ST1300 Turns over but does not start

[Rolando]

Please, help.

ST1300 - Engine turns over vigorously with starter button but engine does not start.
Any pointers would be very much appreciated.
Symptoms:
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Engine turns over with the starter motor but does not start.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Fuel indicator (all bars) flash.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Two horizontal lines bellow also flash.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Headlight is off. (Usually it is permanently on. It does not have an on/off switch for low beam.)
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Windshield will not go up or down either.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Turn signals are also dead.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Can?t seem to hear the fuel pump. However (thankfully) it?s not very loud on this bike, like on my previous BMW K1100LT. Did put my ear against the round cover with brown and green wires going into it under the driver?s seat. Heard nothing there when turning the swith on.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Two relay clicks are heard on turning the ignition key. One seems to be at the starter.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]RED BUTTON ? Did check that, first of all.
Have done
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Searched in the forum for likely posts and ideas without much success.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Checked and carefully cleaned all fuses:
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]Fuses on both left hand fuse boxes each removed and cleaned carefully and checked before replacing
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]65amp fuse above battery on + terminal checked
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]30amp fuse on starter relay checked and cleaned
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Carefully cleaned the four pin connector which is next to the 30amp fuse at starter relay.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]I have a Scorpio alarm installed
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]Checked fuses on alarm cables
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]Disarmed alarm
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]Disconnected alarm as indicated in the manual, removing main control unit cables, to eliminate it completely from the circuit and thus remove it as a factor (I think).
My bike is an ST1300 year 2003 with ABS (grey) serial number JH2SC51543M100310 engine SC51E2103056.
Most recent actions I was considering might have contributed to the problem:
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Filled the gas tank. Thought maybe the gas pump nozzle could have disconnected something inside the gas tank, but after looking in with a hand lamp (rather than a lit match) there weren?t any cables to be seen in there. My previous BMW K1100LT had the gas pump in there.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Washed the bike this morning. However, it started fine after having washed it and it was quite warm all day. Drove several places. The bike failed when I was about to leave a parking lot way down town and after hours I had to leave it there for the night, hoping I can get it fixed tomorrow. Else it will be an expensive thing to get it home.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Changed the battery a week ago: I checked all cables around the battery today. Actually disconnected it and looked everywhere for some cable or connector not in its? correct place but could find nothing. The engine turns over quite vigorously though.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Other forum entries spoke of a front cowl ?tip over? sensor, but I could not find it. Did look carefully under the front and around the controls.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Checked the side stand switch and it seems fine. Maybe I should disconnect it or clean it.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]I thought of dismantling the kill switch but haven?t yet.
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Another forum entry spoke of a fuel sender unit, but I wouldn?t know where to find it.
I?m hoping someone might suggest something to look for, considering the symptoms indicated above.
Any pointers suggesting where to look or what circuits to check would be welcome.
Considering the fuses all seem OK but even so the headlight, usually permanently on is currently off and there does not seem to be power at the fuel pump, nor at the turn signals or windshield, and the gas indicator flashes, where should I look? The fuel indicator flashing means I must do what?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
Rolando Montano
Mexico City
:bow1:

 

[SoloTotoCoyote]

Looking at the service manual........

1) Check spark plugs & air cleaner
See if the spark plugs are clean, the correct ones, and have the proper gap

2) If everything looks good, see if you are actually getting spark at the spark plug


The headlight being off and the windshield not working have me wondering though........both should work with just the key in the "on" position. The headlight will turn off while cranking which is normal but it should come right back on after you release the starter button.

 

[wjbertrand]

+1 on checking the plugs. On a lot of engines once these get wet and subsequently sooty, you'll never get her started. Happened to me on a car one time, I went through the same list you did, finally shrugged and installed new plugs for lack of any more ideas than anything else, a desperation move. Damned if the thing didn't start right up. I had no problems after that episode.

 

[Mark]

Hi Rolando,

You said you filled the tank... was it at a station you trust? One of our members filled with bad gas and when it hit the engine just stopped.
However this would not effect the electrical system...

Did the 3 recalls get done on your bike?
One of them was a harness short... but, I would expect you to have blown a fuse.

Does the FI light come on when you turn the key on and then go out?
Mark

 

[Blrfl]

?Engine turns over with the starter motor but does not start.
?Fuel indicator (all bars) flash.
?Two horizontal lines bellow also flash.
?Headlight is off. (Usually it is permanently on. It does not have an on/off switch for low beam.)
?Windshield will not go up or down either.
?Turn signals are also dead.

Great post, Rolando. There's a plethora of clues in there. I don't think this is a fuel or ignition problem. Based on the combination of symptoms, It sounds to me like a couple of parts of the bike are not getting power. The blinking fuel gauge indicates that the dash isn't getting a reading from the fuel sender in the upper tank, which is unusual if the tank hasn't been removed.

First, check for the presence of 12V at all of the fuses in the fuse panels with the ignition on.

If all that comes up good, check the function of the following and let us know what works and what doesn't:

• Neutral Indicator
• Horn
• Tail and Brake Lights
• Hazard Lights
• Clock - Did it lose the time while the ignition was off?

