Notchy Shifting

[msev111]

I've searched on this but still want to ask if there's any specific advice. My symptoms are as follows:

1. Shifting is notchy/clunky, unless I get it perfect. Perfect means preload the shifter and even then sometimes it's a bit clunky.
2. It seems to shift better (pls don't laugh) when the bike is colder. For instance, when I first start out, I rarely feel it, seems very smooth. But when I get off of the highway to the streets before work, definitely notchy again.
3. First to second is the worst, the other gears. Also very clunky (audible "clunk") when I shift from neutral to first.
4. I would not say that it seems like something's broken. It feels like it's right on the borderline of an annoyance and "wrongness". I'm not at all convinced that there's something wrong, the bike shifts thru the gears, doesn't pop out, etc.

I used to ride alot 15 years ago, but the 12000 miles in the last year are on the biggest bike I've owned and so I don't have a great frame of comparison.

I just can't seem to figure out the best technique so every time I ride at least at some point in the ride I'm thinking about it.

Any thoughts? Techniques? Mechanical solutions? I've lubed the clutch lever. Moved the big tube out of the way. Tried shifting fast, tried shifting slow. Just seems like it's part of the bike, but I'm hopeful that someone out there can give me some advice.

I run MX4T synthetic. Oh, also, the bike seems to shift better if I keep it right at the top line in the window, and it does burn a bit of oil over 1500 miles or so.

[Mark]

I have a 'clunk' into 1st from neutral and 1st to 2nd can (and will) 'clunk' on the ST1100 too.
The N to 1 and 1 to 2 clunks will not go away; but, you're right preloading will help (or eliminate) the 1 to 2 shift problem.

Two thoughts:
1) Is the 'clunk' the same on new oil as on oil with a bunch of miles?

2) Some have found that different brands of oil make a big difference in the feel of the clutch/shift behavior.
Try a batch or 2 of dino oil and/or then try different syn (mobil 1 gold cap comes to mind) to check out the different feels. I notice a differnce between Rotella and M1GC and I like the feel of M1GC a lot better.

The only other option would be to switch to the ST1300, I don't notice any clunking on the shifts on it... ;) :D

Mark

[dond]

MSEV..I assume you are refering to an ST1300 or at least a bike w/a hydraulic clutch..
I always suspect air/crap in the clutch circuit. Easy enough to bleed and I'm sure it needs it.

Let us know if that helps and would really like to be able to refer to you by name..Unless of course your name is MSEV :-) If so, how do you pronounce that ?

Clean proper oil, no air these bikes shift very smoothly.

[msev111]

Don D, my name is Mike S. Yep, I'm talking about my beloved ST.....

I am going to try the suggestions you and Mark gave, i.e., bleeding and different oils and will keep you posted. Much obliged for the advice.

[g17]

when I took delivery of my ST, it shifted smoothly. Changed the oil at 600 miles using Honda GN4? that the dealer gave me......clunky shifting began particularly between 1st and 2nd. At 3000 miles, changed oil to Rotella Synthetic and within 150 miles, it began to show a considerable difference in shifting, e.g. it became smooth again. 1st to 2nd is still not silk but it's no longer a nuisance either.

[B11RGER]

It sounds like someone has sneaked in to your garage and swooped it with a gearbox from a BMW.:D

[kgeisinger]

Mike,

I have the exact same shifting symptoms with my 2005 ST1300. I spoke to another ST (2004) owner last Sunday during a ride and he said that his bike does the same thing also. I have 2100 miles on my bike and I plan on switching to synthetic next season. I took it to the dealer and explained the "problem" and the service manager said that there's nothing wrong with the bike. He looked at me as if he was going to say that there may be a loose nut behind the handlebars (aka the rider).

In conclusion, it also seems that the only way that I can avoid the first-to-second gear clunk is to preload the shifter and shift between 4000 to 5000 RPM. I agree that it shifts better when the engine is cold. The other ST rider I spoke to had stated the same thing. I still wonder if there's something out of adjustment with the external shifting linkage, so I bought the shop manual and I will check the specs (as if I know what I'm doing). I recently started to wonder if the kid in the shop assembled it properly due to the fact that the side stand fell off about two months ago as I was parking it in the garage (!). :eek:

In conclusion it seems that you are not alone in this dilemma.

