Nestoc

[Carl_T]

The event is close enough to consolidate postings here now for it.
Group Guidelines are posted on page 3 here now, it is too much text to put it in this post, please take a look, especially if you haven't ridden with us before

This is the link to the NESTOC website where you get info. on getting a room, reserve dinner, and sign up.
http://www.dacor.net/norton/moto/nestoc/

One thing I'd like to put up front here for new people joining us this year; we don't drink ANY alcohol whatsoever before or during the ride. That's none until after the ride (at which point youse does what youse does, or don'ts does, with a happy smile and good company).

As the event approaches closer I'll repost our group riding guidelines as a reminder, so we can operate safely and smoothly together.

I am leading a ride Saturday made up mostly of riders from this site. The bulk of us have ridden together before. I ask that riders new to us who haven't joined any rides with us as of yet, pay particular attention to the group guidelines we all agree to go by, so things can go as safely as they have in the past.


Those attending: (off the top of my head , and I'll add to it as you let me know).

AGSTreak............John.......................... ...........Silver ST1300... CT
Bones.................Scott (but really Bones)............Silver ST1300... MA
Carl_T.................Carl....................... ................Black SV1000....NY
Dawn_T...............Dawn......................... ............Black Ninja 250..NY
eddiemack............Eddie (Emack).........................Blue ST1300....NH
Jimmie & Maureen........................................... ... ? Gold Wing.....NJ
Kempo-STer.........Todd & Michele........................Red ST1300.....CT
Northeast Rider.....Brian................................... ...Red ST1300...PA
STeveST1300.......STeve & Maureen ....................Silver ST1300....NJ
TSMNDVL.............STan & Elaine............................Blue ST1300....NY
billyxp.................Billy and Danielle..........................Red ST1300....NY



The list for Friday's ride up to Cobleskill from my house:
AGSTreak................................John...... ................................Silver ST1300... CT
Bones....................................Scott (Uncle Boney to you)........Silver ST1300...MA
Carl_T.....................................Carl... ...................................Black SV1000....NY
Dawn_T...................................Dawn..... ...............................Black Ninja 250..NY
eddiemack................................Eddie (Emack)..........................Blue ST1300....NH
Kempo-STer.............................Todd & Michele.......................Red ST1300.......CT
Northeast Rider..........................Brian.............. ........................Red ST1300...PA
SteveST1300...........................STeve & Maureen....................Silver ST1300.....NJ
billyxp....................................Billy and Danielle..........................Red ST1300....NY

[Kempo-STer]

Count me in for Dawn's suppoer...Be right over....:D

Count me in also for the rendezvouz at your house..
Me is guessing that maybe Bones and I will hook up en route and then we hook up with Mr Silver Streak on the way to your house...

OH BTW..Its Chris and Sam from the great white north..

[Bones]

OH BTW..Its Chris and Sam from the great white north..

Remember, Todd, it doesn't count unless you say "Eh?"

[eddiemack]

The list for Friday's ride up to Cobleskill from my house:
Carl_T..................Carl...................... ................Black SV1000....NY

eddiemack............ Emack...................................Blue ST1300....NH
Unless of course I get that beautiful black Yamaha Roadstar 1700 that I was sitting on tonight.... who-ah!

[newbornst1300]

Hey Carl its bad enough that you can't remember Sam but you also got us on one of those not so fast blue's.:D
Good to see things are shaping up for this one.

[newbornst1300]

eddiemack............ Emack...................................Blue ST1300....NH
Unless of course I get that beautiful black Yamaha Roadstar 1700 that I was sitting on tonight.... who-ah!
You're not going to turn into one of those "Fair Weather" cruiser guys are you?

[Northeast Rider]

Carl,

If it's ok with you I'd like to join you Fri for the ride to Cobleskill. I'll be coming up 87 thru your area anyway...

Brian

[GRN]

...........................don't know yet... probably, maybe possible depending kinda thing... ya know? I'll up the probability if ya promise to wear yer robe man... like while on lead :eek:

Anybody heard from campernh (Brian) lately?

[CarSalesman]

Carl: CarSalesman = Don & Robin, ST1100.

Not sure what "riding with us" means? Are you talking about the loop on saturday?

[eddiemack]

You're not going to turn into one of those "Fair Weather" cruiser guys are you?
Be nice Chris!!!.... I really have to stay out of the showrooms...

[newbornst1300]

Be nice Chris!!!.... I really have to stay out of the showrooms...
It is pretty easy to to get hooked on that shiny new stuff and us Northeners have to be careful this time of year when PMS is at its peak.
I just stay clear of the showrooms to avoid temptation.

[SteveST1300]

Brian Maureen and I will be coming up 87 as well not exactly sure of the timing yet but stay tuned we will get all the details worked out. What time would we be sooting for to be at Carl's?:03biker:

[Bones]

What time would we be shooting for to be at Carl's?:03biker:
About the time the pig is ready, of course!

[Northeast Rider]

I'll stay tuned, we can figure backwards from the hook up time with Carl.

thank you, and do your taxes.

[Carl_T]

Sorry Todd, I ate your portion the minute I hit the kitchen :o: Glad you guys are coming Fri T-man STeve's Stayintune pipes will be warmed up and prepared to inflate your uniform up to operating temperatures. :D I've got me a new red (well, part red) Scorpion helmet to go with my Cardinal jacket, so you won't miss which direction I go in. Also keep us posted on that Reg Pridmore school you're doing, as to what you thought of it.

Ehhh??? what's that Bones? You are bringing the roasted pig all done up for lunch? COOL!

Glad you can make it Fri. Eddie. Bring that bad boy 1700 if you get it. Just remember, you're supposed to pick me up one of whatever you buy as a donation to the Cardinal for leading. Since that's the case, I hope you are going to lots and lots of showrooms this weekend :rolleyes:

Tell Sam I'm sorry for the brain fart Chris, they happen a lot with names and me. I have a picture of everyone in my head, just don't ask me to put language to them 'cause that neural bridge never got built past footpath levels. :confused: As to the color blue from silver, I was just trying to give you an upgrade :duck: Oops, too many silver guys here to mess with.

Either day Don, I hope you will join in at least for Saturday.

Brian, just know that we take the long way up and some of it is on some winding secondary roads so we'll be riding until a bit after 5 (with brief rests and lunch). If you want to come Fri. take the straight, smooth, fast, least energy sapping route you can figure out to get to my place so you won't over tire.

[Carl_T]

As to Friday Morning I'm thinking arrive my place about 10AM right now. That way a bit of a rest and bathroom break can be had. Arrive at my house with enough gas in the bike to do 107 mi. (I’ll have to stop at that point with only a 4 gal. tank.

I have 2 routes in mind, but I have to check out the Goat Trail for suitability as far as 2 up riders go. I'm strongly leaning toward ditching that one as it's so steep it's likely not suitable for two up rear biased weighting and I’ve got another route that will be nice.

I want to know for Friday, do you guys want to eat at the Gilded Otter again? :eat1:
A cheap Pizza spot instead (small little place but best Pizza in the area), or do you want another place to eat besides the Otter, a tad more upscale than Pizza (I have a feeling Bones will be leaving the roasted Pig :pig1: home). :D

[Bones]

Gilded Otter has sentimental value...first place we all broke bread as a group. Or in my case, mussel shells.

[newbornst1300]

As to Friday Morning I'm thinking arrive my place about 10AM right now. That way a bit of a rest and bathroom break can be had. Arrive at my house with enough gas in the bike to do 107 mi. (I’ll have to stop at that point with only a 4 gal. tank.

I have 2 routes in mind, but I have to check out the Goat Trail for suitability as far as 2 up riders go. I'm strongly leaning toward ditching that one as it's so steep it's likely not suitable for two up rear biased weighting and I’ve got another route that will be nice.

I want to know for Friday, do you guys want to eat at the Gilded Otter again? :eat1:
A cheap Pizza spot instead (small little place but best Pizza in the area), or do you want another place to eat besides the Otter, a tad more upscale than Pizza (I have a feeling Bones will be leaving the roasted Pig :pig1: home). :D
BTW Sam took exception to being called a Brain Fart......lol
Let us know what time and place you guys are planning to get together for supper and we will be there.
I also had some concerns about the Goat Trail as well so it is good that you are checking out some other options.

[SteveST1300]

Hey Carl the Otter sounds fine to me! By the way Jimmy's bike is Titanium in colour (as the Brits say). I am already getting pumped up for this! When are you going to try and do some scouting trips?:03biker:

[Carl_T]

Did CamperNH (Brian) end up buying a bike Greg?

Hey Greg man, I have me red Cardinal Jacket and red/white Scorpion Cardinal helmet. Now you gotta show for NESTOC.

As a side bonus and backup to STeves exhaust, the SV also has T-Man suit warmer type ends on the cans, so Todd won't be cold and his suit won't be too tight.

[Carl_T]

Bones is right The Otter is the first place we broke bread together (besides they have a big parking lot), we'll keep to the Otter (the Pizza place was a crappy idea anyway and logistically not well placed).

We'll go to the Otter the round about, out of the way direction a bit, through a few curves and then over Mohonk Mountain to end up at New Paltz, so we'll be warmed up and ready for lunch.

I'll want to briefly stop again at Bear's Field (Bear was a beautiful Akita we had years ago and we exercised him there) to show Todd and Michele that view of Mohonk tower.

Then over Minnewaska Mountain again to the Reservoir via those little back roads we took last time (a quick look at the Reservoir at that tiny stop off we did). After the Reservoir we'll go an entirely new way through the town of Woodstock, over to Cooper's Lake for the view of several of the bigger Catskill Mountains seen across the Lake (bring your camera, I'll be doing a painting of one of the views in that area one of these days). Then we'll parallel the mountains a bit and wind on up towards Hunter from another angle.

From Hunter we'll try a new way over to SR40 dropping down to some curves then past a little Reservoir to hook up with SR30.

It should be a nice ride but not particulalry short.

