Interesting R1 crash...

[Mellow]

Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aIasXHYDAk

Here's her posts about it:
http://socalsportbikes.info/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=34948

She kicks herself for not avoiding it by passing the guy but I'd have to admit I would have backed off too... They guy was an idiot.. if you screw up, admit it and let the insurance companies deal with it... I was an accident on his part even though he can't drive worth a damn.. He should still be a man and admit his actions, whether intentional or not, cause the crash.

[Blue STreak]

Makes me wonder if I shouldn't get a camera / recorder on the bike, and just let it record continuously. Sort of a "black box" recorder in case something like that happens to me. I wonder, can you get endless loop video tapes, that record, say, the last 30 minutes, continously?

[ccryder]

It was the cager's fault but, she did about 3 things wrong that would have avoided the wreck:
1: She had no out to the right.
2: She was in the blind spot of the car on her right.
3: Even though she backed off on the gas, she never braked REAL hard. Riding an R1 she should have been doing a stoppie if she was REALLY breaking!

The cager that caused the accident was just stupid but, the bottom line is the motorcyclist was the one to suffer.

200% defensive driving is the ONLY way to go. I had a cage switch lanes on me this morning on the 4 lane, while I was in my truck. If I had been snoozing, she would have hit me. She switched lanes for no reason and was almost tearful when I flased her and honked.

Later
Neil S.

[usdefcon1]

I also see that she sould have gone to the left to avoid the accident from what it looks like in the vid. But I must remind myself that these things happen so fast you hardly have time to hit the brakes sometimes you don't even get a chance to even do that much. I'm just glad shes OK and will do my best to learn from what I've seen.

[NCrider]

Come on guys, she did exactly what I probably would have done, and I have been riding bike for....35 years. She was on the brakes and moving away from trouble, there is only so far you can move, I think she went 2+ lanes.
There is only so much you can do and so far you can move, especially when a car is coming at you like that. Plus remember, 2 seconds from the car speeding away, it was on top of her. You really need to rethink what you would do in 2 seconds.

[Littlejohn64]

Come on guys, she did exactly what I probably would have done, and I have been riding bike for....35 years. She was on the brakes and moving away from trouble, there is only so far you can move, I think she went 2+ lanes.
There is only so much you can do and so far you can move, especially when a car is coming at you like that. Plus remember, 2 seconds from the car speeding away, it was on top of her. You really need to rethink what you would do in 2 seconds.

I agree. In hindsight, I can say that a million different choices would have been better, but when I go back to the first time I saw the video, my instincts took me exactly where she ended up. I probably would have faired even worse than her though, as she is track trained (she races) and her instincts took over at impact and she relaxed (I read through all her posts on the forum Mellow linked to), I would have been fightin the bike the whole way down. If I take anything out of this, it would probably be that.

[AZST]

What the F was the guy in the Civic thinking???

He was in the HOV and just locked em up ??

--Bryan
04ST1300A
STOC# 5197
:04biker:

[wjbertrand]

In her discussion thread on the R1 list she estimates her speed at around 50 mph. If you don't think things happen really fast at that speed, just stand beside a road with 50 mph traffic on it and think about it. I don't think she had as much time to think about it as the video makes it appear, particularly when you watch it more than once and are anticipating the event the second viewing. What was your reaction the first time you saw it before you knew what was going to happen? Remember that the first time through that there's significan time lag for most folks to complete the following:

1. notice something unusual happening - she may have had her attentions farther down the road or have been checking her mirrors at the exact time the pin head iin the car started to loose control.

2. There's some processing time to perceive the noticed unusual happening and then to percieve it as a threat that requires action.

3. There's decision and reaction time lags (2 of them) in there as one decides on the best course of action and then tries to react and execute that action.

[vintagemxr]

Tough call on what would have been the best avoidance tactic. I'm wondering about lane positioning left or right within the rider's own lane. The lane to the right of her appeared a little crowded so I going to arm chair quarterback here and suggest that she might have been better off to the left in her own lane to buy as much space as possible.

When I ride I always ask myself "Who can get to me?" (car-wise) and position the bike within my own lane to give maximum maneuvering space. I move back and forth within my own lane frequently or change lanes to stay in the most open space available. Even on empty roads I'll position the bike for best maneuvering room in case of a blow out or some freak thing like a deer darting out. Sometimes hitting or missing or running off the road is a matter of inches.

In the end, all you can do is ride using every tactic you can learn and then hope for the best. Given the odd circumstance (the totally uncalled for u-turn in front of her by the doofus in the Civic) and as a rider with forty years on bikes I can't say that I wouldn't have been caught out just like the Yamaha rider was because there are too many times when you just can't do everthing perfectly.

Kudos to the Yamaha rider though for being properly dressed for the unfortunate occasion.

