are 6.5 Billion people in the world, all with "opinions", right? And, as we all know, opinions are like bellybuttons: everybody's got one. Here's the kicker: Each opinion is just as important as the next guys'.

Now, if we start basing our "belief" in actual fact or scientific evidence, then our "opinion" no longer exists in the realm of vaguer. But of course, long-held opinions die hard, but it's necessary for us to grow to <greater> maturity.

So, I did a little (very little, you might find more) digging: Fodder for all to consider...and please, consider the source (i.e. not ME! :scared2: ):
http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/positions/noise.asp

http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2005/noisemeeting.asp

http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2007/Denver.asp

We can see where this is heading, right? It ain't good folks. I for one try to mitigate such public feelings. I was a very exclusive winery a couple of years ago picking up my allotment. After loading the bike, I threw a leg over, and was just about to tap the starter. A little girl, about 4-5 years old got out of the car she was in with her Mom. She looked at me and quickly covered up her ears with both hands, and squinted real hard. Being about 5-6 ft away, I safely cranked up the bike. Her Mom grabbed her little hand and said "see honey, not ALL motorcycles are loud." Without that experience, how do you think that little girl would've voted, and/or felt about motorcycle issues when she was old enough? I kindly waved to her with my fingers, and she waved back with a great big smile. Personally, incurring public trust is a much more productive avenue for motorcyclists to pursue than to have the "outta my way" attitude that so many seem to espouse these days (nobody here though, right? ;) )

I've said my piece. Have a good read!

Ray

[DaleC]

I don't know about saving lives...but they sure give me headache when I have to ride behind someone who has them.

[Kempo-STer]

So yes, a minority of loud pipes could help save lives.




BINGO....THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING..

Out of this one..have fun guys

[Rob Hephner]

BINGO....THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING..

Out of this one..have fun guys

You didn't bother to read anything else did you?

:rolleyes:

[pretbek]

You didn't bother to read anything else did you?

:rolleyes:

Well, perhaps he did.
But I agree with Kempo-San: Technically loud pipes do save some lives, because I'm sure there have been a few instances that a MC rider was noticed due to the bloody annoying noise he projected to everyone.

The big arguments of this thread seems to be:
- if the small chance of saving a life is worth the big annoyance to everyone.
- if making a huge amount of noise mostly the people behind you is a clever way of being safe, especially when that seems to be the only thing you rely on for your safety.
- if there is any doubt left that blue is the fastest.

[Rob Hephner]

I'm gonna mount chainsaws on my bike, I am pretty sure that will save my life somehow....;)

[Coop]

While is was enjoying some of our super straight back roads yesterday, I passed a large group of loud pipe believers going the other way. They were all exercising their freedom from those repressive helmet laws that used to be on the books. What was unusual was the number of stragglers behind the van with the trailer. A few miles down the road I saw why. The lady driving the compact car with the big dent in it's side might have heard most of those loud pipes, but she must have missed one because there was a wrecked Harley in the intersection and a bleeding pirate lying on the ground being attended to by passersby until the ambulance got there. One of them had stayed behind to direct traffic though. Gotta love the loyalty they showed for a buddy in trouble. Moral of the story.......Ride defensively!! And of course, you meet the nicest people in lying in the bar ditch.

[Larrypv]

[QUOTE=STingray;335696]1st, Papa, the best use of that smiley I've ever seen :D
And, as we all know, opinions are like bellybuttons: everybody's got one. Here's the kicker: Each opinion is just as important as the next guys'.

Ray, I thought the saying was: Opinions are like a$$ holes. Everyone's got one, and everbody's stinks, except mine. :-)

[thumperjdm]

To the "Loud pipes save lives" group:

Please let me know where you live, and I will borrow somebody's loud motorcycle to drive past your house repeatedly at 4:00 a.m. At some point, you will begrudgingly agree that loud pipes are nothing but noise pollution.

I love how the "loud pipes" people always baby the throttle in their own neighborhood, but then think nothing of getting heavy on the throttle in someone else's backyard. If you are one of these riders, then you have already admitted there's a problem with what you're doing.

[gegundez]

My Two Bros pipes give a meaty sound (like a Corvette), compared to the wimpy "Jetson's flying car" factory pipes. They are not loud like the crotch-rocket Yamaha R1 I had, just a deep rumbling that can only be heard 20-30 feet away.

[STingray]

My Two Bros pipes give a meaty sound (like a Corvette), compared to the wimpy "Jetson's flying car" factory pipes. They are not loud like the crotch-rocket Yamaha R1 I had, just a deep rumbling that can only be heard 20-30 feet away.

Well, maybe at idle...

Seriously. Unless TBR has done something to quiet their pipes with silencers or something (hey, it could happen! :)) the TBRs are noisy noisy noisy when at freeway speed. Maybe you don't hear them 'cause you're in the saddle enjoying your ride, but someone behind you isn't liking you very much. I rode behind a friend w/TBRs on his 1100 for a bunch of miles on a rally once. I found that about 1/2 - 3/4 of a mile was about right until I stopped hearing them. THAT friends, is not "quiet" no matter HOW you measure it. :nuts1:

Ray

[Sink]

I agree......

