Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?

[kingprawnokay]

Okay, so I'm going to shake things up again by introducing a topic that will undoubtedly spark a debate. How do you feel about loud pipes? Do they alert traffic to the presence of a motorcycle and therefore limit the number of accidents? Links to pertinent research is welcome.

I bought my 2Bros for three reasons.
1.) Replacing 1 STock pipe was more expensive than buying two aftermarket pipes.
2.) 16lb. weight reduction.
3.) STock pipes/engine was too quiet and people often didn't realize I was there.

Some possible responses for Mellow to sort out into poll format (please):

Loud pipes definately save lives.
A little louder than STock is probably a good thing.
Loud pipes make me angry. They serve no purpose.

:03biker:

[Mellow]

Go ahead and add a poll... click the thread tools/add poll option...

This one shood be good..



Okay, so I'm going to shake things up again by introducing a topic that will undoubtedly spark a debate. How do you feel about loud pipes? Do they alert traffic to the presence of a motorcycle and therefore limit the number of accidents? Links to pertinent research is welcome.

I bought my 2Bros for three reasons.
1.) Replacing 1 STock pipe was more expensive than buying two aftermarket pipes.
2.) 16lb. weight reduction.
3.) STock pipes/engine was too quiet and people often didn't realize I was there.

Some possible responses for Mellow to sort out into poll format (please):

Loud pipes definately save lives.
A little louder than STock is probably a good thing.
Loud pipes make me angry. They serve no purpose.

:03biker:

[Burger]

Loud pipes serve no purpose other than to get motorcyclists a bad reputation. OK, by offering less resistance they maybe give you 1 or 2 horse power more, but when you already have over a 100 to play with, it's totally futile and negligable. :eek:

IMHO.

[kingprawnokay]

Thanks Mellow. Didn't know I had the power. Learn something new every day. :)

[sherob]

Yes I think loud pipes save lives... I'm not saying loud earth shattering pipes are being condoned... just loud enough to grab the attention of drivers around you. They hear you coming, they know you are there. I never, ever had anyone try to take my lane or cut me off on my Sabre with my RoadHouse 65's with baffles cut in half. They were not LOUD, they were loud enough to grab attention. I have however been cutoff, shared lanes without wanting to on my ST.

[tdeboeser]

I like the sound of some bikes with aftermarket pipes ( esp, sport twins ), BUT loud pipes will DO NOTHING TO SAVE YOU.

Tom de

[kingprawnokay]

This is obviously an emotional subject, so I'll try to word this delicately.
:)
I'm not sure about the "basic acoustics" to which you are refering, TC. Maybe you intended to say that the majority of the sound wave exits and radiates outward in the direction the pipes are pointing. The problem is, once the sound wave exits the pipes, it influences (through compression and rarefaction) the air in all directions due to reflective surfaces (e.g., pavement, buildings, other structures, other vehicles).

Your argument is partially correct, but are you saying that you've never been sitting in a car and heard a motorcycle coming toward you from behind?

BTW, I'm on your side to an extent. Really loud pipes (no baffles) are pretty annoying, especially at 2:00am, but IMHO reasonably louder pipes do alert drivers to the presence of motorcycles. Just one guy's view.
:03biker:

[Don-STOC237]

Every day someone posts, usually in passing, that their condo or apartment complex or gated community doesn't allow motorcycles except perhaps to go directly to and from their unit.

Try to take the famed 7 mile drive in Monteray CA on your bike. "No Motorcycles Allowed" on this great scenic road.

Idiots with loud pipes get run over every day by larger vehicles.

Loud pipes don't save lives.

Loud pipes lose rights.

[Killtimer]

The only thing loud pipes do is to force the soccer mom in her Escalade to turn up the volume on her cell phone or her stereo. Then she can't hear a damn thing inside her cocoon. Noise pollution is pollution......... Period

[sherob]

I repeat. Go take a basic course in acoustics. Your loud pipes face to the rear. The car ahead of your has his windows up, AC going , radio on full blast and most likely talking on his/her cell phone. They only hear you when you're next to them and you startle the hell out of them. You were lucky with your Sabre, had nothing to do with your pipes, but I'll bet your sure got some folks to hating motorcycles.

So you are going to tell me in all of your life you haven't heard a loud motorcycle until he passed you? You heard him long before he even came up on to you.

This is one of those oil, ABS, politics, religion debates that will go on forever. As far as me causing somebody to hate motorcycles... my bike wasn't even as loud as a stock HD unless I pulled the baffles... :rolleyes:

[dbst1300]

LESS SOUND = MORE GROUND

The same will eventually apply to streetriding.

[GRN]

Loud pipes are just loud...

Good sense (see and be seen, all gear all the time), and good choices about how you ride, where, when and in what conditions saves lives. Loud pipes may let somebody know you're there, but until they SEE where it doesn't do much good. Being seen, and seeing that you are seen while maintaining reasonable driving habits for the environment are the real battle of life and limb IMO. Louder than stock, sure... but a lot of the wicked loud ones spend more time just blatting about for no good reason causing polution than they do saving anything. There should be a measured Db level limit, no reason to be so loud that it causes those around to loose their concentration, that's just dangerous.

[sherob]

If I see a motorcyclist needing help by the side of the rode and his bike has stright pipes. I pass him by. I HATE them.

If I see a rider needing some help, I'll stop no matter what he is riding... he could be on a Vespa :rolleyes: If you were on the side of the road out in BFE I'm sure you would accept the assistance of a straight piped rider wouldn't you?

I can see this is going to be a very emotional poll... :eek:

[sherob]

Louder than stock, sure... but a lot of the wicked loud ones spend more time just blatting about for no good reason causing polution than they do saving anything. There should be a measured Db level limit, no reason to be so loud that it causes those around to loose their concentration, that's just dangerous.

I agree with this! :)

[Jeff F]

This is one of those oil, ABS, politics, religion debates that will go on forever.

I agree.

Lets have a poll to decide on the most useless poll. :rolleyes:

[GRN]

If I see a rider needing some help, I'll stop no matter what he is riding... he could be on a Vespa :rolleyes: If you were on the side of the road out in BFE I'm sure you would accept the assistance of a straight piped rider wouldn't you?

I can see this is going to be a very emotional poll... :eek:

I'm with you man... 2 wheels is 2 wheels, and there is a certain level of commonality and respect that I believe in holding regardless of some of the choices others make. I hate loud pipes, but I don't hate other people... the pipes aren't the ones in trouble.

[jholder]

One of the things that always gets me abouot the "Loud pipes save lives" argument is almost inevitably the argument is put forth by someone that rides in all dark gear, black leather, etc. If their concern was safety and that was why the pipes were installed wouldn't they also be concerned with conspicuity and wear something more visible. The statement that "Loud pipes save lives" is just a simplified rationalization to try and justify something that most of them want because they think it sounds cool.

My opinion, yes the louder pipes *may in some cases* alert a driver to the riders presence earlier. The problem is when the sound starts bouncing off building and things as someone mentioned earlier, then it makes it difficult to determine where exactly the sound is coming from. And I think we all know that most drivers are not going to stop and wait to see where the motorcycle is before moving.

I think people should be honest with themselves that safety is not why they put louder pipes on their bikes. They do it for the perceived *cool factor*.

Jim Holder

P.S. Hmmmm, might be interesting to do some testiing with bikes and when drivers can hear them with stereo on, etc. I'll put that on my to do list...

[Burger]

When you hear a police, fire or ambulance siren your next reaction is to look for it and see if you need to pull out of the way right? But you only do this because of what it is and what you're educated to recognise the noise as. Those sirens are facing front and are pitched to be noticeable.

If your loud pipes could be heard above all other noises and from sufficient distance to warn of your presence, which they're not, no one would look to see where you are, they'd just think it was another idiot on a motorcycle if they thought anything at all then continue with the manouvre they'd already started.

As motorcyclists we have as much right to be on the roads as anyone else. All other road users should be looking out for us as much as anything else. If they're not, or you're in their blind spots loud pipes are going to achieve diddly squat. The fact is that on a motorcycle you are in one of the most vulnerable groups on the roads and you should ride as such.

The only thing that saves lives on motorcycles is to make yourself as visible as possible and then ride as though no other road user can see you. No matter where you are or what manouvre you're pulling, always be ready to take evasive action. If you're riding past a queue of traffic in another lane, expect someone to pull into your path - don't be surprised when they do... believe they are going to and adjust your speed and road position accordingly. Even then, it's no guarantee someone won't get you but you'll stand a much better chance than fitting loud pipes and believing that makes you safer.

Just to be clear on my position, I don't think there's anything wrong with aftermarket pipes that give your bike a slightly sportier, legal roar, with their baffles in, but that wasn't the question of course.

Regards,

[colin]

I'm going to ride without any pipes, then i will be heard

[GRN]

I'm going to ride without any pipes, then i will be heard

A deep and highly conceptual perspective... a perfect first post from a new member... :nuts1:

[John Anthony]

Realy loud pipes do nothing for me. I don't buy the safety argument and I've got better things to spend my money on. I wouldn't mind getting away from the Singer sound of the stock ST mufflers, but I'm not looking for something offensive.

Every mod on my ST has functional value. I've added things that have improved comfort and driveability. IMO, loud pipes offer no such return so any kind of muffler upgrade is low on the list.

John

[sokay]

Firstly, I'm not going to write the emotive name for what I am describing. That said, generally speaking, anyone who "costs" other people who actually owe him/her nothing in the given situation, whether it is loud pipes, annoying (i.e.e blinking or too bright) headlights, or even unusual vehicle control behavior, I say, anyone who does these things in order to feel or even be more safe, fits into a certain category of people, the emotive name of which I am not going so say. So there. :)

[kingprawnokay]

I agree.

Lets have a poll to decide on the most useless poll. :rolleyes:

Touche. I hope the debate does go on forever. I believe this to be a topic of ubiquitous and constant concern in relation to the way the public view motorcyclists and, subsequently, view motorcyclist's rights. Not talking about it won't make it go away. Maybe we'll all learn something from discussion. Let's have a poll to determine the most useless reponses. ;) ;)

:03biker:

[CaST]

Its funny you should ask. All the folks that ride Harley's wear ear protection. Go ahead and get loud pipes then put cotton in your ears and then see how many times you can't hear what is going on around you and get nearly killed.