BTW, some years back in downtown Phoenix, AZ I saw something similar happen except the lady pulled a u-turn to the left and right in front of a Phoenix PD motorcop. She left him no where to go except to get it slowed down before the slow get off from his KZ1000. He VERY unhappy when he picked himself up unhurt off the ground.

[henryw]

So, it looks like having a video camera continuously recording is a really good idea.
It looks like her camera was attached to her helmet (seems like a good idea to record where you're looking).
Anyone know how to go about setting this up (for the electronics challenged).

Thanks, Bill

[tdeboeser]

Her camera is here:

https://helmetcamera.com/store/products.php?cat=10

tom de

[Towjam]

Kudos to the Yamaha rider though for being properly dressed for the unfortunate occasion.
She's one tough cookie and based on her postings, has a great attitude about the whole thing - and is a webmaster of a sportbike site. What's not to love????

Oh yeah, she's easy on the eyes as well.
http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/images/Me.jpg

Signed,
SexiST, and proud of it! ;)

[Louie Louie]

What made the F_______G Civic do that. Looks like he made a 180 ??

[yoitsmatt!]

well the only thing i might have done differently is get up and kick that guys ***! he pulled the parking brake on the civic! in traffic! after watching it several times i think he was trying to take out a guy on a sportbike i think the video should be shown to the police, then he felt bad because he took out a pretty lady instead! im pretty sure there was no way out for her, she reacted like anyone else would, if you look he turned the wheels into her lane ,the option was try to get around the front or blast into the side doors/ rear quarter panel !after looking several times i didnt see any reason for his actions.....

[Towjam]

i think the video should be shown to the police, then he felt bad because he took out a pretty lady instead! ...Based on the thread on her discussion forum, she apparently is dating an ex-LEO and he makes an (unfortunately compelling) argument as to why this is would not be considered a criminal issue - basically, since there was no apparent malice on the part of the driver of the Honda. On the other hand, she has all the evidence she needs to clean him out in civil court - assuming he's not already been deported by then.

[Tiny]

That is almost EXACTLY how my accident happened in the snow on sat. night.....except I was in a truck and there were an extra 2 lanes between us. Scary how fast it happens!

[daddysbike]

From what I saw it looked like she had 2 good outs and should have been prepared for this to happen (the Civic was giving clues precious moments befre).
1. she should have went left, assuming she knew what was behind her and left like she should.
2. She should have used those powerful R1 brakes and been just short of being catapulted off the bike, but the video shows little to no braking.

Sorry to sound like such an Ahole, but blame means nothing when you're pushing up daiseys. As riders we should always be ongaurd for these moments, and yes I've had them and made the right choice and made into the opening avoiding the a.d.d. dimwit in the cage. I've come flying through the mtns in a corner to find an idiot making a Uturn in a van. I've been in a sharp corner in the mtns only to meet a huge Truck pulling a double wide trailer taking up the entire road, I looked to the right edge of the road and straddeled the 6inches of clean pavement I had to get by. On and on 20,000 miles yr happens all the time, the cages never catch me off gaurd so I don't freak when it happens. I do thank God for the close calls I have with skunks, deer, possums where its been mostly the grace of God and luck that I got away unscathed, I'm willing to take that risk but always expect the unexpected. I hope the good lord, luck and sometimes making the proper move keep me from telling my own horror story someday.
Did anybody see the editor of RoadRunner magazine who was killed an issue or two back? it says he never saw the truck coming. I don't know what happened but how can a skilled motorcycle lover who logs so many miles not see the truck? that makes me worry as I'm sure he was a good safe rider. I guess when its time its time, I'm just doing what I can to not rush it.
Ride safe,

Steve

[clickr]

It would be nice (sometime) but when it records a 110 mph quickie and the resulting accident, who's insurance will pick that up.

Cars are recording in little black boxes, someday motorcycles will have them.

[dond]

I hope if this ever happens to me that my firST responder has cleavage like that! :p:

[Wake ForeST]

Makes me wonder if I shouldn't get a camera / recorder on the bike, and just let it record continuously. Sort of a "black box" recorder in case something like that happens to me. I wonder, can you get endless loop video tapes, that record, say, the last 30 minutes, continously?


We mount something like that in Police cars. Record everything to hard drive - And DVRs are at the 80 hr range. There was a review of (I think) the designer of the new Corvette and a system he has in his car that records 360 degrees around the car, and if an "event" occurs, It emails him the last whatever size of file specified.

The technology is there, just get out your wallet.

[NCrider]

From what I saw it looked like she had 2 good outs and should have been prepared for this to happen (the Civic was giving clues precious moments befre).
1. she should have went left, assuming she knew what was behind her and left like she should.
2. She should have used those powerful R1 brakes and been just short of being catapulted off the bike, but the video shows little to no braking.