I bet you guys missed me!:crackup

[jac]

loud pipe make us loose right a lot of road in city all around the province of q uebec are close to motorcycle andthe ticket are not cheap and ther is a lot of demand from people living on road 132 and 138 (montreal to quebec city)on each side of st-lawrence river to eleminate the passing of motorcycle. chek out the capm www.capm.qc.ca site where trying to avoid big trouble whit non motorcycle people thanks jac

[STingray]

Thanks for the report Jac. Further evidence of just how stupid/insensitive/ignorant/selfish/etc. loud pipes really are.

Not that anyone here would do that.....;)

Ray

[Kempo-STer]

YOU GUYS ARE STILL AT THIS!!!! MY GOD..

Go open a thread about engine heat, ABS or which oil to use:D :p: :p: :p:

[johnephlin]

Loud mouths also make me angru.:biker: :D

[Bones]

YOU GUYS ARE STILL AT THIS!!!! MY GOD..

Go open a thread about engine heat, ABS or which oil to use:D :p: :p: :p:

If an F/A-18 with loud afterburners attempts to take off from a treadmill runway on a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier while traveling with a tail wind that continuously adjusts to equal the plane's forward progress, will the abutters to the carrier complain about the noise?

[STPaulK]

YOU GUYS ARE STILL AT THIS!!!! MY GOD..

Go open a thread about engine heat, ABS or which oil to use:D :p: :p: :p:

Actually, there was not one post on this thread for three full weeks until you posted this. Seems like you are the one who doesn't want to let it die. :rolleyes:

[Kempo-STer]

Actually, there was not one post on this thread for three full weeks until you posted this. Seems like you are the one who doesn't want to let it die. :rolleyes:

Absolutely:cool:

What oil do you use and do ABS really doesn't make you stop quicker LOL...

[pretbek]

do ABS really doesn't make you stop quicker

Well, which oil do you use in your ABS? That makes all the difference.

The wrong oil in your ABS might also induce coolant-wobble and lots of heat coming from your windshield.

[KrazyKooter]

I use relative bearing grease in my ABS.

[Bones]

I use relative bearing grease in my ABS.

Interesting...I prefer friend bearing grease in my ABS. That way I have a choice, because you can't choose your relatives. :rolleyes:

[Greg Gaines]

Loud Pipes Save Lives is the excuse riders have for putting straight pipes on bikes that won’t do much else but convert gas into noise. Many 1000 cc sport bikes pick up 20 hp with a power commander and a after market pipe but at 12000 RPM I don’t think they are concerned with the safety of the noise.
In my humble opinion
:) :) :)
Greg

[Bug]

I ride a 2008 Goldwing with factory exhaust - a very quiet running bike compared to most. A few weeks ago I was riding along in the right lane of a four-lane doing about 45 mph and there was very little traffic on the road. I admit I wasn't paying as much attention to my mirrors as I should have but out of the corner of my eye I spotted a Harley ride up on the left side of me. I wasn't expecting anything to be there and his presence caught me off-guard. He slowed down for a few seconds as he passed, sort of a "one biker to another" kind of acknowledgment, a recognition that I was there. I looked at his bike: "nice bike", I thought. It wasn't until he was about 10 feet past me that I realized how loud his exhaust was. VERY loud, and definitely NOT factory. There was no other traffic nearby at that time and the sound of his bike was annoyingly loud until he was at least 1/2 a mile away. As he stepped on it the sound of his bike slowly faded out.

So what does this say about loud pipes saving lives? I didn't know he was there when he was behind me, nor could I hear him when he was along side of me. It wasn't until he was past me that I could even hear his pipes and by that time I didn't NEED to hear him - he was already visible. Would his loud pipes have prevented me from changing lanes in front of him or, worse yet, colliding with him? Not likely. I couldn't hear his bike at that point. Had I been in a car with the windows up, the A/C on, the music turned up and the kids yelling would have been even less likely that I would have heard him coming. And at the time that he was 'audibly invisible' to me I was wearing a shorty helmet and the stereo was off.

Some people like loud exhaust systems on their cars but they don't say they are doing it for safety reasons. They just prefer the sound of the custom exhaust system. I don't but, as they say, "to each their own". If the guys that ride with straight pipes would just say they prefer the sound of the pipes instead of trying to call it a safety device it may be a little easier for me to go along with the idea.

So do loud pipes save lives? Not in my opinion.

[illzoni]

The poll needs another option, "Loud Pipes are Stupid"

[Kempo-STer]

So do loud horns save lives or only the quiet ones??...LOL

...or only horns with ABS?? Dunno


Sorry I CAN'T HELP MYSELF:a13: :crackup :butt1: :popcorn :toot1:

[Rainrider]

An un-asked question has to do with just how ugly are the original equipment pipes. I think mine are visually ugly and they sound ugly. After market cans don't have to be loud to sound pretty. Life is too short to ride ugly.

[SKS]

I thought I'd bump this because I can now say YES, DEFINITELY. Loud pipes save lives.

I was driving in my car on Rt 95 in the middle lane when I heard----did not see--- the loud pipes of a motorcycle behind me. I looked around as best I could, but couldn't see anything at all. Hearing the noise, I stayed in my lane thinking that's the safest thing to do until the bike passed me.

Sure enough, some guy blows past me on my right. I didn't see him at all.

