What Do YOU Consider?

[tricky_micky]

As a Rider

What do YOU consider the most important part of 'Safe Riding'

[nurseBob]

As a Rider

What do YOU consider the most important part of 'Safe Riding'
Staying alive?:bow1:

More seriously, I "assume", when on the road with others, that they're all out to get me, and try to drive accordingly.

Bob

[Highrider]

Safe riding is a combination of discretion, discipline, experience and skill. There is no single aspect that can make a safe rider.

Dave
:biker:

[kingprawnokay]

I believe the rider's frame of mind/level of alertness plays the biggest role in safe riding. Practicing riding skills is important as well, but not as important as the overall mental/physical state of the rider.

Working with patients who've experienced traumatic brain injury as a result of motor vehicle accidents has given me certain insight into why some people crash. Many of my patients have expressed that they were taking out their aggression through riding or were tired and not mentally alert when the accident happened.

We really shouldn't ride when stressed, tired, angry, distracted, etc.

[nurseBob]

We really shouldn't ride when stressed, tired, angry, distracted, etc.
Uh oh... That means I should almost never drive at all.:eek:

[tricky_micky]

Staying alive?:bow1:

Bob

Hey Bob

You been listening to the Bee Gees again LOL

Staying alive, staying alive HA Ha ha ha!

:D
Mick

[tricky_micky]

Safe riding is a combination of discretion, discipline, experience and skill. There is no single aspect that can make a safe rider.

Dave
:biker:

Some good points Dave, but can we bring all of your points down to what is mentioned in the Poll!

Is it discretion, discipline, experience or skill. I could reply to that one and say:

"I ride with discretion and discipline and I have been riding with this in mind for 6 years. I go out as a Despatch Rider and I discipline myself to go out there and ride as fast as I can because time is money. I overtake everything I come across be it on either side of the vehicle and I dont care about safety because I am okay and blow the rest"

Does this may you a safe rider, me, I dont think so.

Lets look at the poll, will a fast bike make me safer, my positioning on the road, my OBSERVATIONS, or my best farkle.

Only posted this one a short time ago and it has got you all thinking already. That is cool and bringing out some good points.

Mick

[nurseBob]

Hey Bob

You been listening to the Bee Gees again LOL

Staying alive, staying alive HA Ha ha ha!

:D
Mick
That song is certainly in the old membry banks...:D

Didn't the Bee Gees also do a song about a mine disaster? I don't know the relevance, just one of those weird connections that music triggers...

[sherob]

That song is certainly in the old membry banks...:D

Didn't the Bee Gees also do a song about a mine disaster? I don't know the relevance, just one of those weird connections that music triggers...

Canary in a Coal Mine... Police :confused: You've been watching to much news...

I chose observation... thru it I can see what lane positioning I need to be in... how fast I need to be going... and what type of music I should be listening to on my favorite farkle, my MyFi :D

[crinteastwood]

Rob: It's the song New York Mining Disaster 1941 - "In the event of something happening to me, there is something I would like you all to see, it's just a photograph of someone that I knew"

The Police???? too funny - I almost had that canary song erased from the depths of my grey matter.
Mick:04biker:

[Bones]

With 20 years of riding experience I'm probably in the middle of the bell curve for experience among ST-Owners. I vote "observation" given the poll options, but there's more to it. For starters, I agree with David Hough's contention that you don't shoot to be a safe rider but rather a proficient rider.

Here's my take on what it takes to be a proficient rider:

Situational awareness, continually updated
Honest assessment of one's own skills and limits
Knowledge of and familiarity with the motorcycle
Appreciation of the physics governing motion, speed and traction
A rested body and a clear head
Appropriate riding apparel
Assumption that you are invisible to every else on the roadThere's probably more. What else do we have out there?

[nurseBob]

Canary in a Coal Mine... Police :confused: You've been watching to much news...

:D
New York mining disaster 1941

[B., R. & M. Gibb]
In the event of something happening to me,
there is something I would like you all to see.
It's just a photograph of someone that I knew.

Have you seen my wife Mister Jones?
Do you know what it's like on the outside?
Don't go talking to loud, you'll cause a landslide, Mister Jones.

I keep straining my ears to hear a sound.
Maybe someone is digging underground.
Or have they given up and all gone home to bed,
thinking those who once existed must be dead.