[Carl_T]

Chris & Sam... :old1: no, no, just kidding :scared2: Actually I have so many of those BFs :nuts1: that just about everything and everyone I try and remember is associated with brain farts of some type. They could soon be, a trademark with me. Sam's right though, I deserve to be punished, maybe she can suggest to Dawn that I deserve to have Dawn tie me up and.... :eek: gee, maybe we won't go there either.

I'm on safer ground if I just leave it at, It really was my evil twin who posted that, no that's not right either. Truly, "I'm sorry for the mental blank Sam, and yes you are far, far, far, too pretty to be associated with any type of _ _ _ _ well you know what." My bad.

As to evening dinner, they had some dinners that Best Western supplied to the riders and pillions last year. You signed up for them ahead of time with your credit card. We all just grabbed a table together at them. It's probably the easiest to do since you can clean up after the ride and walk over to eat. Without leaving the building. Then you can walk to the bar if your so inclined later in the evening and talk together as well right in the hotel, no riding or driving needed.

Unless everyone has some objection to it, that's likely the easiest way to do Fri. and Sat. dinners.

[Carl_T]

STeve, I tried to check out a portion of the Friday route last year up that way about the second week in March, and go caught in a very nasty snow squall with winds high enough to slide the tires sideways. It was not a fun ride home that day.

I'm going to keep an eye on the weather and I think perhaps later March early April will be possible and if we are lucky, warm enough to be fun. There will be snow on Hunter ski slope in through May I bet, though the weather will be nice by that time.

At any rate I'll give you some warning ahead of time, and I want to go as soon as it is practical. The mountain weather has to be respected early March though. If the Mountains are still nasty late March, maybe the southern section will be nice enough to check out. I'll keep you posted.

Did you see we want to get together with no tight plan, to ride the Adirondaks a weekend in May? Thread is in Northeast section.

[eddiemack]

IF we're eating at the Otter, can I park with you guys this time? Also, Bones must have some silly 'can't eat lunch until we've riden 500 miles' thing. Just make sure we get the mileage in so he can eat with us.

[Bones]

Bones is right.
Carl, I love it when you say that.

IF we're eating at the Otter, can I park with you guys this time? Also, Bones must have some silly 'can't eat lunch until we've riden 500 miles' thing. Just make sure we get the mileage in so he can eat with us.
To ensure roommate tranquility, I'll let the 500 mile rule slide and save a parking slot in the huddle for Eddie.

[GRN]

Did CamperNH (Brian) end up buying a bike Greg?

Hey Greg man, I have me red Cardinal Jacket and red/white Scorpion Cardinal helmet. Now you gotta show for NESTOC.

As a side bonus and backup to STeves exhaust, the SV also has T-Man suit warmer type ends on the cans, so Todd won't be cold and his suit won't be too tight.

Don't know man, Brian's been off the radar a bit. Paul wants :06biker: and had been talking to Brian about buying :03biker: from him, so we'll have to see. Hope so, seems like a really nice guy, look forward to meeting him.

I want THE ROBE, or I'm not coming damit ;)
Truth is I was recently granted permission, bummer is Judi has events she has to attend for work on the may and june weekends... so right now she's only a sure thing for Sept at the moment.

[Carl_T]

Greg check out the Adirondack thread, I'm going over to post something about the dates.

The Robe indeed! Now that WOULD be a sight to seer the eyeballs out of anyone's head for sure (especially if I wear the flip flops and shorts). I'd certainly be shot up in the mountains, a rider on an all black bike with billowing bright red robes flying in the wind obscuring details of the rider.... “Cardinal” would probably not be the first thing to come to the wee minds of shotgun toting locals. An upchuck from the bowls of Hell might be more like what they'd read into it, :rocket1: and I'd be picking buckshot out of my ***... I think I'll pass on that one.

[Carl_T]

Eddie,
Yah Man! Park with us this time, but no more getting there early and saving parking space by no steenkin' dumpster. Don't I remember a photo of Bones waking up and coming out of that thing to meet us at CONSTOC? Sorry Bones, I didn't mean to bring up flashback PTSD memories. :rolleyes:

Greg, Hey another black bike, cool, sounds like a good deal for both of them.

Greg, do the granted pardons (I mean permissions) mean I can put you in on the NESTOC list for sure???

[GRN]

.... “Cardinal” would probably not be the first thing to come to the wee minds of shotgun toting locals. An upchuck from the bowls of Hell might be more like what they'd read into it, :rocket1: and I'd be picking buckshot out of my ***... I think I'll pass on that one.

Hey, Dude... carefull, I'm one of those shotgun toting locals... besides, with all the small colleges up there, there isn't much they haven't seen, trust me. I used to make a hobby of trying :eek:

[Northeast Rider]

As the event approaches closer I'll repost our group riding guidelines as a reminder, so we can operate safely and smoothly together.



Carl,
when you get a chance, can you post the group riding guidelines for us new-bees :biker:

[Carl_T]

OK Brian Next week sometime I'll get them up. Maybe I’ll put them in the first post and attach a virus checked word .doc of them also.

Greg, I bet you did :p:

I'm on of those wee brianers also (well at least I was for some time) so I get to tease a bit, just not upstate that far. When I was a kid there were one or two farmers with rock salt reputations in my area. One chased a friend and I through his cow fields one day. We were seeing how close we could sneak to the barns before he started firing, even though we didn’t really KNOW someone who had actually been shot at. Thankfully he didn't change the color of my hiney with rock salt, but I was damn scared he was gonna. He had the shotgun with him too. We ran our little asses off that day, faster than the ST can fly. I also remember the days of sucking molasses out of the big barrel kept for the cows at the neighbor’s farm... yummm. Nice memories.

[GRN]

Oh man... rock salt sucks dude! I got tagged by the guy on the caboose on my regular after school jump to see a girl in the next town. Either I was late or the train was short that day, holey crap does that $#it hurt.

[Carl_T]

OUCH Greg! :o4:

I've got my hotel room booked and will book the meals during the week. I think the weather report is claiming 65 degrees next weekend. I'm going down the garage to get booking on finishing up the SV so I can go riding next weekend. YIPEE! Roads will totally suck, be wet sandy gravely, frost heaved and full of crap, but it's been too long. I hope the old in like a Lion, out like a Lamb hold true, ' cause that will mean it's nearly "ridin' time" round here!

[Carl_T]

We're up to a dozen bikes listed for Saturday, and we'll be likely to pick up a few more as the time nears.

SteveST1300 is going to pre-ride the route with John and I, he has a GPS, and he has lead his Polar Bear Ride Club before. I think the group size is getting too large for the spread out twisty riding we do on these roads, so I asked STeve to lead a second group. STeve is riding two up so I figured the rest of the couples and a few other guys can ride with him leading. I'll take off with a group 5 or 10 minutes ahead, and see how that works out. We'll all hook up to eat lunch and for ice cream in Andes NY as one group still. We'll all take the same route, just in two small groups instead of one huge lump.

We'd be spread out a long ways otherwise and the rubber banding could get annoying. Two smaller groups can deal with that effect and with traffic much better. It should be safer over all.

[newbornst1300]

I think the group size is getting too large for the spread out twisty riding we do on these roads, so I asked STeve to lead a second group. STeve is riding two up so I figured the rest of the couples and a few other guys can ride with him leading.

I agree Carl... two smaller groups is better.

[SteveST1300]

I booked my meals today. We are all set. :03biker:

[Bones]

I agree Carl... two smaller groups is better.

I'm all confused, Carl. Does two groups mean U-turns cancel each other out?

[Carl_T]

Yes Bones, that means I can do dozens of them, and you guys will never even know it since it will be like I've never done a single one.

[Carl_T]

The weatherman predicted in the 60’s F. for my area today (it can’t last but man that’s an awesome March temp.). So of course, me in my brilliance decides to take the first real ride of 2006 on the SV up in the Mountains where there is ice on the water and snow still in places. It weren’t no 60s, but it gave me the opportunity to check out the middle section of the Cobleskill ride for a lunch spot and look at the roads there in the mid portion I’ve never seen. Man how I Stoically endure less than primo conditions for you guys. You all should give me a pig roast :pig1: for this. :D

I’m glad I did go so early, I can see the need for some route changing strategy. The area doesn’t have a lot of money and the secondary roads reflect it, so you have to pick a bit differently than some other places. The photos explain.

In truth, it was great to be on the bike and in that beautiful mountain environment.

The possible for lunch looks nicer inside than out. The food looked good (I didn’t hit it at eating time and made do with Pizza, OHHH the sacrifice). :rolleyes: The place has Ribs, so if we eat there I don’t wanna hear no mo’ about no stinkin’ pig roast, consider it delivered… Dutch Treat. :p:

I had a ball riding these roads. You can’t see it from the photos but some of the hills were awesome. It’s too bad we won’t be using some of this stuff, but there are better roads to be found (though not as twisty as what I had figured on, I thought we had few straight lines in the whole thing).

I’m going to drop back and punt on the mid section back to Cobleskill out of Andes. STeve, John and I will be checking out the upper and lower areas in April. :03biker: :03biker: :06biker:

Enjoy the pictures, I didn’t photograph the worst of it on some of the secondaries, because I didn’t want to scare you guys. Just do a rain dance for one week in April and the **** will get washed off the roads. They will be nice by the time we get going on them.

The first picture is of Cooper Lake, We will stop there briefly on the Friday ride up from my house. It's an awesome view and the photo is just a teaser of what you can see in the distance at the lake.

Uhhh... forgive the typos, I was in a sloppy rush when I did the pics.

All in all I had a 225 mile blast today.

[Carl_T]

Here are the rest of the pictures from today. STeve and John, weather depending, we should be going up soon. :)
Finding these run down roads is really my own fault, I was being greedy and looking for the stuff that wiggled like a worm on a skillet.

I'm not even going to show you new guys any pictures of the Papacten area, as that is so good it needs to be a total surprise.

[newbornst1300]

Nice pics Carl
It look like you had a great ride through some fantastic areas although a dual sport bike might be more suitable for some of those secondary roads.

[Northeast Rider]

[QUOTE=Northeast Rider]As the event approaches closer I'll repost our group riding guidelines as a reminder, so we can operate safely and smoothly together.



Carl,

I found these, is this correct

This Group Ride Guide.

