Stability At High Speeds

[kinzer1]

I read numerous articles, mainly in comparison, between the BMW R1200RT and the ST13. Several posts describe the ST as wobbly and unstable at speeds over 70 mph. The owners describe their feelings as being uneasy or nervous.

Did anyone experienced the above or had ever been in this situation? If so, what are some of the modifications that can be done to correct this problem?

[sherob]

Same as RC... I've run up to 120mph with no problems at all ;) I run 80-90mph everyday with and without topbox with no problems... the only times she has acted strange was when the rear tire was running low :cool:

[Pred8tor]

I've never noticed anything up to and perhaps slightly higher than 110.

[Killtimer]

Unstable...not in my experience. "Twitchy"?........possibly. The ST1300 with it's sportier (compared to some of it's competition) steering geometry and shorter wheel base is very sensitive to steering input, wind conditions and road surface. You can't relax as speed increases, but you can start to over control it if you're not careful. Proper rear pre-load and tire pressure are critical. There have been some reports of high (100 +) speed weave under certain heavy load conditions, usually with a top box installed and the shield in an upper position. I experienced a high speed weave once on my previous '03. Lowering the shield cured it immediately. HTH

[805gregg]

I've gone 135 GPS straight and true, then again I've hit over 125 with cross wind and top box with bad wobble, I think both combo of top box, large windscreen and cross wind is not good.

[Kempo-STer]

Yes had the wobble at 80MPH when I...

First put the Hondaline top box on.

3 things solved the problem:
1. Rider input..The faster I went, the tighter I was holding on..(higher speed, more wind hitting arms and that energy would transfer into the bars. I made myself relax

2. Tire Pressure

3. Suspension way too soft..Cranked it up and what a difference

Indicated 140mph with one hand on the bar.(relax only for a couple of seconds).straight and smooth as can be.

I still get smoe movement from time to time but high crosswinds are always present when this happens.

[kingprawnokay]

I experienced a slight weave at about 120mph with a pillion and fully loaded bags and topbox. The bike was probably overloaded. Undoubtedly, any bike will handle a little strangely under these conditions. I've never experienced difficulties above the ton while one up with little to no load.

What was said previously about tire pressures is spot on (for any bike). Ditto, the statement regarding steering geometry and wheelbase. The ST has a relatively short wheelbase and quick steering which may not instill confidence in a straight line at high speeds, but other tourers (as well as some sport bikes) struggle to keep up in the twisties. I've never been on a bike that felt more stable full tilt on a sharp disappearing-apex-left-hander. Aim and shoot.

[Fireball18]

I've had my ST1300 up to 135 mph and experienced no instability, and I had a very large windshield and Givi E52 topbox on it. In windy/gusty conditions I could feel the wind pushing against the bike, but no problems. Yes, the tighter you grip the bars the more input goes into the bike, translating into "twitchiness" or instability. The worst I ever felt it was getting blasted by extremely high winds from a huge thunderstorm I was trying to avoid in Wyoming earlier this summer. It was probably the most frightening experience I've ever had on a motorcycle. I say this because if you've ever gone down, it happens to fast to be frightening!

I think the keys to stability on the ST at high (or any other) speed is maintaining proper tire pressure and keeping the suspension firm, as well as a properly distributed load if you happen to be travelling.

[Tor]

In dirty air (right behind, or getting ready to pass an 18-wheeler) with the topbox installed (I don't know how it reacts without the box, I always keep it on), I get,, not what I would call a weave, just fairy rapid very small movements (more like oscillations) from side to side. Nothing that bothers me at all. Its just as you penetrate that dirty air right behind and on the side of a big rig. In clean air, I have never felt any wobble with the box (or before I got the box) up to about 145 mph. I keep both tires at 42psi, and the shock cranked up high.

[g17]

above 120 mph many times and never any wobble or shake.

[Putt]

Have had mine to 140 (true) Hondaline top box...
In clean air, no weave, no wobble... No heat either... :)

Putt...

[wjbertrand]

I found out today that mine weaves and wobbles and is quite unstable feeling even at speeds as low as 65 mph with "0" PSI in the rear tire:eek:

Made it to work by limping it in and plugged it. Sure hope it holds :bow1:

[Louie Louie]

140 and no problem!..In fact, could not believe it was so fast and smooth.