[kingprawnokay]

Its funny you should ask. All the folks that ride Harley's where ear protection. Go ahead and get loud pipes then put cotton in your ears and then see how many times you can't hear what is going on around you and get nearly killed.

Sorry to hijack the thread I started, but coming from a background in audiology, all motorcyclists should wear ear protection all the time. I'm with the Harley guys on this one. :eek:

[CaST]

Sorry to hijack the thread I started, but coming from a background in audiology, all motorcyclists should wear ear protection all the time. I'm with the Harley guys on this one. :eek:

Kevin you are only 27, when you get to be my age after years of rock and roll, you don't need any more noise deadening implements unless the noise is so annoying like loud pipes and you are riding for 1000 miles. I need my ears open and free of ear plugs. :D

[kingprawnokay]

I "hear" ya. Pun intended. :)

[Jeff F]

Touche. I hope the debate does go on forever. I believe this to be a topic of ubiquitous and constant concern in relation to the way the public view motorcyclists and, subsequently, view motorcyclist's rights. Not talking about it won't make it go away. Maybe we'll all learn something from discussion. Let's have a poll to determine the most useless reponses. ;) ;)

:03biker:

Kevin, you're right. It's not my place to squash debate. How rude of me. Sorry.

The point I was agreeing with could be best descibed as - "Oh no not again!!"

... in other words, this is a topic that has been beaten to death forever on every board I've ever visited and not just street bikes ... Perfomance cars, dirt bikes, ATVs, boats w/ thru-hull exhausts etc.

Like tires, oil, filters, politics and religion its a topic that's is vague, personal and subjective. I've noticed that more often than not bad feelings are the result. I assume that this is the reason some of these topics are banned on some forums

Talk amongst yourselves

[kingprawnokay]

Good posts by all, especially the "no pipes" alternative. :D

Jeff, no hard feelings. I'm glad you expressed how you feel. I'm sure a lot of people are rolling thier eyes at this poll and not saying anything, but, again, this issue affects our rights. Oil, abs, etc. do not.

:03biker:

[Putt]

If I want loud, I'll tow a 105 behind my '1300..... THAT is loud...
Keeps the tailgaters at bay too!!


Putt...

[John Anthony]

Sorry to hijack the thread I started, but coming from a background in audiology, all motorcyclists should wear ear protection all the time. I'm with the Harley guys on this one. :eek:
Couldn't agree more with you. And based on my experience, invest in getting a set that's custom molded for you. Cost me $100 from my HMO. Don't leave home without them.

John

[georgeorge]

If you want to get someone's attention, don't give it the gas :chop1:to make louder exhaust sounds!!!! That's just dumb. People who hear a loud Harley know that it could be anywhere within a half-mile from them because it's so loud so why look. As bikers ourselves I assume we all look, but most are not bikers and wouldn't care to turn their heads just to see the bike.
Beep your horn. As wimpy as it may sound, at least when a cager hears a horn they think to look at why they are hearing a horn. :shout1: That's just my .03 cents (inflation again)

[805gregg]

No one hears the stock horn, I've got two brothers exhaust and I love them, when lane splitting a little blast will get the cars attention.

[Ayac]

I agree that loud pipes can save somebody from an accident because they got more attention. If it is loud enough, it is easy to find where the noise comes from. They also sound cool, giving the impression that we are tough enough to have such a bad *** machine between our legs :) I do not think that is anything wrong with that, but that is only one side of the coin.
I do not want to be the neighbour who has to wake up at 3 am because my fella' just come home from a party on his bike.

The other flip side that I think nobody mentioned here is the damage that can do to your hearing. I have a few friends who have loud pipes and I really have to speak up to them so they hear it. It is even worse when they do not wear a helmet so there is nothing in the way of sound to protect them. Just imagine riding a half a day, a couple of weeks in such noise level that you get in a concert. Noone can survive that without hearing damage.

The other thing is a personal taste issue. I have never seen any pipes that would look as cool as the stock muffler on an ST1300.

If you want to get attention, use your horns, but not the stock one. It is sad to say, but that is a piece of crap. I do not understand the manufacturers why do they do such a sloppy job on this? Trucks can have big horns even though everybody sees them, but they put a toy on a bike??
I just built in a mini air-horn instead of the stock buzzer, that blasts around 115 Db (about $45 on Ebay). It was very hard to squeeze all that in but it worth the effort, it already saved me in dangerous situations.

[Bones]

Since human beings take in something over 90% of their sensory information visually, the most effective way to improve your odds in traffic is to be more visually conspicuous. Lights, reflectors, and stand-out colors make you visible. So does smart riding, such as not positioning yourself in a cager's blind spot.

You're probably better off wearing a crossing guard's vest than knocking out baffles. Loud pipes saving lives is a fallacy. They're obnoxious, nothing more.

[sherob]

Loud booming music... where is it coming from... you look, obnoxious, but you looked. Loud exhaust on car or truck revving... you looked. Car or truck laying rubber, chirping the tires... you looked. Loud obnoxious pipes that piss you off so much you could scream... where are they coming from... you look.

The fact is you looked... you saw... you are aware.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.... plunk.

[Don-STOC237]

Loud booming music... where is it coming from... you look, obnoxious, but you looked. Loud exhaust on car or truck revving... you looked. Car or truck laying rubber, chirping the tires... you looked. Loud obnoxious pipes that piss you off so much you could scream... where are they coming from... you look.

The fact is you looked... you saw... you are aware.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.... plunk.

Another possible scenario to entertain the fishermen...

I'm a BDC, happily ensconsed in my Caddy Escalade, driving slow but straight down the left lane of the interstate, talking on my cellphone. I suddenly hear a set of loud obnoxious pipes, passing me on the right because I'm too self-absorbed to be driving in the right lane where I should be. Startled out of my reverie, I look around suddenly to find the noise. As I look to the right, I of course steer my nice shiny Caddy to the right, swerving into the right lane and cutting off and hitting the moron with the loud pipes just going through my blind spot, happily content that his loud pipes will save his life. Oh oh, I guess loud pipes didn't save a life, they cost a life...

[jacketsfan]

So you are going to tell me in all of your life you haven't heard a loud motorcycle until he passed you? You heard him long before he even came up on to you.

This is one of those oil, ABS, politics, religion debates that will go on forever. As far as me causing somebody to hate motorcycles... my bike wasn't even as loud as a stock HD unless I pulled the baffles... :rolleyes:
The Hurt report addresses this very issue, and one of the authors of the report even put out a white paper re-stating that noise does not alert drivers to your presence in any appreciable way, and in fact does more to irritate other people than anything else. Until I read both documents, I had been on the fence. But now I'm convinced.

[sherob]

I'm a BDC, happily ensconsed in my Caddy Escalade, driving slow but straight down the left lane of the interstate, talking on my cellphone. I suddenly hear a set of loud obnoxious pipes, passing me on the right because I'm too self-absorbed to be driving in the right lane where I should be. Startled out of my reverie, I look around suddenly to find the noise. As I look to the right, I of course steer my nice shiny Caddy to the right, swerving into the right lane and cutting off and hitting the moron with the loud pipes just going through my blind spot, happily content that his loud pipes will save his life. Oh oh, I guess loud pipes didn't save a life, they cost a life...

If the guy having the loud pipes wasn't a total self centered look at me I'm really cool moron and had gear on, knew how to stop a bike, knew how to do evasive maneuvers... maybe ABS :D ... probably nothing more than a PO'ed biker.

Somebody has to play the Devils Advocate ;)

[sherob]

Ah hah! :bow1:

This would have been a totally boring poll if nobody would have chosen the Dark Side :cool: It has been a very enlightening, emotional, educational, thoughtful thread.

I detest loud pipes... If I loved loud pipes, why would I be riding my wonderful ST? I will be buying Staintunes... they are a little louder than stock, but not what we are talking about here. ;)

[AZST]

Thought about this for awhile.

My experience when driving a car usually is that I SEE the bike/biker first. I rarely hear the bike first. By the time the bike is within my vicinity I am already aware that they are there.

Admittedly, I think driving my car near a bike is just as distracting to me because I am checking out what type of ride, gear, farkles, chick on the back, etc.

Save lives? I don't buy it. Also, I have seen many motorcycle cases at the job and see no disparity between numbers of quieter bikes vs. loud bikes. Most causes of bike crashes on the street seem to be inattention-- meaning: people that should have SEEN the biker, didn't. No scientific data here, just my observations.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
STOC# 5197
:04biker:

[RxCritical]

Based on my completely unscientific survey of the number of cagers that do not notice me when I am behind them with Lights flashing and sirens wailing, let alone get out of my way as required (I'm sure IslandCop can back this up) I would bet that loud pipes do absolutely nothing to enhance your noticeablity.

But that's just my experiance.
Paul

[Tor]

Up on the soap :mad: :


Its all about being cooool, folks. Just like not wearing any gear, or a helmet. It's not "cool", man :chop1: . Ever seen a Harley rider with a fullface? No other Harley rider wears one, so you'll never see a Harley rider wearing one. So to fit in, use loud pipes. I recon they'll reconsider after a good spill when they try to make a sizeable roadrash "cool", or better, a "split open speculator", due to no helmet use. Yeah, that'll be "cool". If a few :chop1: riders started to wear a nasty crock o dried dogsh.. on a necklace, I guarantee,, ya'll, before long, you will see them for sale at rallies.

Off the soap :D ,,,,

[Medicine Bear]

Up on the soap :mad: :


If a few :chop1: riders started to wear a nasty crock o dried dogsh.. on a necklace, I guarantee,, ya'll, before long, you will see them for sale at rallies.

Off the soap :D ,,,,
Of course, you would have a choice - the crock without the HD logo or the one with...at twice the price. ;)

Fred :03biker:

[dond]

People walk/drive right into the path of trains every day.

shrug

[Bones]

People walk/drive right into the path of trains every day.

Clearly, we need to put straight pipes on trains. Imagine the exhaust noise from a big old General Electric diesel! Think of the Doppler Effect without baffles! But what I'd really like to see (and hear) is how they work on electric trains.