Have you seen my wife Mister Jones?
Do you know what it's like on the outside?
Don't go talking to loud, you'll cause a landslide, Mister Jones.

In the event of something happening to me,
there is something I would like you all to see.
It's just a photograph of someone that I knew.

Have you seen my wife Mister Jones?
Do you know what it's like on the outside?
Don't go talking to loud, you'll cause a landslide, Mister Jones.



You're right, too much news...:eek:

[seiseman]

Of the choices- Observation.
"IPDE"

Although I like Bones' list.
Steve E :03biker:

[Blrfl]

Of the choices- Observation.
"IPDE"

Or SIPDE, for which I have a slightly different definition (http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6749).

--Mark

[newbornst1300]

Poll choice observations.
You must be constantly aware of your surroundings when you are riding and adjust your riding style accordingly.
A clear mind also helps but I can only get that after riding for a few miles.

[tccox]

Hmmmm, after my two incidents in the past year , keeping a close eye on my rear view mirrors while stopped at a stoplight or stopsign to see if some moron is about to plow into me

[Pred8tor]

I chose observaton, but I can see where observation just provides information, and it's the acting on that information that helps provide safety.

Fast can be good, but fast can also get you in trouble faster. Especially too fast for conditions.

Farkles can even help - imaging the rider who is trying to read his map while he's riding - if he had a good GPS he could keep his eyes on the road. Or farkles that improve comfort can also prevent distractions, which is a good thing.

Positioning on the road can put in in a place where you are more aware of what's happening up front - which also enables observation. A double score there! Of course, a poor position can be very dangerous as well.

So I suppose it depends on what you really mean by those four choices. :hyp1:

[sokay]

My extra mirrors are precious beyond words. Beyond that, paying attention is important. Just a few nights ago, I started to follow the car ahead of me into a left hand turn. Like a ROBOT! A voice, promted by my Guardian Angel, if such things exist, said to me, "I am driving my own bike." So I cut off the gas and let the guy go. Whaddyaknow but a car was exercising his right of way to keep going straight through the intersection at about 40mph with the intention of cutting right behind my dear leader. I had unconciously ASSUMED that we were turning on a greeen arrow. Which was not the case. My Lesson: No matter how long I've been riding without an accident, no matter how sober and wide awake I think I am, nothing but nothing is going to save my butt if I stop paying attention for a minute.

[BluesCityST1300a]

Expect the worst from the drivers around you and you wil never be dissappointed.

[CrashTestDanny]

Lots of great points here, but having just been through it, let me share my squidly insight...

Blrfl posted a link to a thread that contained the phrase "Discovering that I lacked sufficient talent to handle a 5 MPH hairpin at 25 with the front wheel in the air, I wrecked."

My situation was a little different: "Discovering that I lacked sufficient talent to handle a 70 MPH sweeper at 30 MPH with my head stuffed up my butt, I wrecked."

Experience is important. Having good equipment (motorcycle, gear, everything) is important. Knowing the road conditions and your capabilities is important.

But actually having your mind engaged on the task at hand is critical. That's what IPDE and SIPDE are all about (Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute). Every one of those functions requires your mind to be alert and actively engaged in the riding experience.

My mistake? Call it what you want, but I did not have my mind on the ride. I had taken that same turn at 80 or better many times and I never had a problem with it. Doing the speed limit this day, I could not handle it - because I was thinking about my toe, my doctor, my car, work, whatever. Tires, road conditions, speed all had nothing to do with it - if I had had my mind on my riding, I'd have not buggered up my bike.

[Doobage]

I'd say not fooling yourself is probably one of the hardest aspects to riding.

How many times have you got on the bike and said something like, "It's not raining that hard", "It's not too cold" or worse, "I've only had two beers".

The moment you start trying to argue with yourself about a potentially bad situation (self manifested or environmental)...you really need to step back and think if there are other options rather than convincing yourself it's okay to ride. Usually those arguements are very short and the Id always seems to win.

Most of the time elements of pride, greed, or self-peer pressure will prevent ourselves from making the right decision.

Unfortunately when were successful in those situations we only support the arguement the next time we are faced with that decision. The problem is that the variables aren't always the same.