Let me clarify, I'm not an idiot. Well, maybe I am, but I'm not an idiot because of THIS incident.

The bike was black, the rider was wearing black clothing with no reflective material, it was the middle of the night AND HE HAD NO LIGHTS AT ALL.

So yes, his loud pipes made me aware of him, because God Knows, he was doing everything he could to be invisible.

[st1300r]

No lights at night?? Loud pipes ain't gonna stop the loud crashing noise and shower of sparks. :eek:

[lanman1203]

As far as Loud Pipes go I could care less one way or the other. What kills me is the guys I see With the loud pipes save lives patches sewn to their leather vests that absolutely hate and will not wear a Helmet! NEWS FLASH: HELMETS SAVE LIVES!!!!:soapbox:BDH:

[st1300r]

No you got it all wrong.
Loud pipes appease the crash gods.
No LP rider has ever crashed.
Helmets are for newbs with training wheels.

[patiodadio]

... As per AeroStich.....Loud suits save lives !

[STingray]

I thought I'd bump this because I can now say YES, DEFINITELY. Loud pipes save lives.

I was driving in my car on Rt 95 in the middle lane when I heard----did not see--- the loud pipes of a motorcycle behind me. I looked around as best I could, but couldn't see anything at all. Hearing the noise, I stayed in my lane thinking that's the safest thing to do until the bike passed me.

Sure enough, some guy blows past me on my right. I didn't see him at all.

Let me clarify, I'm not an idiot. Well, maybe I am, but I'm not an idiot because of THIS incident.

The bike was black, the rider was wearing black clothing with no reflective material, it was the middle of the night AND HE HAD NO LIGHTS AT ALL.

So yes, his loud pipes made me aware of him, because God Knows, he was doing everything he could to be invisible.

Apparently as rephrasing of your thought might be appropriate in this case:

"Loud Pipes Saves Idiots"

[Randy Bowers]

Yes I think loud pipes save lives... I'm not saying loud earth shattering pipes are being condoned... just loud enough to grab the attention of drivers around you. They hear you coming, they know you are there. I never, ever had anyone try to take my lane or cut me off on my Sabre with my RoadHouse 65's with baffles cut in half. They were not LOUD, they were loud enough to grab attention. I have however been cutoff, shared lanes without wanting to on my ST.

+1, and my ST is stock, but both Harleys have after market exaust on them. They don,t have 114 hp so they needed help. Still thinking about the ST. And YES, the guy black was just plain stuped......

[Ripshod]

Wow, a loud pipes thread. Where's the religion and politics thread?

Well I'm late getting here and won't read the whole thing. Someone probably already said this but here goes:

I'll believe that loud pipes are a safety feature when they turn those pipes around and point them forward. That annoying noise from an approaching bike is more likely to hit my ears after bouncing off buildings or terrain, directing my attention away from the bike. It's a bogus argument. I don't have a problem with enhanced exhaust notes but straight pipes just make no sense at all to me.

[curmudgeon]

+1, and my ST is stock, but both Harleys have after market exaust on them. They don,t have 114 hp so they needed help. Still thinking about the ST. And YES, the guy black was just plain stuped......

So you put louder pipes on to increase power?
Do you have proof the power was increased?
I have seen magazine articles where they installed various aftermarket pipes and power wasn't increased, and in fact in most cases decreased power.

[Papa Ritch]

So you put louder pipes on to increase power?
Do you have proof the power was increased?
I have seen magazine articles where they installed various aftermarket pipes and power wasn't increased, and in fact in most cases decreased power.

On a DYNORUN in Feb of 04 @ Latus Motor H-D Oregon my bike a 03 Did this.
Stock 112.3 HP Torque 83.9
Staintuned 113.4 HP Torque 85.3
Staintuned Exh tip remove 114.1 HP Torque 85.2
I have very hard time kepting this exter HP from runing away.
I hope this will help. Ritch:03biker:

[Kempo-STer]

I thought I'd bump this because I can now say YES, DEFINITELY. Loud pipes save lives.

I was driving in my car on Rt 95 in the middle lane when I heard----did not see--- the loud pipes of a motorcycle behind me. I looked around as best I could, but couldn't see anything at all. Hearing the noise, I stayed in my lane thinking that's the safest thing to do until the bike passed me.

Sure enough, some guy blows past me on my right. I didn't see him at all.

Let me clarify, I'm not an idiot. Well, maybe I am, but I'm not an idiot because of THIS incident.

The bike was black, the rider was wearing black clothing with no reflective material, it was the middle of the night AND HE HAD NO LIGHTS AT ALL.

So yes, his loud pipes made me aware of him, because God Knows, he was doing everything he could to be invisible.


Of course they save lives....Just because people don't like them, they say they DON'T Save lives because it helps there arguement. I Don't like them ONE bit but I can at least be objective on the subject.

Steve, You're story is case in point. You heard what you didn't see...

Again, Its funny how a lot of us chose to put LOUDER horns on our bikes but louder pipes don't make a difference????

[st11ray]

Of course they save lives....Just because people don't like them, they say they DON'T Save lives because it helps there arguement. I Don't like them ONE bit but I can at least be objective on the subject.

Steve, You're story is case in point. You heard what you didn't see...

Again, Its funny how a lot of us chose to put LOUDER horns on our bikes but louder pipes don't make a difference????

