I'm very familiar with 22450 and the what the phrase 'shall stop' means in CA. But it doesn't help with my question about other states and the alleged 3sec 'law'.spiderman302 said:
Protect your Eyes and Ears.
- Thread starter spiderman302
- Start date
27400 CVC was changed in the not too distant past as to get that exemption in subsection d back then, the earplugs had to be custom made. The law was changed to allow over the counter, non custom earplugs. Even with 33 db of attenuation, I don't know of a siren on an emergency vehicle that is not much louder than that. So you're okay wearing earplugs. I'm retired CHP and we received updated yearly training on new CVC sections and I remember the training the year after the change included 27400 CVC so the officers were aware of it.
As for the "3 second rule" as the definition of a complete stop, it is utter nonsense. I've heard of it used as a "rule" of thumb but never in any legal definition or case law.
As for the "3 second rule" as the definition of a complete stop, it is utter nonsense. I've heard of it used as a "rule" of thumb but never in any legal definition or case law.
Neither have I as far as CA is concerned. Still people in other states say they're 'sure it's required' in their state. (Like 'I don't think I was speeding' BS.) I think it's something dads tell their kids 'to keep them safe' but since I don't know it's tough to call BS. So I asked if anybody knows that to be statue law or have a case law reference I'd appreciate a link.jonz said:
At 16 in Illinois I flunked my drivers license test for my bike license the 1st time because I didn't put both feet down at the stop sign. It was her way of busting me because she asked how I got the Bike (Harley Sprint 175) down to the DMV. I told her that I pushed it there. Luckily the engine had cooled off. She knew I was lying to her but couldn't prove it. She showed me the two feet law. Sure enough there was one. Had to wait an hour and then did it all over again and made sure I had two ft down.
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st11ray
2006 ST1300
In 1982 when I was teaching MSF classes, we taught students to stop with only the left foot down.
2017 both feet down.
After 20 years of motorcycling, I finally got a set of custom in-ear plugs made. The kind that go into your canals and need to be removed by grasping a thread of fishing wire. Westone "Defenders" I believe they're called.
I don't know why it took so long. I always ride with plugs (unless I'm listening for a funny sound from the motor).
These were expensive; about $120 through my employer. However, as I think back to all the foam and rubber ear plugs I've used over the years, getting these back then would've lent them to pay for themselves. The comfort is astounding by comparison.
Good advice. I consider ear plugs to be part of the ATGATT.
I don't know why it took so long. I always ride with plugs (unless I'm listening for a funny sound from the motor).
These were expensive; about $120 through my employer. However, as I think back to all the foam and rubber ear plugs I've used over the years, getting these back then would've lent them to pay for themselves. The comfort is astounding by comparison.
Good advice. I consider ear plugs to be part of the ATGATT.
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Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
I worked for a large company (35, 000 employees) who ran a pilot project evaluating custom made ear plugs for employees who work in noisy environments. The conclusion of the health and safety committee (which included a co-chair who worked in one of those environments) is that these were not effective long term. The study concluded that over time people's ear canals are constantly changing shape and as the ear plug does not follow to conform to the changing shape of the ear canal their effectiveness is significantly reduced. As a result they were never deployed and I never got to try them. (No idea what kind of plugs, no idea what research material led to this conclusion.)
I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has used these long term what their opinion on the matter is.
I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has used these long term what their opinion on the matter is.
I wear two hearing aids all the time .... when I'm riding I turn them off and they make excellent ear plugs ....
Gord
Gord
I have three custom made. One silicone solid set, then, the Westone Concert series and the Westone ES60.
All three make me wonder why I waited.
Given a budget and variable protection requirements I'd highly recommend the concert set. With the 15db filters they are almost a flat response. Wonderful for wearing in a louder but not extreme environment. On the bike with the air pressure I'd swap in the solid plugs for 24+dba of reduction and protection.
Worked with and use multiple types. As far as people's ear canal changing, it happens more with turning your head then changing your age. But their are ways to neutralize the molds and materials (body heat sensitive vinyls) that allow them to conform the majority of the time. Been there done that every day. It more sounds like someone was fishing for a reason to drop the project.
My lowest grade (ie cheapest) plugs allow direct sound transmission when I turn my head to the far sides or I flex my jaw, but 99.6% of the time they work great and have for a few years, but I doubt your management is interested in the details. Sorry!
But if you are in such an environment I highly recommend you spend some flex money or your own and invest in your long term hearing. It's worth it. The cheapies can before had for under $100.