Kurt

[BillA]

Like several ST-1300 riders I too had the clunk early on. When I switched to Rotella 15w40 dino it all but went away unless I was careless. That said, I do preload the shifter and typically shift at 4000 rpm. I also change the oil on what most people would call an excentric pace (30 miles, 300, 600, 1000 and 2000 once I hit that mark). End result...Feels like an automatic transmission when driven gracefuly.

[saaz]

I have an ST11, and relatively it is more 'precise' in its gear change requirements than I am used to (I have had a GS1000 for 25 years). Preloading the shifter and quickly snapping the clutch makes changes painless. When I revert to slack mode and just dab at the shifter thats when the shifting goes less smooth. Seems to be a Honda gearbox trait so most people say. When cold it is smoother but needs a bit more of a prod. The oil being thicker when cold does this on all bikes. The gearboxes do last forever mostly, so nothing other than perhaps a bit more noise is the problem.

[msev111]

It is nice to know that at least I'm not crazy...at least not on this issue. Appreciate all the responses. If I find anything that improves it I will report back. On the linkage, I have poked around there looking for problems quite a bit and haven't found any.

BTW, I have to say that I absolutely love this board. You folks are a great group.

[DaveH]

I've got about 1200 miles on my new 05 ST now and have noticed the "clunks" between N and 1st also. But with 23 years of riding V65 and V45 Sabres, the ST is silk in comparison. When I bought my ST last month I instinctively preloaded the gear shift and was delighted on how smoothe it was. I don't think it's anything to worry about but when shifting starts to feel "sticky" it's an indicator that it is probably time to change the oil.

[Ken]

My 1st to 2nd gear shifts were a little 'clunky' in the beginning. Once over 5K miles and now having switched to Mobil Gold Cap Synthetic, it's smooth as butter.

[Carl_T]

I had found different oils giving different results all they way from the need to preload to very smooth shifting without preloading.

[sherob]

I had found different oils giving different results all they way from the need to preload to very smooth shifting without preloading.

I have to agree with Carl... clunky shifting with Honda oil... smooth shifting with M1G 15/50. Big difference more than likely is synthetic... but M1G seems to work great for my baby. ;)

[texxter]

I own an '05 ST and shifting is silky smooth up and down with the exception of 2nd to 3rd, which is clunky sometimes. If I preload the shifter, or if the engine is cold, or the stars are aligned... the shift is very smooth. Don't seem to happen shifting down from 3rd to 2nd. I am using Mobil Gold Cap, btw. I decided not to worry about it.

[miller205]

I switched from Mobil 1 to Rotella Synthetic and noticed a significant improvement in shifting smoothness for all gears in my ST1100. The biggest diffreence was when the bike was cold. I used to get an embarrasing clunk when I first put it into gear, but no more with the Rotella....

[UNTMatt]

Mine is a bit 'clunky' in the lower gears as well (mainly on downshifts but a little on upshifts). Castrol Actevo 10w40 is the oil I'm running. Found preloading to help with shifts. Since the bike is under warranty for the next 7 years, I'm going to try to keep mother Honda happy by using motorcycle specific oil. Unfortunately, it's all insanely expensive with the exeption of Actevo 10w40 which is just slightly less painful to my wallet.

[Actionfigurejoe]

Oils did make a difference for me. The bike was broken in on Valvoline Motorcycle oil (mineral). Swithed to Amsoil 10W40 motorcycle oil and felt a noticable decline in shifting performance. Finally settled on Mobil 10W40 MX4T. Very smooth shifting since.

[BigTom]

I have found an oil difference, but much more a physical difference.

Which boots/shoes I wear makes the biggest difference. The boots I wear to work are stiffer than my riding boots, and I shift better in them. I have to wear sneakers from time to time for work, and they are the worst. It seems, for me, that getting the lever up or down in one smooth movement makes a big difference.

I have about 3000 mi on my ST1100n now. It seems to get better with experience, too:)

[Blrfl]

Try a small adjustment in technique. I find that preloading the shifter and only pulling the clutch lever in just far enough to get everything spinning at the same speed gets me nice, smooth shifts. For me, about a quarter of full travel works. Try it slowly a few times between 2nd and 3rd and at the right spot you'll feel the shifter give way and the shift will happen.

Oil also made a difference for me. Rotella T dino was an improvement over what Honda filled it with, and the synthetic was an improvement over that.