Yeah, but the horn is pointing forward and I don't ride around all day holding the horn button down.

[Kempo-STer]

Yeah, but the horn is pointing forward and I don't ride around all day holding the horn button down.

Gadzooks...But think how safe you'd be with the horn on All the time??
Also, So Steve is NUTS because he heard the Pipes of the rider coming up BEHIND HIM!!!

End of arguement.........

[st11ray]

No, I don't think Steve is nuts. And I have heard bikes before without seeing them. I'm not counting on any noisemaker (horn or pipes) saving my life. My son drives an ambulance and people don't hear him coming or they do and just don't care. So yes, some people hear them but you better not count on everyone hearing them.

[st1300r]

Nah. There's never an end to an argument (http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm) just ask my SO.

[Kempo-STer]

No, I don't think Steve is nuts. And I have heard bikes before without seeing them. I'm not counting on any noisemaker (horn or pipes) saving my life. So yes, some people hear them but you better not count on everyone hearing them.

Right Ray...I AGREE with you 100 PERCENT! However here is the basic gist what I am trying to say......

The question simply was "DO LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES?" ..period, end of question......And my arguements simply address the BASIC question..

It has nothing to do with 'counting on them saving me'...or counting on any nosemaker to save your life because that was NOT the question in the post. I view your opinion in the same way. I am not couting on any noisemaker either but if you ask me if they save lives, of course they do..

[STBNE]

I think in a gen'l way loud pipes do save lives...but its not an absolute rule.I can think of at least one person who would not hear them....ME!If I am driving in my cage,I usually do not wear my hearing aids as the noises from the road are quite bothersome to me...Therefore if I dont see it,I most likely would not hear it either.However,I pride myself on seeing everything that is possible...does that mean i have all bases covered?Prolly not but I'd wager that 95% of the time I am aware of what is around me...:D

[GRN]

Right Ray...I AGREE with you 100 PERCENT! However here is the basic gist what I am trying to say......

The question simply was "DO LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES?" ..period, end of question......And my arguements simply address the BASIC question..

It has nothing to do with 'counting on them saving me'...or counting on any nosemaker to save your life because that was NOT the question in the post. I view your opinion in the same way. I am not couting on any noisemaker either but if you ask me if they save lives, of course they do..

Toodles... I'm going to play devils advocate here... to a small, very small degree, I agree with you. Loud pipes save lives inadvertently... Steve's case is case and point: if that rider had done anything at all to be SEEN, like riding with functioning lights :eek:, the pipes would probably have played no part, Steve would have likely seen him well in advance of hearing him. Loud pipes saved that situation only because it was the only factor present that could... and wrongly so...

Is being heard a good thing? Probably... but loud pipes are no where near as effective as the audible contrast created by the sudden blast of a loud horn, especially in heavy traffic. I think too many who have loud pipes count on them to save the day... being seen through use of high viz measures, and proper positioning in traffic with a loud horn as a plan B when managing the idiot factor saves many, many more lives than loud pipes ever have or will.

[STBNE]

I would agree that being seen is more of a life saver than being heard....I am 100% visual.My eyes are my ears in 99% of the situations I encounter.As you all know i like to say"Loud colors save lives!"Since 90% (as quoted by Bones) of things percieved are visual in nature it would make sense to address that visibility first.That is where I put my emphasis...:D:biker: If you were approaching a deaf person driving in a cage which would you rather have...loud pipes or loud colored clothing?:rolleyes:It has been demonstrated that good hearing is not a pre-requisite for being able to drive a motor vehicle....good vision is of paramount importance in this regard.

[Kempo-STer]

Remember the base question..thats all I am trying to answer..

its not a comparison on being seen vs being heard...Its not supposed to measure what percentage does loud pipes play a safety part..Its not whether you think they are annoying..(and I do) To me its a simple yes or no..

I don't disagree with any opinions and infact I am in line with what everyone is saying for the most part..

But the simple fact that something loud is coming your way, chances are (However small they are according to some) it will increase the fact that something is around and it will raise someones antenna..thats all..

[STBNE]

Remember the base question..thats all I am trying to answer..

its not a comparison on being seen vs being heard...Its not supposed to measure what percentage does loud pipes play a safety part..Its not whether you think they are annoying..(and I do) To me its a simple yes or no..

I don't disagree with any opinions and infact I am in line with what everyone is saying for the most part..

But the simple fact that something loud is coming your way, chances are (However small they are according to some) it will increase the fact that something is around and it will raise someones antenna..thats all..
OK in the simplest of terms ...NO they do not save lives... the problem with a no or a yes answer is that its sounds like an absolute...and we all know there are exceptions to everything...

[Tourin']

Hate really loud pipes. Also hate that my friends and co-workers use that saving lives claim. What can be accurately stated is that, yes, louder (than STock) and obnoxiously loud pipes are more easily heard than Bikes without same. But the loud pipes (except in a few cases one may cite) aren't what saves someone....unless they're already in a near-miss scenario. How one gets into, or prevents the near-miss situations is the journey we're all on everyday. It's more influenced by defensive driving tactics, including that of not overdriving the conditions present.