OK, I'll ask the question...
I just use the disposable foam ones that have an NRR of 32. They seem to work very well for me... lots of noise reduction but I can still hear my Sena, horns, sirens, etc.
What makes the custom ones worth $100+?
I just use the disposable foam ones that have an NRR of 32. They seem to work very well for me... lots of noise reduction but I can still hear my Sena, horns, sirens, etc.
What makes the custom ones worth $100+?
After the second day of all day use my ears were sore with the foam disposables for me. I had already cut them shorter to get them to fit without pushing my earlobes out, so now I will try cutting the fat end off instead and see if that reduces the ache that develops eventually for me with long hours of use. When fitted properly they made a great difference in the road noise and wind noise. I can hear the intercom still with only a small increase in volume.
I have had my hearing tested and specifically asked is there was any damage from my years of riding without any earplugs. The technician said there was none, so I guess I am lucky. On my last long ride I had to stop wearing them because it just hurt too much by the end of the day.
I have had my hearing tested and specifically asked is there was any damage from my years of riding without any earplugs. The technician said there was none, so I guess I am lucky. On my last long ride I had to stop wearing them because it just hurt too much by the end of the day.
Jock I was like you and found them uncomfortable and then I rode with Jeff a few times and watched him insert them in his ear and it works well for me as well. You need to roll the foam in between thumb and index finger till it becomes small enough to insert deep into the ear canal, no more discomfort and they work better to boot.
Gerhard
Gerhard
larryg
Site Supporter
I need large earplugs too, and these work very well - once you learn the right way to seat them in per the instructions:
https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/hearos-ear-plugs---xtreme-protection-series/ID=prod6143128-product#!
Pick them up at your local Walgreens, or Amazon.....
its been years since I looked around, but there are many different sizes and styles available in foam earplugs. Here's one example:
http://www.howardleight.com/ear-protection/earplugs
When I rode everyday I went through them fairly quickly so I'd buy a box of 200 pairs (or split a box with someone else). Checked Amazon for current pricing and the 200 pair boxes go for roughly $18 to $25.
http://www.howardleight.com/ear-protection/earplugs
When I rode everyday I went through them fairly quickly so I'd buy a box of 200 pairs (or split a box with someone else). Checked Amazon for current pricing and the 200 pair boxes go for roughly $18 to $25.
larryg
Site Supporter
+1 - this is the secret to successfully using foam earplugs. Absolutely !
larryg
Site Supporter
I agree, definitely prefer polarized. I wear polarized clip-ons over my glasses with no trouble looking through my visor, and since I never look through the windshield, no problem there.
The one major issue for me is - they mostly make my GPS un-viewable. For that reason alone, I'm looking for non-polarized clip-ons. They are hard to find !
This 'secret' is well-known for years to those of us who've used earbuds with foam tips. It's the reason we get good bass response without resorting to brands that give poor balance by emphasizing boomy bass that the kids seem to require.
But they still share the same fitment problem. What works for one person doesn't work for another. None of the silicone or variants work for me. The only ones that work well for both ears are memory foam tips made/sold by Shure.
I still haven't found foam plugs that fit one ear properly. Of course if I buried it in the ear canal it might work but then I'd need a lanyard to retrieve it and much prefer to go cordless. Shure should make earplugs.
I have been using sunglasses that I get at Harbor Freight (#66822). They are smoked (not polarized) and impact resistant (won't shatter), and only cost $1.79 a pair. I like that because when they start to get scratched up, or I lose them, I just pick up another couple.
I also use a strip of tape on my face shield as a sun block. I have used black electric tape, but I prefer masking tape as it is easier to clean up. The masking tape does not block 100% of the sun, but it still gives you that shadow to look through when the sun in directly in your eyes and you have to squint even with sun glasses. Again, something you can pick up almost anywhere cheap.
I have struggled with hearing protection. I have tried various foam ear plugs, and custom molded ear plugs (from Walmart), but all of them give me a headache after a short time.
I also use a strip of tape on my face shield as a sun block. I have used black electric tape, but I prefer masking tape as it is easier to clean up. The masking tape does not block 100% of the sun, but it still gives you that shadow to look through when the sun in directly in your eyes and you have to squint even with sun glasses. Again, something you can pick up almost anywhere cheap.
I have struggled with hearing protection. I have tried various foam ear plugs, and custom molded ear plugs (from Walmart), but all of them give me a headache after a short time.