Sorry to sound like such an Ahole, but blame means nothing when you're pushing up daiseys. As riders we should always be ongaurd for these moments, and yes I've had them and made the right choice and made into the opening avoiding the a.d.d. dimwit in the cage. I've come flying through the mtns in a corner to find an idiot making a Uturn in a van. I've been in a sharp corner in the mtns only to meet a huge Truck pulling a double wide trailer taking up the entire road, I looked to the right edge of the road and straddeled the 6inches of clean pavement I had to get by. On and on 20,000 miles yr happens all the time, the cages never catch me off gaurd so I don't freak when it happens. I do thank God for the close calls I have with skunks, deer, possums where its been mostly the grace of God and luck that I got away unscathed, I'm willing to take that risk but always expect the unexpected. I hope the good lord, luck and sometimes making the proper move keep me from telling my own horror story someday.
Did anybody see the editor of RoadRunner magazine who was killed an issue or two back? it says he never saw the truck coming. I don't know what happened but how can a skilled motorcycle lover who logs so many miles not see the truck? that makes me worry as I'm sure he was a good safe rider. I guess when its time its time, I'm just doing what I can to not rush it.
Ride safe,

Steve


You ever hit full brakes with traffic behind you?

I didn't think so.

[Chuck]

Hi All I just read all the threads on that list - On it she calmly recounts why she did what she did.

Brakes when 100% braking you have 0% manoverability .

Brakes on a R1 work real good- better than the cars following her.

AND LETS FORGET HIND SIGHT who in their dayly lives expects a car to do a 180 on a straight leval road un-promped by trafic conditions.

Someone aqlso timed the thing- 2 seconds from brake lights to impact -1 1,1 thousand 2......

WE should always be aware of our surroundings but unfourtnatly we have risks most of which are out of our control.

Sat I went to the Bay area from Sacramento several times while trying to keep a safe distance I was cut off - cagers think space is a weekness!

once cut off in that instant I and You are at the mercy of thoes cars on either side.

You cant ride in their blind zone or beside them and if you leave a space like that 2 seconds- some one in a honda on the phone yelling at her kids and appling makup will plant them selves in your space. I hate the freeways.
And stupid people.

Chuck

[Allan_Leahy]

This is why I never ride in the center lane, you can get boxed in so easy. I ride in the far left lane where you usually have a brake down lane to run to.

[CrashTestDanny]

I watched that thing a ton. No way I'd have done any better starting from the point where he hit his brakes. Looks like she was going to pass him and something made her back off. My guess is it was the wall of traffic that was slowing down or stopping in front of both of them. It's easy to say she should have dropped back more, but I didn't see her mirrors and I'm not sure I'd have done better.

Good thing she had the video though, with that asshat saying that she hit him... Nice to see a good guy (or gal) come out ahead...

[STeve1300]

I hope if this ever happens to me that my firST responder has cleavage like that! :p:

...until now I was feeling a little guilty :D

[daddysbike]

You ever hit full brakes with traffic behind you?

I didn't think so.


So T-bone the car then? I'm sure that was the decision process.

Steve

[Blue STreak]

I think she hit her brakes. Watch the right mirror at the bottom of the frame dip out of sight just at the point where I would have hit my brakes. The camera was mounted on her helmet, not the bike, and most of us use our neck to compensate and hold our head fairly steady.

There's no way to tell how long she held them, or how hard, but I think it's wrong to claim she didn't brake at all.

I also think it's way out of line to criticize her for not swerving to the left lane. When the Honda locked it's tires, it was in the left lane, and heading toward the problem isn't common sense. And by the time the Honda started moving into her lane, she had virtually no time to react. And YOU don't know what was behind her in the left lane, so you can't make the assumption that it was clear. Pulling left and slamming on the brakes sounds like a good way to get rear-ended. I think those who criticize her have never been in an accident situation in busy traffic, and don't understand how quickly things happen.

The ONLY thing I'm pretty sure I would have done differently leading up to the accident is lane choice. When there's an HOV lane, I'm in it. And generally, I ride in the left lane of a multi-lane highway so that I only have to worry about traffic on one side of me. But maybe she had to get off at the next exit and was in the process of moving over.

[tdeboeser]

Her thread is now 21 pages long, and people from all over the planet are joining and posting. It's nice to see folks from both motorcycle and cars groups posting up support for her.

I've read most of thread, and she is so positive and nice, its refreshing to hear. Although I'll say the guy needs a beat down.

Tom de

[NCrider]

So T-bone the car then? I'm sure that was the decision process.

Steve

Better to T-bone, which she didn't by the way, than to be ran over.

You ever see what happens to a rider that gets hit from behind? Survival rate is not good.