That said, I do like a neat sounding rumble or throaty sound on many scoots, like many classic or muscle cars. But loud should be limited to the track. And when I get my transporter built (STar Trek thingy), my neighborhood will wonder where the following things went: loud boom-box cars, gangbanger cars, and coffee can exhaust pipes. Like the tribbles, I'm gonna send this stuff to the Klingons.:07biker:

[Onicabbit]

Well here in California where its legal to split lanes... Considering some of these squids are doing 30+ mph faster than traffic. Besides your pipes are pointing rearward and it's only shockingly loud after its too late when the bike is already in front of you. Mind you I don't have any other experiences outside of California (note sig quote...). If they are going with the flow of traffic... maybe a little help... If they really want to make use of sound as an attention getter I guess they should point their pipes forward with a 45 degree angle outwards. :nuts1: heh maybe not...

[Kempo-STer]

OK in the simplest of terms ...NO they do not save lives... the problem with a no or a yes answer is that its sounds like an absolute...and we all know there are exceptions to everything...

On No? If they saved 1 LIFE than they save lives..

So re-read Steve's post and get rid of how you feel about loud pipes because the post was not asking for an opinion..

So 85 million registered riders out there and not a SINGLE loud pipe saved a SINGLE life SOMEWHERE.???..c'mon Bennie, get you opinion out of answering the question!

[STBNE]

Okay, so I'm going to shake things up again by introducing a topic that will undoubtedly spark a debate. How do you feel about loud pipes? Do they alert traffic to the presence of a motorcycle and therefore limit the number of accidents? Links to pertinent research is welcome.

I bought my 2Bros for three reasons.
1.) Replacing 1 STock pipe was more expensive than buying two aftermarket pipes.
2.) 16lb. weight reduction.
3.) STock pipes/engine was too quiet and people often didn't realize I was there.

Some possible responses for Mellow to sort out into poll format (please):

Loud pipes definately save lives.
A little louder than STock is probably a good thing.
Loud pipes make me angry. They serve no purpose.

:03biker:
Kempo-San Pls reread the post yourself it clearly asks for your opinion and your feelings on this........and in my case I would not hear someone before seeing them unless they blew up a nuke bomb...so that guys loud pipes wouldn't be worth squat in my situation...so there an exception to the popular notion of the day:)

[st11ray]

I thought we were talking about LOUD PIPES (Rhineharts, V&H,etc). I just reread the original post and I don't believe most would consider 2BROS loud pipes.

[STPaulK]

Maybe a loud exhaust has led to a riders death too. It's not unreasonable to imagine a cage driver swerving their lane because they are swiveling their neck trying to find the noise. I mean if you are going to start arguing absolutes, both sides of the outcome have to be considered.

[STPaulK]

I thought we were talking about LOUD PIPES (Rhineharts, V&H,etc). I just reread the original post and I don't believe most would consider 2BROS loud pipes.

Some of the loudest pipes I have ever heard were 2-Bros. The user can choose to make the sound they want by removable baffles and packing.

[STBNE]

Maybe a loud exhaust has led to a riders death too. It's not unreasonable to imagine a cage driver swerving their lane because they are swiveling their neck trying to find the noise. I mean if you are going to start arguing absolutes, both sides of the outcome have to be considered.
Thats what i said earlier...there are no absolutes..there are always exceptions..so that being the case ...there really is no definitive answer YES or No Loud pipes Save Lives because both answers are true given the proper circumstances:)

[sroddy7855]

I've had loud pipes in the past and didn't notice any difference in other drivers. What I did notice was a difference in myself. Hearing any loud noise for long periods has a detrimental effect on you. Loud pipes = more tiring,less aware of your surroundings,slower reaction times,etc. I drove OTR trucks for over 14 years, mostly coast to coast, many times over 4K weekly,and can honestly say if SAFETY is your concern, the quieter (and smoother) the better. If you wanna do your Easyrider,outlaw, impersonation go for it,but the safety argument doesn't hold water for a lot of reasons. ................... It's probaly some kinda Freudian thing revealing a feeling of low self esteem indicating an inferior part of the male anatomy.

[GRN]

I've had loud pipes in the past and didn't notice any difference in other drivers. What I did notice was a difference in myself. Hearing any loud noise for long periods has a detrimental effect on you. Loud pipes = more tiring,less aware of your surroundings,slower reaction times,etc. I drove OTR trucks for over 14 years, mostly coast to coast, many times over 4K weekly,and can honestly say if SAFETY is your concern, the quieter (and smoother) the better.

And... the military has done testing (with regard to pilots) that has clearly concluded that high levels of continuous noise have significant detrimental effects on visual perception...

[bucky123]

I once saw a guy on a Harley with a lisence plate cover ring that said "Loud Pipes Save Lives"
.....
....
....
He wasn't wearing a helmet

[st11ray]

I once saw a guy on a Harley with a lisence plate cover ring that said "Loud Pipes Save Lives"
.....
....
....
He wasn't wearing a helmet

He doesn't need a helmet, his pipes are gonna save him!

[Kempo-STer]

Maybe Fire trucks should get rid of their sirens???:banghead:

[pretbek]

Maybe Fire trucks should get rid of their sirens???:banghead:

If they start running the sirens every second their engine is running, emergency or not? Absolutely.

[Kempo-STer]

If they start running the sirens every second their engine is running, emergency or not? Absolutely.

