Fuel Injector cleaner recommended?

[curmudgeon]

I'm reading "Motorcycle Fuel Injection Handbook" by Adam Wade. He recommends using fuel injector cleaner on a regular basis. Does anybody do this? I usually try to use Chevron, and I think the Techron may eliminate the need to do this. Although it still may be a good idea to occasionally add some to the fuel tank.

By the way the book is a very comprehensive manual on how the systems and sensors work. It even talks about the historical progression of EFI designs. Turns out the first truly modern EFI was on the 1983 Honda CX650 Turbo. The book also discusses the dual butterfly intake, and how it helps eliminate the overly sensitive throttle off idle. The second butterfly is computer controlled and driven by a stepper motor. This is what they should have used on the ST1300.

Phil

[dond]

Techron additive.

I get a 20oz jug and at one ounce per gallon I can do my car and bike.

I just treated my car only cuz it was starting get that lumpy idle. About every 12000 miles the car needs a shot.
17 y/o old and runs smoooth.

[Horst]

I'll second Techron from Chevron ...

This stuff works miracles ...

and, my Oil & Gas funds are skyrocketing ! .... whoo hoo ... ;)

[Killtimer]

I usually run a treatment through my bikes every spring, after they've sat for a few months, even the KLR. Did the same on the boat when I had one.

[yoitsmatt!]

general motors has spent alot of time and money reserching fuel issues, let my try to hit the high spots of what i have been taught:

there is huge differences in top tier fuels and second tier fuels, top tier are exxon, chevron,mobil,bp,etc. second tier is race trac, wilco alot of convenience store brands,most warehouse club brands, we have many fuel injector deposit problems from these second tier fuel, missfires, rough idle, stopped up converters, deposits on o2 sensors, water in fuel tank, rust in rails etc. and however confusing it is GM does not recommend maintainace fuel injection cleaning, but they do have a recomended procedure to free stuck injectors and have stated that techron as the only cleaning additive that they recommend!
not that i would say GM would talk out of both sides of thier mouth?!?
techron is available as an additive, and also it is in chevron and i think now bp super, im glad this thread started because bp is out of the way for me but i need to get anoth tank of super with my next fill up, i try to use the fuel with techron at least every 3 tanks to keep mine clean, i have heard of people running seafoam, marval mystery oil, even atf.

being a drivability guy i have often cleaned stopped up or poor spray pattern injectors and seen vast improvements, watched missfires go away and seen the fuel trim even back out, but on my bike id rather ride than work on it, and i really dont want to develope a cleaning procedure for an st so i think ill just watch where i get fuel!

[dond]

On a road trip (knowing better but..) I got gas at an out of way off brand STation AND premium (DOH!). Sure enough out in the middle BFE the ST let me know juST how much she likes water in the fuel.
:eek: NOT :eek:
I did not have any water absorbant additive with me but managed to get to a place that had some. Lesson learned.......Again :p:

[ligito]

I'm not sure but I think BP is second tier, in Oregon.
On the same list with Arco and others that I don't buy from.

I try to stick with Chevron, Shell and if available, Texaco (if there are any left since their merger with Shell).

I've had too much junk in the gas, over the years and will not buy from the cut rate stations.

Come to think of it, it's probably a good idea to carry some Techron on the bike, for emergency situations.

[NormanPCN]

On a road trip (knowing better but..) I got gas at an out of way off brand STation AND premium (DOH!). Sure enough out in the middle BFE the ST let me know juST how much she likes water in the fuel.
:eek: NOT :eek:
I did not have any water absorbant additive with me but managed to get to a place that had some. Lesson learned.......Again :p:

Got some of that water in gas thing at the Lake Elsinore Chevron station (the HSTA ride). Bike had no giddy-up. Blew a little vapor out the exhaust, both sides, once while passing so I was told. Everything checked out and been fine ever since. Figured it was a mild case of indigestion (bad gas).

One thing I just thought of. If you add a cleaner additive and you are on reserve(one bar) then if you add the additive first and then fill up the lower tank might be over concentrated in the lower tank. I know the instructions say to pour in the additive and then fill up since gas fill will mix the additive well. Dual tank system might change that sequence slightly.

[SteveST1300]

All our BP's here in NJ are now BP stations with AMOCO gas.:03biker:

[dond]

Sea Foam has a good reputation.
I do not underSTand the claim that Sea Foam removes water from gas. (From Sea Foam's ad)
It is my simple minded underSTanding that gas treatments used to "remove" water have alcohol in them. Alcohol will mix with water and allow it to be consumed along with the gas with minimal difficulty.
Perhaps we have an expert here to 'splain.
Talk slowly, I'm liSTening :-)

[George Radominski]

VW dealers sell BG 44K Power Enhancer for about $20 / 11oz. This cleaner is advertised to clean injectors, intake valves, ports, and combustion chambers. I was told by the dealer that VW is planning to sell it under VW name. BG is ISO 9001 Certified.

I used this product for the last 5 years as a preventive measure. Recently my wife’s VW New Beetle diesel started to smoke from the exhaust and after one tank treatment it stopped. Besides this specific example I must rely on VW opinion.

George.


http://www.bgprod.com/home.html

[nurseBob]

Sea Foam has a good reputation.
I do not underSTand the claim that Sea Foam removes water from gas. (From Sea Foam's ad)
It is my simple minded underSTanding that gas treatments used to "remove" water have alcohol in them. Alcohol will mix with water and allow it to be consumed along with the gas with minimal difficulty.
Perhaps we have an expert here to 'splain.
Talk slowly, I'm liSTening :-)
I think your supposition on ETOH, or another OH, and H2O is likely correct. For me, especially as ETOH get added to gasoline more often, and in ever increasing concentrations, is what the potential for damage to fuel system components?