:rolleyes:

[kingprawnokay]

Make sure the straight pipes on the train face forward!
:03biker:

[sherob]

Could you imagine what that train would look like with a few Cobra straight pipes coming out the front... :eek: You'ld have a name on the side like "Vlad the Impaler" on it :rolleyes:

[headdoc427]

Based on my own "cage" experience, I see emergency vehicles long before I hear them. Same with a bike, I'll notice headlights, or a bright clothing before I hear even the loudest pipes.

[BikemanKZ]

When I was the business manager and the H.O.G. Chapter Director in a Harley store, and someone would tell me that loud pipes save lives, I would reply with, "So do helmets." and that would usually shut them up.
KZ

[STony G]

When I was the business manager and the H.O.G. Chapter Director in a Harley store, and someone would tell me that loud pipes save lives, I would reply with, "So do helmets." and that would usually shut them up.
KZ

I wish it was that easy. One guy went on and on about load pipes and being safe...the weird thing he was yelling :eek: and I was right in front of him. What are you going to do :rolleyes:

[Ayac]

That is what I am saying... I wonder why he was yelling... hmmmmmm...

[Bones]

That is what I am saying... I wonder why he was yelling... hmmmmmm...

He wanted to make sure you heard him. You know, talking loud always gets your point across more completely...

[Ayac]

Yeah, and he made sure he can hear his own voice... yells if it does not work otherways. I like my ST being quiet, it roars enough loud around 6-7k...

[slammr]

Burger is right on; you have to ride as if you are invisible.

Another point: Contrary to popular belief, all straight pipes do not "increase" horsepower and can actually cause horsepower to decrease. This is because some drag pipes will not create the sound effect necessary to maintain proper vacuum pressure required to "pull" gases from the cylinders most efficiently.

[1TallTXn]

I don't like loud pipes. I am not saying that I don't like to hear what the bike is doing, but it doesn't have to be heard for 3 miles at idle :eek:

My car has knock-off FlowMasters on it and it sounds Good! but its not annoyingly loud.

I generally see the bike before i hear it (squids doing wheelies between traffic at 100+ excluded)

If you want loud pipes on your ride, fine, but please don't make me hear it forever, thats in excess and just plain annoying

[1TallTXn]

THREAD HIJACK

My VFR has a V4 and so does the ST, how different do they sound? I love the sound my VFR makes.

/THREAD HIJACK

[alnleslie]

IMHO Unless the cagers are "threatened" in some way, (like a semi coming at them) they won't pay any attention anyway. The excess noise (Very Loud) just draws the same attention as the sport-bike rider in shorts, t-shirt and flip-flops, riding a wheelie between traffic lanes. Not a good advertisement for our sport.

I do agree that most aftermarket pipes are cheaper, lighter, and can even sound better than stock, although the latter is usually not the case. The manufacturers don't make them heavy or quiet on purpose, it's the "federally mandated" assistance you get, like air bags. Keep the rubber side down...

[newbornst1300]

No one hears the stock horn, I've got two brothers exhaust and I love them, when lane splitting a little blast will get the cars attention.
Spend your money on a decent horn and some aux lighting and you will be heard on demand and more noticable.
You will also save some money
Chris :03biker:

[CruisingDog]

Using a headlight modulator and your turn signals are the things that get you noticed the most. I also run with hi-beam durning the daytime!

[the_suspector]

A friend at work had purchased a new Independence motorcycle with straight pipes about 1 1/2 feet long. We went for a lunchtime ride and after 5 minutes, I could no longer ride staggered next to him! His pipes were SOO loud that it literally hurt my ears! Personally, I don't think that loud pipes save anything, but I know they do piss people off. :mad:

[curmudgeon]

When confronted with this BS statement I usually come back with:
"If your safety is so important why are you wearing that worthless helmet or no helmet."

Also they only say that to justify having loud pipes. I don't think it's necessary to justify what I do by laying some BS on anybody. The only justification I need to do anything is to say I like it, and I want it. If you don't like it BITE ME.

We're not going to change their minds about this either. I think the best way to deal with it is to try and get the local police to enforce laws already on the books. In Washington state the law states "It is unlawful to modify an exhaust system in any way that would increase noise." That makes it unnecessary to measure DB levels. Of course the police don't even attempt to enforce this law.

A fellow I worked with many years thinks it's funny to ride his open pipe Harley down the street and set off car alarms. This coming from an otherwise good guy and law abiding citizen. Very strange phenomenon.

Phil

[Sink]

Don't we need all the help we can get to be safe? Do loud pipes save lives? Maybe they do in some cases. Maybe you would be noticed that one time that it did save your life. Hmmm. Would that be worth it? Do loud horns save lives? I see a lot of horn mods out there!
My 2 cents is I need all the help I can get!
Sink

[jholder]

Don't we need all the help we can get to be safe? Do loud pipes save lives? Maybe they do in some cases. Maybe you would be noticed that one time that it did save your life. Hmmm. Would that be worth it? Do loud horns save lives? I see a lot of horn mods out there!
My 2 cents is I need all the help I can get!
Sink

A very poor comparison Sink. Loud horns affect only the person that starts to change lanes into you, and those in the immediate vicinity, and only for a short period of time. Loud pipes affect everyone along every street that the rider goes down. Interrupting conversations, waking babies and irritating non-riders who then get a bad feeling about motorcyclists in general.

Is the off chance that they MIGHT in some rare cases save a life worth turning people against us? Besides if the rider is going down the street with loud pipes, a novelty helmet and dressed in black, does anyone REALLY believe that the loud pipes are there for a perceived safety benefit? If safety was the issue then the rider would be wearing a full helmet, a padded racing suit in neon yellow with relfectors all over it.

[sherob]

Besides if the rider is going down the street with loud pipes, a novelty helmet and dressed in black, does anyone REALLY believe that the loud pipes are there for a perceived safety benefit? If safety was the issue then the rider would be wearing a full helmet, a padded racing suit in neon yellow with relfectors all over it.

I have seen loud piped bikes with riders wearing fullface helmets ( black of course :p: ), all leather riding gear.

[sherob]

When's the Fall SS1k so I can test my Cobra slash cuts on my :biker: ? :D

[sherob]

Let me check the calendar... pit *****... has a ring to it :D

[sherob]

Oni-Con anime convention for the oldest that weekend :rolleyes: ... nothing like hanging around kids dressed up as cartoon characters :eek:

[Sink]

Is the off chance that they MIGHT in some rare cases save a life worth turning people against us? Besides if the rider is going down the street with loud pipes, a novelty helmet and dressed in black, does anyone REALLY believe that the loud pipes are there for a perceived safety benefit? If safety was the issue then the rider would be wearing a full helmet, a padded racing suit in neon yellow with relfectors all over it.

IMHO, YES! IT'S MY LIFE. I guess I'm not talking about straight pipes. Just something louder than a sewing machine. I do wear safety gear when I ride. Emergency vehicles are equipped with lights AND noise makers! Wonder why...... I look for the sound when I hear one. I don't say to myself, I wish firetrucks weren't so loud! When (not that it happens) I get pulled over, The police car has a siren. Wonder why? TO GET PEOPLES ATTENTION! I really do believe that we need all the help we can get. Some people pray before getting on a bike. Does that help? Don't know. What could it hurt. Maybe headlight modulators bother some people...... I could go on but.....

Sink

[jholder]

If I were convinced it had a safety benefit, and it outweighed the animosity it generates then I would be ok with it. I just see guys with no safety gear with loud pipes saying they have them for safety. If they want them because they think they're cool, then say so. Don't try and cover it up with a weak, unproven excuse. If the argument were coming from someone that wears safety gear and seems otherwise interested in safety then it sounds much more honest, than from someone wearing a novelty helmet and no other safety equipment.

We'll just have to agree to disagree...

Ride safe,

[jackpine savage]

Most MC deaths are caused by accidents such as this one where someone makes a left turn in front of an oncoming motorcycle. Loud pipes wouldn't help.

Ya gotta love the sewing machine sound. ;)

[jacketsfan]

Ya gotta love the sewing machine sound. ;)
I wonder if anyone has had S I N G E R airbrushed on their tank? That would be hilarious! :p:

[CruisingDog]

In all due repects to the argument, I have seen V-Twin riders with loud pipes splitting traffic. The loud pipes are like Moses parting the Red Sea! No ****! I see this phenomena quite often.

Does it save lives, possibly.
Is it annoying, yes.
Does it help get motorcyclists noticed, you bet.

It's a bit like Hollywood. Any publicity is good publicity. Especially when your life may be on the line.

I do however think there should be a limit on the dB's allowed by custom pipes. 100 dBA is plenty enough.

My attitude: Stay in front. You'll be out of earshot, and you've got the right bike to do it!!

[Wolfclan]

I own an ACE 750 as well and people IMO generally heared me before they saw me. In stop and go traffic on the hwy people would try to cut over into the lane I was in or into me and I would just clutch in and throttle up giving a monster rumble and they would stop in thier tracks. I would generally let them over after they realized I was there and thier had safe clearance to get by. My 2 cents.

[naturally wired]

Sometimes..............On the freeway at blue st speeds I would say no..but in the stop and goes in the summer time its a big yes.....noticed this because my first season riding was spent with stock pipes .where most people thought I was riding a scooter, then I went with staintunes for my second riding season ...people now knew it was a motorcycle and in this area of the country loud sport bikes are known to do crazy things :eek: on the road ,so I think this makes people pay more attention(maybe not in a possitive way, but staying alive is the goul right!!!!!) :cool:

[GRN]

It was a long time ago... like 20 years, there was a report released by one of the armed branches about the effects of environmental noise levels on vision... more specifically on the effects of fighter jet noise on pilots in this regard (focus, depth perception, percieved track of other moving objects).

I don't remember the details of the cause/effect conclusions, just that they were pretty profound, and could be related to everyday life... bikes, cars, etc... enough so that I started turning down the stereo when engaging in spirited driving, and yes, I can tell the difference when I do... same as when I wear ear plugs on the bike.