Remember to give your group leader your full cooperation. All rides need to be kept alcohol free. Save the drinks for relaxing together after the ride is done.

Group ride guidelines:

First and foremost comes the obligatory, almost cliché, yet the very most important concept of the whole group ride.

#1. The big UNO… Ride your own ride. Use turn speeds you are already used to. No one will be left behind on this ride so use what your experience dictates and your best judgment calls for, not what someone else is doing.

#2. The leader will mention the expected maximum speed range for the group.

#3. On secondary and twisty roads where cornering fun can be had open up and follow 4 seconds or more behind the rider in front of you. On these types of roads more distance is better, no one will be allowed to get lost.

On faster State roads with long straights, more traffic, and sweepers that don’t require much of any lean, close to more normal following distances. Whenever heavier traffic is involved, you should close up closer to a 2 or 3 second following distance, but never closer than 2 seconds behind a bike directly ahead of you, on any type of road, even where we are riding very slowly due to traffic.

#4. Avoid side-by-side riding except when stopping, such as red lights, or large enough intersections to accommodate side-by-side stops. When starting up again keep your original line order.

#5. On four lane roads (2 lanes or more going in the same direction) use a staggered formation in the same lane following at least 2 seconds from the bike in front on your side of the lane, and 1 second from the bike in front on the opposite side of the lane. That makes a good formation to handle 4-lane traffic. If a lane change is needed on a 4-lane road, the leader signals it and the tail gunner (sweep) secures the new lane for the group. The group makes the lane change after the sweep man has secured the lane.

All roads with one lane going in each direction (two lane roads) are handled single file with each rider having the whole lane to himself, not needing to adhere to stagger formation, and following at appropriate distance for the type of road as outlined above.

All fun roads, including fun twisties, sweepers, and places where traffic is not interacting with us or holding us up, are run using 4 seconds or better following distances.

#6. You are responsible for your Buddy behind you.
Mark all intersections and turnoffs for him, even if you have to pull over in a safe but visible spot and wait for him. When you know he sees you, go ahead and pull away, but don’t take off at full chat until you actually see he has made the turn.

This way no one need fear getting lost and so there is zero reason to ride faster than personal comfort dictates to keep up.

Also check that you can still see the rider behind in your mirror on very long straights, if not, slow up. If they still don’t show up. stop and wait in a safe spot until you can see them coming.

This insures the group stays together as a group when riding without traffic obstacles, on the better MC roads. The “long straight mirror check” insures that the group automatically self regulates speed to the needs of the slower riders, while allowing the quicker ones to play some. And, again no one need fear getting completely separated, which helps to keep people riding in their personal comfort zone.

#7. If the rider ahead is faster than you in turns, let him go. He’s supposed to know through mirror check, when you fall too far back and slow up in the straights anyway.

#8. If the rider ahead is slower than you in the turns, drop back more in the straights so you can enjoy the turns at your speed, and so you don’t catch him at your 4 second following space until the turn is done. This works best when traffic is light and you can drop back a good deal more than 4 seconds. On all rides some of the fun gets to be traffic dependant.

#9. Faster riders ride closer to the leader, more laid back riders take up near the back, no novices for sweep position.

#10. Keep your place in line, don’t pass each other (good group extra safety issue). If you need to be ahead of the guy your following because they ride slower, negotiate the change at the next rest stop (leader include adequate rest stops).

#11. Keep attention up to notice road and surface conditions, ride sight lines, keep a bit of reserve in blind turns, and be prepared for blind turn surprises. With obstacles ahead, avoid target fixation, look for the clear gaps, think, act.

#12. Keep it fun and safe."
__________________
Carl ST1300

[Carl_T]

I found these, is this correct
There will be a few refinments and additions, but most of the basics are there. I'll be getting them together pretty soon and post them.

[SteveST1300]

Carl when are we going to try and do the scouting trip?:03biker:

[Carl_T]

Guidelines for our group at NESTOC.

This is a gathering of friends (or friends to be) who want to ride motorcycles together. A group leader is chosen to help navigate the route. These guidelines are agreements the group uses in an effort to enhance group safety and facilitate group effectiveness.
We are not a formal club. Our rides are informal social gatherings for the mutual purpose of sharing a route and time together, riding our motorcycles as friends do.

Individual Rider’s responsibilities:
By the act of showing up and riding with us you are making the statement that you agree to ride completely at your own risk. By the act of showing up with you, a passenger is making the statement that they also agree to ride along completely at their own risk.

In addition by riding with us you are responsible for the following.
You are 100% completely responsible for your own safety and the safety of any passenger you bring along with you.
You are responsible to show up in a physical condition where you are able to safely operate your motorcycle, with adequate riding gear, a safe bike, and a full tank of gas.
You are responsible for ALL your riding and machine control decisions regardless of any signals or communications from any other motorcycle riders (only act on what you yourself have determined to be safe to act on).
Any speeding you engage in is completely at your own risk.
You are responsible for the safe condition of your equipment and riding gear.
You are responsible to ride (operate your motorcycle) within your machines limits, and your personal riding skill limits, and at speeds you are familiar controlling your motorcycle at, given whatever the current conditions are (ride your own ride).
You are responsible to avoid drinking any alcohol on the same day we ride either prior to, or during the group ride. Ride your motorcycle in a completely sober state. After we are through operating our motorcycles some of us do drink in the evening. However we do not want to be accompanied by hung over half alert riders the next morning. Use common sense so you show up fully able to ride safely next day.


Racing amongst ourselves is to be avoided. We are riding together as a group instead, doing what we can each do to contribute to a good and safe group experience.

Group ride guidelines:

If the group gets large we may split into subgroups. Each sub group will have a leader that knows the route, alternatively has the route in their GPS, or has a copy of the route with them in some form.

First and foremost comes the obligatory, almost cliché, yet the very most important concept of the whole group ride.

#1. The big UNO… Ride your own ride and avoid the bike in front of you. Use turn speeds you are already used to. No one will be left behind on this ride so use what your experience dictates and your best judgment calls for, not what someone else is doing. Worrying that "by riding in your own comfort zone" you will hold up the group, is a worry to be avoided, dropped, and not considered while you ride. Ride in your own known comfort zone.

#2. If you decide to leave the group for any reason, BE CERTAIN to tell at least one other rider in the group (preferably the ride leader, or the sweep rider, but at least one other rider). If someone tells you they are leaving the group, you are responsible to pass it on to the ride leader at the first opportunity to do so. We do NOT want to be all doubling back and searching for a disabled rider who has simply decided to split off from the group.

#3. On secondary and twisty roads open up and follow 3-4 seconds or more behind the rider in front of you. This is and important guideline to remember and use whenever possible. The distance should be such you are able to ride in an unencumbered manner like you do when riding alone. On these types of roads more distance is better and safer for all (there is also less likelihood of getting sucked into a corner too fast by a rider ahead of you, as well as less likelihood of bike to bike contact in emergency maneuvers), no one will be allowed to get lost.

On faster State roads with longish straights, more traffic, and sweepers that don’t require much of any lean, close up to more normal following distances. Whenever heavier traffic is involved, you should close up more to a 2 or 3 second following distance, but never closer than 2 seconds behind a bike directly ahead of you on any type of road, even where we are riding very slowly due to traffic.

#4. Ride staggered formation ( still 2 seconds from the rider in the same side of the lane as you, 1 second from the rider on the other side of the lane, these are minimums) in Cities and Villages, also on multi lane (same direction) highways.

#5. On four lane roads (2 lanes or more going in the same direction) use a staggered formation in the same lane following at least 2 seconds from the bike in front on your side of the lane, and 1 second from the bike in front on the opposite side of the lane. If a lane change is needed on a 4-lane road, the leader signals it and the tail gunner (sweep) secures the new lane for the group. The group makes the lane change after the sweep man has secured the lane (back to front lane shift is best if practical given conditions).

All rural roads which have one lane going in each direction (two lane roads) are handled single file with each rider having the whole lane to himself, not needing to adhere to stagger formation, and following at appropriate distance for the type of road as outlined above.

#6. You are responsible for your Buddy behind you being able to follow the route.
Mark all intersections and turnoffs for him/her. Do that by him/her seeing you at the turn off, and you seeing him complete the turnoff, even if you have to pull over in a safe but visible spot and wait for him. When you know he sees you, go ahead and pull away, but don’t take off at full chat until you actually see he has made the turn off.

This way no one need fear getting lost and so there is zero reason to ride faster than personal comfort dictates to keep up.

Also check that you can still see the rider behind in your mirror on very long straights, if not, slow up. If they still don’t show up. stop and wait in a safe spot until you can see them coming.

This insures the group stays together as a group when riding on the better MC roads, without traffic obstacles. The “long straight mirror check” insures that the group automatically self regulates speed to the needs of the slower riders, while allowing the quicker ones to safely play some. And, again no one need fear getting completely separated, which helps to keep people riding in their personal comfort zone.

#7. If the rider ahead is faster than you in turns, let him go. He’s supposed to know through mirror check, when you fall too far back and slow up in the straights anyway.

#8. If the rider ahead is slower than you in the turns, drop back more in the straights so you can enjoy the turns at your speed, and so you don’t catch him closer than a 2 second following space when the turn is done (then drop back to the 3-4 seconds or more in the straight). This works best when traffic is light and you can drop back a good deal more than 4 seconds.

#9. Faster riders ride closer to the leader, more laid back riders take up near the back, no novices for sweep position.

#10. Keep your place in line, don’t pass each other (good group extra safety issue). If you need to be ahead of the guy your following because they ride slower, negotiate the change at the next rest stop (leader include adequate rest stops).

#11. Keep attention up to notice road and surface conditions, ride within sight lines, keep a bit of reserve in blind turns, and be prepared for blind turn surprises. With obstacles (or other riders) ahead, avoid target fixation, look for the clear gaps, think, act.

#12. Pass ONLY when you personally determine YOU can SAFELY do so! Avoid following signals from other riders to pass until you yourself are certain you can safely do so through your own senses and very best judgment. Passing is always dangerous, do it well, and safely while observing and thinking for yourself when it comes to passing. You do not have to follow the rider ahead of you past a vehicle unless you are CERTAIN you can manage it safely.