--Mark

[Ken]

I find that preloading the shifter and only pulling the clutch lever in just far enough to get everything spinning at the same speed gets me nice, smooth shifts.--Mark
+1 Also, a quick, firm toe does wonders for shift smoothness.

[Tor]

I have to agree with Carl... clunky shifting with Honda oil... smooth shifting with M1G 15/50. Big difference more than likely is synthetic... but M1G seems to work great for my baby. ;)

Same here. Mobile 1 15W50 goldcap. It still clunks (every now and then) 1.st to 2.nd. Also if you are coming into a redlight and shifting to 1.st with a to high speed on the bike, same clunk down to 1.st. Got 9500 miles on my 05. I still remember the day I picked her up, coming off a cruiser,,,,,,,man this shifter is tight,,,,almost no slack at all,,,,incredible.

[UNTMatt]

Same here. Mobile 1 15W50 goldcap. It still clunks (every now and then) 1.st to 2.nd. Also if you are coming into a redlight and shifting to 1.st with a to high speed on the bike, same clunk down to 1.st. Got 9500 miles on my 05. I still remember the day I picked her up, coming off a cruiser,,,,,,,man this shifter is tight,,,,almost no slack at all,,,,incredible.


I found that waiting until I was below about 25 mph, putting her back into first at a stop eliminated the clunk (or grind).

[MidLife]

My shifter used to be very smooth, requiring little pressure, no clonks, no problems between 1st and 2nd.....until getting it back from the dealer after repairs. Then it was hard, notchy, with lockups in lower gears.

Must be the "oil effect" others are talking about, because the dealer had replaced my Mobil1 15W50 Gold Cap with the Honda GN4 10W40!

After 2000 miles with the GN4, shifting is still notchy but lock ups are less frequent. I'll still go back to Mobil1.

[SeaFunMan]

I have Exactly the same complaint. If the dealer let me ride the ****ing bike before I bought it I wouldn’t have,

[Darth Vader]

What exactly does it mean to preload the shifter? Am I missing out on one of the great secret wonders of the motorcycling world?

BTW, the Honda oil that gets complained about is produced by Exxon-Mobil, who, correct me if I'm wrong, also produces Mobil1. I'm using the GN4 but after my next oil change will try the Mobil1 full synthetic. The way I see it full synthetic > synthetic blend > dino.

[Blrfl]

What exactly does it mean to preload the shifter? Am I missing out on one of the great secret wonders of the motorcycling world?

You are indeed... Preloading means to put pressure on the shifter before disengaging the clutch. It doesn't take a lot, and as I said before, the shift will happen smoothly and quietly when the transmission reaches a point of neutral torque, where there's equal torque being applied through the clutch and the output shaft and there's effectively no load on the gears. Works like a charm for upshifting; I don't find that I do it much when I downshift.

In some instances, you'll find that the transmission will reach neutral torque and you'll get a smooth shift with the clutch still fully engaged. When that happens, the proper procedure is to grin like a madman and think to yourself, "dang, that was cool!" :D

BTW, the Honda oil that gets complained about is produced by Exxon-Mobil, who, correct me if I'm wrong, also produces Mobil1.

Oil producers make oil pretty much to order. Just as you can go into Starbuck's and order a half-caf, ham, spam and cheese latte with two shots, Honda supplies E-M their recipe and they brew it up. Any of the other makers could do the same for them.

--Mark

[Darth Vader]

In some instances, you'll find that the transmission will reach neutral torque and you'll get a smooth shift with the clutch still fully engaged.

I've never done this before and must try it. However, I must ask, how do you know when you've put enough pressure on the shifter during the preload? I don't want to start grinding the gears

[Killtimer]

I've never done this before and must try it. However, I must ask, how do you know when you've put enough pressure on the shifter during the preload? I don't want to start grinding the gears

You don't have to worry about grinding gears.... the tranny is constant mesh. With the right preload you can easily upshift by just cutting the throttle momentarily..... no clutch needed. It's not recommended by most, :) but that's the perfect amount of preload IMO when using the clutch. Start with light pressure and work up slowly. HTH

Edited for correct terminology as noted by Don below.

[dond]

No syncros...A good read:

http://www.dansmc.com/gearbox.htm

[Killtimer]

A good read indeed Don. I thought one thing and typed another. :o: