To those of you with TPMS....

Diesel Dave

HOPS!
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
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133
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Queensland, Australia
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04 Candy ST1300
Can you guys let me know what the pressure difference between your tires is cold and hot pls?

You will need to state your tire brand as well to see if there is any correlating data.

Eg.

ST1300
Rear 42 cold - 49 hot - PR2
Front 42 cold - 51 hot - PR2

Cheers, Diesel Dave
 

TinyL

Wingin It
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Running a Doran on the wing now, but have had one on all my bikes and your temps seem in the normal range...usually 10 to 15 percent increase over cold pressure is normal. Load and ambient air temps will make a big difference, as well as cold tire PSI. I don't think brand is going to come into play much. If you load up the bike for a trip you will see higher temps, especially in the rear tire. Last year while riding in the furnace called Kansas, on a fully loaded ST1300 with a cold PSI of 42 my pressure in the rear tire went up to nearly 57 PSI...Increased PSI to 45 cold the next day and only went up to 50 PSI...Higher starting cold pressures will mean lower tire pressures just because of the change in friction and contact patch size. These higher pressures are totally normal, and your tires can handle it. Most people just don't realize that this happens in all tires, but some TPMS systems measure temp as well and take it into consideration and display only corrected tire pressure...hope this helped a little
 
Joined
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wonder if the tar companies state the obvious?

My data has always suggested 10% increase, cold to hot. Increase cold as needed to make it happen. DO NOT inflate past stated max. If, at stated max cold, yur hot pressure goes higher than 10%, yur tar is not up to the job.

Hard numbers from Dunlop/Bridgestone/Michelin/Metzler/Avon/Continental would be great.

It could well be our STs are too heavy for the OEM tars, tho hard to believe Honda would do such.
 

Firstpeke

NT1100D
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This is ALWAYS a very immotive subject...... of course one should NEVER adjust pressures at anything other than ambient temperature.

Rises in temperature are normal, some more than others and the manufacturers will NEVER tell you anything about it as there are far too many variables involved.
Ambient temperature at start of day, middle of day, end of day, tyre temp at start etc.... load on bike, riding style - (which involves all aspects - braking acceleration - cruising speed), road surface composition, road surface temperature......

So you see, it is not an easy thing to look at as everyone is different as are the bikes, the tyres and the conditions of use.....

The air in the tyre is your PRIMARY suspension, it is what carries the load first and foremost...... if you under inflate it is the same thing as overloading, but dynamically your tyre may experience short term overloading under braking, acceleration and cornering.

Tyre companies have to produce a product that is effectively, all things to all riders.... I don't think they do too badly.

Where it goes wrong is when people try to second guess the tyre design and test engineers work and put more or less air in than is recommended or stated as a maximum for the casing. This can sometimes have a detrimental effect on the tyre performance and life, sometimes people get lucky, nothing more, nothing less.

I only had six years of working for a major tyre manufacturer, I learned an awful lot, but was still learning when I left and still am.

There you go, discuss......
 
Joined
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Thanks, Les. I love having professional advice. This site serves many purposes, edjumacation being an important one.

Gotta say, I'm very happy with the performance of my London Taxi Tar so far. Holds pressure (currently running 42 with max recommended of 55). Did have to reinflate the other day at Mark Kunath's. On purpose tho, cause we had to remove the tar to get the wheel chucked into his Bridgeport mill. :D

So, the rated load for that tar is ~1500 lbs. I haven't checked the pressure at temp. Guess I'll do that today and poST back.

Thanks again, Les.
 
Joined
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2016 Versys 1000
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Agree Les, there are many factors..... on my slightly lighter FJR, front tire (Metz Z8), goes from 42 to 46 when hot, rear Michelin Exalto goes from 30 to 34, maybe another PSI higher on a real hot day.
 
Joined
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One question for Les is this. So here in the US we are always told don't look at the max tire pressure on the sidewall. They tell us to look at the car frame in the drivers door area for a data plate that tells us what pressure to run. I know some vehicles (our Audi for instance) has this data plate in the gas door and goes into more detail such as what pressure to run when loading the car for a trip with 4 people and baggage vs what pressure to run when solo occupant commuting.

So you spoke from the point of view of the tire engineers. Since we are directed not to listen to them but the auto engineers, what are your thoughts about that? What do they recommend in Europe? Tire or vehicle engineer's recommendations?
 

Firstpeke

NT1100D
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When a vehicle is "homologated" or "type approved" or whatever they want to call it nowadays, the vehicle manufacturer tests the vehicle over a range of pressures and will use the best pressures for a compromise of comfort and handling, tyre life generally does not feature. These pressure ranges are offered up by the tyre manufacturer based on the vehicle axle weights, driver only, part loaded and fully loaded.....

Motorcycle tyres are running much closer to the casings weight tolerances than car tyres, again, generally speaking.

A classic example over here of a WIDE range of tyre pressures was those recommended for the Ford Granada Scorpio, the driver only pressures were something like 28F 36R (these are not accurate just a guess from memory) but the loaded/high speed pressure was 38F 46R.......

If you set the higher pressures then forgot to lower them the car handled like a breeze block on castors in the wet...... and the tyres wore out real quick.

If you did not set the higher pressures for the high speed and load, the car was positively dangerous and risked catastrophic tyre failure at high speed, the tyre pressures would go high as the temperature built up to very, very high levels.....

Does this mean we should put more air in our tyres when we load our bikes right up?

No, what we should do is stay within the tyres rated load and ride at a more "respectable" pace.

We should listen to what the tyre engineers VIA the vehicle manufacturers plate.

OF course, there are occasions when as a tyre company technical sales representative I would recommend a higher pressure for a vehilce, but it had to be based on vehicle axle weights, vehicle loading and duty cycle (how long the vehicle ran loaded).
Over time and with experience of a very large number of vehicle inspections and pressure recommendations, one was able to make "educated" guesses at the approximate recommendation, subject to monitoring tyre performance over days, weeks or even months.

I did this on a daily basis for a great many customer fleets and never saw anything but good results when fine tuning took place. This was necessary as every vehicle is different, even two vehicles of the same size, power and loading with the same driver on a regular or even permanent basis.
I had some smaller van fleets where we achieved over 100,000 miles on rear tyres.
I had a leased people mover with Michelin fitted which had over 97,000 miles on the rear tyres, with plenty of tread remaining and had regularly achieved over 25,000 miles on the driven front wheels.... conversley another people mover I had achieved around 23,000 maximum on the fronts but only 60,000 on the rears.... it had Continental tyres fitted... which had nowhere near the grip levels of the Michelin and did not inspire confidence at all, no matter what you did with the pressures....

Bike wise, I run Avon these days, mainly because I can't afford the UK price for Michelin, or Bridgestone, when compared to Avon. I run a minimum of 36 lbs/psi in the front, but normally run 38 lbs/psi..... in the rear I run 42 lbs/psi but will not panic if I am only riding locally and the tyre is at 38 lbs/psi... if I am going further afield and intend to run highway speeds, then the rear is set to 42.

Maximum pressures for casings moulded into sidewalls are there for a reason, the casing, like your bike, has design limits.

Would you ride your bike to maximum revs in every gear and at maximum speed ALL day?
No, that demonstrates no mechanical sympathy or sense...... then why do people do it with tyres when they are all that separates them from the tarmac and potential disaster?


Discuss.
 
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