[Sink]

If I were convinced it had a safety benefit, and it outweighed the animosity it generates then I would be ok with it. I just see guys with no safety gear with loud pipes saying they have them for safety. If they want them because they think they're cool, then say so. Don't try and cover it up with a weak, unproven excuse. If the argument were coming from someone that wears safety gear and seems otherwise interested in safety then it sounds much more honest, than from someone wearing a novelty helmet and no other safety equipment.

We'll just have to agree to disagree...

Ride safe,

I don't own a novelty helmet and I wear safety gear. Yes it sounds cool. No it's not proven. Tell me, how many people turn their heads to look at something they CAN'T hear? A weak unproven excuse would be no one ever looks at my bike when I'm coming. I have baffles in and it isn't that loud, but it's louder than a stock bike. I am convinced that anything that might help is worth it. When I get an ST, I will put louder pipes on it. I want to live just a little longer. For now, the V twin rumble is cool and people look, so it must be a good thing. I don't wake the neighbors. I know that my right wrist controls the noise level as well as the go part. I have set car alarms off without the baffles and I put them back in. 2 cents

[Bones]

(Step onto soap box)

For the sake of discussion, let's just say louder is better.

Shouldn't we install omni-directional fog horns on our bikes? What about bull horns that constantly stream a message "I am here, I am here, I am here"? Or perhaps we all should install ultra-high powered stereos that play ear-piercing random sound patterns whenever we ride? Or let's just mount amplified megaphone pipes right on the exhaust manifolds...yeah, that would be loud.

If these "louder is better" solutions aren't enough, what about our other senses? For the sake of discussion, let's not include the more than 90% of sensory information that humans take in visually, let's forget about how invisible motorcylists become when we wear the black uniform of the loud pipes crowd. Forget that. Shouldn't we cover our bikes in manure so motorists smell us coming? Shouldn't we mount long pointy probes on our bikes so motorists feel us coming? Shouldn't we install catapults that launch rotten fish so motorists taste us coming? ("I'm sorry officer, but I didn't taste him coming.")

More than 90% of sensory information is taken in visually. Being visible on a bike trumps being heard, smelled, felt or tasted. If you haven't taken measures to appeal to that 90+% but think loud pipes will save your ***, you're kidding yourself as you pollute the air with useless noise and put the rights of your fellow motorcyclists at risk.

(Step down from soapbox)

[Sink]

AND, Grey ST's are harder to see than red ones. I've never heard of anyone turning their head to see something they don't know is there.... Hmmm. I guess I don't have that sense. What makes you look at something? Scanning. Why do you turn your head? Have a feeling that something is there? I doubt it. You hear a gun shot, do you look? Or do you look for a gun in case someone shoots it? By the way, babies can sleep through most things. Noises don't usually wake them up. We used to put my daughter to sleep with the vacuum cleaner. Kinda sounds like my bike when it idles. (OK, maybe not)

[jholder]

I want to live just a little longer. For now, the V twin rumble is cool and people look, so it must be a good thing. I don't wake the neighbors. I know that my right wrist controls the noise level as well as the go part. I have set car alarms off without the baffles and I put them back in. 2 cents

Well we agree on the wanting to live just a little longer part. I usually wear a fluorescent yellow jacket with retroreflective striping all over it. People I pass may think I look like a goober but at least they see me to think it.

Sounds like your pipes are not the ones I think most people are even referring to. The ones I'm referring to rattle the windows of my house when the riders go down my street, and wake babies all over the neighborhood. I guess a definition of "loud" would have been in order for this thread?

Ride safe,

[Bones]

The ones I'm referring to rattle the windows of my house when the riders go down my street, and wake babies all over the neighborhood. I guess a definition of "loud" would have been in order for this thread?

How about defining it as prescribed by law? Under section 4.06 of the rules for motorcycle inspection in Massachusetts:

"Reject a motorcycle which has a muffler cut-out or by-pass of the baffle plates, screens or other original internal parts have been removed and not replaced. Unnecessary noise is herein defined as any noise which is louder than that emitted by the motorcycle with original manufacturer's muffler and exhaust system equipment.
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/inspect/540cmr4/sec406a.htm

Under the Mass. Registry of Motor Vehicles FAQ's, we find the following:
My motorcycle was failed for illegal pipes. What's legal?
Generally speaking, you must have a baffle in the exhaust system of a motorcycle. Straight pipes are illegal, and your motorcycle must meet certain noise requirements. For motorcycles manufactured before 1986, 102 decibels is the legal limit, 99 decibels for motorcycles manufactured after 1986.
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/faq/inspection.htm#7

The City of Brockton, Massachusetts has worked to ban motorcycles outright because of noise. (Thank the AMA for coming to the support of motorcyclists there.) The condo association at my mother's place in Florida and many condos near where I live do not permit any motorcycles because of noise. You can't ride any motorcycle through one of the most beautiful places on the Pacific coast in Monterey, California because of noise. There are even parking garages that forbid all motorcylces because of noise that can't escape an enclosed space. And so what if your motorcycle is factory quiet? Too bad because too many people running loud pipes are ruining things for the rest of us.

Yes, there are 49 states besides mine all with different laws, but I bet every one of them has something to say about pipes that "rattle the windows of my house when the riders go down my street, and wake babies all over the neighborhood."

In my neighborhood things got a lot quieter when the biker bar 2 miles down the road went out of business. We used to be able to tell when it was halftime and end of game for Monday Night Football by the "rolling thunder" that woke my kid and wife and dogs and sometimes me out of sound sleep.

Loud pipes are noise pollution. I've yet to read a persuasive argument in their favor.

[BentAero]

If loud pipes saved lives, wouldn't nearly every Gold Wing rider be dead or maimed by now?

Having said that, I have 2Bros pipes on my ST. I like the tone, but they are a little too loud for my taste when on the freeway. When blasting mountain twisties, I like them.

After switching to the 2bros, I noticed right away that when I pulled up next to a cage at a stop light, almost everytime they would turn and look at me. Same with slowly overtaking a cage on the freeway. With stock pipes, nowhere near as often.

I hope I don't sound like a hypocrite, but I find the "v-twins" with the obnoxious loud pipes to be very annoying. I used to live in an apartment with poor sound insulation next to a busy road. Rather than saving their lives, I could have shot some of them as they came off the stop light with their blaring pipes.

As far as saving my life because my pipes are louder, I sincerely doubt it.

[Blue STreak]

I like the rotting fish idea, though. If I could figure out a small enough way to launch them, and a way to keep ME from having to smell them, I'd tag at least one car a day for doing something really, really stupid.

[sherob]

I like the rotting fish idea, though. If I could figure out a small enough way to launch them, and a way to keep ME from having to smell them, I'd tag at least one car a day for doing something really, really stupid.

I think it should be squid... that way you could hit a "squid" as well :rolleyes: It would also remind people it's hockey season :D

[Bones]

http://www.detroitredwings.com/images/history/octopus2.jpg

Hmmm...must be one of those new squids launched by motorcycle. Funny, I didn't taste it coming.

[roadancer]

Loud pipes,,
I'm confused,,If loud pipes save lives, why don't they turn them around and face them fowards?????

Yes loud pipes DO save lives,,,they get all us banned from areas to ride.
No Bikes, no accidents, no @%$#!!!!!

What must it feel like if you own something that rattles all the windows in town only to get totally SMOKED by a STealth bike???

[naturally wired]

stock pipes make the bike sound like a scooter, maybe you should be riding something more appropriate for your age .....maybe a vespa... :eek:

[seiseman]

(Step onto soap box)

...constantly stream a message "I am here, I am here, I am here" ...

(Step down from soapbox)

Ahhh, Horton Hears a Who, by Dr Suess. ;)

[CruisingDog]

It was a long time ago... like 20 years, there was a report released by one of the armed branches about the effects of environmental noise levels on vision... more specifically on the effects of fighter jet noise on pilots in this regard (focus, depth perception, percieved track of other moving objects).

I don't remember the details of the cause/effect conclusions, just that they were pretty profound, and could be related to everyday life... bikes, cars, etc... enough so that I started turning down the stereo when engaging in spirited driving, and yes, I can tell the difference when I do... same as when I wear ear plugs on the bike.


Any continuous noise (especially high frequency noise, AKA jet engine noice), causes fatigue. I notice my riding time before becoming tired is significantly increased if I wear earplugs. As a matter of fact, it's now habit for me.

[CruisingDog]

(Step onto soap box)

For the sake of discussion, let's just say louder is better.

Shouldn't we install omni-directional fog horns on our bikes? What about bull horns that constantly stream a message "I am here, I am here, I am here"? Or perhaps we all should install ultra-high powered stereos that play ear-piercing random sound patterns whenever we ride? Or let's just mount amplified megaphone pipes right on the exhaust manifolds...yeah, that would be loud.

If these "louder is better" solutions aren't enough, what about our other senses? For the sake of discussion, let's not include the more than 90% of sensory information that humans take in visually, let's forget about how invisible motorcylists become when we wear the black uniform of the loud pipes crowd. Forget that. Shouldn't we cover our bikes in manure so motorists smell us coming? Shouldn't we mount long pointy probes on our bikes so motorists feel us coming? Shouldn't we install catapults that launch rotten fish so motorists taste us coming? ("I'm sorry officer, but I didn't taste him coming.")

More than 90% of sensory information is taken in visually. Being visible on a bike trumps being heard, smelled, felt or tasted. If you haven't taken measures to appeal to that 90+% but think loud pipes will save your ***, you're kidding yourself as you pollute the air with useless noise and put the rights of your fellow motorcyclists at risk.

(Step down from soapbox)

I don't know if LOUD does make a difference in saving lives. It does get you noticed for now. Typically what makes a difference is being unique.

You know when car alarms just came out, you knew someone was stealing your car. Now that they're common place, everyone ignores them. This is basically what will happen with load pipes. You won't be unique [c'oz everyone's getting them], and everyone will ignore you. It just adds to noise pollution.

We're actually starting to see the same thing with SUV headlights and the light output (and motorcycles for that matter). Lots of light pollution and it causes more dazzling of oncoming drivers or drivers of smaller vehicles.

This pissing contest is getting ridiculous in my opinion. Bigger is better. Yeah right! NOT!!