[alan]

I try to stick with Chevron, Shell and if available, Texaco (if there are any left since their merger with Shell).


Texaco was bought out by Chevron. I used to own Texaco stock, they traded it for Chevron after the sale. The Chevron home page says: "Chevron Corporation, parent of Chevron, Texaco and Caltex, engages in oil and gas exploration; refining and marketing of oil, lubricants, fuels, ..."

Ride far and fast. :03biker:

[JReviere]

All our BP's here in NJ are now BP stations with AMOCO gas.
__________________
STeve STOC # 5079
2003 ST 1300
1984 V65 Magna

BP bought AMOCO several years ago. My older son works for BP. He was involved in the BP "take over" of the AMOCO Hq. in Houston. BP has a major refinery (formerly owned by AMOCO) in Texas City, TX. BP also bought ARCO (Atlantic Richfield) and consolidated it's holdings in the North Slope fields at Purdhoe Bay, Alaska. Since these events, BP has become a major player in the petroleum/energy business in the US. Though it has major holdings in Texas, I don't see BP retail outlets here. I have seen them in Louisiana, however.

There's been quite a bit of "brand consolidation" in the oil biz. Gradually, a lot of the old brand names are disappearing with their corporate entities being absorbed by bigger companies. Gone or going are: Texaco, Phillips 66, Arco, AMOCO, Mobil and others.

JR
394
03ST1300A
Lake Livingston, TX
(EXXON and SHELL own this area it seems)

[FL-STRIDER]

I have a neighbor who absolutely swears by Marvel Mystery oil / gas treatment. What is that stuff, it looks like atf. Anyway I tried it in my cars fuel system and I don't now if it was mind over matter however I would swear my car engine ran smoother. Do any of you techie know what this stuff is? And have any of you tried it in your ST? Does in clean injectors?

[nurseBob]

FWIW Ethanol (ETOH) is also "hygroscopic" - that is, it attracts H2O. Basically, it's so hygroscopic that you can't get "pure" ethanol outside of a lab; the highest normal percentage of commercially available ETOH is 90% (maybe 95% - memory is fading) or 180 proof (sometimes referred to as grain alcohol or everclear - either will get you into trouble quickly if consumed in any quantity). Isopropyl - rubbing- alcohol has similar properties. Both will burn and will also carry H2O with them.
In WWII the fighter planes (and tractors prior to that) would use water injection to increase power. The increase is not due to combustion, but to the conversion of water in the mix to steam. However, this is different from having water in the alcohol... Anyone ever thought about adding water injection to the mix for their ST???:eek: Do I see a new farkle???

[Killtimer]

In WWII the fighter planes (and tractors prior to that) would use water injection to increase power. The increase is not due to combustion, but to the conversion of water in the mix to steam. However, this is different from having water in the alcohol... Anyone ever thought about adding water injection to the mix for their ST???:eek: Do I see a new farkle???

IIRC the combustion chamber pressures this created were outrageous. Most engines could only stand it (injection) for short periods of time, sort of like an after burner for piston engines, in the fighters anyway. Did the tractors use water injection continuously, or just for short power bursts?

[nurseBob]

IIRC the combustion chamber pressures this created were outrageous. Most engines could only stand it (injection) for short periods of time, sort of like an after burner for piston engines, in the fighters anyway. Did the tractors use water injection continuously, or just for short power bursts? Also for short bursts; same problem with pressures; a great way to blow a gasket, or worse...:eek:

When I was a kid, several decades back, we had a 1938 McKormack-Deering (sp?) tractor. Hand cranked, steel wheels, no muffler, Russell-style seat, great fun to drive! It had the water injection "feature."

[Medicine Bear]

I used to fly the Merlin Metroliner and it had alcohol/water injection. In a turboprop (or pure turbine for that matter) the alc/water injection cools the engine temps down and allows higher torque settings. We used it for every takeoff when outside air temp was above freezing. I seem to remember we would go through the 21 gallon alc/water tank in about 6 minutes. You had to be really careful you didn't run out in the middle of the takeoff as the engine temps would immediately spike above redline and molten engine would start coming out the back.

Fred :03biker:

[nurseBob]

...and molten engine would start coming out the back.
Fred :03biker:
I'm not a pilot, but I suspect that's not a good thing at any point while taking off, flying, or landing...:eek: :D

[nurseBob]

We used it for every takeoff when outside air temp was above freezing. :03biker:Interesting about the temp. My recollection from chem. was that alcohol, or any "adulterant," actually lowered the freezing point of water, thus the acetone/ice baths to cool other stuff. I wonder why the limitation for the aircraft?

[Medicine Bear]

Interesting about the temp. My recollection from chem. was that alcohol, or any "adulterant," actually lowered the freezing point of water, thus the acetone/ice baths to cool other stuff. I wonder why the limitation for the aircraft?

Overly concerned management and, I think, a/c manufacturer's recommendation. It was like lighting a small afterburner - you had to get both engines above a certain torque setting to make sure both engines got the mix at the same time. It "burned" about 6 - 7 gallons/minute. The way around the "melted engine syndrome" was to always top off the alcohol/water at each airport.

And yes, melted engine coming out the back is a "not good thing". A friend of mine lost an engine on his way to DFW from Texarkana nad made an emergency landing in Paris, Texas. From the point on he was known as Lucky Lindy. :D

Fred :03biker:

[Bribak]

Greg,

I also would like to hear what people say about MARVEL MYSTERY OIL. My Dad swears by it. He used it in his plane, all his cars, lawn mowers, etc..


Brian