For this reason, I have decided that one of the worst "decision" making times is when I've had a beer. I don't doubt that anyone of us could ride an ST well after having 3 or 4 beers. The problem is that it's not our riding skill that is in doubt. The problem is in paying attention to others and the reflex time that has diminished in response to the unknown. I have ridden many times without any incidents (no near misses, no bad weather, or road obstacles)...but the few times those do happen, I need all the reflexes possible. So rather than try and have my Id win an arguement after drinking a beer or two, I simply have said that I won't drink and ride, regardless of how little unless I sleep at the locations where I am drinking.

Sure there is the rule of 1 unit of alcohol per hour (the rough average of what your body is able to filter)...however this does not account for fatigue. So even if you drink 3 beers and wait 3 hours...you might be 100% alchohol free, but your body will be less alert.

This rationalization doesn't need to be limited to alcohol, but other factors should be big limiters...Some are more obvious than others and I've noticed that many people on the board have stated theirs at one time or another (no riding under 32F, No riding at dawn/dusk in deer infested areas, etc...) By creating a fixed set of rules, it makes it much easier to win the arguement.

So the next time you are staring at your bike and thinking, maybe I shouldn't ride at this moment, take extra pause to see if it would be better to take advantage of the moment and perhaps use a "cage" to manage the days affairs and maybe haul away that junk you've been meaning to do something with that you can only take in a car.

It doesn't mean your whimping out, it means your living to ride another day. Besides, they'll be plenty of times where you have no other option but to ride in a bad situation (emergency or what have you) so don't feel like your missing out.

[tricky_micky]

Cool thread!

From the posts at the moment and riders comments, it appears that OBSERVATIONS is coming to the top of the poll.

That is good news. I know we all have different outlooks as to what we think, do or whatever, observations is running tops. I like that, but will let the poll run a little bit more before I go along with a further thread from the comments made.

Good to see the differences and comments in your posts. If you wish, as we go through, I will take you back to square one, and start you off as if you were considering being a motorcycle cop over here in the UK, you really are took back to basics, the sh*t! is knocked out of you and the building commences, it does not matter how good you are, they bring you quickly back down to earth!

Mick

[wjbertrand]

If you aren't paying attention (observing) then nothing else matters, so I took this as a given. All else being equal in that case then, it would be road position that matters most.

[tricky_micky]

If you aren't paying attention (observing) then nothing else matters, so I took this as a given. All else being equal in that case then, it would be road position that matters most.

Okay Jeff

I will go along with what you and others are saying, and from the posts and comments, Observations play an important part of riding a motorcycle, indeed it does.

I will start a few threads on how a motorcycle rider would come to the Police Training School over here in the UK. It matters not if you have been riding for years, or you are just a newby on a bike, they bring you straight back to the basics.

Normally over here, riders would pay a lot of money for what information I will pass on, we all have our opinions of safe riding, but I will try and talk about the 'System', Riding Plans, Observations and observation links and so on.

Watch this space!

Mick

[Medicine Bear]

Normally over here, riders would pay a lot of money for what information I will pass on, we all have our opinions of safe riding, but I will try and talk about the 'System', Riding Plans, Observations and observation links and so on.

Watch this space!

Mick

Mick, what makes you think we wouldn't pay a lot of money for it? You may be passing up a great career here in the USA. Think about how cheap the ST's are over here!

I can see it now:

Tricky Micky's Riding Academy

or

How to pass a toffee in the middle of scraping your peg...

And you've already got a built in clientèle.

Fred :03biker:

[the_suspector]

I agree with what Mark had posted:
"The traditional definition of "SIPDE," (Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute) has been revised to mean "See Idiot, Plan Dodge, Escape.":D
Although, there is a lot of food for thought here. I think I'll go for a RTE.

[tricky_micky]

I agree with what Mark had posted:
"The traditional definition of "SIPDE," (Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute) has been revised to mean "See Idiot, Plan Dodge, Escape.":D
Although, there is a lot of food for thought here. I think I'll go for a RTE.

There are quite of few of these 'SIPDE' etc.

UK Police use 'IPSGA' (Information, Position, Speed, Gear, Acceleration')

I do work for other County Councils and they want me to use 'COAST' (Concentration, Observation, Anticipation, Space, Time)

I almost came over to the US last year to survey if it would be worth me coming out and taking up Advanced Training in the US, it just got too busy over here which I cant complain about!

Anyway, better get off and get off to work....it is wet, miserable and cold here, and I have got a full day on the bike...YUK. Good thing is, I will be using the CB500 and the ST can sit in the garage until tomorrow (Thursday).

Catch you all later.

Mick