The reason Sirens on emergency vehicles work is that no one else is allowed to have them. Hence they are unique. There is also a significance attached to them, ie an emergency. You take notice because you've trained yourself to do so over time and you know what they mean.

...I've got a brilliant idea. Find a dead skunk and tie it you your exhaust. Ride in front of the Loud pipe brigade and keep the distance to about 1/4 mile. Let's see what happens then!! I'm sure you'll be noticed!! ;-)


My $0.03 worth. Inflation!

[sherob]

http://www.detroitredwings.com/images/history/octopus2.jpg

Hmmm...must be one of those new squids launched by motorcycle. Funny, I didn't taste it coming.

"Hi... would you like to try the new McSquid? Would you like to supersize that?"... :D

[Sink]

Believe it or not, I can't smell skunk! I have had bikes pull up along side of me in my cage that if I wouldn't have heard them, I might have pulled over on them. No one in they're right mind can say that being heard is not better than being quiet. We all have to ride defensively. Noise IMHO is our friend. Waking babies is BS!

[Bones]

Waking babies is BS!

If by this you mean waking babies is bad and signals ridiculously loud pipes, then you are right.

[Sink]

Laws can ban loud pipes if they are enforced. How can you tell me motorcycles can be banned? Are loud cars banned? There may be laws against it but they can't ban all cars because some are loud. I've heard many a loud car in my life, but they aren't banned. Maybe laws will be enforced but motorcycles won't be banned.

[Sink]

If by this you mean waking babies is bad and signals ridiculously loud pipes, then you are right.
I mean it's not easy to wake a sleeping baby. Mine wouldn't have woke up to a loud motorcycle going by. Just a reply to someone earlier that said something about waking babies.

[sherob]

I'd like to see the LEO on his HD making just as much noise issue a ticket ;) The guys riding them in KPD are loud... especially when they open them up :eek:

[Sink]

Better be careful. They might ban all red cars because some of them speed! Lets get real!

[jholder]

[Quote] I mean it's not easy to wake a sleeping baby. Mine wouldn't have woke up to a loud motorcycle going by. Just a reply to someone earlier that said something about waking babies.[Quote]

So because your baby wouldn't wake up, that is the norm? My son woke up each time the knucklehead down the street with the straight pipes opened it up as he pulled away from the stop sign near my house.

[Sink]

I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe you should have gone and talked to him. Like I said before, I have a noise level controller on my right grip. Turn it and it gets louder. Don't turn it so far, and it's not as loud!

[Sink]

In reply to pointing pipes forward. I always thought the speed of sound was much faster than my motorcycle. You would have to go how fast to get there before you are heard? Don't get me wrong on this, I don't like straight pipes! But I do see an advantage to louder pipes than come stock on most bikes.

[Bones]

Maybe laws will be enforced but motorcycles won't be banned.

Sink, if your baby could sleep through a gang's worth of loud pipes, consider yourself fortunate. My wife and I weren't so lucky.

Don't bet that motorcycles "won't be banned." Already motorcycles ARE banned in many private places where cars are allowed, such as the ocean drive in Monterey, California, plus parks and many residential communities where I have personally seen the NO MOTORCYCLES signs. I can't ride a motorcycle in my mother's development in Florida or my aunt's development in North Carolina or my buddy's development in Arizona. Cars OK, bikes not OK.

It's the public bans we really should worry about, and they are being proposed all over. The AMA points out motorcycle bans they have fought in St. Louis, Detroit, Brockton MA, Springfield IL, Chicago, and New York City. In each case, motorcycle noise was the justification for these proposals.

Our legal system views operating a motor vehicle on public ways not as a right, but as a privilege. What these bans are attempting to do is to regulate a privilege -- cancel it, actually.

Putting aside the issue that started this thread, the fact remains that excessive noise is the reason that motorcycles are being attacked through legislative means. If existing laws regarding excessive noise were enforced, none of this would be an issue.

Look at what the AMA has to say about excessive noise. Good reading.
http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/noise.html

[CruisingDog]

In reply to pointing pipes forward. I always thought the speed of sound was much faster than my motorcycle. You would have to go how fast to get there before you are heard? Don't get me wrong on this, I don't like straight pipes! But I do see an advantage to louder pipes than come stock on most bikes.


The point of that was that if loud pipes do indeed save lives you will be wanting to warn the people ahead of you. Hence pipes facing forward [since indeed sound travels faster than your motorcycle]. Pipes facing behind you just annoys the people you've passed.

Now the other thing to comment about is that sound is directional. Higher frequencies are very directional, lower frequencies less so. Since your pipes act like a resonant chamber they become quite directional (think of the part in a reflex speaker, you know, the tube thingy for the bass enhancement). This is in essence a wave guide. OK, it IS a wave guide. The same with your pipes. You are in effect using your pipes as a wave guide to point at the traffic behind you. Being on the motorcycle you don't tend to be anywhere near the focal point of the sound, so it sounds quieter to you than it does to someone behind you. The difference is very significant. We're talking 30 or so dBA (decibels). As an example, think of your favourite band playing a concert. They have the main speakers facing forward and then have foldback/monitor speakers so that they can hear what they're playing. Directional waveguides my friend!

So the original comment about loud pipes saving lives may be true but they would be a heck of a lot more effective if they pointed forward. Hence killing the rider from carbon monoxide poisoning!!

If you do have pipes on your motorcycle, please stand 50 feet behind it and ask a friend to throttle it to about 50% throttle. See how loud it is and then you'll appreciate what people complain about [or not, as the case may be].

The reason I mention this is that I went through the same exercise with some shotgun pipes on my last cruiser motorcycle. Sounded cool when I was on the bike. My friend who followed me on a trip was complaining bitterly about how loud they were. I swapped bikes with him for a short time. F$%king hell!! I got rid of the pipes as soon as I got home, being a considerate road user that I normally am.

I don't want to be in a noisey environment and I don't want to create that for my neigbours either. Common decency.

[Titansrick]

If you think loud pipes save lives, read the thread called Bad Day. Michelle was hit head on, by a very elderly man. If he could not see her, what makes you think he could have heard her?
What saved her life was having a full face helmet on!!! (She is still in ICU at Vanderbilt Hospital, but she is alive. Despite having a full faced helmet on, Monday she had 10 hours of reconstructive surgery on her face)
If loud pipes save lives, why is Honda developing air bags for motorcycles, instead of louder pipes?
If loud pipes save lives on motorcycles, why don't we adapt this technology(or lack of) to all motorized vehicles? Can you imagine the noise if every car and truck had loud pipes?
Will the loud pipes cancel out the other drivers cell phones, stereos, and ipods?
Sorry, but I vote for Full face helmets over loud pipes based on my friend being Life Flighted to the hospital last weekend.

[Sink]

So do they ban red cars too? And kids with orange hair? Any private area can ban anything they want. I guess I live in a part of the country where this isn't happening. I don't have motorcycle gangs riding through my neighborhood. If I did, I bet I'd move somewhere else (for my kids). You can buy land in Nebraska pretty cheap! I still say that in public areas, motorcycles won't be banned. Maybe noise ordinences should be enforced. Back to before the thread hijack, you don't see any advantage to louder than stock motorcycles?

[Sink]

If you think loud pipes save lives, read the thread called Bad Day. Michelle was hit head on, by a very elderly man. If he could not see her, what makes you think he could have heard her?
What saved her life was having a full face helmet on!!! (She is still in ICU at Vanderbilt Hospital, but she is alive. Despite having a full faced helmet on, Monday she had 10 hours of reconstructive surgery on her face)
If loud pipes save lives, why is Honda developing air bags for motorcycles, instead of louder pipes?
If loud pipes save lives on motorcycles, why don't we adapt this technology(or lack of) to all motorized vehicles? Can you imagine the noise if every car and truck had loud pipes?
Will the loud pipes cancel out the other drivers cell phones, stereos, and ipods?
Sorry, but I vote for Full face helmets over loud pipes based on my friend being Life Flighted to the hospital last weekend.

Wow! I didn't know that full face helmets save everyone's life! I'm gunna hafta git me onea those! We should put them on all the soldiers in Iraq! All joking aside, I am sorry to hear about your friend.
Maybe cars save lives too? Or do they take them. All I've said all along is that I will take all the help I can get. If that's what gets me noticed then GREAT!
How many lives do you think airbags on motorcycles will take? Airbags in cars kill some people too. So do seatbelts. But they save some too. Hmmm. Maybe loud pipes save some people too.
How about we vote for all the help we can get! If that's what gets someone to look then I'm for it.

[CruisingDog]

So do they ban red cars too? And kids with orange hair? Any private area can ban anything they want. I guess I live in a part of the country where this isn't happening. I don't have motorcycle gangs riding through my neighborhood. If I did, I bet I'd move somewhere else (for my kids). You can buy land in Nebraska pretty cheap! I still say that in public areas, motorcycles won't be banned. Maybe noise ordinences should be enforced. Back to before the thread hijack, you don't see any advantage to louder than stock motorcycles?

I pesonally do see 'some' merit. But I think that there should be a limit on what 'noise level' is allowed. The problem is that the law is not being enforced and hence it becoming the norm. [at least here in CA]! This what I really object to.

[Sink]

I pesonally do see 'some' merit. But I think that there should be a limit on what 'noise level' is allowed. The problem is that the law is not being enforced and hence it becoming the norm. [at least here in CA]! This what I really object to.

And that I will agree with. It needs to be controlled to some point.

[Sink]

Lets start a new poll. Does praying save lives?

[GRN]

:f2: :BDH: :bsflag: :tts1: :hyp1:

[Sink]

I say that the poll is incorrect because loud pipes do save lives! They may be annoying, but they do save some lives! Helmets do to!

[Sink]

:f2: :BDH: :bsflag: :tts1: :hyp1:
So don't get in on it!

[Bones]

Back to before the thread hijack, you don't see any advantage to louder than stock motorcycles?

I see no advantage, nor do I hear one. I believe there are far more effective ways to protect yourself (a great many described in this thread) that don't pollute the environment and offend your fellow citizens.

If you want a different sound than stock go for it -- even a louder sound, if that's what you like. I've heard ST's with Staintunes. They're louder than stock but not excessively so. The problem I have is with excessively loud pipes. For purposes of this discussion, I'll define excessive as greater than 99 dB, which is the legal limit for a post-1986 bike in my state. Why anyone thinks that pipes louder than that would be a safety feature is beyond me. If loud pipes save lives, then it follows that quiet pipes endanger lives. By that standard, Gold Wings are lethal. Hardly.

Motocycle bans are already in place in private areas, no doubt many more than I've listed. Do you think they would be in place if motorcycles had reasonably muffled pipes? Attempts are being made to write bans on motorcycles in public places into the law. It's not prediction, it's reality. If you don't believe me, check with the AMA and read about the issues they are addressing...excessive noise is just one.

And why the hell should someone have to move because of bozos with loud pipes? I live in a nice, quiet neighborhood that used to be disturbed by a bunch of bozos leaving a biker bar 2 miles away and parading past the end of my street. Since the place went out of business we all sleep better on Monday nights during football season.

Cruisin' Dog said it well: I don't want to be in a noisy environment and I don't want to create that for my neigbours either. Common decency.

The last word is someone else's. I'm outta here...

[Tinyufb]

I think this is an excellent topic. You may take positions as you see fit. However we deal in acoustics. Sound is an excellent warning device. We can hear an audible signal readily. Visual signals, however, are not as perceptive as audio.

Loud exhaust will trigger an alarm with drivers. Excessively loud noise may even cause the driver to try to run you over, but like anything else, if the noise is controlled properly it DOES act as a LEGITIMATE Warning signal.

This thread seams to have two sides. One side is acting almost paranoid over exhaust noise and will not concede even the smallest point, while the noise group appears to be willing to concede many points, but holds firm to their primary belief.

In short - you ear muffed guys need to calm down and give the other group a break. Your all acting like a bunch of Washington Politicians.

Tiny

[Sink]

I see no advantage, nor do I hear one. I believe there are far more effective ways to protect yourself (a great many described in this thread) that don't pollute the environment and offend your fellow citizens.

If you want a different sound than stock go for it -- even a louder sound, if that's what you like. I've heard ST's with Staintunes. They're louder than stock but not excessively so. The problem I have is with excessively loud pipes. For purposes of this discussion, I'll define excessive as greater than 99 dB, which is the legal limit for a post-1986 bike in my state. Why anyone thinks that pipes louder than that would be a safety feature is beyond me. If loud pipes save lives, then it follows that quiet pipes endanger lives. By that standard, Gold Wings are lethal. Hardly.

Motocycle bans are already in place in private areas, no doubt many more than I've listed. Do you think they would be in place if motorcycles had reasonably muffled pipes? Attempts are being made to write bans on motorcycles in public places into the law. It's not prediction, it's reality. If you don't believe me, check with the AMA and read about the issues they are addressing...excessive noise is just one.

And why the hell should someone have to move because of bozos with loud pipes? I live in a nice, quiet neighborhood that used to be disturbed by a bunch of bozos leaving a biker bar 2 miles away. Since the place went out of business we all sleep better on Monday nights during football season.

Cruisin' Dog said it well: I don't want to be in a noisy environment and I don't want to create that for my neigbours either. Common decency.

The last word is someone else's. I'm outta here...

Seems to me that all motorcycles CAN BE lethal. Even goldwings. Loud OR quiet pipes. Helmets or not. Even ST's
I'm glad you don't have to hear those bikes anymore. Doesn't sound like a nice quiet neighborhood to me. I'd move to a quiet one if I were you! But I guess that's just my opinion, like you gave me yours.
Maybe I'll run and hide too so I don't have to hear what others think.....

[Bones]

Maybe I'll run and hide too so I don't have to hear what others think.....
Hiding, no. Just escaping excessive noise.

[Sink]

See, you HEARD ME! :chop1: I made you look, didn't I?

[Tinyufb]

If you think loud pipes save lives, read the thread called Bad Day. Michelle was hit head on, by a very elderly man. If he could not see her, what makes you think he could have heard her?
.

You guys are great for going overboard.

I doubt that anyone is saying that Loud Pipes is a 100% Guarentee to save lives. All they are saying is that it is one of many aspects that can HELP save you from a potential accident. Doesnt mean it will, but if there is a potential to eliminate an accident - isnt it worth considering? Or are you too rigid to even concede that small point. You didn't vote for Hillary did you?

Look I hate excessive loud pipes just as much as you probably do, but I am not foolish enough to say that loud pipes provide no safety whatsoever.

Remember when they start putting on that 3rd Brake Lights on Cars. When they first came out - everyone noticed it. Stuck out like a sore thumb. Now everyone is used to it and few if any ever pay attention to it. Same for loud pipes. IF everyone had loud pipes, cars, trucks, bikes, it would cease to be a preventative measure. But not everyone does. So the few that do have them are probably adding a smudge more safety to their ride.

I have honestly stopped from changing lanes several times, because I HEARD a bike rather than saw him. Each time he was in my blind spot, but the noise was just loud enough to get my attention - THANK GOD.

So dont be so steadfast to criticize loud pipes.... they can be beneficial. Like everything else in life - if taken in moderation it is good for you.

ON THAT NOTE I think I will order some BURBS for my Bike.

Tiny

[Tinyufb]

See, you HEARD ME! :chop1: I made you look, didn't I?



Good one Sink that is worth a TOUCHE'

wonder if anyone got the message.....

[sherob]

ON THAT NOTE I think I will order some BURBS for my Bike.

Tiny

Bubs... ;)

[Sink]

Bubs... ;)

Guess again. These are called "BURBS". They are all individually hand made for the specific bike. Bubs is a different brand.

[sherob]

Guess again. These are called "BURBS". They are all individually hand made for the specific bike. Bubs is a different brand.

Are they made to piss of people who live in the Burbs? LOL!!!!

[Sink]

Are they made to piss of people who live in the Burbs? LOL!!!!

Could be but MOSTLY THEY SAVE LIVES............ Couldn't help it.
Sink

[GRN]

So don't get in on it!


I already did, about 3 weeks and 115 posts ago... since then this thread has had new posts everyday that are the same ideas recycled over and over again. Just seems that once a thread gets to the point where no new intellectual content of fresh perspective is being generated, that it would be left to drift into the archives... but no, lets's keep it alive by basically rehashing what was already covered in the first 20-30 posts over and over again, and again, and again... same stuff just about every time I log on for what, 19 days now? Glad you have so much free time dude, can I borrow some? Certainly you have something new to add to one of the few hundred other topics here that may be relavant to you? More than half of your total posts as a member here for 7 months are in this thread... what else ya got :) ?

[kingprawnokay]

Yep. Maybe it is time to put the arguing to bed. Sometimes it is best to agree to disagree. I think I was on GRN's case the first time he commented on the pointless nature of this thread. Now I'm on his side. :) GRN is still a salty dog though. ;)

This poll has revealed that 70% of the 170+ members of this site that voted don't believe that "loud" pipes (over 99 dB at x number of ft.) contribute any amount of safety on the road. About 1/5th believe that pipes slightly louder than stock enhance safety (2Bros, baffled Staintunes), and only about 5% feel that loud pipes really do save lives. The numbers speak for themselves.

I still believe that this topic is crucial with regard to motorcyclist's rights. If we want to be respected by the community, we should respect the community by decreasing, not adding, to noise pollution. We should enroll in safety courses, wear bright colored protective gear, use our turn signals, drive responsibly, and still be prepared to be ignored by the cagers.

The ideas stated here should definately be considered by anyone who is thinking of buying really loud pipes. Many posts here offer information that I had forgotten, or to which I had never been exposed. Thanks to everyone who added their two cents.

The core members on this site appear dedicated to the education of the riding community and for that I am very greatful. I intend to continue to learn from all of you.

[Sink]

I don't recall the poll being about how loud the pipes were. If the poll were to have said over 99db I would have agreed. But that's not what this is about. The poll asked if loud pipes save lives or if they serve no purpose. Am I right? Do they? The answer is yes! I some cases they do save lives. After the thread hijack, it went on to talk about helmets, light modulators, pipes pointing forward..........
If you don't want input from newer members, just say so.
GRN: If you want some free time, I would be glad to give you some. But, you have to take the 6 inch needles in the back and nerve burning (radiofrequency neurotomy) and sleepless nights that I'm going through. Remember that different people have different circumstances. Everyone isn't perfect like you!
One of you even stated that he was on a soapbox (better than the rest of us?) I thought this was all about riding. Some of you are as bad as Harley riders! Polls are opinions and opinions are like *******s! We all have them and some ARE them!
As I've been watching this board for the last 7 months, I've found that there is a lot of helpful information here. You know what you are talking about. But this poll brings out the best in you. Huh? Some of you are so stubborn that you wont even admit when you are wrong or open you minds to the other side.
With much time on my hands,
Sink

[Sink]

I already did, about 3 weeks and 115 posts ago... since then this thread has had new posts everyday that are the same ideas recycled over and over again. Just seems that once a thread gets to the point where no new intellectual content of fresh perspective is being generated, that it would be left to drift into the archives... but no, lets's keep it alive by basically rehashing what was already covered in the first 20-30 posts over and over again, and again, and again... same stuff just about every time I log on for what, 19 days now? Glad you have so much free time dude, can I borrow some? Certainly you have something new to add to one of the few hundred other topics here that may be relavant to you? More than half of your total posts as a member here for 7 months are in this thread... what else ya got :) ?

By the way, you have the right to not click on this thread if you are tired of it.
Sink

[kingprawnokay]

Sink,

The poll features 4 possible responses.

The bottom line is we don't need to agree. Nobody's saying they don't want to hear from new members. Nobody's saying that they're better than anyone else. Please, say what you like, but pay attention to how you are saying it

I am very sorry to hear about what you are going through. I have a 23 year old friend who is experiencing similar treatment.

I'm sorry that you feel this is personal. It isn't. The content of this thread is just opinion and speculation that may be based on experience.

[Sink]

Sink,

The poll features 4 possible responses.

The bottom line is we don't need to agree. Nobody's saying they don't want to hear from new members. Nobody's saying that they're better than anyone else. Please, say what you like, but pay attention to how you are saying it

I am very sorry to hear about what you are going through. I have a 23 year old friend who is experiencing similar treatment.