[vintagemxr]

I've had my '05 with the Hondaline top box on it up to an indicated 143 mph on a somewhat rough road (or it felt rough at 143). It didn't feel real great at that speed, not nearly as secure as my old Aprilia Falco, but it wasn't bad. Since adding the top box the bike does seem less secure feeling but not enough to make me want to pull the box. And mostly I don't ride around at 100+ mph although I do wick it up regularly for short distances. Living in the desert and in a semi-rural area has it's advantages.

I've thought about popping off the top box and doing a full on high speed run one of these days. There is lots of new pavement in our area and some of it needs to be broken in properly. :D

When I test road the '05 R1200RT I popped it up to 100 mph real quick and it felt fine. Can't say above that speed though. Given the chance I'd be happy to find out though as I love to go very fast.

[NormanPCN]

I you have the rear preload setup reasonably well you should have no problem. I have a big *** windshield(+6W+2H), well vented, positioned in the lower half and the Honda topbox. Can't say as I can properly document every situation I have been above 100. By that I mean what the road and wind conditions were. You can read that as I am not at all concerned. It has wiggled once or twice if my memory serves me correctly. No way to pinpoint any specific culprit.

[kinzer1]

I guess the BMW enthusiasts can’t find anything wrong with the ST so, they make stuff up. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[Fireball18]

Jeff--Everyone knows you're supposed to check your tire pressures before every ride! 'Nuff said. LOL!:D

[wjbertrand]

Jeff--Everyone knows you're supposed to check your tire pressures before every ride! 'Nuff said. LOL!:D

Yeah but I'm a little challenged to check it whilst I'm riding! Maybe I should look into the smart tire system?

[tricky_micky]

Police Officer Killed in Manchester/Liverpool area on an St 1300

ALL ST1300's grounded.

We have to look into the stability of the ST1300 a little deeper than anyone could imagine

A Police Officer was killed in the UK recently whilst out on a training run on an ST1300! TRAGIC I am sure you will all agree, and my thoughts are with the family of the deceased officer.

The first thing the UK Police Forces would do on an excercise like this is to GROUND ALL ST1300's and perhaps quite rightly, pending an enquiry.

We can go deep into the subject of stability, and we all know the recalls Honda have made since the inroduction of the ST1300.

I, like some of yourselves, have ridden the ST1300 quickly and felt a little wobble at times whilst riding with the top box on. I put this down to air deflection and turbolence whilst moving forward.

We may never see speeds that these guys were doing (legitamtly) but we have to consider ALL of the factors surrounding the Road Accident. There has been little forthcoming of the outcome at the moment, and I can fully understand that as there is a very deep investigation going on.

What we must look at is that officer was out doing Advanced Police Training, training Police Officers to ride very fast but safely on Public Highways. You may think that is a recipie for disaster, but that is how Police Riders are trained, out on the public highways....Been there done that and worn the 'T' shirt.

I can turn the clock back to the BMW K100's when it was used by British Police Forces. There were a number of problems with that machine and there were a number of deaths reported by Police Forces in the UK, saying that it was the stability of the bike and it must have been rider error, according to BMW

BMW deinied ALL responsibility and put it down to the loading of the machine with pannier set up, radio and the addd ons. What a load of SHUT!

These bikes are tested to the capacity before they go into production for Police Forces all round the world. I think we should wait with intent until the outcome of the enquiry of this particular accident before we go off shouting about the stability and handling of the machine.

For the purpose of you and I, the ST1300 is stable and a complete machine. Honda would not sell a machine that would have so many problems, well, I hope not, for the simple reason is that the LAW suit facing them would be out of this world

On the K100 from BMW, they denied any knowledge of any problems with Wobble and Weave, they just passed the buck and blamned it onto the Polce Force and the loading. At least Honda are willing to talk, that is more than BMW!

Mick

[2005c6]

I'd be hard press to even guess how many times I've been over 130 mph (indicated). I'd guess at least 30 - 40 times. And it's been over 140 several times. Highest indicated speed has been 148. I have never felt uncomfortable at those speeds.

[mshihrer]

Ok, I can tell you I have been having a problem with this. It seems when I am on the freeway, gooves in the road and wind off other cars, trucks, etc. can cause the bike to wander. I really have a hard time keeping it in a straight line. Lowering the windshield seems to help, and also, I moved the windshield to it's upper position, that seems to help also. I suspect my real problems may be three things, though. One, the whole OEM tire issue (I had to replace my rear tire, and I got a non-OEM Dunlop), two, the Dunlop tires themselves, and three, the preload and damper settings are incorrect. However, on smooth pavement, the bike does not wander at all. BTW, I have an 05, non-ABS, just passed 2,000 miles.