When passing realize there may be a rider behind you who needs room to get back in the right lane also! Make room behind you after passing, for the rider following, if they are there. If space unexpectedly becomes tight, tuck back into the right side of the right lane, so the rider behind has room to safely pull in closer to you in staggered formation.

#13. Visually pull a safety check on your bike and your neighbors when we stop.

#14 Wear good gear, at minimum a DOT helmet with eye protection adequate protective jacket, gloves, and boots. Protective pants are also preferred. It’s likely a good idea to bring sun glasses or something to cut glare mid day and clear lenses for evening if we get stuck out in the dark.

#15 Hand Signals minmum: Need gas point at the tank. Need to stop riding right now (for whatever reason) put a fist straight up high in the air and hold it there, it’s easier than some things to see at a distance. Gotta Pee! Put arm horizontal, make fist palm down, stick out thumb and pinky and rotate hand right/left rapidly (thank you Harley Rider from NH, wherever you are)!

#16 Your lane is your limit, over the centerline is equivalent to going “off the road”.


#17 Keep it fun and safe.

[Carl_T]

Further thoughts to go with Guidelines.

We ride roads that are often new to us, so the following is just a helpful memory jogging reminder of good riding basics for the individual:


Again, ride your own ride and leave plenty of space between you and the rider ahead (if you allow your front wheel to touch the bike ahead, you go down on the spot, avoid that).

The rides normally focus on smooth quality machine control and de-emphasize speed in the straights. However your group leader may set individual guidelines for the ride.

Set speed to sight line (speed set to where you can stop within what you can see).

After passing in general (when safe to do so), pull to the right side of the lane for a bit upon pass completion (when you are normal distance behind the rider ahead of you). This habit allows a rider behind you (if you've missed seeing them in your mirrors), to get back into the lane more quickly, yet more safely as per following distance (if space becomes tight with oncoming vehicles).

Keep 3 or 4 feet away from the centerline on left and right turns. Do this going in, apexing, and coming out, unless you have a “for sure” perfect view far enough through the corner to ride closer than that to the center line. Always be prepared for an oncoming car to suddenly appear having two wheels in your lane.

Use outside in, late apex lines through turns.

In general aim to set your corner speed early and accurately. Avoid coming into turns too hot, or going so fast you need to slow through the middle of the turn (decreasing radius turns are exceptions). Use “Slow in, Fast out”

Set your lean on “turn in” with smooth, brisk, accurate precision.

The next step after the MSF mantra of Look, Lean and Roll is;
Look, Lean, Maintenance throttle, Roll, when it comes to large radius turns.

Especially on a new road, keep your eyes looking far enough ahead to look to and read vanishing points in blind turns (if the vanishing point appears to be coming closer the corner is tightening and the turn is decreasing radius, reduce speed with smooth gentle throttle roll off if needed before you get to the tightening part). You should already have a bit of lean angle in reserve anyway since the turn was blind, and that makes a speed-reducing roll off possible.

Avoid target fixation. When confronted by sudden situations containing objects (cars, bikes, rocks, gravel, animals etc.) that need avoiding, look to the gaps where you can fit your bike, look to the paths through. Find and look where you want to go rather than at the object. After locking eyes on your chosen path, decide which is needed, braking, accelerating, turning, or some combination of these. Remember in good traction you still cannot brake at maximum power while leaned over. You can brake strongly with the bike upright. When surprises happen become AWARE, DECIDE, and appropriately TAKE ACTION immediately.

Be aware of the safety margins you have available at any moment in time, and how they shrink and expand. When they expand rest and enjoy a bit more, when they shrink bring all of you to the task at hand.

Enjoy the quality of your riding, but also enjoy the ride itself. Riding a motorcycle is complex, but the main idea is that it is also enjoyable. Do your part, keep all of us and the day made up of safe fun.

[GRN]

Gotta Pee! Put arm horizontal, make fist palm down, stick out thumb and pinky and rotate hand right/left rapidly (thank you Harley Rider from CT, wherever you are)!

:crackup ....:crackup ....:crackup That's great man! :crackup ....:crackup ....:crackup

That was actually up here on the way in to NHfcSTOC on that run 6 of us to up the Kanc... it either meant "I need to pee", or "I'm about to piss myself" in anticipation of quick roasting they got served :crackup ....:crackup ....:crackup I'M GONNA PEE!!! :crackup ....:crackup ....:crackup

[Carl_T]

Oops :crackup :crackup :crackup there goes that Alzheimer’s again, I made the correction Greg. I’m so intuitively sure the signal was they were going to wet themselves, that it was worthy of becoming a standard “I gotta pee” signal. :crackup


I corrected some omissions and typos, also added something on passing in the guidelines and the follow up that is important to remember (the guy following you past).

[Carl_T]

STeve, It's supposed to snow again this coming weekend so it's certain to do so in the mountains if percipitation comes through (and they will sand even more). It rained like an SOB her last night which should have helped clear the roads a good deal. Some more of that heavy rain stuff, and they will be starting to get nice.

Maybe we should check out the lower (southern) section the weekend after? Dawn's Birthday is the weekend of the 31st, so that ones out.

[eddiemack]

Carl,.. from the looks of your pre-ride I should be bringing my KDX220 instead of the ST! Also,... do you write software agreement statements for Norton Utilites or something? You forgot to include a: 'I accept' radio button at the end of the guidelines.....

[Carl_T]

MY EYES!!!! Oh God help me Eddie... that photo you attached is just wrong!

Yeah man, that's my submission piece to Norton. I'm practicing using a lot of words to say a little bit, in order to avoid assumption and confusion (as well as test new participants for the endurance factor, if they can read all that they can last 270 mi. of rural roads on a ride) :crackup

I did want to let new and potential Buds know that we are individual friends getting together to share the road, the route, and BS when we are done, and not an organized event group (as well as clue them in to our riding style).

Yeah I'm thinking a DR 200 or 400 would have been a more suited choice to March mountain riding. I could have done some cool power sliding through the mud in a bunch of places rather than try and stay out of the worst of the crap.

I can't afford to do it right now, but it intrigues me to consider picking up a dual sport and explore all those wiggly mountain dirt roads there seems to be in the Catskills and Adirondacks.

[Bones]

Eddie... that photo you attached is just wrong!


Actually, Eddie is just wrong on multiple levels. And that's why we love him so.

[Carl_T]

Eddie can come up with some "right" photos too.

STeve, What do you think of checking the lower and mid portions of the route Saturday March 25 if the weather treats us OK between now and then? That would be a 225 mile loop from my place though, without much hope of shortening it a great deal.

[SteveST1300]

I think its doable. Will John be coming with us? I will have to figure out the logistics of this. I will either have to leave from work Friday night or start out very early on Saturday. I don't mind either option though. :03biker:

[Carl_T]

You can ride up Friday and sleep on the couch if you want. John told me he had to go away on a trip for a bit to take care of some stuff. My air memory didn't hold onto just when he was going to do that. Since he didn't answer my email to him today, I'm assuming he's away now. If so he may well be back by the time we go. I'll keep you posted when I do hear from him.

[SteveST1300]

Sounds good I will let you know as we get closer Friday night sounds like the best option.


:03biker:

[newbornst1300]

Hope you guys faired better than we did up here.
Woke up this morning to more snow and there is now more salt and crap on the roads to make for a nice drive to work this morning.:rolleyes:

[GRN]

upper CT River valley in NH and VT are a skating rink...

[Carl_T]

Thankfully only a couple of flakes this morning that didn't stick, and now plenty of SUN! There may have been some snow in the mountains (I'm hoping not, but then again Denial is a River in Egypt).

STeve, I heard from John and he is in for Sat. the 25th (weather depending), so it looks like a go for the lower-mid checkout run! If Ma Nature cooperates just a little bit, it will be a lot of fun, some of the best parts (I hope) are in that section. I also want your feedback on whether to include or change a couple of sections.

[SteveST1300]

Sounds good I hope the weather cooperates. I will be there !:03biker:

[Carl_T]

Well it's getting closer to the checkout ride Saturday and the weather looks like it will just co-operate enough to be a go, so I'll be seeing STeve and John Friday night unless things change drastically here weather wise.

We have what should be a really good route planned out, and I have some alternatives if we find any problems along the way, so things are moving along well as far as routing goes.

John and STeve will likely help me check out the northern section in April also (we're checking from mid to south Saturday). In April the weather is safer in the mountains to the north, and after that pre-ride we should have the route set enough to distribute. I can send Mapsource to those with Garmin GPS and post a .html route sheet for the rest.

The sun is brightening up here and I'm getting Antsy to be out on the bike. Hopefully the temps will get back to more normal soon. Spring is "sprunging," or trying to.

STeve, John, and I, will hopefully get you guys a few pictures Saturday, there is some gorgeous country the route goes through and one part of the route has always been motorcycle heaven in the past so I'm looking forward to engaging it again.

The temps are usually nice and warm here in June, and if they are on the cool side they are still in the 70s, so NESTOC should be an outstanding time riding County roads.

[Carl_T]

I can't wait to show Cooper Lake to you guys that are coming up with me Friday. It's a State watershed, but they let you park near the water. Camera will be mandatory.

[Carl_T]

I was talking with STeve and we were saying that having more than one group, would leave some of us missing riding with the riders in the “other” group (as we’ve waited the winter to ride together again). It’s kind of nice to have everyone together at stops and the like.

I’ve been thinking about that and wondered what you guys felt about the following idea (which I’ve not done, so I don’t know how it would work out).

Still have STeve lead the second group, but only start out about 1 or 2 minutes back maximum. The lead group can then easily wait up at rest stops and we can get a few of those umpteen bikes lined up camera shots on this ride as well as BS a bit together etc.

There’ll still be a two group division complete with lead bike with route in GPS, to aid in route navigation and still keep a little bit of division between groups to better deal with traffic.

We can adjust the 1-2 minute time as needed when we see how it works out real world.

What do you say, decent idea, or hair-brained?