I'm sorry that you feel this is personal. It isn't. The content of this thread is just opinion and speculation that may be based on experience.

Kevin,
I have really enjoyed "lurking" on this site for the last 7 months. I WILL buy an ST1300 when the time is right. I have riden a couple of them and really enjoyed it. I understand that we don't have to agree, but it just seems that the regular posters think that they have the only correct opinion. Very rigid and set whether it is correct or not. I'm not scared away and will continue posting as I see fit. Those of us without ST's don't have much to say from experience but, when a topic like this comes along that I can comment on, I will.

Sink

[sherob]

I understand that we don't have to agree, but it just seems that the regular posters think that they have the only correct opinion. Very rigid and set whether it is correct or not.

I am a regular poster and a ST owner... I do think loud pipes save lives ;) Not obnoxiously loud mind you, just loud enough to do it's job. I used to have a Vtwin and still have a spot in my heart, and garage, for another :p:

Maybe one day I'll be able to get me another one... RC51 :eek:

[kingprawnokay]

Kevin,
I have really enjoyed "lurking" on this site for the last 7 months. Those of us without ST's don't have much to say from experience but, when a topic like this comes along that I can comment on, I will.

Sink

I'm glad you are not deterred and will continue to post.
:03biker:

[sherob]

I'm glad you are not deterred and will continue to post.
:03biker:

Ditto... :)

[sokay]

If a person says he is doing something for a certain reason and it's just a lie, if he is simply not telling the truth, if that's not his real reason for doing the thing, then one has to wonder, why is this person pretending that the false reason, the lie, the fake, phony reason is his reason and not tell his actual and honest reason for why he is doing what he is doing? Now, we have Biketoberfest just ending today here in Dayona. It could be called the Loudbiketoberfest. If these riders were concerned about safe riding practices, maybe we would see a few florescent vests? A few more helmets? Maybe this would not be a huge drinking party? When someone is lying to you about what he is doing and wants you to respect his lie, to take seriously his attempts to pull the wool over your eyes, to fool you, then you don't have to wonder what his true reasons are. You can just ignore the lying phoney pretend-hoodlum and offer him the respect he deserves.

[CruisingDog]

I'm glad you are not deterred and will continue to post.
:03biker:

I think we should talk about something less fanatical .....like, lets say, tires :-)

[sherob]

I think we should talk about something less fanatical .....like, lets say, tires :-)

Or oil... :D

[newbornst1300]

I think we should talk about something less fanatical .....like, lets say, tires :-)
How about horsepower... Isn't it restricted in some countries to make motorcycles safer?? :rolleyes:

[kingprawnokay]

You can always just yank the gov'nor. :D

[sherob]

You can always just yank the gov'nor. :D

He walked into that one... :bow1: :D

[Sink]

If a person says he is doing something for a certain reason and it's just a lie, if he is simply not telling the truth, if that's not his real reason for doing the thing, then one has to wonder, why is this person pretending that the false reason, the lie, the fake, phony reason is his reason and not tell his actual and honest reason for why he is doing what he is doing? Now, we have Biketoberfest just ending today here in Dayona. It could be called the Loudbiketoberfest. If these riders were concerned about safe riding practices, maybe we would see a few florescent vests? A few more helmets? Maybe this would not be a huge drinking party? When someone is lying to you about what he is doing and wants you to respect his lie, to take seriously his attempts to pull the wool over your eyes, to fool you, then you don't have to wonder what his true reasons are. You can just ignore the lying phoney pretend-hoodlum and offer him the respect he deserves.

Huh? :confused:

[Sink]

I think we should talk about something less fanatical .....like, lets say, tires :-)

Here we go.... I have tires on my V-twin. They are black. I hope that doesn't cause any problems.... ;)

Sink

[GRN]

Huh? :confused:

Meaning if someone who likes to ride wrecklessly, without any protective gear, and possibly party a bit while doing so tells you that they have loud pipes to save their lives, they are full of crap. Kinda like the brainiacs who dress in solid black and have vintage bikes and don't drive with their headlights on because they don't have to... and their pipes are going to save them?

:th1: Here's a poll we could do to put the whole thing in perspective and have a bit deeper conversation about safety... what single preventative approach increases your safety the most? Or even better, instead of a choosing the most important, rate the list from 1 to 8.

1. aux lighting to improve your visual signature to others, and your vision at night
2. good interpretation of sightlines/staying out of blind spots in traffic and intersections, making sure you're seen
3. conservative driving habits, always abiding by suggested guidelines and laws.
4. education and advanced technical riding/performance/avoidance technique
5. loud pipes
6. reducing variables by deciding when, where and in what conditions to ride.
7. colors of bike & riding gear
8. being blessed with, and actually using good common sense.

My score card... 8, 1, 2, 6, 7, 4, 5, 3.

[Doobage]

2,6,4,3....everything else is minor (IMO). Anything that you do in an attempt to be seen is a crutch. Sure it "might" help, but that's a huge gamble. I've seen people in cars go for 2 to 5 miles in a car without noticing a police car or ambulance directly behind them with their siren on. If that isn't going to get someone to "pull their head out", then some passing lights and loud pipes aren't going to do much to make you "seen".

That's not to say that I don't think a contrast color, such as brighter helmets, jackets, reflective stuff, ....all that "helps". But if you rely on it, then you are setting yourself up for disaster.

The primary defense is that you are invisible. If you ride under that impression, whether you are glowing in neon or not, you will most likely avoid the majority of situations because you, yourself, don't put yourself into those situations where you are dependent on someone else "seeing" you.

Aside from riding conservatively when you can't control your relation to the drivers around you (liike when a car is pulling out into traffic, it's up to you to anticipate the worst and make sure you know where your escape routes are. So it's more important for you to "see" the potential accident and be less dependent on others seeing you. Note: conservative driving doesn't necessarily mean slow. It means driving under the safest conditions possible. So on a freeway where people are traveling 10 mph over the speed limit, you might want to travel at the same speed so as to avoid being passed frequently and avoid that interaction. The longer you are in proximity to the same driver, the more likely they will notice you - not that you should expect that, but it just might improve those odds of being seen.

Lastly, your riding gear is your back-up. If you are as protected as can be, then you have done your part.

See others, anticipate that you are not visible and expect people to cut you off or merge with you and always look for your escape route. If none of that works, be ready for the worst...an accident, which is what your gear is intended for (may I never have to see how well it works).

All other devices for being seen are possibly useful, but like other discussions, such as ABS, it should not be expected to "save" you. It's merely there as a minor percentage to increase your odds.

Based on percentages of usefulness in saving your life....
60% is putting yourself in the best possible position on the road (location, speed, environmental conditions, mental and physical condition, etc...)
20% is looking for your way out during an emergency
15% is riding gear
5% is anything else that you add to being seen are sub points to this (bright colors, lights, sound, ABS, disco ball, gremlin bell, Ethel Mermon,...).

Anything that you can do on the list brings you closer to surviving. But if your only item is "loud pipes" then really your not hitting the high impact areas. Taking a "good" MSF course will remind you about the 80% worth of survival factors. A good course can be discovered simply by talking to the instructors before you buy the course and ask what they provide and describe what you are seeking. If the instructor doesn't have good answers, then it's probably not a good course.

Money can buy you some good gear. A descent helmet can protect you for most of that 15%. Any other farkle, which probably costs far more than the protective gear, is not the primary fix to safety.

Now that I've expressed my "opinion", I'll be ready to be flamed. If I'm flawed in my suggestion, please let me know since I want to provide the best advice to help myself and others.

Thanks!

[sherob]

1. aux lighting to improve your visual signature to others, and your vision at night
2. good interpretation of sightlines/staying out of blind spots in traffic and intersections, making sure you're seen
3. conservative driving habits, always abiding by suggested guidelines and laws.
4. education and advanced technical riding/performance/avoidance technique
5. loud pipes
6. reducing variables by deciding when, where and in what conditions to ride.
7. colors of bike & riding gear
8. being blessed with, and actually using good common sense.

My score card... 8, 1, 2, 6, 7, 4, 5, 3.

This is great! ;)

8,1,2,6,7,3,4,5

5) will move up a little when I get my new pipes :p: 6) I tend to ride in the rain more than I probably should :rolleyes:

[GRN]

By the way, you have the right to not click on this thread if you are tired of it.
Sink

Absolutely man... but I guess my great faith in the human intellect drives me to believe that if somebody has posted something new, that it's indeed new. Forgive me. I'm very interested to hear your feedback on this latest twist on the thread :)

[Bones]

1. aux lighting to improve your visual signature to others, and your vision at night
2. good interpretation of sightlines/staying out of blind spots in traffic and intersections, making sure you're seen
3. conservative driving habits, always abiding by suggested guidelines and laws.
4. education and advanced technical riding/performance/avoidance technique
5. loud pipes
6. reducing variables by deciding when, where and in what conditions to ride.
7. colors of bike & riding gear
8. being blessed with, and actually using good common sense.


Interesting, GRN.

8, 2, 1 (subset of 2?), 6, 4, 7, 3, 5.

[Rolling Thunder]

By the poll numbers I see that I will be outgunned on this sensitive topic, but, I have a HD 2002 Heritage Springer with Screamin' Eagle HD pipes. They are certainly not as loud as ~90% of aftermarket pipes for Harleys, but I can say this - the automobile motoring public gives/shows a lot more respect to me by not cutting me off especially when I approach from behind - and I think it is mostly because they can hear me coming versus the quieter 2005 ST 1300 (which gets measurably less respect).
Having said all that, I still enjoy riding the ST much more than the Springer.

[Sink]

1. aux lighting to improve your visual signature to others, and your vision at night
2. good interpretation of sightlines/staying out of blind spots in traffic and intersections, making sure you're seen
3. conservative driving habits, always abiding by suggested guidelines and laws.
4. education and advanced technical riding/performance/avoidance technique
5. loud pipes
6. reducing variables by deciding when, where and in what conditions to ride.
7. colors of bike & riding gear
8. being blessed with, and actually using good common sense.

My score card... 8, 1, 2, 6, 7, 4, 5, 3.