How about when they run them to GET YOUR ATTENTION the WHOLE TIME from the fire house to the scene of the fire??? So lets get rid of sirens when the fire truck is running the siren EVERY SECOND from leavign the station to the fire...no different.
How bout that logic? Point is they do it to get your attention..

I challenge people to be OBJECTIVE and it is obvious that some of you can't separate how you feel about something with the fact that there are people EVEN on this board who have cited examples of hearing a bike that they did not see. That should be proof enought support the statement and not just have anyone dismiss it offhand just because they don;t like them. I believe that there are absolute cases where a loud pipe saved a life because it attracted the attention that the rider had in mind when he put them on. Regardless of riders doing it for other narcissistic reasons etc etc..
As I've said before, I don't like them either but at least I can rise above my feelings and likely give the nod to the fact that noise in some cases is USED to attract attention, being sirens, loud pipes, fire alarms and likely saved a life as a result.

The fact that you don't like them has nothing to do with the question. And that is where most people are NOT getting my point. They are argueing that they dont save lives because they don't like them and that is where my problem lies...

Now if the post was "How do you feel about loud pipes?" then 99% of the posts in this thread would apply. Most are opinions to that question and not what the post was asking.

[pretbek]

The fact that you don't like them has nothing to do with the question. And that is where most people are NOT getting my point.

Just for the record, I do see your point and I agree with your premise that on a net balance loud pipes save more people than they kill, so yes, loud pipes save lives. (I thought I posted this agreement with you somewhere in this thread, but I can't find it anymore...)

My most recent post which prompted your reaction is however indeed to reflect my opinion of whether I like loud pipes. I wrapped that opinion in my answer to your specific question whether fire trucks should get rid of their sirens.
I did not claim that these imaginative permanent-on fire truck sirens (obvious parallel to loud pipes) would not prevent collisions. I just think they should be banned, just like loud pipes. Which are banned. (but not an enforced ban).


EDIT:
Ah, finally found it! My post was #319 on page 32 (http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6453&page=32) of this thread.

[Kempo-STer]

Just for the record, I do see your point and I agree with your premise that on a net balance loud pipes save more people than they kill, so yes, loud pipes save lives. (I thought I posted this agreement with you somewhere in this thread, but I can't find it anymore...)



Thanks Dennis...I can avoid my meds today.
I'm trying to approach the post as a question of fact rather than an opinion.

My opinion, I hate them.

[georgeorge]

Breathe deep..... Inhale all the calm in the world.... exhale all the bad in the world.... ahh doesn't that feel better now.
FWIW..... I have loud pipes on my hyosung (gonna get myself banned here at ST-Owners) and I have to say.... people turn and look at you to find out what's making all the noise. That in itself has to say something for the 'Loud pipes saves lives' arguement.
BTW, I hate the loudness of the pipes on my Hyosung, but I HAD to get rid of the cannon that was on there just for esthetics. I do love the looks of the slasher I've got on there now but they are loud...... WADYA SAY??!?!?!!?

[STPaulK]

I have loud pipes on my hyosung (gonna get myself banned here at ST-Owners) and I have to say.... people turn and look at you to find out what's making all the noise.

If they happen to run into a little kid on a bicycle while they are looking for that noise, would you then also agree that Loud Pipes Take Lives? Since we have a few who insist on making this a black and white argument, then we should consider the opposite effect shouldn't we?

[georgeorge]

If they happen to run into a little kid on a bicycle while they are looking for that noise, would you then also agree that Loud Pipes Take Lives? Since we have a few who insist on making this a black and white argument, then we should consider the opposite effect shouldn't we?

Black and white???? You just made it SO grey by implying that I'm going to get a third party killed by having loud pipes. I guess sirens on firetrucks do the same?

nevermind.

[EASt]

Loud Pipes don't save lives. That's silly. Who ever thought of that?

Doctors and nurses and paramedics and firefighters and cops and soldiers save lives.

I haven't seen a set of loud pipes run into a burning building to save a child or deliver CPR to a person in cardiac arrest.

Loud pipes just make noise.

[Kempo-STer]

Loud Pipes don't save lives. That's silly. Who ever thought of that?

Doctors and nurses and paramedics and firefighters and cops and soldiers save lives.

I haven't seen a set of loud pipes run into a burning building to save a child or deliver CPR to a person in cardiac arrest.

Loud pipes just make noise.

Mellow..PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD

I'm gonna go talk to my mailbox:banghead:

[st11ray]

I was behind a guy on a HD dresser on I-85 yesterday in Gastonia, NC. It was rush hour traffic and we were in the far left lane of 3 lanes. Every time the guy on the HD would start to pass a car in the middle lane, he would pull in his clutch and "rap" his pipes. I guess he used them for his horn? I know they were obnoxiously loud from where I was sitting.

[Hotel 179]

Loud pipes..., Crashing Sux, If you can read this..., My other car is a..., Zero to ___.....

It's supposed to be little things that you can stick on your helmet as a "Funny Ha-Ha" not use as a thesis for a paper. It's a joke.

"If I have to explain...."