You might also want to pull the ignition switch connector and check that the switch is functioning properly. There are two sets of wires that should show continuity in the "on" position: the Red and Red/Black pair and the Red, Red/White and Blue.

Let us know how all that goes. I suspect that once we know what works and what doesn't, it will just be a matter of tracing it all out on the wiring diagram and finding what the failed bits have in common.

Also, tell us about how you washed the bike. Did you cover any of the parts up? How good of a soak did you give the areas where water could leak in and get into the wiring harness?

--Mark

 

[Pete in PA]

These tiny diameter spark plugs DO foul very easily. Try a new set. There are other problems going on though what with the windshield, headlight, fuel gauge, turn signals, etc. acting up. Unless its a wire harness problem they are not related.

Could be the ignition switch also.

 

[Rolando]

Many many thanks to all.

Especially Mark's response (blrfl) looks to me like a brilliant routine to follow. Will go down to where the bike is parked now and do exactly as you indicate and report back.

Since there is the problem with lack of power to all the indicated places, I'd imagine the problem of spark plugs or fuel is not probable. However, I will check spark at the plug and spark plug condition. Fuel is from the very same gas station I allways use and there is plenty of it.

Many thanks. Will get to work with a printout of your reccomended actions.

Rolando.
:bow1:

 

[Mcreviver]

I'm looking at my manual. For the symptoms you describe concerning the fuel bars and dashed lines under also blinking continuously the manual suggests: Open or short circuit at the fuel level sensor circuit. Faulty fuel level sensor. Short circuit at the fuel reserve sensor circuit. Faulty fuel reserve sensor. Or a Faulty combination meter. Since you indicated something might have happened inside your fuel tank when you filled it last, that might be the place to suspect. If it cranks okay, there is nothing wrong with the battery or connections there. The fuel pump must shut off unless it gets a good signal from the quantity indicator systems or else it would run dry and fail. Sigh, this is why I'll be satisfied with an 1100.

 

[Mcreviver]

To test the fuel level sensor, unplug the two pin plug that (I'm guessing) comes out from under your upper fuel tank. Check the resistance between the two pins. You should have 1 to 6 ohms at full and 213 to 219 ohms at empty. To limp home, I would short the two pins on the other matching plug. You should see a full tank indication. If the bike starts, replace the level sensor assembly-or fix what you broke.

 

[Mcreviver]

Keep in mind there was an earlier thread about a similar problem and it was finally traced to a wiring harness problem under the fuel tank.

 

[Byron]

"?Fuel indicator (all bars) flash.
?Two horizontal lines bellow also flash.
?Headlight is off. (Usually it is permanently on. It does not have an on/off switch for low beam.)
?Windshield will not go up or down either.
?Turn signals are also dead.
?Can?t seem to hear the fuel pump."

I wish I had my manual handy but power is not getting where it needs to for some reason, blown fuse(s) or harness short is my guess.

 

[Rolando]

Many thanks. This I was looking for. Must pay attention to the fault signal specifically, but didn't have a clue what it meant. Will check this first. Thanks again. Rolando.

I'm looking at my manual. For the symptoms you describe concerning the fuel bars and dashed lines under also blinking continuously the manual suggests: Open or short circuit at the fuel level sensor circuit. Faulty fuel level sensor. Short circuit at the fuel reserve sensor circuit. Faulty fuel reserve sensor. Or a Faulty combination meter. Since you indicated something might have happened inside your fuel tank when you filled it last, that might be the place to suspect. If it cranks okay, there is nothing wrong with the battery or connections there. The fuel pump must shut off unless it gets a good signal from the quantity indicator systems or else it would run dry and fail. Sigh, this is why I'll be satisfied with an 1100.

 

[Pete in PA]

On this whole subject, how many of you wait for the FI light to go off before you hit the starter button?

Per the owners manual you're supposed to. Not coincidentally that is also when the fuel pump stops priming. It can be heard very easily unless it's really noisy where you are.

I do this with my cars also even though it's not in the owners manual.

Check if rodents chewed through any wires.

 

[Rolando]