OK, Here goes nothing.....

2, 4, 8, 5, 1, 7, 6, 3
I would group 2 and 4 together. Education and knowing what you are doing is the most important aspect of riding. Most of the people that ride on the street don't have a clue how to ride. The most dangerous part of riding is the first 6 months learning how to handle the bike! I ride on a shrine competition motorcyce drill team and we have to learn how to turn on an exact spot so we miss the other guys, not just make it around the corner, or it hurts and costs money! I still feel that louder than stock pipes are important for safety, because they get people to look. They know you are there and They look for you. Then they can see you better because of the visual clues of color and lighting. Don't get me wrong on this one, I don't like straight pipes, but I do think that some noise is valuable for safety. If you want to reduce variables, drive your car all the time or better yet, don't get out of bed. We all know that motorcycling is not the safest sport to begin with. And obeying the laws isn't always the safest way to ride. Flow of traffic or get ahead of it seems safer to me!

Just my opinion,
Not too loud Sink... :chop1:

[GRN]

Yeah, you really could group a lot of it under 8 in that education, understanding, and multiple approaches to making you presence known are all just good sense. I live a very visual life, so that's what I tend to key on.

Some folks have more or less choices about the environments they have to ride in. I'm lucky right now, this is the best place I have lived for riding... anything North is a go for sure (low human density, but more fur), anything much to the South needs to be questioned where and how badly I want to ride. I try to keep excess human density and water out of the picture as much as is reasonable. Some variables I just live with... moose will kill ya no matter what you're driving, so I just hope for the best and plan for the worst (NO ABS).

[Sink]

Yeah, you really could group a lot of it under 8 in that education, understanding, and multiple approaches to making you presence known are all just good sense. I live a very visual life, so that's what I tend to key on.

Some folks have more or less choices about the environments they have to ride in. I'm lucky right now, this is the best place I have lived for riding... anything North is a go for sure (low human density, but more fur), anything much to the South needs to be questioned where and how badly I want to ride. I try to keep excess human density and water out of the picture as much as is reasonable. Some variables I just live with... moose will kill ya no matter what you're driving, so I just hope for the best and plan for the worst (NO ABS).

I got ya there! I live on a gravel road and riding home at dusk is a 10 mph venture. I see at least a couple of deer every time! Scares the crap outa me, thats for sure. Have a buddy that was riding home one night, about a mile from my place and a couple of deer ran out in front of him. He missed the first one but caught the second. Woulda been fine but the bike landed on his leg and broke it in several places! Damn! His wifey made him sell the bike or never return home. Women! Geeesh!

Sink

[Bones]

Does anybody know if deer whistles actually do any good?

[sherob]

I've never heard or read any proof positive that they actually worked. Don't know how much they run, but if they are cheap give it a go... or knowing how you are such a farklemaker, just make one :D

[GRN]

I got ya there! I live on a gravel road and riding home at dusk is a 10 mph venture. I see at least a couple of deer every time! Scares the crap outa me, thats for sure. Have a buddy that was riding home one night, about a mile from my place and a couple of deer ran out in front of him. He missed the first one but caught the second. Woulda been fine but the bike landed on his leg and broke it in several places! Damn! His wifey made him sell the bike or never return home. Women! Geeesh!

Sink

Yup we've got plenty too, but the deer aren't the biggies here man. We have tons, and tons of moose and black bear... we average between 6-8 major (with serious injury) moose collisions within 3 miles of my house in either direction a year. Dawn and dusk... try to avoid it, chill out big time when you can't. PIAA 910's rule... luckily I don't deal with much oncoming around here at night.

Bones... I used to use the whistles when I lived in the Adirondacks, finger lakes, and in PA. If they are placed correctly (which on this bike I think would have to be below the mirrors - they need open air flow and nothing behind them as I understand it), they do succesfully scare the crap out of most big furry things and make them run like hell. Unfortunately my personal experience has been that they run strait out in front of me... seriously, I had more stuff run in front of me with them than without, maybe just bad luck but I quit using them.

[sherob]

Unfortunately my personal experience has been that they run strait out in front of me... seriously, I had more stuff run in front of me with them than without, maybe just bad luck but I quit using them.

Maybe you got the mating whistle :rolleyes: A guy I know that rides a wing used to have them... took them off for the same reason ;)

[CruisingDog]

Maybe you got the mating whistle :rolleyes: A guy I know that rides a wing used to have them... took them off for the same reason ;)

Maybe you need to get one your HD buddies to buy you one of those Harley bells instead. :-)

[Sink]

Can't prove if they work or not. I have them on one of my vans and don't see as many deer (it seems) in that van. Don't really want to put them on my cruiser. Mess up the look and all.;) Maybe I'll just point my pipes forward...:) LOL!
I just go REALLY SLOW at dusk and dawn. I did hit one in an explorer one time. It was down to jump right when I hit it. It looked like a footbal fieldgoal kick! That sucker must a flown a hundred feet or more. Got up and ran off (to probably die later). Got out to look at about $2700 worth of damage. Didn't even get any deer sausage out of th deal! DAMN!

Sink

[JReviere]

Differfent Strokes... isn't that the crux of it? My bike has Vance and Hines pipes. They are LOUD by my standards. None of us have db meters, we all judge subjectively. Personally, I do not believe loud pipes do anything positive other than perhaps give the rider the illusion of excessively impressive amounts of power. Actually, unless the induction system, the carbs or injection system, AND the exhaust system are all carefully tuned TOGETHER, altering just one of them can and in most cases make the engine run WORSE than the factory settings right out of the box. Mine was carefully tuned for optimum performance of a low restriction air filter, larger jets, a different taper on the needles, and shimming to add richness, this with the V&H pipes.. Run great? YES. Too NOISY for my taste? YES. That's why it's in the market for a new home and I'm looking to buy an ST1300... I DON'T LIKE LOUD, mine or anyone's else. I prefer to be seen, not heard.
Loud pipes give me a headache and there's no debate there.
JR STOC 394

[crazykz]

:f2: :BDH: :bsflag: :tts1: :hyp1:

Amen brother. NO I don't want to start a religon debate either. ;)

Curt

[crazykz]

I don't mind people running straight pipes at all. I wish more people would do it and piss off the legislators that make laws to restrict motorcycle freedoms that these people take for granted.

All of them will have to convert to ST's when they ban their loud pipes. ;)

Curt

[Bones]

This from the current issue of Rider:

"Planning a visit to West Hollywood, California? If so, make sure your bike is quiet. The city recently implemented a zero-tolerance policy against loud pipes, citing residents with complaints. Sheriff's deputies will be aggressively writing "fix-it" tickets for those with illegal mufflers, requiring replacement with legal mufflers (assuming you ever want to return to the area). A second violation will count as an infraction."

[naturally wired]

I know one thing for sure scares the hell out of the deer and at this time of the year its a life saver....Ohio number 4 nation wide for hitting them....and at this time of year its dark when I leave work so any help is welcome in keeping the hoofs off the blacktop in front of me ....last year all I could do was keep hitting the horn.....I guess the deer up here arent afraid of a singer sewing machine :D

[ekcwmi]

BIG NOISE=small penis:D
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
\/
Just for smiles-don't flame me please.
Loud pipes lose rights-I agree with the AMA.

[Rolling Thunder]

The North American Safety Council has documented that loud pipes do save lives. See their 2004 report titled "Safety issues related to decibel levels of motorcycle exhaust systems, Item 3 subpart C".
Even the poll on this website is virtually unanimous on this issue. What's the question?

[kingprawnokay]

Even the poll on this website is virtually unanimous on this issue. What's the question?

67% isn't unanimous. It's a strong majority, but it's not unanimous.

I didn't understand your post. Others may not have understood either. Please clarify.

[jholder]

The North American Safety Council has documented that loud pipes do save lives. See their 2004 report titled "Safety issues related to decibel levels of motorcycle exhaust systems, Item 3 subpart C".
Even the poll on this website is virtually unanimous on this issue. What's the question?

According to the poll on this site, "Loud pipes make me angry. They are useless and annoying." according to 68% of the respondents. Only 6.8% say loud pipes save lives. Did you mean virtually unanimous in that most people according to this poll think loud pipes suck?

By the way, can you provide a link to that report? Google doesn't seem to be turning up anything useful on the North American Safety Council.

Ride safe,

[Rolling Thunder]

I was being facetious - humorous - playfully jocular. All tongue-in-cheek. ;)

[jholder]

I was being facetious - humorous - playfully jocular. All tongue-in-cheek. ;)

WHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHHH! That was the sound of it all going right over my head.... :D

[sherob]

He was just being vesuvius... :D

[georgeorge]

vesuvius?????:confused:

[sherob]

loud and facetious = vesuvius :D

[Putt]

He was just being vesuvius... :D

He was destroying Pompeii and Herculaneum with a pyroclastic outflow?

Putt...

[sherob]

He was destroying Pompeii and Herculaneum with a pyroclastic outflow?

Putt...

To much throttle on those straight pipes...:rolleyes:

[sherob]

Wasn't that the name of the Volcano that killed all those folks way back when?

George

New nickname of the 06 FJR with the expandable gas? :eek:

[Bones]

On a flight last Sunday I sat next to a woman from St. Augustine, FL. She mentioned that she loved her city except during Bike Week when all the bikers ride up from Daytona for a look-see. I asked why she didn't like that. You can guess her response: the noise. She told me that she and her neighbors hate motorcycles and the people who ride them (obnoxious, selfish, rude, etc.).

After she vented about loud bikes, I said that I rode a motorcycle, and that mine was probably as quiet as her car. I mentioned this very thread to her and suggested that a large majority of riders who participated would agree with her assessment of noise. I shared with her that the large majority of us wear helmets and proper riding apparel, and are students of riding technique, safety, and self-preservation.

She was genuinely intrigued at the notion that a clean-cut guy with a wife and family would ride a motorcycle. I wrote down links to some feature stories I've done and to the AMA so she can read their policy statement on loud pipes, suggesting (politely) that she learn more about motorcyclists other than the loud pipes crowd.

We moved on to other subjects and had some good conversation. When we got off the plane she made it a point to say thanks for openning her mind.

[sherob]

+1 Bones! :)