Not wanting to pick a fight, just saying the first time you looked at the film what was your reaction? Yes after you see which car and what it does it's easy to criticize. But remember, 2 seconds, you don't know anything and give yourself 2 seconds to analize the situation, pick a course of action, and execute it.
First reaction is to MOVE AWAY FROM TROUBLE, not go toward it. You only have 100% traction on a bike, if 50% of it is turning then you only have 50% for braking. Look at how crowded the road is. My bet is there was traffic behind her also. Full on braking would have probably got her steam-rolled and she would most likely be dead now.
From my point of view, her biggest mistake was being on a bike in all that traffic. I avoid traffic like the plague, but sometimes it's just there and you have to do the best you can. Like someone above said, I like to have an outside lane so at least I can choose to take a ditch rather than a car.

My $.02

Peace

[Wahrsuul]

Looking at the video I can say I probably would have done the same thing.

It's all too easy to sit here and pontificate about what she should have done and what you'd have done. In my experience, what people say they'll do in a given situation and what they do when it actually occurs is not always the same thing. I like to think I'd have avoided the crash, but I know better then to assume I would.

[daddysbike]

I didn't mean to come across as such an Ahole, I usually don't ride in multi lane traffic (by design) and when I do, I try to make sure nobody is around me, in her situation that was unavoidable. I know things like that happen real quick, I wasn't there so I shouldn't judge so harshly. I'm glad she wasn't killed and is smart enough to wear full gear.

Keep those fingers over the front brake and know whats around you,

Steve

[rwl1955]

I never ride in the middle lane. No outs. I get paranoid when I`m boxed in.

The ***@#$% cager definately needs a beatdown. What was his excuse for the accident?

[NCrider]

I went and read some of her own thoughts, here is a quote from her.

"I've thought about this a lot and consulted a lot of other people about this and we've all come to the same conclusion - what I did was the safest and most feasible option. Now, the people I've consulted are AMA racers, expert WSMC racers, and other very experienced riders/racers - all with WAAAY more experience and skill than I. ...and they're not saying that to be nice to me - believe me, these people helped train me and they'll tell me if I was a retard to my face without hesitation.

Take a look at this thread I've created on my personal site - see if this answers your questions - http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2411#2411

One thing I WILL maintain no matter what anyone says is that I would still have gone right - not braking, not going left.

The biggest arguments for not going left is because
1. it would have been the longest route to safety since I was in the #1 lane and the Honda was in the HOV lane.
2. all he had to do to stop locking his wheels is just let off the brake - how difficult is that?
3. if he was swerving to actually avoid something - do you really want to go towards whatever it was he was swerving to avoid?
4. if you're full blown set on going to the left, you better JAM on it to make it...and if he had completed his 180 sooner and hit you - you would most likely go flying in the direction your bike was heading. In other words...your body would be carried, through momentum, to the other side of the freeway. Now, I'm pretty tough - but there's no way my body would survive getting hit by oncoming traffic at full freeway speeds like that.
5. It's truely not likely to even work - he's swerving and rotating to the right - if you swerve to the left...chances are very likely for a head on collision.
6. There are even less outs to the left than to the right. Going to the left, you have one lane (HOV), a tiny shoulder, a cement wall, and the other side of the freeway. To the right, you have several lanes and exits off the freeway - there are just more options. In THIS case, a car on the right blocked that off for me...but the theory still applies.
7. HOV was the fastest moving lane, to the right are the slower to slowest moving lanes...which do you think is better to go towards?

...I just feel there were a lot more reasons to not go left than to go right...you make your own choice.

...and if after reading all this, you still have questions, let me know.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dawn
Smooth Curves Racing

Evil Prevails When Good Fails to Act.
Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity.
"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. " - Andre Gide "

[AZST]

I hope if this ever happens to me that my firST responder has cleavage like that! :p:

I was distracted by that as well !!!

But since you mentioned it first....makes you the bigger 'dog' :D

--Bryan
04ST1300A
STOC# 5197
:04biker:

[mhscriven]

Check out the news story:

http://www.kfmb.com/flv/KFMBplayer-mini.swf

[Drew]

This is not a crtisism, just post accident observations/learning curve.

A few clues...

About 5-6 seconds before impact, the large RV in the 4 lane and the tractor trailer in the 5 lane are stopped. Traffic is backed up ahead, start slowing.

Passing the almost stopped white car to her right at a fairly good clip. I would expect drivers to "jump lane" unpredictably when their lane stops but yours is moving. Slow way down.

While I would not expect a car to do a 180 in front of me, the rapid slowdown of traffic is a daily occurance in metro area riding and happens frequently.

That momentary daydream or distraction can kill you in traffic. (not saying she was daydreaming)

Glad she's ok.

Drew