[GRN]

works for me... make the front group those who are a bit more aggressive (or Blue - just faster by default), and the second those who would rather relax more (or red - just slower by default). ;)

[Ken]

I'm easy Carl - whatever is the consensus, count me in. As long as we are safe, we're good.

[Bones]

I like that, Carl. Silver is above the "faster" fray, however, because we understand which color arrived first.

[SteveST1300]

I guess that means I will have to slow my SILVER one down so my group can keep up!!!!:06biker: :04biker: :biker: :04biker: :biker: :03biker:

[Carl_T]

Watch out STeve, I see the fastest color, "black (hole)" one sneaking up from behind in your group.

The following is so long I'm going to post it just once here and link to it on our DackSTOC ride.

It's been a long winter layoff, and we're thinking of riding together again. Our group guidelines pretty much say what needs to be said about riding together, but the Article the Pace does give a feel for the spirit of our rides together. It's a solid premise to start with, and so is very much worth a "beginning of the season" read to get our heads in a good place to begin with.

[Carl_T]

This nearly 10 year old article embodies a large degree of the spirit behind the rides we share when I’m leading. I recommend a read (or re-read) even for veteran riders.
We are even more laid back than this article in some respects, since we expect you to RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE at your own familiar pace. You are never obligated to go faster than you deem safe to stay with our group. We do ask if you happen to be one who finds themselves riding considerably slower through the turns than the rider behind you, that you allow that rider to take up position ahead of you in line at the next rest stop.
SUMMARY of THE PACE PRINCIPLES

Set cornering speed early. Blow the entrance and you'll never recover.

Look down the road Maintaining a high visual horizon will reduce perceived speed and help you avoid panic situations.

Steer the bike quickly. There's a reason Wayne Rainey works out - turning a fast-moving motorcycle takes muscle.

Use your brakes smoothly but firmly Get on and then off the brakes smoothly; don't drag 'em.

Get the throttle cracked a bit open, early on in the turn, whenever the turn allows. Starting the drive settles the chassis, especially through a bumpy corner. This is not a technique for downhill decreasing radius turns though, use common sense matched to the situation of the moment.

Never cross the centerline except to pass. Crossing the centerline in a corner is an instant ticket and an admittance that you can't really steer your bike. In racing terms, your lane is your course; staying right of the line adds a significant challenge to most roads and is mandatory for sport riding's future. Stay off the shoulder as well.

Don't crowd the centerline Always expect an oncoming car with two wheels in your lane. Enter and exit blind turns a bit away from the centerline.

When leading, ride for the group Good verbal communication is augmented with hand signals and turn signals; change direction and speed smoothly. Telegraph moves you will make to the others.

When riding as close as 2 seconds away from the rider ahead, look past the rider and (most of the time), keep track of that rider with peripheral vision. This helps you avoid doing a copy cat maneuver that would be wrong for you and your bike, as well as helps you see what’s coming up, and avoid target fixation on the bike ahead.
If you find yourself making small mistakes, that’s a warning. Back your pace off just a bit and go for smoothness.

[Carl_T]

Beyond the following we also like to enjoy some of the beauty of the area we ride in as well. The straights are a good place to kick back enough to do some of that.
THE PACE with a small amount of editing Please take some time and read it for a feel of the spirit behind our ride.
INTRO

Racing involves speed, concentration and commitment; the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled, mistakes and over aggressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of road racers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim. Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten tenths riding. But as many of us know, a swift ride down a favorite road may be the finest way to spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed riding at The Pace.

A year after I joined the Motorcyclist staff in 1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides. Now The Pace is part of my life--and a part of the Sunday-morning riding group I frequent. The Pace is a street technique that not only keeps street riders alive, but thoroughly entertained as well.

THE PACE

The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.

If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly to set entrance speed with minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.

YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT

Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the racetrack. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.

Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time; don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.

More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again.
Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three- or four-foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-hander and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.

A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS

The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line etc. If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straightaway speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. There's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick enough--in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's the proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.

Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straight always---taken at more moderate speeds—a straight becomes the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps between riders. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized and the highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. Rider’s behind will be less likely to get sucked into a turn faster than they are used to.

With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.

There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris on the road. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for the motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, you left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.

[Carl_T]

RELAX AND FLICK IT

I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it is that enjoyable. Counter-steering is the name of the game, a smooth forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires contact patches through a rigid sport-bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what the bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.

But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner.
Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect; realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competitor. You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got something to prove, get on a racetrack.

The racetrack measures your speed with a stopwatch and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.

PACE YOURSELF

The street is not the track - It's a place to Pace

Too many riders of sport bikes become baggage when the throttle gets twisted - the ensuing speed is so overwhelming they are carried along in the rush. The Pace ignores outright speed and can be as much fun on a Ninja 250 as on a ZX-11, emphasizing rider skill over right-wrist bravado. A fool can twist the grip, but a fool has no idea how to stop or turn. Learning to stop will save your life; learning to turn will enrich it. What feels better than banking a motorcycle over into a corner?

The mechanics of turning a motorcycle involve pushing and/or pulling on the handlebars; while this isn't new information for most sport riders, realize that the force at the handlebar affects the motorcycle's rate of turn-in. Shove hard on the bars, and the bike snaps over; gently push the bars, and the bike lazily banks in. Different corners require different techniques, but as you begin to think about lines, late entrances and late apexes, turning your bike at the exact moment and reaching he precise lean angle will require firm, forceful inputs ant the handlebars. If you take less time to turn your motorcycle, you can use that time to brake more effectively or run deeper into the corner, affording yourself more time to judge the corner and a better look at any hidden surprises. It's important to look as far into the corner as possible and remember the adage, "You go where you look."

DON'T RUSH

The number-one survival skill, after mastering emergency braking, is setting your corner-entrance speed early, or as Kenny Roberts says, "Slow in, fast out." Street riders may get away with rushing into 99 out of 100 corners, but that last one will have gravel, mud or a trespassing car. Setting entrance speed early will allow you to adjust your speed and cornering line, giving you every opportunity to handle the surprise.

We've all rushed into a corner too fast and experienced not just the terror, but the lack of control when trying to herd the bike into the bend. If you're fighting the brakes and trying to turn the bike, any surprise will be impossible to deal with. Setting your entrance speed early and looking into the corner allows you to determine what type of corner you're facing. Does the radius decrease? Is the turn off-camber? Is there an embankment that may have contributed some dirt to the corner?

Racers talk constantly about late braking, yet that technique is used only to pass for position during a race, not to turn a quicker lap time. Hard braking blurs the ability to judge cornering speed accurately, and most racers who rely too heavily on the brakes find themselves passed at the corner exits because they scrubbed off too much cornering speed. Additionally, braking late often forces you to trail the brakes or turn the motorcycle while still braking. While light trail braking is an excellent and useful technique to master, understand that your front tire has only a certain amount of traction to give.

If you use a majority of the front tire's traction for braking and then ask it to provide maximum cornering traction as well, a typical low-side crash will result. Also consider that your motorcycle won't steer as well with the fork fully compressed under braking. If you're constantly fighting the motorcycle while turning, it may be because you're braking too far into the corner. All these problems can be eliminated by setting your entrance speed early, an important component of running the Pace.

Since you aren't hammering the brakes at every corner entrance, your enjoyment of pure cornering will increase tremendously. You'll relish the feeling of snapping your bike into the corner and opening the throttle as early as possible for that particular turn. Racers talk about getting the drive started, and that's just as important on the street. Notice how the motorcycle settles down and simply works better when the throttle is slightly open? Use a smooth, light touch on the throttle and try to get the bike driving as soon as possible in the corner, even before the apex, the tightest point of the corner. If you find yourself on the throttle ridiculously early, it's an indication you can increase your entrance speed slightly be releasing the brakes earlier.

As you sweep past the apex, you can begin to stand the bike up out of the corner. This is best done by smoothly accelerating, which will help stand the bike up. As the rear tire comes off full lean, it puts more rubber on the road, and the forces previously used for cornering traction can be converted to acceleration traction. The throttle can be rolled open as the bike stands up.

This magazine won't tell you how fast is safe; we will tell you how to go fast safely. How fast you go is your decision, but it's one that requires reflection and commitment. High speed on an empty four-lane freeway is against the law, but it's fairly safe. Fifty-five miles per hour in a canyon may be legal, but it may also be dangerous. Get together with your friends and talk about speed. Set a reasonable maximum and stick to it. Done right, the Pace is addicting without high straightaway speeds.

The group I ride with couldn't care less about outright speed between corners; any gomer can twist a throttle. If you routinely go 100 mph, we hope you routinely practice emergency stops from that speed. Keep in mind outright speed will earn a ticket that is tough to fight and painful to pay; cruising the easy straight stuff doesn't attract as much attention from the authorities and sets your speed perfectly for the next sweeper.

[Carl_T]

GROUP MENTALITY

Straights are the time to reset the ranks. The leader needs to set a pace that won't bunch up the followers, especially while leaving a stop sign or passing a car on a two-lane road. The leader must use the throttle hard to get around the car and give the rest of the group room to make the pass, yet he or she can't speed blindly along and earn a ticket for the whole group. With sane speeds on the straights, the gaps can be adjusted easily.

It's the group aspect of the Pace I enjoy most, watching the bikes in front of me click into a corner like a row of dominoes, or looking in my mirror as my friends slip through the same set of corners I just emerged from.

Because there's a leader and a set of rules to follow, the competitive aspect of sport riding is eliminated and that removes a tremendous amount of pressure from a young rider's ego - or even an old rider's ego. We've all felt the tug of racing while riding with friends or strangers, but the Pace takes that away and saves it for where it belongs: the racetrack. The racetrack is where you prove your speed and take chances to best your friends and rivals.

I've spend a considerable amount of time writing about the Pace (see Motorcyclist, Nov. '91) for several reasons, not the least of which being the fun I've had researching it (continuous and ongoing). But I have motivations that aren't so fun. I got scared a few years ago when Senator Danforth decided to save us from ourselves by trying to ban superbikes, soon followed by insurance companies blacklisting a variety of sport bikes. I've seen Mulholland Highway shut down because riders insisted on racing (and crashing) over a short section of it. I've seen heavy police patrols on roads that riders insist on throwing themselves off of. I've heard the term "murder-cycles" a dozen times too many. When we consider the abilities of a modern sport bike, it becomes clear that rider techniques is sorely lacking.