[Tor]

And no red bricks in the left saddlebag at all???.......I swear......You didnt read the thread?.....about putting bricks...as many as you could fit....red ones worked best, Terry said...in the left saddlebag....or was it right,,,,not sure......opposite side of the way she was......is weaving.....what side was it that ........cured your weaving problem, Terry? ACL,,,,remember?

[MikeP1300]

Kinzer1;
If your information concerning the ST weave problem came from one of the beemer sport touring forums, some of you know the one, consider the source. Since my wife has a R1100 RT, I joined and gathered lots of good info on the breed.
I was a little troubled, though, by a thread that really bashed the ST1300 because of a perceived weave at speed problem. When I posted a response to the contrary, my post mysteriously disappeared from the board.:confused: Maybe I was a little un-diplomatic?. Anyway, just keep looking, do some test rides and then choose a tool that best does the job you need done.

The ST is a superbe sport touring machine designed to comfortably run long and hard. However, let's be realistic, if you what a race bike look elsewhere. :mcrider:

[naturally wired]

I would say its mostly the stock tires.....ask anyone with pilot roads .....my ride is rock solid past 140mph .....it loves speeds above 80mph.....in fact almost every time I look down at the speedo on the freeway its always over 80mph ....and it feels like 50mph!!!!!!!!!!........with the stockers on it ...the bike would follow every little crack and tar snake....plus cornering was unnerving(.)

[MikeP1300]

Hey Wired;
I have to agree with you on that sweet spot at around 90. Seems like that's where I'll end up if I'm not careful. Most leo's wouldn' t be very understanding, so be careful.

I've only used the oem bridgstone 020's (without any problems), but I'm switching to either the pilot roads (if available) or the Met z6 next set. Actually, I just installed a new rear 020. Man, you don't realize how flat the old one was until you ride a new round one. Feels like a new bike.

[rob.uk]

I had experienced "high speed instability" especially when the 'bike was heavily laden with holiday luggage in panniers and top box, plus pillion. Never as bad as a tank slapper, but definite weave and difficulty holding a straight line.

When doing the police "Bikesafe" course in the UK in Feb this year, the instructor introduced the "trainees" to a suspension tuning firm (Darren from Motorcycle Technics, Stowmarket).

http://www.mctechnics.co.uk/suspension/suspension.htm

Darren took one look at my '02 ST1300 plus me (at 108 kg) and said the front shocks were not sufficiently stiff to even support the bike's unsprung mass, let alone a 108kg rider, pillion and luggage. He did the work to stiffen up the front end by fitting 30% stiffer springs plus thicker oil. He said the rear shock settings were not too bad (I already had the preload 1 1/2 turns out from fully preloaded, plus damping as per the workshop manual). I've been riding with the newly sprung front end for 8 months and have had no more stability problems in that time.

I know that all the local police riders (in Suffolk UK) have their suspension modified specific to their weight and the weight of accessories carried on the vehicle. I wonder whether this policy is standard across the UK?

Either way, I know that the instability problems I had been experiencing were directly attributed to the front shocks being too soft for my weight. I can also believe the other posts saying that tire pressures on the low side will add to instability - this would make the existing undersprung and underdamped suspension (for heavy riders) worse.

Hope these thoughts are helpful in the discussion on stability.

Best regards,
Rob

[NormanPCN]

Ok, I can tell you I have been having a problem with this. It seems when I am on the freeway, gooves in the road and wind off other cars, trucks, etc. can cause the bike to wander. I really have a hard time keeping it in a straight line. Lowering the windshield seems to help, and also, I moved the windshield to it's upper position, that seems to help also. I suspect my real problems may be three things, though. One, the whole OEM tire issue (I had to replace my rear tire, and I got a non-OEM Dunlop), two, the Dunlop tires themselves, and three, the preload and damper settings are incorrect. However, on smooth pavement, the bike does not wander at all. BTW, I have an 05, non-ABS, just passed 2,000 miles.

Any tire with a front tread pattern like the D220 will wander on grooved highways. Reason enough to not use the D220. My D220's never lived a full life. I swapped them out early.

[kinzer1]

Mick,

Please let us know of the outcome of this investigation.

[kingprawnokay]

Here's more on the story. It was posted in an earlier thread.

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7242

[rob.uk]

The BBC news reports 11th & 21st Nov 05 are here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/4427354.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4457530.stm

The UK emergency services online BB has the ongoing story here:

http://emergencyservicesonline.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1897&pid=24376&st=0&#entry24376