[georgeorge]

Mellow..PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD

I'm gonna go talk to my mailbox:banghead:

:shout1::chop1::rocket1:

:please1:KILL THIS THREAD:please1:

:d1:

:a13::a13:

:coolit:

:BDH:

[EASt]

Can loud pipes save pie? Nothing worse than pie with stale crust.

[Bones]

Can loud pipes save pie? Nothing worse than pie with stale crust.

Some people argue they can save your bacon, but I'm not so sure. Besides, bacon is for eating, not saving.

[EASt]

Some people argue they can save your bacon, but I'm not so sure. Besides, bacon is for eating, not saving.

Not entirely. I find that the odor of a bit of bacon, applied delicately to the underarms, can be an effective, pleasant deodorant.

But I'm not sure that's ever saved my life. I don't think it's ever won me a date, either.

I'm convinced, though, that pie has saved my life before.

[Bones]

Not entirely. I find that the odor of a bit of bacon, applied delicately to the underarms, can be an effective, pleasant deodorant.

But I'm not sure that's ever saved my life. I don't think it's ever won me a date, either.

I'm convinced, though, that pie has saved my life before.

Pie on a date...good date. :rolleyes:

[pretbek]

Can loud pipes save pie?

Hmmm, pi.

[patiodadio]

I was sitting at an outdoor cafe when a group of folks riding that famous American brand was leaving..... They really put on a show, the leader making a winding motion with his arm and finger pointing up.....They started their LOUD machines, revving them up and making quite a scene. I noticed other people watching (non riders) some were making faces and others were amused while others looked amazed..... I could see that these riders were into a completely different part of motorcycling that I am..... They all had the same gear....Tee shirts with a famous brand dealers they visited....some had leather vests.... gloves with no fingers.....a lot had leather pants.... do rags...... sun glasses....all of them looked very much the same.....and with all the bikes looking and sounding the same. I got the feeling that they had something very different going on than my perspective on motorcycling. Is this good or bad ? I don't know ....I do know its not for me. Loud pipes are for the race track:)

[EASt]

Hmmm, pi.

I don't know that pi needs saving.

I'm not a mathematician, or even remotely smart, but I always thought that pi was endless; it lived forever. So, if it's endless, I could say it's immortal. If it's immortal, loud pipes can't save it because it can't die in the first place.

PIE, on the other hand... should be saved at all costs. Never let pie expire.

[st1300r]

I aggree with that 22/7ths %.
And pi are square if its a cheesecake.:rolleyes:

I don't know that pi needs saving.

I'm not a mathematician, or even remotely smart, but I always thought that pi was endless; it lived forever. So, if it's endless, I could say it's immortal. If it's immortal, loud pipes can't save it because it can't die in the first place.

PIE, on the other hand... should be saved at all costs. Never let pie expire.

[trek2120]

Loud pipes aren't nearly as effective as good riding skills. A co-worker came in to work a few weeks ago, fuming about getting run off the road. I quietly let him explain what happened. Essentially, he positioned himself in the drivers blind spot and stayed there. He wasn't very happy with me when I pointed out that it was his own fault. As Mr. Miagi in the original Karate Kid movie said, "The best way no get hit is not be there".

In my mind, it's not the other guy's responsibility not to hit me, it's my responsibility not to allow him to have the opportunity!

[bnason]

NO ...... I have worked wrecks were people have told me that they didn't see that F-350 dually coming down the road, :confused: and pulled out in front of them. People just get in there own little world, and don't look. I was in a M/C shop the other day. This H/D guy just had them put on a set of loud pipes. The bike rider fired up his H/D, reved it up a few times and said, "wow... that sounds great." And then he ask me how it sounded to me. I told him " That I wouldn't be behind him going down the road." :rolleyes: He just looked at me, smiled and said that ... "you'll have to get by me first!" :hun1: :please1: ... Before I could answer him, the shop owner told him that was ... "my Black ST1300 out there, and that wouldn't be a problem for me to do that" :roll: ... The gentleman then just responded with a ... "OH" ... :rain1: and didn't have anything else to say. I like a little rumble myself, but not to the point you have ever one in the sub-division know that you are there. Loud pipes make people upset. :mad: Mostly H/D people like LOUD PIPES so poeple will notice them... "LOOK AT ME I AM RIDING A H/D". :nanner1: Do loud pipes make your bike fast ... NO ... :rocket1: Most fast bikes are not loud.

[EASt]

I aggree with that 22/7ths %.
And pi are square if its a cheesecake.:rolleyes:

Not sure I can have a square of pi. I prefer my pie cut into a more traditional "wedge" shape. I start at the pointy end, and as I eat my way to the outer crust, it seems like I get more and more pie, since it's wider and wider. Then, I get to the outer, buttery crust... now that's a life saver.

[Gamecock]

I believe loud pipes are just another element that fits what a lot of cruiser riders want out of motorcycling. What they want out of motorcycling, if they are honest, is not the thrill and enjoyment of riding motorcycles. They are all about being known as a motorcycle owner and rider. Its the same reason, I believe, that most cruiser riders here in SC do not wear helmets, and its the same reason most of them wear tons of clothes with their motorcycle's brand plastered all over it.

Lets say you and your gall are riding to the steakhouse on Saturday night. Your after-market loud pipes make everyone outside the steakhouse stop and look to see who's coming. When they turn and look, they don't see some anonymous rider in a full face helmet, they see you, Billy Bob, with your gall on the back of your new bike. And for those folks who were already seated in the steakhouse that didn't see you roll in, you and your gall have jackets, t-shirts, belts, and boots that will make it obvious that you are a "biker."