The Pace emphasizes intelligent, rational riding techniques that ignore racetrack heroics without sacrificing fun. The skills needed to excel on the racetrack make up the basic precepts of the Pace, excluding the mind-numbing speeds and leaving the substantially larger margin for error needed to allow for unknowns and immovable objects. Our sport faces unwanted legislation from outsiders, but a bit of throttle management from within will guarantee our future.

Nick Ienatsch Sport Rider Magazine June 1993

[SteveST1300]

Carl check out an ATV dealership and look at the Handle Bar Mittens you can even get them with pockets to put chemical warming packs into. Might be just the ticket for your hands!:03biker: :03biker:I saw the listed for 11- 30 dollars

[Carl_T]

Mr. Ienatsch captured and delineated in his article the spirit and feel of a type of ride that many veteran riders have come to and settled on in the past, as well as the present. The goal is to enjoy high quality riding in the company of friends, free of negative incidents and laced with as many positive experiences as possible for that ride that day. We look to have fun keeping the rubber side down and the shiny parts up without making a particular point of smoking your buddy in your dust during the process.

As for me, I have a need to keep tickets off of my license, so I'll be keeping things mostly speed limit to 5 or 10 above, especially on straights depending upon conditions, while enjoying the turns we find along the way within my capacity to do so.

I'll be looking for roads that are enjoyable to ride given the above speed criteria on the NESTOC ride.

If any of you feel the urgent need to go faster than that in the straights, I'll happily provide a route, and you'd certainly be truly welcome to ride up ahead of me with any other like-minded Buds (no harm no foul). Last year everyone appeared to enjoy the pace provided and the straight speeds were similar though so I think enough riding pleasure will be provided behind me given nice weather.

[Carl_T]

I'll call around locally STeve, thanks. The hands are the only thing I worried about for Saturday's colder section past the ski slope. I've got plenty of layers for the rest of me.

[Ken]

He goes into even greater detail on The Pace in his Sport Riding Techniques (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1893618072/104-9135630-0003165?v=glance&n=283155) book. Fantastic book - fun read. He and David Hough are terrific riding technique writers. Looking forward to being a part of The Pace myself!

[Carl_T]

Heh heh Rob, :D That one was Nick's. I kind of agree with you, but I bet I could have one hell of a lot of fun on a little Ninja given that I could choose the road type. If my son decides to get into riding I may get the opportunity to find out. Well, either the 250 or 500cc, remains to be seen though. He's too immersed in College, to study bike riding right now.

I agree Ken. Nick is the only guy that even mentions the concept of maintenance throttle in the various riding books. That’s an important technique to know about when the speed and corner configuration calls for knowing it. He is one person definitely worth reading and putting in context with information from the other books available.

[GRN]

I learned some of the same ideas from a little different perspective as a kid when I first got my DL. An old friend of my Dad's who lived in VT raced for Porche, and did private driving clinics for sport car enthusiasts, focused on helping them find ways to enjoy public roads safely, and without needing to commit felonies :o: . He taught me most of the automobile technique I know today (for rear drive anyway), and the main principals he repeated more than any had to do with pace. "The mark of a really good driver is his lack of need for using his brakes". Interesting reads guys, thanx.

[Carl_T]

I let my rant go and backspaced it all. It was on local revenue generating Governments in my area. I'm old enough to easily notice the degenerative trend, enough said on that.

As to the Saturday checkout ride, we'll have to keep an eye on the weather channel. Right now they are calling for 40s and showers up here. Neither the roads nor the temps are in any condition for riding in the rain. We may need to be a bit flexible on this guys. The weather channel changes until you are two or three days out though.

[GRN]

I'm old enough to easily notice the degenerative trend, enough said on that.



:confused: what in sam hill are you talking about? Maybe you meant "I'm old enough to easily exhibit a degenerative trend"? What about local revenue generating Governments? Did I miss something?

[Carl_T]

Yeah, you missed the long explanation I deleted before posting. If I'd have posted the rant in full it would actually have made sense.

I just had associations with something Eddie and I wrote about to each other via email. That got associated with the "pace" I posted. Eddie was lamenting how 50mph roads are becoming 30mph roads where he is, and how that looms the potential of big tickets in some cases when 50mph is actually still safe to run at. The same artificial lowering for revenue, is happening in various spots in my area as well. Some of it is absolutely, ludicrously blatant.

That also got me to thinking how the Government on various levels tends to use the ploy of either opportunistically using a real danger, or blowing a danger out of proportion, or lying about a danger, and then stepping in and getting people to give up something because, “if you do, then you’ll be safe”.

That’s an amazingly workable ploy being used now days. As you get older just listen with one ear remembering that ploy, and see how every so often it gets pulled out of the closet without full legitimacy. Usually on smaller things, but sometimes it’s used on big ones. I’ve been around long enough to spot the pattern. That's what I was thinking about when I mentioned degenerative trend. How we are sometimes exposed to certain Govt. agencies furthering an agenda through manipulation of peoples fears "we'll keep YOU SAFE Buddy, by the way, we want your right thumb for doing it to boot" (or maybe just your right fingernail... this time). Never mind if you'd rather have the right thumb than be kept safe their style.

I know this short version isn't a whole lot clearer, but posting the full rant is too much like pissing in the wind, even if it would make my thought process clear. Like the wind, it's all sound and fury, signifying nothing. A string of associations better moved on from.

On the other hand, I'm going to return some movies with the bike to try out my new Tourmaster HRX pants now. they are complete with removable rainproof liner, removable quilted liner, and they are airpants to boot when there is no liner in place. There is hard plastic & padded knee pads and reasonably thick hip pads also. They are double stitched and have leather in the knees and on the inside of the thighs.

For all that you have to put up with racer-boy lettering on the side leg that says CORTECH in white. There's also velcro for knee sliders, which are coming in the mail to cover the Velcro. I figure the sliders will be there in the event of a front end slide, I’m sure not going to use them knee down otherwise. It doesn't look generic “Tourer”, though they fit me decently.

They may actually be a decent all around pants for spring, summer, fall if they are durable. They also come with both a full circumference zipper and a “just in the back” zipper complete with the part you sow into your favorite jacket. I’ll put the full circumference into the leather/textile Joe Rocket jacket, and the back only zipper into my first gear air jacket. I should be good to go.

My former First Gear Air Pants had ****ty little almost useless pads and the zipper trashed after the second month. By the time I decided to deal with them I lost the receipt, so I've replaced them with these.

It's cold enough to check the quilt liner out today. I'm off to do so. Catch ya on the flip side.

[Carl_T]

Back from trying out the Tourmaster HRX air pants from Newenough. So, now I am going to rant the former rant with different words.

I ran into yet another example of what is sometimes irking me and causing me to mumble words like “degenerative trends.” I have a road within 10 minutes of the house that I like to ride. It's a ****ty little back road up a small mountain with a kind of rough-ish surface and lots of turns. When I want to play with damping adjustments that's the road I often go to with notebook and screwdriver at hand.

For all of my lifetime, 60 years, it has had a 55 mph speed limit. Anytime I have an hour to jump on the bike and go for a little run during the week, I'll usually include that road in the route. I've never had a close call on it, I've never fallen, nor nearly fallen on it. I generally run between around 35 and 55 mph on it (with an average of taking it easy at 45 or 50mph in the straights depending), and most often do that during mid morning when there is no traffic and I slow for the blind spots as well. This allows me a nice bit of riding fun without speeding and I do like my little road. It is rider friendly without causing angst in the community or engaging in illegal speeds.

There have been no accidents on it reported, the traffic volume is about the same as when I started using it, there is some traffic but not what you would call heavy. Did I say I like including it in my “close to home” short bike runs. The number of houses is close to the same, beyond one new one and a few new houses built on a side road.

Basically the road is as it was for decades except they don’t want to bother repaving it, and patch and tar snake it instead, so yes it’s the same.

What do I find on my afternoon “HRX pants try out run” on my little road today? Well, I find a bunch of shiny NEW signs that were not there last week. The little *******s say 35mph as the new posted speed limit.

In the day and age when family sedans handle BETTER than Jaguars, Porches, and Ferraris of decades gone by, we are suddenly no longer capable of navigating this road at anything higher than 35mph. anywhere on it’s whole length. Well I guess they are keeping us all SAFE you see, saving us from ourselves as it were because they know better than you or I. Meanwhile guess what black and white with shiny little red lights on top I’m likely to find cruising it or hiding in the bushes when the weather warms up a bit. Can you guess? I sure can. You can bet it will now be included in the local patrol.

I’m old enough to remember how well we handled things in the past, and to easily notice the degenerative trend coming to my area called unnecessary over exaggerated speed limits (I am very much for safe, sane, logical needed speed limits). When you want the real reason behind things follow the money. Sadly it’s not just speed limits but little things changing for other than the better dot by dot. One day your children will be telling their own grandchildren that they remember when Dad actually rode a Motorcycle, but that was before the Government “helped people out and kept them safe” from riding those dangerous machines by outlawing them when the people didn’t know any better themselves, enough said on that. Politicians are not always on my "gotta love 'em list." End of irksome mood rant.

[Carl_T]

The HRX pants feel about the same as my leathers on the bike. The quilt doesn’t go quite to the boot so a little portion of my shins got cool air on them blocked only by the rain proof liner. It wasn’t to cold to stand, but my shins weren’t toasty like the rest of my legs. It was 41degrees F out so I’d guess they would be totally comfortable from about 50F on up. If I put a cotton rag in that spot on my shins it would likely be comfortable down into the 30s. We’ll have to wait for NESTOC to see how they do in the heat.

My First Gear over pants on top of jeans is warm even in very cold weather so I was just checking the range these would operate in.

[Carl_T]

STeve and John, they are still calling for possible rain Sat. and crappy rain and snow Sun. I'll keep my eye on it. I couldn't find the bar mittens locally (they said they didn't restock since it is warming up, who knew it was warming up, I couldn't tell by going outside). I'm going in to Dick's Sporting Goods tomorrow and see about battery operated electric hunting gloves just in case the weather lets us go.