[FONT=&quot]Report back – Saturday 2009/03/21
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Many many thanks. Much appreciated help. Hope the detailed report back is of future use to others and maybe of interest to those following. Hope you're having a grand weekend. I'm having fun trying to figure this out. Thanks again to all.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yesterday I tried a lot of what was reccomended but ended up having to pay for the bike to be towed back home. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here are some further details, details of readings suggested and an action plan for me for today at bottom:[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Unplugged the two pin plug from under the upper fuel tank. Checked resistance but decided I had to study the use of the multimeter because I got something like 40 and am unsure. Shorted the two pins as sugested, but the fuel indicator error remained, fuel pump did not activate and bike did not start.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Removed altogether the alarm mecanism which had a cutoff at the fuel pump ground (green) cable. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Connected it direct. Still no power at fuel pump.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Momentarily grounded the green cable at the fuel pump (ground) to the frame and switched the ignition ON. Error at the fuel indicator bars and two hiphens at the mile counter dissappeared, went solid, but the fuel pump did not start and I disconnected because nothing else changed and I was afraid of shorting something.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Excellent help from Maura indicated that the upper tank does not have any wiring that could be harmed by the gas pump nozzle, so I'm forgeting that.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Checked for presence of 12V at fuses. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Table bellow.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Checked all indicator lights and buttons. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Table bellow.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Did not dismantle kill switch because when testing buttons I found in effect it cancels out the starter button and starter motor. This means it works.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]The bike was washed as always with a bucket of water with a small amount of mild sweater soap which my father, a chemist, said was very good quality soap which is fast rinsed and a different type detergent. This was using a large soft brush and then a second bucket of plain water and same brush to rinse. Quick procedure. Usual procedure. The bike then started fine and I used it all day. Water evaporates fast with the heat here, especially when left standing in the parking lot.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]All indicators in the instrument panel electronic screen where the fuel indicator is are now rather dim. When key is turned partially it can light up bright but then goes off. This prompts me to put the main switch as my primary objective next as a likely culprit.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Recharged battery with battery tender all night. Fully charged now.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Was told by the tow truck man that many times the computer in cars cuts off the fuel pump or spark at plugs first, as a safeguard, when something is wrong. Found this interesting.
  [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Fuses[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Bank[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Function[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Fuse color[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Amps[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Voltage measured[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Rear – left side[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ABS FR[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Green[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]30[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]11.62V[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ABS RR[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Green[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]30[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]11.62V[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]H LIGHT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Red[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]FI COIL PUMP[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yellow[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]20[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]BATTERY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Red[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]0.5V[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]SCREEN[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yellow[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]20[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Front – left side[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]HORN/PASS/STOP[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blue[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]15[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]FAN[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Green[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]30[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ABS MAIN[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Red[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]11.40V[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]POSITION METER LIGHT TAIL[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Red[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]START ENG STOP[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Red[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]11V[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]HI LIGHT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Red[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Lateral box to front bank – left side[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blue[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]15[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]11V[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Switches / Mechanisms – Response – Operation[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Switch / Mechanism / Indicator light[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Response[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Note[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Fuel indicator[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All bars flash. Two hyphens also flash at centre of two first digits of Mile/Km indicator.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]FI light[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Never lights. Not when key is turned to the on position nor when starter is pressed nor at any time.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Starter button[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Normal response: Starter engine turns engine briskly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kill switch[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Starter dead when in X position (kill)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It works.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Horn[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No response[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Turn signal[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No response[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hazard lights button[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No response[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Windshield up/down button[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No response[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Clock reading[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]OK[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Resets when battery is disconnected.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Oil light[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ON[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Neutral indicator[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]OK[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Green save when gear is changed to other than neutral.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ABS light[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]OFF[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blue HI lights indicator[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Does not light with high beam button in the HI beam position[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lights do not light at any time.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Low beam[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Never light.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Action plan for today, as per your recommendations:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pull the ignition switch connector and check that it is functioning. There are two sets of wires that should show continuity in the "on" position. (Have to find the diagram to help on this.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Red and Red/Black pair[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Red and Red/White/Blue.[/FONT]
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For fuel indicator bars and dashed lines under also blinking continuously the manual suggests. (Have to find the diagrams to identify where each of these is.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Open or short circuit at the fuel level sensor circuit[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Faulty fuel level sensor[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Short circuit at the fuel reserve sensor circuit[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Faulty fuel reserve sensor[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Faulty combination meter[/FONT]
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]UB40 in side stand switch and clutch switch[/FONT]
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Spark at plug. (Many suggest it. Must do it and report back.)[/FONT]


Thanks again to all. :bow1:

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[CHIPS]

I HAD THAT PROBLEM RECENTLY, IT WAS TRACED TO A BANK OF 5 EARTHS UNDER THE PETROL TANK.MY LOCAL BIKE SHOP PUT EXTRA EARTH POINTS ON BIKE.

 

[wjbertrand]

I've heard of some weird problems caused be loose harness plugs. Have you checked the harnesses connected to the ECM and the back of the instument panel?
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Rolando]

Clearly there is agreement on the earth problem possibility under the tank. I'm going into the switch (key) today first. Will look at the harness there and instrument pannel connections there. If that fails, then under the tank.

Many thanks again to all.

I've heard of some weird problems caused be loose harness plugs. Have you checked the harnesses connected to the ECM and the back of the instument panel?
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[roadriderg]

Clearly there is agreement on the earth problem possibility under the tank. I'm going into the switch (key) today first. Will look at the harness there and instrument pannel connections there. If that fails, then under the tank.

Many thanks again to all.

Did your bike have the ground cap recall done? This is where the grounds fail at the cap under the tank.

Gary

 

[shawnshk]

i see in your picture you have a Topbox on your st1100 where did you get it I am trying to find one for my bike but the one's i found look cheap

 

[Blrfl]

If you're measuring the 12V on the fuses against battery ground, that would rule out a grounding problem.

It's almost 1:00 a.m., and I'm getting bleary, so I'll give it all a look-see in the morning and see what I can figure out.

--Mark