By contrast, when my wife and I ride the ST to the steakhouse on Saturday night, nobody hears us coming from a quarter mile away. The only heads that turn when we roll into the parking lot are those that are in our proximity. And when they turn to look at us, they see two anonymous riders wearing full-face helmets. And after locking or helmets and Joe Rocket jackets to the bike or in the side bags, we look pretty much like normal restaurant patrons who happen to be wearing boots. But we ride because we enjoy the ride - not because we want all our friends to see us riding.

[FGrella]

IMHO, YES! IT'S MY LIFE. I guess I'm not talking about straight pipes. Just something louder than a sewing machine. I do wear safety gear when I ride. Emergency vehicles are equipped with lights AND noise makers! Wonder why...... I look for the sound when I hear one. I don't say to myself, I wish firetrucks weren't so loud! When (not that it happens) I get pulled over, The police car has a siren. Wonder why? TO GET PEOPLES ATTENTION! I really do believe that we need all the help we can get. Some people pray before getting on a bike. Does that help? Don't know. What could it hurt. Maybe headlight modulators bother some people...... I could go on but.....

Sink

I work at a hospital I talk to the EMS, Police and Fire guys all the time and guess what, they still get cut off, turned in front of and ignored. A couple of them told me the lights and siren actually draw people into their path. See the You Tube video of the cop on the highway giving out a ticket getting hit with his lights on. I don't buy the loud pipes argument all they do is piss people off.

[st1300r]

The benefit to a square pi is that it can more easily be cut in half.
Then you can eat one half and more easily cut the remainder in half.
This can also be more easily cut in half....
In theory, you can have ever living pi.



Not sure I can have a square of pi. I prefer my pie cut into a more traditional "wedge" shape. I start at the pointy end, and as I eat my way to the outer crust, it seems like I get more and more pie, since it's wider and wider. Then, I get to the outer, buttery crust... now that's a life saver.

[xrated]

When I clicked on this I didn't realize that it was 41 pages long........so far. So, I guess that what I have to say is that I don't necessarily believe that loud pipes save lives, but I sure enjoy that sound (as long as it isn't obnoxious) on my 1000RR and my 600RR.

I saw a shirt not long ago that said something on the order of....
"If loud pipes save lives, just think what learning to ride would do for ya"

I see a lot of cruisers (Harley, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki) and every other brand known to man, come through Deals Gap every weekend (I live 18 miles from Tabcat bridge) and many, but not all, of the guys with the loudest pipes are the ones that are the worst riders. I can't tell you how many have crashed or run off of the mountain before they even make it to the overlook.....2 1/2 miles into it.

[dond]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/LoudPipesSaveLives.jpg

[sirepair]

WHAT?!? I can't hear ya over all the noise!

(It's EasyRider Rodeo weekend here in town....)

[Bones]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/LoudPipesSaveLives.jpg

What, no helmet? :rolleyes:

My sister-in-law plays the pipes. A couple years ago on July 4th she stood at dusk at the end of the dock at her lake house and played America the Beautiful. When she was done we heard applause from all points on the lake, and a few boats swung by her end of the lake to say "thanks."

Loud pipes, indeed!

[pretbek]

My sister-in-law plays the pipes. A couple years ago on July 4th she stood at dusk at the end of the dock at her lake house and played America the Beautiful. When she was done we heard applause from all points on the lake, and a few boats swung by her end of the lake to say "thanks."

Loud pipes, indeed!

Hee hee. I am not sentimental by any stretch of the imagination, but after "applause from all points of on the lake" I got goosebumps running down my back. Unexpected, just like the applause. :)

[joweb94]

Defensive driving saves lives. I leave it to the person affected to determine if loud pipes is offensive or defensive.

[George]

Defensive driving saves lives. I leave it to the person affected to determine if loud pipes is offensive or defensive.

"The best defense is a good offense."

...and I can be very offensive! :D

[sherob]

Denver is supposed to have a "noise ordinance". I was having coffee early Sunday morning and was talking to one of Denver's finest as the loudest vtwin ever, went by...you could still here it 5 minutes later after it went by.

I asked him about Denver's ordinance enforcement... "you can't enforce it. It costs to much to equip all the patrol's with meters. Besides, they believe it's a defense feature". I started to laugh... thanks for the conversation. :cool:

[BigTom]

Quote by Sherob
I asked him about Denver's ordinance enforcement... "you can't enforce it. It costs to much to equip all the patrol's with meters. Besides, they believe it's a defense feature". I started to laugh... thanks for the conversation.

I believe that speed around 20mph over the posted limit is defensive in nature. You think that'll work?

[wheeliedude03]

kingprawnokay and others that think that load pipes saves lives are totally clueless! My brother is a firefighter/paramedic and with a sieren that puts out 135db, he claims he has drivers never even hear him comming. Todays cars are incredibly quiet and with awsome sound systems. If you ride with loud pipes and think that that will save your life cuz the driver will hear you, you'll end up in an accident soon enough! Drive like the cages don't see you or hear you... and you'll live to ride again!
JB- southern ca