[SteveST1300]

Carl any luck with handle bar mitts?

[Carl_T]

Nope all sold out locally. I'm going to look for some battery operated heated hunting gloves tomorrow.

[SteveST1300]

If you like I will look down here, I am sure I can find some.:03biker:

[Carl_T]

Let me call Dicks and see if they have gloves in the morning. If not then I'd say yes best to look down there. Otherwise the gloves will work out OK for me for the few times I'll use them. I'll email you in the morning.

[SteveST1300]

OK:03biker:

[Carl_T]

Looks like the gloves are only about $17 if they're in stock. Not much protection but I can use them for other things and get the bar mittens later for fall riding.

The weather report has it at 41 degrees and cloudy with only a 20% chance of snow on Saturday up in the mountains. Saturday night it ups to 40% up there, but clear down at all our houses Sat night and just above freezing. Sunday they claim 40% chance of rain snow my way and rain down your way. This is already improved from what I heard before.

[Carl_T]

Found the bar mitts so I'm set STeve.

Weather update is back to 30% snow/rain both Sat. and Sun.

[Carl_T]

OK just back from picking them up. They are an initial tight squeeze over the throttle side, but then fit fine. I think these things are going to do the trick blocking enough wind to be comfortable in riding gloves, thanks for telling me about them. The ones I got are short enough so just your hands go in and the opening big enough so getting stuck in there isn’t a worry.

If the weather is still looking like this tomorrow, we may be smarter and better off shifting this to a rain date of, come up Friday night April 7, and head out for the route check Sat. April 8.

[SteveST1300]

You can make the final call as late as Thursday night if you like. Whatever call you make is OK with me>:03biker:

[Carl_T]

'kay STeve, I'll keep an eye on it. The rain date if we have to use it, would give the area roads more of a chance to clear off some anyway.

Meanwhile I'll be trying those mittens out. I just found I'd blown a signal light bulb playing around while trying the mitt fit. It doesn't hurt to include a signal lights in the pre-ride check.

[SteveST1300]

How much did the mitts cost? Rain date should be OK with me. Have you heard from John?:03biker:

[Carl_T]

the mitts were $25 at the local raper, I mean dealer. I hadn't wanted to go there since they trashed my fork caps during a warranty fork seal fix, and never replaced them, as they cost $80 apiece. They are on perpetual back order, I got sick of waiting and bought a couple of used ones on ebay$25 for the set.

I emailed John a few hours ago, but haven't heard back yet. It's looking like it's smartest to postpone, but will check tomorrow to be sure.

[SteveST1300]

OK Cardinal how about a fair weather prayer?:bow1: :bow1: :06biker:

[Carl_T]

Well, I could try one, but I have a feeling the Eskimos already beat me to it with a snow prayer for the weekend.:snow1:

[SteveST1300]

Wel a coupple of week may make all the difference! I will do the Polar bear ride again on Sunday if we cancel.:03biker:

[Carl_T]

I will do the Polar bear ride again on Sunday if we cancel.
Said in faux Austin Power’s voice; “not unless you got a functioning snorkel for yourself Ba-a-a-aby!” :06biker: They claim it's going to rain on you down there.

Now the Wonkers have gone and put up a forecast that says snow on the route for tonight, tomorrow, Fri., Sat., Sun., and Monday. By the time Monday comes they might add Tues. on through the week as well at that rate.

It’ll take a couple of weeks for the sand to be partly swept aside if it actually snows that much in the area. F_ C_ _ _ G March anyway! That warm weekend was such a tease. Well when it stops peeing from the sky I’ll try out the mitts in preparation, but hopefully in a couple of weeks I won’t even need them.

I’ll check again tomorrow.

[SteveST1300]

A little rain won't stop us from riding the Polar Bear Grand Tour. Its a rain or shine event only snow or ice cancel these.:03biker:

[Carl_T]

Yeah, well do you guys chop a hole in the ice and jump in the water bare *** after lunch too? I've seen pictures of those polar bear guys doing that and I think I'm just totally OUT of that ice water S***. :p: My lips turn blue at anything below 78 degree water temps. :o4: :sick1: :eek:

There calling for a lot warmer down your way in the 50's so you'll likely be good to go for the ride. :03biker: :wind1: and snow = :couch1: :06biker: :couch1:

[Bones]

F_ C_ _ _ G March anyway! That warm weekend was such a tease.

A tease perhaps, but good for a couple hundred miles of blissful motoring. The mercury spiked over 40 yesterday, too...a quick run at lunch time does wonders for the soul!

[Carl_T]

Got to agree Bones. I took the bike to return some videos and check for the mitts day before yesterday, it felt good to be on it again after the 200+ that warm weekend.

People aren't used to us being out yet, so keep an extra good eye out.

In the mall parking lot I had a guy whip a turn behind a large box truck (where I couldn't see him do it) gas it and come flying out from behind the truck right in front of me. He saw me coming and stopped the car. Of course he managed to stop crossways right in my path. Luckily I was taking it easy and braked at the first flick of movement and stopped in time (God love the front brake). Still even at 10 feet of separation it was a reminder of all the sharp clawed kitty cats in cars laying in wait to pounce on the mice on bikes with lethal force. “Eyes wide open”

[Carl_T]

STeve and John,

They upped the probability of snow Saturday. Sunday is calling for snow as well. So we need to abort this weekend and go for the rain dates. See you both Friday night April 7 to go out on the route Saturday April 8.

At least it isn't snowing up there today, or tomorrow. Though they say it will snow Monday also. It is supposed to be in the mid 40's and rain Sat & Sun next weekend April 1st there as well. However, that may wash some of the sand off the roads and will be a good thing for us. One rain down here went a long way to clearing a lot of the sand off the roads in my area.

By the time we go it should be in the 50s up there and so we'll have a pleasant "mucho fun" ride.

[SteveST1300]

Ok Carl consider it postponed! See you in a couple of weeks.:03biker:

[Carl_T]

For any of you with Garmin GPS who are riding up to Cobleskill with me Friday,
here is a MapSource file of Friday's ride for you attached to this post.

It's a mix of twisties and laid back straighter roads, I made sure to keep extremely STeep technical hills out of the ride up, for any of you that are coming double up. So, we avoided the Goat Trail and the road up to the Zen Monastery again this year. There will be some hills though (both Friday, and definitely Saturday) so make absolutely certain your Pillion knows to lean forward into you riding up a steep hill, and to lean back a bit going down. Of course you do the same.

Bring a camera for the Mohonk view stop, the Ashokan Reservoir stop, and the Cooper Lake stop. The views there are very much worth remembering. Especially so when you can also get a line of STs complete with friends in the picture of the scenery.

We are going to depart onto the road by 10:30am sharp (come already gassed up). We'll be eating kind of early around 11-ish am at the Gilded Otter in New Paltz, and arrive up at the Best Western around 6pm. That's so long as things go as planned and ST&Trips has done well estimating time, which it normally does.

Dinner is at 7pm, so we'll have to check in and change as soon as we roll in. You can see it will be wise to show up well ahead of the 10:30am leave time so we get off on time, because we want to make dinner. If something happens and you show up at the meet spot after 10:30am finding us gone, go directly to the Otter in New Paltz (via SR32 south, then a right at the light in New Paltz at SR299, then right just before the bridge, right into parking lot) to hook up with us for lunch. Whomever is or isn't present, we'll be rolling onto the road on time.

For those without a GPS, we will leave trying out a few nice turns early on, find some more very good bends over Mohonk Mountain to the Gilded Otter for lunch. We'll head over an outstanding stretch of State road bends going across Minnewaska Mountain with a tight hairpin turn included (hopefully traffic will be lighter than last year there, it's a crap shoot on that stretch). On the way to Minnewaska Mnt. we’ll do a quick stop for a look at Mohonk that is a view worth checking out. After we cross Minnewaska we’ll take it laid back down a flat straight-ish State highway with some backside views of the mountain ridges.

These are the Shawangunk Mountains at the bottom of the Catskills, and their formation is quite unique with a lot of Granite showing in places. People come from all over the World just to climb the Minnewaska Cliffs. The climbing portion of the cliffs is high on the mountain but the climb is only about 500 ft. high. It's extremely technical and outstanding climbing with a wide variety of climb features (I only did it once, but it was quite an experience).

We'll hit some twisties to the Ashokan, take a few pictures there, and run some sweet lower speed twisties along the reservoir with excellent scenery spots. Then we’ll ride on past another small watershed, and through the town of Woodstock NY to Cooper lake with truly awesome views of the Catskill Mountains across the lake.

We'll run some pleasant twisties from the lake back to SR28 and head through a notch on up into the Catskill mountains on one of the more easygoing routes up into the mountains, get gas at Hunter for the thirsty SV and run some twisties through the Catskills past another small reservoir to SR30.

SR 30 has some pleasant sweepers and scenery so we'll take that on up to the Best Western. It will be late so we won't go in the County road way (we will Saturday though), and we'll hit one short stretch of 4 lane highway just before Cobleskill which won't be used Saturday.

The Motel has a bar and bowling alley. We'll all be pretty hungry by then so whatever they have will taste good. Dawn will be driving our car up on Friday to join us for dinner on both Fril and Sat. night. We'll both see some of you at the bar after supper for awhile to BS a bit. The motel is both large and nice with a heated indoor swimming pool.

If our pre-rides show that the Saturday route I already have in mind holds up as good, just as I have it, we'll eat breakfast beforhand and be rolling out onto the rout itself at 7:45 am Saturday morning. That could change if the pre-ride shows it needs to though.

Saturday will do a full 360 degrees of the Pepacton Reservoir, and that road has been Motorcycle Nirvana, with a tight mix of twisties on one side and a more open mix on the State roadside. Hopefully the winter has been good to the roads up there. STeve, John, and I will be checking it out in a couple of weeks.

[newbornst1300]

Carl, What are you doin up at 3:00AM???
I guess this is what happens when you don't get out for a weekend ride.
We have our meals booked at the hotel and I guess we will be meeting you guys sometime/somewhere on Friday.

[Carl_T]

Yeah Chris I have to get some sleep built up for these rides coming up. You'll likely come in from the other way, so I would guess we'll see you up there at supper Fri. night. I'm itching to try the route out on the pre-ride right now. I think we are FINALLY done with snow down this way and we already got some rain to help clean the roads. We need more rain, but I'm sure we'll get it. It will feel good to ride in the mountains and Reservoirs again.

[SteveST1300]

You seem to be turning into quite a night owl lately. I will remember this at NESTOC no early retirements from the bar this time!!! LOL:03biker: How was the weather this past weekend? We had decent weather down here had a great ride Sunday got as high as 52 deg. Had to turn off the Gerbings! Found some great roads that I had never been on before. All in all a great ride. We did run through one small hail shower. And had 5 beautiful deer run accross the road quite a way ahead of us fortunately.

[Carl_T]

The weather up here pretty much sucked with rain by my house Fri. and sat. but Sunday was just cloudy and cold. It looked mighty black over towards the mountains Saturday so I wouldn't be shocked if they got snow in the upper elevations.

Today! Now this is the day to go check the route, reasonable temp. and sunny as can be! I'm itching to go.

Deer suck on the road, glad it was down the road. Your a lucky batsige to have had a nice Sunday ride. Then again you are in a different growing zone than I am also, you guys get flowers a while before us.

I've been staying up late trying to get something that looks interesting for DackSTOC that won't need an ATV to traverse. Also trying to get a handle on taxes as well as distracting myself with the forum some :o: . I need to have the brains to sleep. Then again I've not been doing any riding either.

[SteveST1300]

If the 7 Apr date gets to looking good I will try and get a half a day off so I can get up to your place at a reasonable hour. Maybe early enough to go out and get a bite to eat. UIf I leave here at 4PM I should get to your house by 8PM.:03biker:

[Carl_T]

ST&Trips can't find Eastampton NJ to save its a**, But from Wrightstown at the Air Force base to my place it says leaving 4pm you'd roll in at a tad after 6:30pm. So, a leave at 4:30 would put you here about the time John would arrive and in time for heading out to get some grub? I think St&Trips might be a tad optimistic, but if you slabbed up it shouldn't take more than 3 hrs. max. I used to get down to 6 flags in about 3 if I remember right. Of course if you took some time off and wound your way up off of the slab, it would be a nice day's riding also.

It would be cool to get to go out for a bite to eat, so I hope that works out. :)

[SteveST1300]

If we are a go for the 7th I will put in for 1/2 a day and get on the road about 4PM. I think I should be at your place by 7PM I am just not sure how traffic will be. I will be leaving from work which is at exit 7A on the Turnpike, I guess about 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour to get to the Parkway and the same again to get to 87. I think I made it to your house in 3-3 1/2 hours last time. That was from my house which is 20 miles south of where I work. Have you seen any long range forcasts for that weekend?:03biker: Which version of City Navigator do you have. Mine brings up Eastampton every time.

[Carl_T]

Yeah, it's supposed to be 62 and sunny up there day after tomorrow :mad: Then cool back down to 50, but I'm not really complaining. They won't forecast that weekend for a couple of days yet. However, it is supposed to be 51 and rainy wed. and Thurs. so that may mean it will clear up by the weekend.

I've got MapSource v7. It shows Eastampton TWP but brings up no location.

I got your place in STreets&Trips tonight, but had to do it by street address and zip. It then gave another township name besides Eastampton. No matter, I have it located now. The software claim is from your house to mine 4pm-6:44pm the way I normally go (95 to 80 to 17 to 87 but you have to take a local access exit on 80 to get to the 17 exit, and that local access is kind of poorly labeled nowadays). I think there is only 3 minutes more added on for using the Parkway (traffic not being considered) so you're good to go. :yes:

Wish I wasn’t so busy at work, I’d take a morning off on Thursday and take advantage of that 62 degrees and sun. Maybe I’ll sneak a 15 mile ride in anyway. :D

[Carl_T]

Hah, they are calling for rain up there this Saturday, Monday, Tuesday, and our Saturday. However yesterday they said rain for our Friday, and they moved that to Saturday, so it could start looking good at any point still. I hope it does rain between now and then, to help clear the roads.

I went out on part of Fridays route today, and the roads are already quite clear in my area compared to before. You can't fully trust them yet, but they are better than they were this time of year last year. The run over 44-55 was pleasantly traffic free today and that section was clear of gravel and a lot of fun, as was a good deal of the route portion I checked.

I was actually overdressed and hot. That's a first in quite awhile.

[SteveST1300]

Well what I saw said scattered showers. Thats Ok by me. I rode in to work again today and like you I was overdressed it got very warm. I am sure it will be just right on the way home tonight though. Well if all goes well I hope to see you and John next Friday night for :eat2: :capwin: :03biker:

[SteveST1300]

OK Carl, John its looking better NICE Friday cloudy Saturday showers Sunday. That works for me how about you guys? I just got my time off request back and approved. Say the word Carl and I will be on my way to your place at 4PM on Friday.:03biker: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Carl_T]

They not only moved it a day (often happens) but they upped the temp to 54 as well. Man if it was today WoooHAaa, It was 77 degrees here. Dawn's Birthday though so the bike riding was done yesterday. We were out and just dropped in for a minute before heading out to cake and candles.

It's looking good, and we have a couple of places in mind were the food is decent. You guys roll in Fri. and we'll all go to somewhere with good food at reasonable prices. We could take our car so youse can have a beer.

We're off to watch her blow out candles and eat cake, catch you on the fip side. :)

[SteveST1300]

Please pass on our best wishes on her birthday!:birthday :hb2: :headbang:

[Carl_T]

I did and it brought a big smile STeve.

MAN! I hope we get half of the good weather we've been having the last few days on the checkout ride. It's been sunny and warm, lots of bikes out.

Dawn is thinking of climbing on the back of the SV to take a short 20 mi. round trip ride to Minnewaska State Park for a walk. I think it's likely too much for her, but didn't say so (especially since the SV has a hockey puck seat and foot pegs up around your ears), we'll see. If she starts being able to take short rides, I'll have to look around for a VERY cheap used something that is passenger friendly.

[Carl_T]

It was too cold for Dawn this morning so we took the car and walked elsewhere.

It really warmed up so I went for a nice ride, checking out part of Fridays route up. The roads down this way are already pretty good with only a few odd spots of sand or gravel, I had a great time riding.

It's supposed to snow up there Tuesday and or Wed., but Saturday is calling for sun with scattered showers and a high of 48F. That's not nearly so nice as this weekend, but it's at least riding weather. It could still turn out all sunny to boot.

MAN! were the bikes out around here! I already had to pass some Harleys potatoing along on the route today, and traffic was molasses thick. It's a good thing we’re going up from here to Cobleskill Friday, all the Sunday drivers were gawking at bare trees in force and will probably be doing the same on the weekend in June.

I hope everybody got out to ride as well.

[SteveST1300]

It was awsome down here this weekend as well high 60's to 70 deg I had to wear the mesh last week! It got up to 75. Its back to reality toady cloudy with heavy storms in the forcast. I am all set for this weekend. How about you John? I hope to see you about 7ish Carl.:03biker:

[Carl_T]

Eddie says Hi guys.

Something to think about, we have 3 different approaches we could take.

With the April rain already starting, Sunday the 9th supposedly being sunny, Easter in there, and my going down to Wa. one weekend in April also, I got wondering about the time left for pre-rides. So I came up with the following (any of which is OK by me).

We could stick to the plan and ride the Southern lower half of the route only, option A.

We could enlarge the plan, ride the lower half Saturday, and the upper half Sunday, option B.

We could decide to do the whole damn route Saturday and you guys head home late Sat night or Sunday, option C.

Stats;
1. Option A. 8am-4pm (or a tad more) 230miles roundtrip from my house.

2. Lower part as in A. above Saturday, plus Option B. upper route check added Sunday, 8am-5pm 247mi. RT from my house.

3. Option C. whole damn thing Saturday, 7:30am-7pm 341mi. RT from my house.

STeve and John, what do you think?

[SteveST1300]

I am game for trying the whole thing if you older ;) guys are up to it:scared2: But I will go with whatever you decide.:03biker:

[Carl_T]

:old1: Watch it there youngster…

I may not have an a*s when finished, I think I'm going to order a Sargent seat, the stock foam with memory foam added is a tad too soft for long term comfort. However, sacrificing my a*s may well be worth it, :mcrider: as it's looking tougher to find other weekend time slots to check the whole thing out. I'd go for it if you guys want to, as you also have a ride home to consider at some point during the weekend.

All three still on the table with one “do it all in one shot” vote in.

What say you John?

[SteveST1300]

If need be I can get a room for the night on Saturday. I would be happy to share it with John if he wanted to!:03biker: If we can get it over with in one weekend we can all be free to enjoy the rest of our weekends without having to worry about scouting rides. (not that I mind the scouting rides) But we have a very hectic summer coming up and a lot of work to do at the house yet to prepare. We have a new fence going in on Thursday. And then I have to start getting the pool ready to open in May. Man all this work stuff shure cuts in to riding time!:03biker:

[Carl_T]

Guys,
No need for a Motel, just bring eating out money, Dawn and I will eat out with you both nights, and you can sleep here Fri. and Sat.

It's a go then! We'll get it all done in one big ride Saturday.

I'll put together the route, and email you guys the MapSource file. You can delete the lower route check file from you GPS.

I'm off to eat. Get you the file as soon as I can, should be a very good ride! :) :yes:

[AgSTreak]

Hey, I'm in for whatever you jokers plan. Did you know you can program u-turns into the Garmin? How cool is that?

Happy birthday and all my love to your wife, Dawn. I'll deliver a hug in person this weekend, just stay out of my waay Carl. :bow1:

[Carl_T]

My 2610 is special order from the factory, it automatically puts in a U turn every 3 miles. Not only that wait until you see the huge U Turn I have planned in just dropping out of Cobleskill! :D

No worries, if I get in the way, just wait 5 minutes and I'll be going back the way I came,